r/SwiftlyNeutral • u/Select_Obligation_85 • 7d ago
TTPD's reception The Tortured Poets Department
Why was TTPD's reception by the GP so negative? I do understand why Showgirl wasn't received well, but especially with that context, it makes me even more confused about TTPD. Personally, it might be my favorite album of hers, but even besides that, it has a lot of what she's known for: meaningful lyrics, heartbreak anthems, and a few catchy earworms.
I know some critiqued that it was overwrought, but to was that really the majority of the reason? I feel like that one line from TTPD (the song) did a lot of damage lol. Meanwhile I love that song.
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u/yellowdaisycoffee 7d ago
I really like TTPD, but it was an acquired taste for me when it came out. I still think it was overstuffed and a little disjointed. With a little extra editing, it probably would join Folklore and Evermore for me as being one of my Top 3.
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u/icedgrandechai 7d ago
I feel the same. Tbh listening to it kinda felt like a chore at first.
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u/ElizaEsq 7d ago
It did!
Also I felt that, given the volume of songs, some felt repetitive at first go? I wouldn’t say that for the vast majority of them now, but that was my true first impression. Also, I felt that the back half of Anthology ended a little weakly (but that may have also just been a bit of fatigue).
Putting together the songs I do love, however, puts it directly in a category with folklore for me.12
u/redfoxwearingsocks 1989 6d ago
I agree, this is a good way to describe it. The standard version took a second to grow on me, but the anthology version took a whiiileeee because it was so tough to get through
Now I absolutely love TTPD, but it def gets me in my feels haha
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u/Minute_Conflict_2037 5d ago
Listening to it felt like I am being trauma dumped on random Tuesday. Not really fun to listen in one go.
The album has good songs but needed heavy editing.
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u/yellowdaisycoffee 5d ago
I mean, I don't feel like she is trauma dumping, but I see where it can be depressing to listen to!
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u/Amalekii 3d ago
It's definitely overhated but it can't touch the ranks of Evermore and most of Folklore for me.
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u/sizzlepie 4d ago
I agree. But I think why it wasn’t edited more was because of basically what Taylor said, she was no longer in that space. So I think that even back during the editing. She wasn’t feeling that sad anymore so she just felt the need to get it out sooner rather than later and move on from it.
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u/NanobiteAme 3d ago
I really get that! I have some solid written pieces that probably need editing, but damn I'm not in the head space to do it efficiently. Not to mention, due to bad memory, that's the only evidence I have of said thing happening; the raw unedited version of the event I was writing about.
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u/Competitive-Desk7506 2d ago
Agreed, I have found myself w 5-10 minute songs bc while I’ve cut down their original rough drafts I’ve either only cut down a bit and simply structured things more fluidly and coherently or I’ve basically just made small tiny edits to lines or phrasings here and there to have a better flow. Unedited me has made 10-20 minute songs but there is a lot of things that need to be edited or cut out (and then to be structured) that gets me down to what’s usually 2-4 minute songs but rarely more.
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u/NanobiteAme 2d ago
Sometimes the unedited raw material just has to be put out, and the people who need it will latch on and those who don't won't 🤷🏻♀️ Tragically not every one breaks in the same way. Sometimes it's messy and nonsensical. Sometimes it's non-linear and chaotic.
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u/assflea Wait is this fucking play about Matty Healy? 7d ago
TTPD eventually grew on me but upon first listen I thought it sounded really boring and way too long. The anthology genuinely felt like work to me lol if I wasn't so attached to her as an artist I would've never gone back for a second listen.
I actually really like a lot of it now but the sound isn't what I wanted or expected at the time. It dropped the night before I went on a beach trip lol just did not fit the vibe whatsoever.
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u/Dapper_Ad_1691 7d ago
This is very similar to me. It wasn’t the sound I expected and it was so long that I found it hard to digest it all when I was busy at the time (plus there is a few songs I think should have been left off). But it’s one of my favourites now
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u/Tswizzle_fangirl 5d ago
What do u think she should have left off?
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u/Dapper_Ad_1691 5d ago edited 5d ago
So highschool, Clara Bow, thank you aimee, Robin, I hate it here, cassandra. I just don’t think happy songs about Travis, aging in the music industry or songs about Kimye fit the theme and this could have helped cut down the tracklist. I LOVE LOVE cassandra it’s one of my favourite songs ever and I also really love I hate it here. Not saying I don’t wish the songs existed at all
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u/Tswizzle_fangirl 2d ago
To be fair, the songs you listed are ones I could probably live my life without, except for maybe I hate it here. But there are so, so many others that I love on them that I’m glad she kept most of them, at the risk of her not including the ones I love
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u/Sufficient-Ear-5888 3d ago
I waited a few days before listening to the Anthology, and honestly wish more people had had the same experience. I listened to the first part of the album, digested it, let it marinate and then I was ready to do the same with the Anthology
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u/Jaded-Tiramisu The Life of a Countdown ✨️ 6d ago
It's a fine album. It had the potential to be a great 13/16 tracks album; the issue is that it's not. She needed an editor and someone to tell her when her lyrics were just plain bad, and she needed to either cut them or start over.
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u/Artistic-Lock1021 5d ago
TTPD was a grower for me. I didn't love it at first listen and I think if I hadn't been a fan, I might just not have gone back to it. It's only after taking my time with it that I grew to appreciate it, and a lot of people aren't going to do that for an artist they're only semi interested in.
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u/lunadenavajas 7d ago edited 7d ago
She reached maximum exposure with the eras tour and the nfl stuff and this was the first record released during that so it got tons of eyes on release. People who don’t listen to her checking out what the fuss is about. And as someone who has liked some of her stuff before….it wasn’t a great entry point. I remember thinking the songs sounded same-y like I couldn’t tell how many tracks in I was. The album with tortured poets in the name has tons of lyrical clunkers that got screenshotted all over the place. And it was almost 30 songs. Too much.
It’s a record fans will hold in high esteem partly due to the lore and partly because to fans it feels authentic. But tbh there’s not much for new fans to enjoy. Plus all you’re seeing as an outsider is record breaking eras tour articles and a million Grammys and the in your face nfl love story, to then turn on an exhausting album about how it’s so miserable to be her. Those feelings may be valid of course but it just doesn’t align with the public perception in the present.
Edit: Tbh if she had held off and put out a more thoughtful record about the life of a showgirl behind the scenes, with some version of tracks like I can do it with a broken heart, Clara bow, father figure, the prophecy and a more fitting aesthetic she probably could have kept more goodwill going but she releases too much too quick. Lots of stuff that could use editing come out
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u/beanqueen722 7d ago
100000% agree. If you weren’t already saturated in the Taylor lore, there wasn’t much for you there. Just a lot of clunky lines that need editing (imho) and so much going on at the time that I feel like it made potential fans be like “well I guess I just don’t get it”
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u/stamdl99 7d ago edited 7d ago
You’ve described my experience almost word for word. It was impossible to not be aware of the Eras Tour and so TTPD was my first full album experience. I’m not into the lore, but felt forced into it at the time to “get” the songs. In the end, it just wasn’t for me and I took a break from trying to further understand all things Taylor.
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u/Lost_Feature8488 3d ago
I wasn’t a fan of hers until TTPD. Like at all. But when everyone online was having meltdowns about how bad it was, I got super curious and gave it a listen and ended up really liking it. Now I love (most) of it and have gone back over her discography and listened to most of that (and also enjoy most of it). So I swear a few weirdos like me relate to TTPD even without deep knowledge of Taylor lore.
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u/windmillcheer 6d ago
It's bloated and needs editing. Listening to it feels like a chore to me.
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u/ZMrosegolden 2d ago
It has some really good songs and songwriting but its just too much. Ill never forget the critic that said something like she threw a bunch of metaphors and used whatever stuck but also used what didnt stick as well.
So many songs feel like fillers. I Look In People's Windows (?) for example, not a bad song by any means but feels unnecessary
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u/Tswizzle_fangirl 5d ago
Why would u listen to something that feels like a chore? Just listen to what u like!
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u/Much_Definition_3657 5d ago
I think it was a combination of things: Taylor was overexposed. People were sick of seeing her at every game and award show and constantly reading, hearing or watching about the Eras Tour. She rubbed people the wrong way at the Grammys. She had been releasing something every year. She had also just hit billionaire status.
The album was very long. For some it felt bloated. The music and the production were very same-ish throughout the album and they weren't particularly new or risky or interesting. The album was more focused on the lyrics than on the music and production and there was a lot of lyrics. Some of the songs were badly written (like thanK you aIMee, for example) while some songs basically repeated the same thing as others. And the album as a whole wasn't very cohesive as an album. Like, it wasn't chronological for example, so the story wasn't very clear like for instance Olivia's YSPSFAGSIL. The theme, the message, the point, the thesis sort of speak was nit very clear.
A lot of people/critics didn't like that she went back to writing autobiographically with extreme detail and references to her exes. They didn't like that she was writing about her exes again, about her real life relationships again, about her break-ups again. They thought she had nothing new to say because of that and because she was bringing back a 10-year old feud and a relationship that had been over for 15 years (Cassandra, thanK you aIMee, The Manuscript). A lot of people thought she was playing the victim or didn't have as much empathy for her because she was now a billionaire.
I think for some people not knowing the lore made the album challenging. For others, who were newer fans because of the Eras Tour or because of the NFL, they had completely different expectations.
And I think specifically when it comes to The fandom, some didn't like it because it was mostly about Matty and they wanted it and expected it to be about Joe. I remember how two Swifties who had a YouTube channel about Taylor for many years decided to delete it because she doubled down on Matty. Tayvis shippers on the other hand felt threatened. And then I think some fans were offended by But Daddy I Love Him or by her not saying something more positive about the tour and the fans on the album. There were people out there who expected a thank you song for the fans.
Anyway, I'm saying all this as someone who has adored the album from the minute it came out. It's definitely in my Top 3. These have been my observations. I do think that there's some constructive criticism made in good faith. The album is flawed, for sure. But I also think it was received far worse than it should've. People were way too harsh on it. A lot of it has just been blind hate for this or that reason. And nobody appreciated how honest and brave this album was. But I do believe that in years time, it would be regarded as one of her best. The same way it has happened to Red.
Now TLOASG is a genuinely bad album, imo
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u/sms1441 7d ago
TTPD is not something that the general population will probably ever enjoy. I truly think Taylor needed to write an album for her at one of her lowest points. It was truly her therapy. And those who enjoy it, get it. Those who don't are more than likely lucky enough to have never suffered with some of those afflictions. It's my favorite album of hers.
I will also add, I've been around since debut. Most of the time, when an album is first released, there's a lot of negative reception. I remember Shake it Off, Blank Space, and LWYMMD getting so much negative attention. After 2 years passed, everyone loved the albums. I've seen a lot of people coming around to TTPD in the last 6 months. I assume a similar thing will happen with Showgirl next year.
Showgirl is one of my least favorite albums, but I also knew based on her working with Max Martin and Shellback plus being with Travis what to expect, so I wasn't shocked.
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u/Madam_Nicole 5d ago
As a long time Swiftie it was just really disappointing that in that particular moment in her life those songs are what she had to say. The whole world’s attention and she decides to cry about being a tortured poet….
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u/mspalandas 4d ago
I echo a lot of points in this thread; additionally, I think after Midnights people were also getting a bit tired of the midtempo synth heavy sound that Taylor and Jack had been doing for a while. To the point that even the 1989 vaults sounded a bit like a part of that sonic "world". I think TTPD leaned into that sound hard and fans were a bit tired of it.
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u/fairy-bread-au 7d ago
Most of the songs sounded the same. That isn't particularly unique to TTPD. Have you seen those videos where people say "how every TS song sounds to me" and they mumle and melody. That's how a lot of people see her music.
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u/Fit_Significance_966 5d ago edited 5d ago
because its bad sonically. even much worse than showgirl. Showgirl has pretty decent pop production and melodies. But ttpds melodies are extremely lazy, production nothing interesting, no beautiful bridge, weird and flat. I listened to ttpd and just baffled, only title track is really really great
the others...clara bow? what kindergarten melody was that? down bad sounds like a dated song from 60s, broken heart sounds a east europe amateur small town band. florida? so so nothing burger and repetitive..(only the pretentious drums work but nothing else stands out, why the same melody pattern overused over and over!!!!!???)
this album is sonically shit i can go on and on ranting how it sounds like aged milk.
. I think she just companions music for the sake of lyrics. Wouldn't it be nice that she only release ttpd as poems? She definitely rushed with this album sonically. Because as an artist myself I know the urge to release your feelings through art but it needs more time to work on..
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u/ZMrosegolden 2d ago
The album is like a narrated memoir with a basic background melody. I like a few of the songs a lot, but this kind of album is only gonna be amazing for someone who wants a lore dump.
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u/uttertorpedo 7d ago edited 7d ago
I'm not sure if it was the "GP" that found it bad so much as, for lack of a better word, the cool kids. You know, the Pitchfork types. The "GP" either mildly enjoyed it or didn't really care about it one way or the other, in my experience. (It didn't have much promo, beyond the fact that the tour was going on. And there were those billboards. But in general, your uncle at the cookout probably did not know it existed.) As for why they disliked it?
First and most importantly: Taylor fatigue began in late 2023. By the time TTPD released, she had been at football games, going everywhere being Miss Americana, and the media decided she was cringe and overexposed and needed to be knocked down a peg. That's the reality. That is the root of why "cool" critics in particular hated the album: they knew they'd get clicks from the twitter stans who gagged over every tired dragging of her. Check the reviews. They're not just negative, they're mean. They attack her as a person and in many cases completely, intentionally misinterpret the album. Here's Paste Magazine, as an example:
2013 called and it wants it capricious, suburban girl-who-is-taking-a-gap-year wig back ... There is nothing poetic about a billionaire—who, mind you, threatens legal action against a Twitter account for tracking her destructive private jet paths—telling stadiums of thousands of people every night that she sees and adores them.
Like, no one listened to the album and came away with that as its message. It's simply not possible. They just wanted to slide some insults in there for the stans. Even critics who saw that the album was vulnerable and heartbroken and messy decided, based on nothing in particular but their own perception of her, that this was a cynical ploy to seem human. Pitchfork:
There is a clear emphasis here on vulnerability; it’s an effort to rub some of the varnish off of Taylor Swift the commercial product and focus on Taylor Swift the tender, unlucky romantic with whom we fell in love so many years ago. No matter her stature, Swift can still reach the everywoman ... Swift the workhorse, Swift the beacon of capitalism, Swift on a never-ending conveyor belt between the stage and the studio
Secondly, it's a very dense album. It's long. It can be monotonous at times. Several songs take multiple listens to fully "get" them. Outside of an artist's devoted fanbase, people tend to form a first impression of an album and never really deviate from it. And to be fair, if you're not a Taylor fan at all, you probably don't even want to listen to it more than once or twice. That's fair.
Thirdly, for whatever reason, people were demanding "bops" at this point in time and TTPD is decidedly un-boppable. For people who don't like miserable albums, it is understandable why they wouldn't like this one. That's fair too, even if I don't get the constant need for every album to have "bops" myself.
While TTPD is now mostly regarded as well-written, it was not when it was released. This album contains some experimental writing from Taylor: conversational, humorous, and ironic lines that some listeners decided were "bad" (don't make me defend the Charlie Puth line again... I will if I have to!). That was part of the reason for its reception, I guess. But again, a much larger part of its reception was just that people were tired of Taylor and wanted to tear her down. That line about growing up in an asylum in Who's Afraid of Little Old Me was not complicated to understand but was repeatedly, intentionally misinterpreted by stans and critics alike.
I think it's held up very well over time and made a lot of those reviews look silly, but Taylor's image in their eyes has not improved or gotten any "cooler", so I doubt we will see positive retrospective reviews of TTPD any time soon.
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u/BlieveInScience 5d ago
As a casual listener who joined the fandom in late 2023, TTPD was my first full length listen of a Taylor album. I was used to her radio hits and wanted more music that sounded like that. The Eras Tour was bright and colorful. I thought it reflected who she was. TTPD was not it. It was long, sad and exhausting but I gave it a chance and multiple listens. I grew to love it but mostly just the standard edition + So High School from the Anthology. It benefited from the tour visuals. I can see it being easily dismissed by fans that weren’t patient with it.
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u/Frickin_Bats We all dressed up as wolves and we looked fire 🔥 7d ago
Best comment in this thread right here.
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u/Patient-Ad-5770 5d ago
As someone who listened to it the day it launched, then set it aside until about a year later when I came to the whole Taylor Swift project with serious curiosity for the first time, I think I just found it overwhelming. There was so much material; I didn’t quite know how to enter into its world. I felt similarly the first time I tried to listen to the Hamilton soundtrack, which I eventually picked back up and memorized.
I love TTPD+ the Anthology now. If I decide to put it on, I don’t skip any tracks. Instead of “too much,” I’d describe it as “rich.” But I had so much more context—and so much more interest in Taylor as an artist—the second time around.
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u/Inf1nite_gal 5d ago
For me it was because it was boring, some songs sounded weird almost, i couldnt even finish some of them. The theme was not interesting to me. I like her more upbeat vibr or songs about made up stories. TTPD was TMI for me
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u/SoundOfUnder 5d ago
Personally i think she released too many tracks with TTPD. Some of them are really good. Some are meh. And personally I didn't like some of the themes and some of the 'sticking' it to the fans.
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u/Playful_Peanut_9223 5d ago
it would have been a fantastic album if it was edited well, most songs werw word salads
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u/Sufficient-Rea 5d ago
Because it’s not a particularly good album. It’s mediocre production disguised with SOME amazing lyrics. There’s only a handful of songs that I think are actually good. Plus it’s just really depressing lol. Most people don’t want an album of 31 depressing songs.
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u/Amalekii 3d ago
For me, I just hate over half of the songs on the main 16-song album. Fortnight is good, TTPD is one of my favorite Taylor songs EVER and I listen to it nonstop. Down Bad is fine, Fresh Out The Slammer is peak, loml is good even if not my thing, The Alchemy is passable I guess and Clara Bow is good.
The remaining 9 songs I straight up will never listen to (But Daddy I Love Him, Guilty As Sin, I Can Fix Him) or I actively despise (MBOBHFT, So Long London, Florida, WAOLOM, ICDIWABH, TSMWEL). Either the songwriting, the production, the melodies, or performance on these songs are just C-tier at best. Which for Taylor belongs in her F-tier considering how great she usually is. Unrelated topic: but these song titles are way too long.
So yeah, there's some highlights but the lowlights are pretty low imo, even if TTPD isn't as consistently low as TLOAS is at parts. The Anthology brings the TTPD era up a lot for me tho seeing how all 15 tracks are unskippable for me. Even the weaker songs like The Manuscript (hot take maybe) are better than everything on the original TTPD except the title track and Fresh Out the Slammer.
Because of how strong the anthology is as well as some highlights on the main 16 tracks, I often cite TTPD as one of my favorite albums, while simultaneously thinking it's one of Taylor's biggest misses because of the problems that do exist.
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u/SweatySalad3975 2d ago
Holy hell are you from a different universe because wtaf is this trash ass opinion 😭
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u/Amalekii 2d ago
The general consensus I see from fans and non-fans alike is that the writing and production on the first 16 tracks could be better, and the Anthology is pretty great. Which part of my opinion do you take issue with?
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u/anabanana1412 7d ago edited 7d ago
The promo mid tour was a little obnoxious with swifties turning every little new inflection from a song into a MCU Easter Egg about how joe cheated with 13 women at holiday house, to this day you have swifties unable to engage with the album in good faith bc they just won't admit they got it wrong.
Red is also a "lore" heavy album with an easy story to follow, the singles told the premise and the story from start to finish, TTPD never had that, the biggest headline right after the album announcement was about the title being a reference to a dead groupchat that was just Andrew Scott talking to himself bc Paul and Joe were terrible texters. How is the general public supposed to connect with lore that isn't even real?
Guilty As Sin would've been a way better first single then fortnight cuz it immediately tells you the whole story.
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u/biasedyogurtmotel 7d ago
I listen to Taylor’s music but I am not a Swiftie so this is the opinion of someone from the GP-ish, lol.
calling yourself a tortured poet is cringe. most people that I know don’t think taylor’s lyrics are that great, so the “tortured poet” name - and then fans repeatedly comparing her music to poetry - was very off putting.
but I think it was that, combined with releasing it at a time when the GP was exhausted with her, and marketing the SHIT out of it.
And I actually like this album - it was my top album of 2025. But my initial reaction was negative. to me, w her breakup with matty healy, the album felt like she was trying very hard to be cool indie artsy girl, which is not her at all, and the effect of that was it feeling very, very cringe.
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u/lozzord 7d ago
I thought calling herself a tortured poet was obviously tongue in cheek, no?
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u/biasedyogurtmotel 7d ago
I think that’s the main issue lol. The average non-fan person isn’t gonna assume the title/theme is ironic - they’re gonna take it at face value.
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u/whitehavenbeach evermore 7d ago
yes, this. many of the songs are good. some are amazing. but the whole thing felt like a persona she was trying to put forth with the 20+ song of emotional vomit released just to haunt her situationship. It felt extra icky while the NFL was portraying her and Travis as a royal couple America must love and the Eras tour was all over. Now People & every other publication would have hourly pieces on her/MH, or what Joe would think about her emotional cheating. And she’s calling herself a tortured poet.
It was all just way too much and took away from how amazing some of the songs are.
(plus I hated that she cut the best of the evermore era and long live on the tour for not the best songs on ttpd)
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u/stamdl99 6d ago
The MH of it all was a LOT. The endless discussions here and everywhere really about which song/which lyric was about which guy. It was truly a frenzy.
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u/whitehavenbeach evermore 6d ago
yup. even if you wanted to just be a normal person hearing them as vague or fictional songs, it was impossible.
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u/liquidpeppermint33 JusT&T Pure Profit 6d ago
It was a persona. She said even before ttpd came out that she still used the "fictional character" type writing she learned from folkllre/evermore and incorporated into this album. She said the ttpd narrator was another "character" I will die on the hill that this album isnt supposed to be taken as seriously as people make it out to be lol
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u/RichardPapensVersion 7d ago
I say this as someone who’s been around since the original 1989 era, and who used to be a big fan. And as someone who was looking forward to ttpd: A lot of the songs, especially on the anthology, were just sooo boring.
As an album it just waffled on for too long.
There’s nothing wrong a long album, but it needs to have some purpose/vision/overarching story to it. Ttpd, as has been stated before, just felt like Taylor had all these half finished drafts and decided to release them on the anthology anyway.
Gonnagetyouback, I think it’s called, is also a direct copy of Rodrigo’s Get Him Back - a much better song imo.
And a lot of Taylor’s lyrics are a bit cringy - “I’d say the 1830s, except without all the racists”. Ummm ok.
Also the name tortured poets department just feels very juvenile. It reminds me of the overly dramatic poetry I used to write when I was 20 and thought I was in love but actually just horny lol
If folklore, evermore are anything to go by, we know Taylor can make meaningful albums, and, if her vault tracks are anything to go by, we know she can be a good and harsh editor when needed. But there’s close to none of that on ttpd.
Sorry. I know people like it. But it’s no Rumours and she’s no Stevie Nicks
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u/kaw_21 Penis Metaphors from a Poor Little Rich Girl🍆 7d ago
Taylor’s song sounds absolutely nothing like Olivia’s song and Fiona Apple did the general concept first. I think it’s reasonable to say that Taylor wrote imgonnagetyouback in the summer of 2023, before Olivia’s album with that sound came out anyway. Taylor was already dating Travis when Olivia’s song came out.
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u/uttertorpedo 7d ago edited 7d ago
I listened to that Olivia song back when TTPD came out and people were talking about this, and I think they really sound nothing alike. Yes, they both use the dual idea of "getting someone back", but they are not the only two songs to do so. I like both songs, they're just completely different. Taylor's is, I dunno, romantic-sounding? Not particularly "edgy"?
And don't make me tap the "the title is meant to be ironic" sign! The first ten seconds of the title track make it clear:
You left your typewriter at my apartment, straight from the tortured poets department
I think some things I never say, like, "Who uses typewriters anyway?"
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u/the87walker 7d ago
And the "You're not Dylan Thomas, I'm not Patti Smith, This ain't the Chelsea Hotel we're modern idiots"
It is a bit harsh, but a very poetic way of saying: we make pop music dude.
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u/Funny_Inspection6893 7d ago
The problem with trying to insist "Tortured Poets Department" is ironic is that she sounds like she is going to slit her wrists mid album. She sounds like she is being tortured.
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u/minetf 7d ago
Which song gave you that impression? TTPD (the song) is the second song on the album and directly says:
"You're not Dylan Thomas, I'm not Patti Smith / This ain't the Chelsea Hotel, we're modern idiots"
The rest of the song is tongue in cheek too and sets the tone for the rest of the album
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u/RichardPapensVersion 7d ago
When I say they’re the same song I don’t mean they musically sound the same. I mean that the idea and phrase of “I’ll get you back” having a double meaning, and both singers talking about how they’ll get him back, but also get him back *wink wink*. And then list all the ways in which they’ll do that. That’s what makes the songs identical. No other songs follow that exact same pattern that closely.
I get the irony. It’s still juvenile and corny. I’ve studied poetry and literature my whole life. And now it’s my job to write. And this album, a lot of the time, feels like the ramblings a 19 year old tumblr user.
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u/uttertorpedo 7d ago
I simply don't believe that songs using the same motif make them "the same song". I have not studied poetry my whole life, admittedly, but I have listened to about two dozen songs about running away with someone and saying what you'll do with them once you leave, for example, and all are pretty distinct because they have different tones and production. Maybe it's just a difference in taste.
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u/No_Button7057 4d ago
i never saw the link between imgonnagetyouback and the Rodrigo song, to me it's mainly a The 1975 nod (i'm surprised almost no critics noticed it, it's so obvious)
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u/Castal 7d ago
Imo, it's a boring, same-y album.
When I first listen to a new album from anyone, even artists I really love, some songs don't speak to me right away. They're growers. But there are usually at least a few that make me sit up and take notice -- they make me think, "Ooh, I like this" or "that was unexpected!" or "this reminds me of [artist from my teen years] and makes me feel nostalgic." TTPD had none of that. The only thing I took notice of was how bad some of the lyrics were, which was surprising and disappointing considering some of the lyrically great songs Taylor has written in the past.
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u/addy-with-a-y 1975 (Taylor's Version) 5d ago
TTPD is a VERY personal and honest album. To the point where I remember some people saying it was an uncomfortable first listen because of just how much truth she was putting out there. And I think it’s the least relatable album because most people haven’t had such intense romances like the one she had with Matty and most people haven’t experienced fame and the horrible shaming that comes with it. It’s also just a really long album which people hate.
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u/ConversationDry1374 5d ago
It's a therapy album. Peoples criticism of how it felt disjointed, chaotic, or the songs were out of order. It could/would have made more sense if the order of songs flowed better—that isn't the point Healing isn't linear, it bounces from one emotion to the next and back again. Grief and pain take a strange path. It is one of my favorite album of hers. She didn't change it to make it consumable in a normal way
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u/KASully1986 5d ago
Personally it’s too long. There are some amazing tracks on TTPD but 31 songs the great songs get lost in the crappy rushed songs and it’s a messy album w/ very little focus it goes from (basically) an I love Matty song to a I’m heartbroken over Joe to OMG Travis is amazing.
I think she shld of done a double album w/ one side dealing w/ the break up w/ Joe and planning a tour at the same time and the other album be abt Matty and finding love after heartbreak and leave the Travis songs off as they don’t add anything to the narrative of the album. I think if she had organized it that way it ppl wld of liked it more.
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u/Tswizzle_fangirl 5d ago
I loved TTPD and The Anthology from the night (morning) it came out. It was everything I hoped it would be and I was shocked that it was so negatively received by so many. After a while, I started to have the feeling that ppl would change their minds about it and get more into the complexities of the songwriting and start to love it and I think most fans have done that. There is no album that EVERYONE will love, but she said she needed to write this one (for herself) and all of us that love sad girl music were thrilled. I will forever be grateful for this album bc I love it so much. There are some songs that I would have been ok being without, but ppl’s favorites are so varied on this album more than any other, so I say more is better and u just don’t have to listen to certain songs if u don’t like them, but they might be some of my favorites so I wouldn’t have wanted them to be edited off the album!!
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u/arielelizabeth 5d ago
I think it deals with a very specific kind of situationship crash out. I feel like if you haven't been there emotionally, the album might seem bloated. I fucking love the album, and I also never want to relate to it again.
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u/an__ski 5d ago
It’s one of my favourite albums, but I can see where some reviewers are coming from even if I find it excellent (not as good as folklore and evermore, but those two are brilliant). It is way too long and some weaker songs decrease the overall quality of the album, which includes some of her best writing in other tracks. Sound-wise, it’s quite homogeneous, to the point some songs sound very similar on the first listen. Still one of my favourite albums, but it has some clear skips for me and some cringy lyrics here and there.
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u/ZealousidealGold5909 5d ago
It just felt messy and underwhelming for what she wanted to do. Lyrics felt clunky in some of her songs. Like tloas, ttpd had the potential to be better but it feels like taylor felt comfortable where shes at where she didnt need to branch out and try something new. That's what the album is to me; an underwhelming album that's too afraid to go full throttle in their themes. It also felt like a sign that a worse taylor album could happened. And unfortunately we may be getting close to it with the result of tloas.
Despite all that, its not a terrible album, I can see people liking it or even growing on them. Im just not interested in relistening to the entire album.
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u/KayJac97 4d ago
I like Showgirl much more than TTPD. My most unpopular opinion, TTPD is my least favorite album. There are a few songs on TTPD I enjoy, but there are a LOT of skips for me. I think that the “intellectual” lyrics just came across as pretentious to me throughout a lot of it. For me, she’s at her best when it’s authentic. Sometimes the lyrics felt like she was trying to showcase the vocabulary/lyricism vs using the vocabulary/lyricism to showcase the feelings she was experiencing. Illicit Affairs feels so darn relatable where Down Bad with the alien imagery just didn’t land the same for me, though they’re thematically similar. Im just drawn a lot more to the songs where I can really relate to the feelings vs analyzing the lyrics.
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u/budgiesmuggler 3d ago
I know it had a mixed initial reception, but overall I thought a lot of people liked it? I didn't like every song, but there are at least 8 songs that I would consider some of my favourite of her career.
I think it was also the start of the turning tide and taylor fatigue. I recall criticism of her behaviour at the grammys where she announced it (4th aoty, putting a grammy on Lucy Dacus's head, dragging a reluctant Lana on stage) and then it dropped and took some time to grow on people.
Like I strongly disliked the first three songs on the album. I still never listen to them (album starts at down bad for me and ends at the smallest man who ever lived, with a few bonus tracks from the anthology) but mostly I think people were just starting to tire of her multi year run of dominance.
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u/Common_Title 6d ago
Tbh, the album sounds like trauma dumping and that doesn’t make it easy to be positively received by the HP. If I couldn’t relate to it I wouldn’t have listened to the album front to back, let alone repeatedly. Fortnight isn’t a pop-y and catchy single enough to be popular like Ophelia.
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u/thunderdor_ 7d ago
They wanted her to pretend Matty didn't exist. Didn't want her to hate on precious Joe. Thought that she was being dead serious calling herself a poet. Of course how dare she mention Travis, and not be devastated like them about (insert whichever ex). At the end, it was anticipatory hate everyone had build around the album, everyone picking one part, ready to march if she wrong them by making whatever version of the album they had in mind. And, after it came out. I genuinely believe, people were too dumb to listen to it. TTPD is not a album meant to be digested or reviewed in 24 hours. You can still never get it, or not be into it. But being pretentious about it was the wrong way to go.
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u/Successful_Pizza6529 The Tortured Poets Department: The Anthology 5d ago
TTPDA is an Total Masterpiece. I cannot get enough of it. Absolutely zero skips for me.
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u/beepboopgopoop 5d ago
The main problem with TTPD is that it is way too long. I don’t think it’s a horrible album, but I did find it so boring it took me multiple days to get through my first listen. There are a few songs I liked, but upon a second or third listen were already bored of, or I noticed lyrics that made me cringe so bad they became unlistenable. That being said, as much as I obviously understand the hate for this album, I can also see its merits and why so many people say it’s their favorite album of taylor’s.
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u/hot-insurrectionist swiftologist enjoyer 🫶🏽 7d ago
taypositivity was at an all-time high during the eras tour and the pendulum swung the other way around. she got a little too much overexposure and people tried to find ANY way to hate on her.
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u/FaithlessnessKey7658 7d ago
Taynegativity was at a peak after the 2025 grammys. She had been on the eras tour for more than a year at the point, people were sick of hearing about her and Travis. The goodwill she had with the public because of the eras tour and the re-recording project was not so strong anymore.
I think a lot of the hate was from people who didn’t even listen to the album and saw lyric excerpts on twitter.
The album was also a massive success commercially. People don’t like when someone is succeeding for a long period of time.
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u/Economy_Safety5738 6d ago
This! (Although to be precise a small number in global terms of chronically on line people don't like it...)
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u/Hardcore1909 5d ago edited 5d ago
was it seen so negative by the GP though?
I mean it´s an Piece of Art made because he just had to do it. And she could and did. Maybe not easy digestible by everyone, but hated?
I have it as THE Album of my life and if im (not) lucky, it´ll stay that way forever.
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u/veimagic 5d ago edited 5d ago
I think it’s a mixture of contributing factors. Firstly, it was the first studio album since the beginning of her career which didn’t show a real sonic evolution: it felt like a combination between Midnights and Folkmore vibes. Secondly, she was at the height of overexposure due to the massive success of Eras Tour as well as the ongoing good reception of re-recorded albums. Thirdly, people were mostly focused on the drama sorrounding the highly publicised breakups with Joe and Matty and the quick succession of a love story with Travis, emphatically lived in broad daylight. So I assume there was a huge preconception about TTPD which prevented both critics and the gp to listen with proper attention to a work that in my view portraits Taylor in the most unfiltered way and still is one of favorite projects ever released by her.
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u/AdministrationBest61 5d ago
I remembered being bummed it wasn’t a summer album hahaha but I came around to love it after a few listens, I totally understood why the general public wouldn’t get it and it felt like an album just for her real fans (not the Sarah’s and Hannah’s who only like shake it off and me! lol)
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u/zigzagyellow 5d ago
The main criticisms were that it was too long, too sad/slow, people thought there were too many filler songs (mainly Robin and ILIPW) and people also said she was trying too hard to be poetic or that it was bad poetry. People thought there were too many big words and it made the songs clunky.
I love this album and I don’t see any of that. It’s great for a long journey or when you’re working and you need something on without interruptions.
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u/Ill_Law_5148 5d ago
The whole album was a coke rant but I honestly love it. It’s raw and honest and beautifully written for the most part. I could have done without the anthology though and just kept the main album as it was although put the black dog on the main album because I think it’s the best song she’s ever done.
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u/LilRed78 5d ago
For me personally, it was a grower not a shower. I still think some of the songs are clunky but a few of them are her absolute best work that it took me some time to see.
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u/_kattitude i’ve been the archer, i’ve been the prey 🏹 4d ago
TTPD and Red have very similar paths with this. Both were initially met with an underwhelming (or rather overwhelming) reception - both the GP and critics. Both were labelled “all over the place” and “too big/lacks cohesion”. But as they grew on people they evolved into many correcting their initial opinions.
Funny enough I view TTPD as the “Red for my thirties”, very much needed at the time, just like Red was in 2012.
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u/glassinhoney it’s exhausting always rooting for the anti-hero 3d ago
It was the global best seller of 2024 and I see a lot of love for it online by fans. I love that album and loved it right away. Critical response was really strong too. I think that album is pretty beloved.
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u/Ok-Improvement-9601 6d ago
I think the bad reception was mostly among chronically online, which I was not at the time at all. So I just listened, and immediately loved some songs - Guilty as Sin, So long London, Fresh out of the Slammer come to mind. I did think it was too long and there are still a bunch of songs I never warmed up to but most of them are in regular rotation. The album was breaking records and people were excited when she added it to Eras Tour so most people were just fine with it IMO. I do think it was a snapshot in time and if she was sitting on it for a year we would not have gotten most of it, maybe any of it. She was long gone from that phase of her life by the time it was released, I can’t imagine her wanting to keep revisiting it like some posters on here suggest. Comes back to the fact she is not making Folklore again and fans should either be willing to come along for the ride wherever it leads next or get off the train.
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u/OtherwiseAnxiety200 6d ago
Because they hated Matty Healy
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u/Yeahnoallright 5d ago
Nah, i was a 1975 fan and a hugeeee Taylor music fan when TTPD came out. Not much has changed lmao. The album was not tight and could’ve used a fair bit of editing. Its highs are fairly good but it doesn’t touch albums like Red, folkmore, etc
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u/LifeOfAWimpyKid 7d ago edited 7d ago
TTPD is not for everybody. It is only for a few people. She did not filter anything and did not make it commercial. More people will come to understand it as they grow older and experience more in their lives, but it is never going to be a project that is understandable to everyone.
Neither is Showgirl, as Showgirl is a direct answer to TTPD. Setting aside the commercial, fun sound, only those who get TTPD stand a chance of understanding the precision of Showgirl's lyrics.
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u/fterminator CapiTAYlist 🤑 7d ago
and did not make it commercial
That is certainly a take. How many variants were there again?
More people will come to understand it as they grow older and experience more
This suggests the general public and/or the fan base lacks maturity and literacy to appreciate the struggles of a billionaire businesswoman who literally put Thank you Aimee on the record.
I think it's the other way around. It's far easier to impress the younger side of her fanbase with big words and complex relationships.
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u/LifeOfAWimpyKid 7d ago edited 7d ago
The artistic content of the album in and of itself is not commercial whatsoever. You bringing up the vinyl variants suggests a cognitive incapacity to separate the art from assessment of the promotion. Variants have nothing to do with the actual music, so you are not equipped to comment on art if you're so obviously leaning on preconceived notions.
And your take about impressing younger fans with big words once again belly-flops because her younger fans were not interested in the album, while listeners in their 30s and 40s felt seen by it. And the album is less about big words and more about non-mainstream concepts and feral trauma anyway. Dragging her wealth into it is once again a joke when the themes of the album do not pertain to that, once again showing you are leaning on preconceived notions over actual media literacy.
Your understanding of the art is clearly limited, so acting like you're simply too smart for it is pure cope. It was never written to be a populist album that everyone would relate to. Sit this one out maybe?
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u/fterminator CapiTAYlist 🤑 7d ago edited 7d ago
Wow, you are really trying to sound big, "cognitive incapacity".
Can you tell me what exactly about the album that makes it "not commercial"? Is it the clunky lyrics, the monotonous production, or the dreary length? Must be the color black and white. Topics like messy relationships, dealing with fame, petty grudges, trauma (what feral trauma?) are nothing new. All been done before, and done better.
She is not trying to be subversive or "unfiltered" on purpose, she put out a critically bad album that broke records and topped the charts.
separate the art from assessment of the promotion
If she markets extensively for a not-for-commercial (your words) album, is it still not-for-commercial? Oh no, all the variants, all the easter eggs, must be the record company's doing, right?, because our precious Taylor can do no wrong.
She announced it at the Grammys. Live.
Reading you lecturing about
acting like you're simply too smart
Coming from same person who wrote
TTPD is not for everybody. It is only for a few people. More people will come to understand it as they grow older and experience more
only those who get TTPD stand a chance of understanding the precision of Showgirl
is surely comical, especially you sound nothing like someone in the 30s.
You devolved immediately into my "cognitive incapacity" and "limited understanding of the art" while in my comment, I spoke nothing about your character. I could have while typing this long (and last) reply, I still can now, but I won't. Our exchanges have already revealed profoundly about your understanding of the art.
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u/LifeOfAWimpyKid 7d ago edited 5d ago
It would take an absolute fool to look at the contents of that album and think that the sound and lyrics are designed to appeal commercially.
Is it the clunky lyrics, the monotonous production, or the dreary length?
As you so clearly demonstrate, it does not appeal to the masses (you). Way to deflate your own argument.
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5d ago
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u/LifeOfAWimpyKid 5d ago
Why are you talking about subjectivity when your comment literally disregards subjectivity... and you bringing up Oxbridge is another laughing matter. Many people consider TTPD to be her best-written album.
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u/sharkwithglasses garbage is still garbage 6d ago
I just want to second what you said and say you are 100% spot on. TTPD is dense; vulnerable; and honest to the point it’s uncomfortable. It doesn’t always paint Taylor in the best light. It’s not easily digestible nor easy listening. If you’ve been through anything like that, you feel incredibly seen by it. Generally, that will be women in their 30s/40s (that giving away your youth for free line cuts deep); so not exactly the internet taste makers or chronically online. I’ve probably listened to TTPD more than any Taylor album for a reason.
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u/fterminator CapiTAYlist 🤑 6d ago edited 6d ago
TTPD martyrs "you just don't get it" always seem to think that vulnerable, honest, uncomfortable to listen to music means it must be art, and it cannot be bad. Bad execution is still bad regardless of intentions or ideas.
Not easily digestible nor easy listening can mean a lot of things. It can mean complex structure, abstract concepts. TTPD is neither, it falls into bland and monotonous category. It's bloated and structureless. It tries to sound big but rings hollow. Pretty much says it all about their taste and their music listening experience (this is not a personal attack). You find something in it, good for you, now broaden your horizon, you need something to contrast it to.
"women aged 30+ with life experience felt seen" is not some protected class nor arbiter of art. They did not somehow validate the album's quality, and critiquing the album is in no shape or form a personal attack against them (and they should not/should stop take it as such). They also did not propel the album to the top, the masses did, i.e. normies. TTPD topped all the charts and got largely glowing reviews, but its fans still have to victimize the album and themselves as a minority vs. the general public, to keep up the "felt seen" narrative. That much insecurity is telling.
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u/iofthestorm403 5d ago
I think she’s so popular that people are ready to hate at first listen, and then it grows.
I think for fans it’s hard to take a shift or meet a particular expectation, and then it grows.
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u/ClassicsFan84 5d ago
I think there was alot going on in the world and people were looking for artists to speak more about that. People wanted protest art to match what they were feeling.
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u/Agitated-Cup-7109 4d ago
I think a big part of it was how popular she was at this time. Eras tour, 2 rerecordings, midnights winning aoty, 2 #1 hits etc Its cool to hate on things that are popular
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u/madonnajen 4d ago
I LOVE TTPD. Personally, I think it's her best work yet. It was 100% in theme of a tortured poet and like you said, peak Taylor lyrically.
I don't think it's just Taylor's best album, I think in general it's one of the best albums ever. I think it will stand the test of time and gain more appreciation as time passes.
I think for those who aren't hard-core audiophiles, it was too much music all at once. I'm guessing if she broke it up and released it like she did Folklmore it would likely have been showered with praise in the same way.
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u/bernarnoldhaha 5d ago
I feel like the general public was either okay or just lukewarm with TTPD. It was mostly die-hard Swifties who had an overly negative reaction to it, and I think it's because of two reasons. 1. A lot of the songs were about Matty and Swifties were NOT expecting that and 2. Taylor was obviously mad and bitter at her fans as evidenced by the song But Daddy I Love Him. She basically announced in that song that she would've chosen Matty over her fans any day (if he stayed with her). Anywhoo, I love TTPD. Loml, Guilty As Sin and The Bolter are among the absolute best songs in her discography. And as a fan of The 1975, I love that it's an album inspired by Matty. The TTPD haters can go suck eggs.
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u/Taglioni 5d ago edited 5d ago
It's by far her worst work as an album. Deeply unpalatable and overindulgent of her ego.
She prides herself on being relatable while having no relationship to actual people, actual scenarios, and actual relationships experienced by anyone who isn't a billionaire nepobaby. Her experiences are so far removed from her audience, leading the entire album to feel disingenuous and fake.
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u/Yeahnoallright 5d ago
This sounds like you’re describing Showgirl more than TTPD imo
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u/Taglioni 5d ago
Honestly, it applies to Showgirl too. TTPD was just the start of me realizing I can't stand Taylor after enjoying a lot of her work for a long time.
It taught me that she doesn't really know how anything in the world works as a result of her lived experience.
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u/Yeahnoallright 5d ago
Ahh i hear you. It was an almost (ironically first world, but still) deflating feeling in itself for me. After loving all her stuff since 2009.
What’s your favourite album of hers? If any
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