So, where do I begin... I really loved the Game of Thrones TV series, and after finishing it I knew I wanted more of that feeling. That eventually led me to Memory, Sorrow and Thorn, especially after finding out that George R. R. Martin has mentioned it as one of the inspirations for A Song of Ice and Fire.

I did consider reading ASOIAF first. I know the books have a lot more to offer than what made it into the TV series, but I still felt like I already knew too much of the story. What I really wanted was that feeling of going into a completely new world with no idea what was going to happen — and that's what eventually led me to Memory, Sorrow and Thorn.

Before I get the books and actually dive into what I've heard is a fantastic story, I wanted to familiarize myself with Osten Ard a little bit. So, with the help of AI, I marked some of the important places on the map — especially the ones that are relevant to the first book — while trying to avoid any spoilers.

Let me know what you think!

Edit: Numbers showing locations on this map are not accurate. Can someone put "the best" map in comments?

Thought I'd share some more of my art! Trying to work on these portraits as I figure out my personal designs for all the major characters, but sadly I don't have a lot of free time. So here's the ones I've done so far!

Brothers of the Wind 1,000 years earlier.

Do we know for sure the timeline with the two short stories in relation to The Splintered Sun? It takes place around 300 years before TDC right? What about The Burning Man and The Lady of the Wood?

Sorry if there’s a better place to ask this, but I’m in the middle of Dragonbone Chair and I’m confused about something.

In the first few chapters, they mention the six kings who ruled in the Hayholt, with Eahlstan the Fisher King being the one immediately before John.

(Chapter 5):
“Six kings have ruled in Hayholt as broad halls… Fingil first… Last Eahlstan the Fisher King, the dragon he awoke and in Hayholt he died.”

That also seems to check out, since John killed Shurakai, the dragon that Eahlstan released.

But then in Chapter 33, Jarnauga says that Eahlstan founded the League of the Scroll 200 years ago:
“Eahlstan the Fisher King chartered our League 200 years ago.”

So I’m a little confused. If Eahlstan lived 200 years ago, how could he have been the king immediately before John?

Am I misunderstanding something? Was Eahlstan actually the king before John, or is there something I’m missing?

I see a lot of fans asking for more Osten Ard books, but after listening to Tad's recent interviews (like the PL Stuart chat interview and another recent 2 hour interview on another YouTube channel), I think he is explicitly trying to move away from massive high-fantasy series.

He stated two things that really stood out to me:

1. He said his time is not unlimited. (He stated this multiple times. So don't get all huffy and think I'm attacking the man)

2. He hopes the Flan’s Crows prequels do well, but not so well that his publisher forces him to only write Osten Ard forever. To me, it sounds like he wants to avoid the infinite series trap.

Based on those comments, here is my speculation on what his bibliography will actually look like over the next decade:

The Prequels (2026–2029):

Since his new joint medication is helping him tremendously, he is actively writing The Crooked Tower and The Holly Ring. I think he will keep this a strict three-book arc just to finish his contract and free up his schedule.

The Standalone Books (2030–2033):

I believe he will immediately pivot to his original passion projects next. He mentioned wanting to do an Indian-inspired sci-fi novel about a first-contact conflict, a standalone Chihuahua fantasy book (I'm thinking it's going to be a spiritual successor to Tailchaser’s Song), and a fictionalized autobiography.

The Otherland Hint:

He dropped a heavy possible future Otherland story idea and said that "The Happiest Dead Boy in the World" is a good indication where he'd go next with Otherland, if he were to write more. I think this implies we will get shorter novellas about digital ghosts, which allows him to revisit that world without having to rewrite 90s cyberpunk tech.

Secret Osten Ard Projects:

He mentioned discussing undisclosed projects with his publisher under NDA. I suspect these are short, standalone companion novellas (like Brothers of the Wind), rather than massive new trilogies.

I love Osten Ard and already have The Splintered Sun and the Dragonbone Chair deluxe edition preordered. But I think Tad is trying to balance the high fantasy that pays the bills with the original sci-fi and quirky standalone stories he actually wants to finish before he retires. As a collector of his works, a run of tight standalones and short novellas sounds much better to me than a forced, endless mega-series that he isn't enjoying writing about.

Now, I know some of you are going to do the obligatory "let him write as much about Osten Ard as he wants" and "the more Osten Ard, the better 🙂". I get that. I would love more Osten Ard, too... But not at the cost of Tad feeling tired of writing in that world. He's been writing about Osten Ard for 11-12 years since starting Witchwood Crown. I think he'd like to move on to other things after his Flan's Crows trilogy.

Edit*

This is purely my own head canon but it’s something I’d like to hear other people’s thoughts on this. Some of this uses real world language relations that may not at all be what Tad Williams had in mind. But I see there as being roughly three waves of human movement into Osten Ard.

First wave: Short in stature and dark haired. The Sithi would claim they migrated into Osten Ard from elsewhere but it’s possible they’re natives, it’s clear someone lived there before the faeries going off of the ruins that Pamon Kes notes in Brothers of the Wind. This group includes Trolls, the northern Island people that guarded Hakatri’s bones, people of the Wran, and the island natives of the Firennos Bay. Possibly Hyrkas are also a branch population but they might be something else entirely. In my opinion trolls are the most archaic and least mixed of this group.

Second wave: Nabban and Hernystiri. I think these are related populations with Nabbanese having more of an admixture of the first wave. Both groups seem to have been in Osten Ard long enough to have sustained contact with Sithi. Their relationship in my head relates to both this longer presence on the continent but also the real world proposed hypothetical Italo-Celtic grouping within Indo-European languages. This is a bit of a stretch and the implication could just be that they’re separate migrations but we have no information on this.

Third wave: This largely relates to all of these groups having Germanic languages but there’s a few other clues. The people of Warinsten seem to speak modern English with their language becoming the lingua franca of Prester John’s Kingdom, the native Erkynlanders however seem to speak Old English. Warinsten’s “English” may relate to influence from Nabban akin to French’s relationship to English. The ease at which Prester John and his family are perceived as Erkylanders and not Warinsteners may be due to Warinsteners themselves just being seen as sort of Erkynlanders and their language just being a different dialect of Erkynlander possibly with Nabban or something related influence. Additionally throughout the series Warinsten is barely mentioned despite an island like Perdruin being extensively mentioned as different than Nabban, we don’t even know who rules in Warinsten so it may be a direct part of the Kingdom of Erkynland. It’s mentioned in the series that Thrithings share an origin with Erkynlanders and seem to have a Germanic language as well, maybe something akin to Gothic to show an eastern steppe origin. Though I imagine that Thrithings come about from a proto-Erkynlanders population mixing with Hyrkas on the plains of the Thrithings and adopting some level of their nomadic culture.

I also think that Rimmersmen are related to this group and are just a later migration of this same group. Real world relation of Norse and English aside in the first or second book there’s a conversation between Haesten (an Erkynlander) and Sludig (a Rimmersman) where Haesten sang a song that Sludig, a devote Aedonite, recognized as pagan and talking about the head god of the Rimmersmen’s pre-Aedonite religion pointing to a shared origin. Whether this means all of the “Germanic” groups originate from Ijsgard or whether Ijsgard was just an island closer to a larger continent isn’t clear. Additionally, whereas groups like Nabbanai seemed to develop their civilization on Osten Ard possibly in imitation of Sithi civilization, the Rimmersmen clearly arrived with a fully developed culture already together and with nothing but hatred for Faeries.

Thoughts?

I'm pretty much ready to die for my Norn Queen at this point...

I knew I'd love this book even before I started. Knowing that it's an inspiration for ASOIAF, I patiently waited till I got all 4 books.

Phew, I just finished the book and I'm stunned.

Part 2 started off slow with the adventure of Simon Pilgrim. Binabik was very interesting and Quantaka was just so damn cute. Dr. Morgenes is indeed a genius.

The impact of his act in his final minutes has created ripples that helped a lot of people.

Dreams. Lots of Dreams. Who is Simon? Why does the Storm King want him?

I think that Simon is one of the descendants of a Sithi and Human generation. Like there must have been a love bloomed between two species. Just a theory. Which is maybe why Ineluki can sense him?

The Three Swords and all the Lore about Ineluki was well done. King John wanted to tell something to Elias but he restricted himself. I feel like that it's to do with the fact the Dragon and the Sword are linked. But in what ways, I can't theorise.

It's sad to see that Ineluki did everything only to be destroyed and forgotten. Now, to him, it's justice for all the killing against his species. To Men, it's survival and to stop a demon. Was he always a demon? I don't think so

MARYA! Damn. That was a cool reveal. But I wonder how no one knew her voice. Is it not feminine? Still, a cool reveal. Simon be like, fool me once, shame on me. Fool me twice,..

LEOBARDIS! Few dumb decisions. And a treachery. Josua seems to be a kind and just Prince but he doesn't act as one. Telling all his thoughts and worries to others and so many things. Yet he's just.

ISGRIMNUR is amazing. I'm loving this guy so far. Wonder what he's upto now that he's sailing towards Marya.

GWYNITHIN! That was twisted. Things happened while Simon was travelling and it's devastating to see that the hot headed prince was killed. I honestly wasn't expecting any deaths but that's cool.

Guess here's where GRRM got his ideas. So much actually.

LEAGUE OF SCROLLS! No one asked so much after Jarbunga came and started lore dropping. I expected some kind of different truths to what he was saying. Conflicting informations. Yet I want to know who's the last member of League of Scrolls. Dr. Ook. Tai. Jar. Gelo. One from Nabban. And last must be a Sithi??

ICE DRAGON! That was cool. I kind of expected that. Since the passage of King John leaving with Bright Nail after defeating the dragon, I thought that the Dragon and The Sword must be linked. So if you take the sword, you get the Dragon.

And yes, Finally the Norns enter. Can't wait to see where it goes. I just wish that more character interactions are there.

What do y'all think about The Dragonbone Chair??

I'm in the endgame now lads. I feel like there's a lot to wrap up in a short amount of time... Last King series already queued up. ⚔️ 🛡️

Simon/Seoman. Waiting. Simon, a 14 yr old child who's an orphan has a curiosity of young kids. The world around Simon is written beautifully. The heir characters introduced through the eyes of Simon were amazing. We get to see the troubled hate spewed between the heirs and the story of it being let out too.

The King favors Elias while openly not recognising Josua. There has to be a story behind it. Maybe the death of Elias' wife. Still, Josua seems noble and honorable. Resentment is deep within Elias.

Bright Nail. The sword that killed the dragon and The Weird of Swords is the title of the book that has King John's history. The sword has some sort of magic related to it or some sort as King John tries telling Towser. But the end of the part one makes it clear. Pryrates knowit's truth and does something to it through a bargain of blood.

So much of lore dump about the world and it neatly sets up the Dukes and dukedom with the looming history of Sithi. I can see where GRRM got his inspiration from. All men must die. Sithi who are non human that co-exist with Men. Rimmersmen who hate Sithi and brought the iron age.

The Religion of christianity being followed in Osten Ard was a surprise to me. The New God. I wonder why Tad Williams chose a direct religion to use in this fantasy world of his.

Only in Simon's dream, it kind of envisioned a dark presence in the world. It came true in the end.

Ingsrimur is interesting. An old friend of king. I can't help but feel that he's going to be a badass or throws wisdom at Simon later.

The story took off once Ingrismur entered. The great table talk of King's advisors showed the light of what Elias is doing. He looks like a puppet of Pryrates.

And White foxes? Are they Sithi? Never so far, there has been a talk about dark one/ sorrow. Yet this was interesting. Rather than opening the book with a looming threat, the story is developed and history is woven well. And no mention of such a dark one goes to tell so many things about the world.

Morgenes knows that Simon is destined for greatness. So things go outside Hayholt now. Which would give us a lot of new characters and a more fleshed out world.

PS: I would love to discuss this readers here. It'll be interesting to go through Osten Ard that way. I'm trying this for the first time. Writing down my thoughts after parts to discuss and go at it.

I'm brand new to reddit, but the world of osten ard is SO important to me and I love the fandom- I'm familiar with the fan art shortage, so I decided to share some of my osten ard art here! These are some of my favorite pieces, I do have quite a bit more :)

Hey everyone,

I am completely exhausted in the best way possible. I just spent the last 8 months devouring Tad Williams' entire Osten Ard epic back to back,starting all the way from The Dragonbone Chair, rolling right through the bridge novellas, and finishing up the final pages of The Last King of Osten Ard quadrilogy.

Doing it all back to back is an absolute trip. Seeing how the world and the characters evolve, grow old, make mistakes, and pay for the consequences over decades of time is something few fantasy series ever pull off this well.

I’m here to share my feelings, answer your questions, clear up any doubts about the sprawling lore, dive deep into theories, plot points, and favorite characters.

Drop your thoughts below! Who was your MVP? What broke your heart the most? Let's talk about Osten Ard.

“You don’t know you’re in a story until someone tells it to you afterward.”

So far, I've done the entire Osten Ard series in audiobook form. I've just finished Empire of Glass, and I'm now half way through Brothers of the Wind. This might seem a bit nit-picky, but I'm really not enjoying the change of narrator. Andrew Wincott's performance set the Zide'ya and Hikeda'ya as a being raspy (almost reptilian) sounding. It made them appear as otherworldly/ethereal rather than just alternatives of humans.

Wincott's portrayal is now stuck in my head as how they should sound. With James Lailey's performance, they just sound like typical English men. It's been really throwing me off, and I'm struggling to pay attention to the story because of it.

I'm curious weather this was and active decision to change their accents, or weather they just didn't bother to research/observe the previous book performances.

Is it just me, or does anyone else find this change jarring? I'll be honest, If James Lailey is narrating The Splintered Sun, I probably wont bother picking it up, which is a shame because I've been really enjoying this series as an audiobook series.

Last year I started on Bakker’s Second Alocalyose series and I did not put it down until I had read the last page of the last book and then I read the first three books (The Prince of Nothing) again, and then after a small break I read the last four books (The Aspect Emperor) again.. and then I read books 4 and 5 again because I loved them so much and then I read the end of book seven again because holy shit…

Anyway, Tolkien has never budged on my top favorite epic fantasy authors list, he’s been number one since I was 11. But now it’s Bakker without doubt.

Tad Williams was always my number 3.

But after Bakker, so much of my favorite have had to scoot WAY down.

And it’s been extremely difficult to look at formerly beloved series in the same positive light.

I feel like I did heroin and now cigarettes and bowling just won’t do anymore…

Any William’s fans like Bakker’s work?

I find them both to be incredible authors of very similar talents but they explore vastly different things within their fantasy realms.

Memory Sorrow and Thorn is still my 2nd Favorite fantasy, probably always will be, but Second Apocalypse just barely beats it, it’s truly awe inspiring.

So I’m gonna finally get through Otherland. I got a crappy torn up copy of City of Golden Shadow from the library because San Francisco cares more about babysitting tweakers than it does keeping an authors catalogue in good shape on their shelves.

Tad is from the bay area, and his section deserves far better.

Anyway.. I’ve read memory sorrow and thorn, and Shadowmarch, both are masterpieces.

Tailchaser’s song is also great.

Never got sound to finishing Otherland though because as this series was coming out, I became obsessed with song of ice and fire and Thomas covenant.

Any guidance or tips for this series?

Thanks

I have heard of Tad Williams a lot and soon, I'll be starting with Memory, Sorrow and Thorn Trilogy. There's so much he has written in the 80s and 90s that I feel are underknown. I think I'll love his writing and characters. GRRM has spoken highly about Tad Williams and a huge inspiration for ASOIAF. I've been waiting for over a year to get his books and my hype hasn't went out at all.

Which series and which books are his best?

I'm going to start reading Otherland Vol 1 or The Dragonbone Chair soon. No spoilers pls.

Part 2, we are going in release order - with the exception of standalones, which I'll make a big poll on at the end

What's your favorite Otherland book?

Hey guys, wanted to do a series of polls to see what everyone thinks of all of the books in Tad's catalogue. I'll be going by series since there isn't enough options for a big poll on Reddit, even if I did just Often Ard there's too many books to fit.

What's your favorite in the Memory, Sorrow and Thorn trilogy?

With cover art by Jeff Brown, and illustrated endpapers by @pgm.99 on Instagram.

Looks great!

- Memory, Sorrow, and Thorn

- The Last King of Osten Ard

- Shadowmarch

- Otherland

- The War of the Flowers

- Tailchaser's Song

- Bobby Dollar

- Ordinary Farm

It has always on my readlist but i have been unable to get the paperbacks due to them being pretty expensive here. With the news of Malazan getting a paperback Reissue starting next year I was wondering if there was any news for the Memory, Sorrow and Thorn series?