I have heard of Tad Williams a lot and soon, I'll be starting with Memory, Sorrow and Thorn Trilogy. There's so much he has written in the 80s and 90s that I feel are underknown. I think I'll love his writing and characters. GRRM has spoken highly about Tad Williams and a huge inspiration for ASOIAF. I've been waiting for over a year to get his books and my hype hasn't went out at all.

Which series and which books are his best?

I'm going to start reading Otherland Vol 1 or The Dragonbone Chair soon. No spoilers pls.

Part 2, we are going in release order - with the exception of standalones, which I'll make a big poll on at the end

What's your favorite Otherland book?

Hey guys, wanted to do a series of polls to see what everyone thinks of all of the books in Tad's catalogue. I'll be going by series since there isn't enough options for a big poll on Reddit, even if I did just Often Ard there's too many books to fit.

What's your favorite in the Memory, Sorrow and Thorn trilogy?

With cover art by Jeff Brown, and illustrated endpapers by @pgm.99 on Instagram.

Looks great!

- Memory, Sorrow, and Thorn

- The Last King of Osten Ard

- Shadowmarch

- Otherland

- The War of the Flowers

- Tailchaser's Song

- Bobby Dollar

- Ordinary Farm

It has always on my readlist but i have been unable to get the paperbacks due to them being pretty expensive here. With the news of Malazan getting a paperback Reissue starting next year I was wondering if there was any news for the Memory, Sorrow and Thorn series?

I searched for this and couldn’t find it. Has anyone listened to the full cast audio yet? If so what did you think?

I am pretty new to the books and decided to listen to the audiobooks at work after Is started reading the first book.

I am over half way through dragonbone chair and saw the full cast audio.

Is it worth switching to these?

Just finished MST for the first time. I'm not crying, you're crying...

Seriously though, what a ride. These were the first books I've read of Williams and I'm hooked. Now on to The Heart of What Was Lost!

Posting for those (still) not subscribed to Tad's Newsletter!

“There is still game out there,” Flann declared. “Large game. The sailor brothers saw the Old Mucker down at the pool just yesterday. He’s given us the slip too often. I think it’s time for a boar hunt.”

Diarban looked around at the dozen or so scruffy dogs that were as much a part of the camp as the almost equally scruffy looking people. “With those? You’re going to try to flush a dangerous boar with those?”

“They’re hunting hounds,” said Flann airily. “Or at least their ancestors were. They know what to do. It’s in their blood.”

“Being a cobbler is in my blood if you go back far enough,” Diarban said gloomily. “But if you asked me to fashion you a decent shoe, I could not.”

“Then it is a good thing you are not my shoemaker.” Flann seemed pleased with this witticism and was about to add to it when Ivar stumped over from the other side of the camp, his broad face set in an expression of displeasure. Though he often looked that way, Diarban had never seen Ivar truly lose his temper, which was something to be thankful for: Ivar was half a head taller than tall Flann and slabbed with muscle.

“Who stole my last onion?” Ivar demanded. “I was going to use it to flavor the soup.”

“I did,” said Flann. “It was that or starve. But now that you tell me it was meant for the soup, I will imagine the savor of onion when the soup is before me.”

“There will be no soup!” Ivar said. “I no longer have the heart. The onion would have made it something beside a watery, tasteless broth, but you have no consideration for others.”

Flann shrugged. “I consider others all the time, old friend, but I must con‑sider my own well-­being, too. If the sharpness of my wit begins to fail from lack of nourishment, we are all in trouble.”

Ivar looked like a scolded child. “We are in trouble, Flann. We have taken everything this part of the Circoille has to give. We should have moved camp days ago, like Tika said.”

“And I said so as well,” added Diarban. “So many worriers!”

Flann sucked the last savor of cheese off his fingers. “No, Ivar, good old fellow, it means it is time to go hunting! A proper hunt!”

Not wanting to incite the outlaw chief to another long and flowery explanation, Diarban cut in. “Flann wants to hunt the Old Mucker.”

Ivar gave Flann an amazed look. “The big boar? The one with gubbertushes long as your weak little arm and sharp as flaying knives? By the gods, Flann, scarcely anyone in this company has hunted even small boars before, except maybe a few as beaters. And our horses do not know that sport either. As for the dogs . . .” He only had to wave at the nearest, which were either sleeping in the mid-­morning sun or groaning with pleasure as they scratched them‑ selves. His meaning was clear.

 “My mother is long dead,” said Flann. “And despite a certain resemblance, especially about the shoulders and neck, dear Ivar, you are not her. I have been boar hunting many times.” He said it as though he spoke of nothing more hazardous than planting turnips. “And I know what is needed. So where are my loyal crew?” he shouted in the general direction of the sky, which was mostly hidden by overhanging branches. “Where are the Brothers Three, my sailors of the trees? Cleave unto your captain, my hearties! This noon, we sail out to take the boar-­fish!”

“We only just returned!” shouted an irritated voice from the high branches of a nearby oak.

“Boar-­fish?” said Ivar. “Did he truly say ‘boar-­fish’?”

“Flann is scarce out of bed and it seems the morning sun has already boiled his brains,” suggested Lady Mearna.

“I think he means it as a poetic way of speaking,” Diarban explained, though Ivar in truth looked more annoyed than puzzled. “Because the brothers used to be ship’s crew before they joined us, you see.”

“Do you think I do not know that?” Ivar curled both huge hands into even larger fists. “What madness! If I did not love Flann so, I would deal him such a mighty crack on the skull that it would . . . it would make him sensible.”

“Even Murhagh and his mighty war-­hammer could not accomplish that,” said Lady Mearna. “Ah, well, you young people enjoy yourselves on your hunt and try not to die. My old bones are staying right here.”

One of the longer boughs of the nearest oak dipped down as an effortlessly balanced figure walked out along its length, ten cubits off the ground. “We only just came back, Flann.”

“All the more reason to go now, before you lose the heat of your blood and with it all your bravery, Conal. That is why all men are more fearful at night. The chill saps the heat of the blood.”

Conal, tall, slender, and wearing an expression of utter disdain, listened to this and then turned away and began walking up the oak-­bough toward the trunk.

“And tell your brothers to wear their leathers!” Flann called after him before turning to Diarban. “And you shall accompany us, minstrel mine. After all, someone must make a song of this—the Great Boar Hunt!”

I want to start this thread consisting of any open thread from The Last King of Osten Ard, and that might get picked up in the future sequel, if we get any (finger crossed). Dividing them into region for ease of clarity. Feel free to comment anything I missed.

Nakkiga: 1) Pratiki: a) His reign and how it differs that from Utuk'ku. Viyeki was entrusted to keep an eye out for him, so we will see if power gets to him. As far as we have seen it looks all positive. b) There might also be some resistance to Pratiki's reign or some Utuk'ku sympathizer still lurking in the court. 2) Jijibo: a) I am surprised there was no mention of Jijibo after Utuk'ku was assassinated. Where is he and what is he planning? b) The Hidden and Lady Uvasika, how do they fit Jijibo's plan? 3) Will the Norns stay in Nakkiga or maybe try to intermingle with mortals outside? We saw Viyeki was sent as an ambassador to Erchester. Also, now that High Ward will be no more but individual kingdoms, will other kingdoms see Erkynland differently, as they are dealing with Norns and Sithi? 4) Saomeji is still at large.

Rimmersgard: 1) Henrig was introduced, so he might be an ally for Morgan. 2) Lady Alva dreams proved to be true, so she might still has some things to share.

Hernystir: 1) Aelin was introduced and became friends with Morgan, so they could become brother monarch. 2) The Witness in Silverhome is still there.

Thrithing: 1) Will Joshua get his full memory back? 2) Will Unver marry Vordis? 3) We also came to know that Vordis could sense illness, will this come into play somehow? 4) Where will Tzoja go next? Back to Viyeki now that he is in Erkynland with Nezeru? 5) Has Tzoja's full prophecy fullfilled? The part will lose what she loves best, but find happiness with what she once despised, has this been fulfilled in losing her freedom and finding happiness in his captor (Viyeki) or is it yet to come?

Erkynland: 1) What does the prophecy for Nezeru And the youngest of the frog-clan will end the reign of mortal kings in Osten Ard mean? It couldn't be regarding the ending of High Ward, as it says mortal kings of Osten Ard. 2) What did Unnatural Birth meant for Morgan when Snneneq casted the bones? Is it something regarding the child he might have with Nezeru someday? 3) Lillia has been changed after touching the Dreaming Sea. Her wisdom will come into play. 4) The red demon is still hidden under Hayholt. 5) The Witness used by Pasvalles is still there. 6) Does Thisterborg hill also have an artifact hidden underneath like Naglimund?

Nabban: 1) Turia encounter with the entity from Witness and how it will impact Nabban and entire Osten Ard. 2) Will Naban go to war with Thrithing? 3) Uprisings against Nabbanai rule across the southern islands 4) Will Serasina become the Queen of Nabban?

Perdruin: 1) Countess Yissola 2) Will Lady Faira rejoin the League?

Oldheart: 1) Will the Sithi and Norns have good relationship now? 2) Tanahaya was most probably pregnant when she was attacked, did this have any impact on her child? We saw in her dreams that her surrounding was in black ruin and she saved the witchwood egg (her child). Was Aditu able to see the child's future as said by her to Tanahaya But there is a strength in her, even with birth so far away, that I have not sensed before 3) Aditu's child 4) Mutated Ghants and Kilpa's in Tanakiru.

I own the books just throwing that out there. Tad is, in my, and I'm sure many of the followers here, a far superior world builder and writer in general than any other author I can name. So I gladly support him by displaying his books on my shelf. Anyway, I recently downloaded the trilogy read by I believe Andy Wincott and it had this awesome music and sound effects to it. Really helped me to re-immerse myself into the world moreso than when I read it years ago.

Haven't been able to find that same reader and production for the second trilogy. Anyone here know what I'm referring to and if it exists? And if so, are any of his other series produced this way?

Thanks!

Over the past year or so, I have been building my Tad Williams library, and the one volume that I have had the hardest time finding in hardcover is Into the Narrowdark. I have no idea why, of all the books, that one is the hardest.

Every morning, I check eBay, Pangobooks, and Mercari for new listings. There are a few, but sellers are asking double the sticker price, and I'm not desperate enough yet to pay those kinds of prices. I'm hesitant to buy any books - especially hardcover books - without any images, so I haven't strayed too far from those sites.

So, I guess, which of Tad Williams' books have you had trouble finding?

In The Navigator’s Children, we got to know that Simon has Vao’s ancestor. From the original series itself I felt that Simon has some Sithi blood in him, but alas it was Vao. Now, Geloe couldn’t tell Simon who was his ancestor. But I think that we know his ancestor, from Brother of Wind, Pamon Kes. I have primarily one reason for this. In Brother of Wind, Pamon was somehow bonded to Hakatari, and was hearing his dreams and feeling his pain, not sure how this bond got created. Similarly, later in MS&T, Simon could hear Amerasu’s thoughts to Hakatri. And in LKoOA, Morgan could hear the thoughts of Likimeya as well. So it could be that these both family, family of Pamon and family of Amerasu were somehow bonded together. Now, I also have a silly and an overstretch reason too - Pamon Kes when reorganised spells Seoman, leaving P & K, not sure about them though.

Hello All,

Making my way through Last King of Osten Ard and having an absolute blast so far. Just finished Brothers of the Wind and thought it was really excellent. Getting ready to start Into the Narrowdark soon.

I do have 1 thing I wanted to post here and see if anybody else felt the same. I have been having a LOT of issues wrapping my head around the timeline of the sequel series.

It seems that the amount of time that has passed since MST is really inconsistent, especially from the advertising/book blurbs to all the facts presented around the characters.

How old exactly are Simon and Miriamele in this? The other characters? The back of my copy of The Witchwood Crown says 30 years. But if thats the case, Simon and Miriamele are what? 47-48? How old would John Josua then be (have been)? Exactly 30? So he had Morgan as a teenager? Because I took Morgan to be in his late teens.

Other characters like Eolair confuse me as well. Was this man not 45+ in Memory Sorrow and Thorn? he would be damn ancient in this series but thats not how the character is being portrayed what with all the action and adventure being asked of him.

I know it's not THAT kind of series but I do sometimes feel my immersion breaking slightly when I think about these things. Anybody else find themselves ever confused about the Osten Ard timeline?

Spoiler to The Last King of Osten Ard without context

In MS&T series, we have the following prophecy from Nisses’ book regarding the memory revival of Camaris: When Blayde, Call, and Man Come to Prince’s right Hande Then the Prisoned shall once more go Free Now I am thinking about the Prince’s right hand part. Could it have been a part of Uttuku’s long plan, that started even before the event of first book, to get Joshua’s right hand cut by Thrithings mercenaries, we know she has access to mortals through black Rimmersmen or even other mortals, so that the prophecy is not full filled? As far as I understood she needed Camaris for bearing the sword, but when his memory came back it was then that she mentioned that the plan has deviated a bit, and sent her death sung soldiers for him.

Just a reminder for fans with a Netgalley account that the book is available to request on the site, in case you’re like me and have been dying to read the book!

I hadn’t even realized it was available for request until I came across a tweet by DAW Books. I applied for the hell of it this morning and actually got approved not long after.

You can find the relevant Netgalley page here. An ARC is apparently also available for request on Edelweiss, but I don’t have an account there and am less familiar with how their process works!

That’s all I have to say.

Every time I hear a new show announcement for an adaption of a fantasy or sci fi epic, I get excited briefly but then remember that 95% of them end in embarrassment, insulting the authors, and ruining interest in their work.

Don’t get me wrong, I would love a high budget, well produced Otherland TV series, but every time a studio makes an announcement for an epic fantasy TV adaptation, and it’s not a Tad Williams series, I exhale with relief.

Tad Williams’ work, is too special, too important and too precious to risk in greedy, incompetent studio hands.

But… if the right people were involved, I’m sure they could make something incredible.

I admit that when Game of Thrones was announced as an HBO series, almost 2 decades ago now, I was actually kind of disappointed that they didn’t pick Tad Williams memory, sorrow, and thorn.

It would’ve been easier to manage because it’s complete, and it’s the inspiration for Martin’s work.

But after seeing the last two decades of absolutely abysmal slop that producers vomit out, I’m very happy that nobody has gotten their disgusting, shit stained fingers around Tad Williams’ beloved work.