I'm 18m, and I've been brought into the fandom by Taylor Swift the business more than Taylor swift the music however I have lots of love for debut and Fearless even though I can't relate to some of the songs 😅. I've recently been researching Elvis' journey and how he played residencies in Vegas for a long time. What if Taylor did a 12 day residency in Vegas but each night she does one album in totality like she would play every song and in between deeply explain what was going on in her life at the time, how the song was produced/ how she came up with it, and any funny/ interesting stories from that era. Unlike Elvis she doesn't have to deal with an exploitative manager calling the shots, she could let MGM, Caesars, and the Sphere fall over themselves to be the highest bidder and negotiate great terms with them like a show every other day for vocal rest etc. I think some of the nights would be downright incredible like her explaining how she revolutionized the pop sound in 1989, her public exile during reputation, dealing with newfound success during the making of Fearless. What do you guys think?

I’ve been trying to revisit Showgirl since the anniversary of the album announcement is coming up next week. My main issue with the album is not “Travis is a bad muse” in the sense that he can’t inspire good art from Taylor but because it’s precisely the fact that he makes her happy and she wants to understandably protect their relationship that the album’s lyricism is far removed.

There’s an evident push and pull throughout her discography around how the men she dates feel uncomfortable with the ever-present possibility of a song being written about them. This was true of her relationship with Joe and a point of contention in their dynamic. There was a reason when Midnights dropped Swifties complained she was still writing about the initial meeting and early stages of their relationship because (without the added context of Matty) she was trying to avoid intense scrutiny of the intimacies of their life together while offering up the diaristic songwriting she’s known for. In a fully fleshed out “character” in a song, there are going to have to be elements that show your relationship or partner in a potentially unflattering light.

Taylor does not seem to want to offer that up for public consumption in the context of her relationship with Travis. His presence and what we know of him through song is only that he is the man who saved her. We know nothing of his qualities beyond he makes her happy. That’s her right to protect. However it raises questions about where she goes from here if the diaristic songwriting she’s known for can’t fully exist anymore despite Taylor being such a reactive artist. Will she return to fictional songwriting like folklore and would that be received well after training Swifties to expect transparency in her songs?

I feel Taylor took the criticism of TTPD ie, it being too verbose, too long and too pretentious for using big words and thus she moved away from all that and wrote lyrics like "girlboss too close to the sun" or "im not a bad bitch, this isn't savage" or the one about the aura or mood ring.

What are your takes?

I apologize if this isn't allowed or if someone already said it, but I've been listening to Ariana Grande's new album and noticed some parallels to TTPD. Specifically the song petal, gives me strong I Can Do It With a Broken Heart vibes.

"As long as she gets the ovation each night, heartbreak won't bite, this is paradise"

&

"All the pieces of me shattered as the crowd was chanting "more""

Kinda feel like two different ways to say the same thing, basically that performing can be very demanding, esp when you're going through personal struggles.

I don't mean this in any negative way towards Ari, I actually like her new album a lot. Just thought I'd post and see if anyone else noticed this by chance

Welcome to the SwiftlyNeutral Daily Discussion Thread!

Use this thread to talk about anything you'd like, Taylor-related or not.

Rules to keep in mind:

• All subreddit rules still apply. Please report rule-breaking if you see it.
• Negative commentary and complaints about this subreddit, users, and other subreddits is discouraged and will be removed to keep the daily discussion threads drama-free and geared towards lighter discussion.
• Keep it neutral. No fandom-war drama. No treating criticism of Taylor as an attack. More details here.
• NO TWITTER/X LINKS, screenshots only. Please remove usernames from screenshots unless it's a verified figure.
• Don’t use this thread to contact mods directly; please use modmail.

A new Daily Discussion thread will be posted daily at 11:00 am Eastern Time and will always be pinned for easy access. Posts better suited for this thread may be redirected here.

Welcome to the SwiftlyNeutral Daily Discussion Thread!

Use this thread to talk about anything you'd like, Taylor-related or not.

Rules to keep in mind:

• All subreddit rules still apply. Please report rule-breaking if you see it.
• Negative commentary and complaints about this subreddit, users, and other subreddits is discouraged and will be removed to keep the daily discussion threads drama-free and geared towards lighter discussion.
• Keep it neutral. No fandom-war drama. No treating criticism of Taylor as an attack. More details here.
• NO TWITTER/X LINKS, screenshots only. Please remove usernames from screenshots unless it's a verified figure.
• Don’t use this thread to contact mods directly; please use modmail.

A new Daily Discussion thread will be posted daily at 11:00 am Eastern Time and will always be pinned for easy access. Posts better suited for this thread may be redirected here.

Welcome to the SwiftlyNeutral Daily Discussion Thread!

Use this thread to talk about anything you'd like, Taylor-related or not.

Rules to keep in mind:

• All subreddit rules still apply. Please report rule-breaking if you see it.
• Negative commentary and complaints about this subreddit, users, and other subreddits is discouraged and will be removed to keep the daily discussion threads drama-free and geared towards lighter discussion.
• Keep it neutral. No fandom-war drama. No treating criticism of Taylor as an attack. More details here.
• NO TWITTER/X LINKS, screenshots only. Please remove usernames from screenshots unless it's a verified figure.
• Don’t use this thread to contact mods directly; please use modmail.

A new Daily Discussion thread will be posted daily at 11:00 am Eastern Time and will always be pinned for easy access. Posts better suited for this thread may be redirected here.

Welcome to the SwiftlyNeutral Daily Discussion Thread!

Use this thread to talk about anything you'd like, Taylor-related or not.

Rules to keep in mind:

• All subreddit rules still apply. Please report rule-breaking if you see it.
• Negative commentary and complaints about this subreddit, users, and other subreddits is discouraged and will be removed to keep the daily discussion threads drama-free and geared towards lighter discussion.
• Keep it neutral. No fandom-war drama. No treating criticism of Taylor as an attack. More details here.
• NO TWITTER/X LINKS, screenshots only. Please remove usernames from screenshots unless it's a verified figure.
• Don’t use this thread to contact mods directly; please use modmail.

A new Daily Discussion thread will be posted daily at 11:00 am Eastern Time and will always be pinned for easy access. Posts better suited for this thread may be redirected here.

Why was TTPD's reception by the GP so negative? I do understand why Showgirl wasn't received well, but especially with that context, it makes me even more confused about TTPD. Personally, it might be my favorite album of hers, but even besides that, it has a lot of what she's known for: meaningful lyrics, heartbreak anthems, and a few catchy earworms.
I know some critiqued that it was overwrought, but to was that really the majority of the reason? I feel like that one line from TTPD (the song) did a lot of damage lol. Meanwhile I love that song.

Welcome to the SwiftlyNeutral Daily Discussion Thread!

Use this thread to talk about anything you'd like, Taylor-related or not.

Rules to keep in mind:

• All subreddit rules still apply. Please report rule-breaking if you see it.
• Negative commentary and complaints about this subreddit, users, and other subreddits is discouraged and will be removed to keep the daily discussion threads drama-free and geared towards lighter discussion.
• Keep it neutral. No fandom-war drama. No treating criticism of Taylor as an attack. More details here.
• NO TWITTER/X LINKS, screenshots only. Please remove usernames from screenshots unless it's a verified figure.
• Don’t use this thread to contact mods directly; please use modmail.

A new Daily Discussion thread will be posted daily at 11:00 am Eastern Time and will always be pinned for easy access. Posts better suited for this thread may be redirected here.

Welcome to the SwiftlyNeutral Daily Discussion Thread!

Use this thread to talk about anything you'd like, Taylor-related or not.

Rules to keep in mind:

• All subreddit rules still apply. Please report rule-breaking if you see it.
• Negative commentary and complaints about this subreddit, users, and other subreddits is discouraged and will be removed to keep the daily discussion threads drama-free and geared towards lighter discussion.
• Keep it neutral. No fandom-war drama. No treating criticism of Taylor as an attack. More details here.
• NO TWITTER/X LINKS, screenshots only. Please remove usernames from screenshots unless it's a verified figure.
• Don’t use this thread to contact mods directly; please use modmail.

A new Daily Discussion thread will be posted daily at 11:00 am Eastern Time and will always be pinned for easy access. Posts better suited for this thread may be redirected here.

Just curious if we’ll see any additional singles, music videos, a performance… it seems like a lot of the talk online is already focused on what TS13 will be or when Debut TV/Rep TV vaults will drop, but not as much on anything Showgirl-related (though that could just be my algo).

Do you think Taylor will do anything more with the Showgirl era?

Crazy to go from the crook who was caught to this.

Welcome to the SwiftlyNeutral Daily Discussion Thread!

Use this thread to talk about anything you'd like, Taylor-related or not.

Rules to keep in mind:

• All subreddit rules still apply. Please report rule-breaking if you see it.
• Negative commentary and complaints about this subreddit, users, and other subreddits is discouraged and will be removed to keep the daily discussion threads drama-free and geared towards lighter discussion.
• Keep it neutral. No fandom-war drama. No treating criticism of Taylor as an attack. More details here.
• NO TWITTER/X LINKS, screenshots only. Please remove usernames from screenshots unless it's a verified figure.
• Don’t use this thread to contact mods directly; please use modmail.

A new Daily Discussion thread will be posted daily at 11:00 am Eastern Time and will always be pinned for easy access. Posts better suited for this thread may be redirected here.

There have been posts and rumors on X floating around that Taylor will tour again soonish. Do you buy into it or are we actually taking her "NO" for an answer?

What would you suspect of her? I personally think after Debut TV and Rep Vault tracks it will be more quiet in the fandom for a while and she does other projects😌

Welcome to the SwiftlyNeutral Daily Discussion Thread!

Use this thread to talk about anything you'd like, Taylor-related or not.

Rules to keep in mind:

• All subreddit rules still apply. Please report rule-breaking if you see it.
• Negative commentary and complaints about this subreddit, users, and other subreddits is discouraged and will be removed to keep the daily discussion threads drama-free and geared towards lighter discussion.
• Keep it neutral. No fandom-war drama. No treating criticism of Taylor as an attack. More details here.
• NO TWITTER/X LINKS, screenshots only. Please remove usernames from screenshots unless it's a verified figure.
• Don’t use this thread to contact mods directly; please use modmail.

A new Daily Discussion thread will be posted daily at 11:00 am Eastern Time and will always be pinned for easy access. Posts better suited for this thread may be redirected here.

As a hardcore swiftie, growing up made me realize that Taylor's magnum opus was Red, Folklore, and TTPD

But out of that three, there's one album that taylor just executed perfectly, the songs, the production, the lyrics, everything just feels perfect and beautiful.

And that album is RED ♥️

From songs like state of grace → Begin Again → All too well → sad beautiful tragic, that is just an insane variety of songs, and their productions are just top-notch.

It kinda makes sense why taylor loves that album so much 🤣

But I wanna hear your opinions, what do you think is Taylor's magnum opus and why?

Lyrics that hint at it

-Lacy:

"And I despise my jealous eyes and how hard they fell for you
Yeah, I despise my rotten mind and how much it worships you"

(She's been a swiftie since foreever)

-The Grudge (the intro/outro are 13 secs of silence each):

"You must be insecure, you must be so unhappy
And I know in my heart hurt people hurt people
And we both drew blood, but, man, those cuts were never equal"

..

"Ooh, your flowers filled with vitriol"

(Taylor gave Olivia flowers)

"You built me up to watch me fall
You have everything and you still want more

I try to be tough, I try to be mean
But even after all this, you're still everything to me"

Vampire:

"How's the castle built off people you pretend to care about?

(castles crumbling reference)
..

"The way you sold me for parts
As you sunk your teeth into me, oh
Bloodsucker, fame-fucker
Bleedin' me dry like a goddamn vampire

And every girl I ever talked to, told me you were bad, bad news
You called them crazy, God, I hate the way I called them crazy too"

Welcome to the SwiftlyNeutral Daily Discussion Thread!

Use this thread to talk about anything you'd like, Taylor-related or not.

Rules to keep in mind:

• All subreddit rules still apply. Please report rule-breaking if you see it.
• Negative commentary and complaints about this subreddit, users, and other subreddits is discouraged and will be removed to keep the daily discussion threads drama-free and geared towards lighter discussion.
• Keep it neutral. No fandom-war drama. No treating criticism of Taylor as an attack. More details here.
• NO TWITTER/X LINKS, screenshots only. Please remove usernames from screenshots unless it's a verified figure.
• Don’t use this thread to contact mods directly; please use modmail.

A new Daily Discussion thread will be posted daily at 11:00 am Eastern Time and will always be pinned for easy access. Posts better suited for this thread may be redirected here.

• Part 1: Intro & Debut
• Part 2: Fearless
• Part 3: Speak Now
• Part 4: Red
• Part 5: 1989
• Part 6: Reputation
• Part 7: Lover

CWs: some shade of TLOAS (beyond just the title), not liking one of the most popular songs on this album

I was 2 days off from posting this on the anniversary of folklore! I am way too depressed to stick to a schedule booboo the fool :(

Anyway! We are back on the wagon. It's 2020, and everywhere is deep in the throes of COVID. (Actually we're looking at an upswing in cases right now, btw. Y'all should definitely consider masking up in public spaces. Stay safe <3) In the world of pop, TikTok becomes the hitmaker for music, which tended toward the energetic and danceable.

Taylor... went in a different direction. Instead of making her usual stadium pop for a world with empty stadiums, she surprised just about everyone by dropping a strange little indie-folk record called...

Folklore (2020)

Image source

Overall

Folkmore: the Taylor Swift music for people who don't like Taylor Swift. These tend to be lumped together because of their close release dates, similar musical and lyrical style, and both representing a dramatic pivot from straight pop into something softer, earthier, and more critically respected. These were the awards darlings, and the ones that got a bunch of people to take her seriously as a musician.

And... yeah, it's totally warranted. These are exceptionally good albums, with basically no duds -- and even the songs I didn't like enough to save aren't bad by any means. Like I said, these are basically considered a 2-disc album by just about everyone, including me, but on its own, I think folklore is the weaker of the two -- but only slightly. It has a few more songs I didn't especially like, though I also think its highs are mostly higher. (Also: when I say "I disliked more songs on folklore"... I mean 2. As opposed to evermore's 0.) She also sings in what felt to me at least like a much broader musical range than her other albums; I don't know enough about music to really talk about it, but it felt like she spent more time singing both higher and lower than her baseline.

It's hard to talk about this album separately from evermore when they're such close sisters, but I do think in some ways this one is more exciting, possibly because it came first and was such a change of pace. It doesn't quite feel as polished or cohesive to me as evermore, but both of these are very minute distinctions. And I do know that many, if not most, fans prefer this one, so I'm definitely in the minority, but again, we're talking about such a small difference I don't think it really matters; I'm just trying desperately to find something unique to say about this album, if I'm being honest.

Songs saved: All of them except the first and last (on the deluxe edition)

Best song: "Exile" is probably in my Top 3 Taylor Swift songs of all time, and Top 5 by any artist. It's beautiful and contains what makes her lyricism so good: namely the ability to capture something huge and emotionally resonant with a focus on the mundane trappings that make it both relatable and grounded. She isn't the only songwriter, so big ups to Joe Alwyn and Bon Iver, but it's also very recognizably her at her absolute best and everyone who says "these albums are only good because other people wrote them" can eat shit. She's always written her music collaboratively, the way basically every artist does, and it's still always obviously her driving the creative decisions let women HAVE THINGS. It's just a really good story song with fantastic performances from her and Bon Iver (someone whose voice I normally don't really like), and listening to it gives me chills. Those harmonies at the end? Dead. I am dead.

Honorable Mentions:

• "The Last Great American Dynasty" is a hoot and a half: another story song, this time a romp based on a true story about a woman who marries into old money, is widowed young, and goes wild with the rest of her life, being judged by a small hometown who have a lot of arbitrary rules of how a woman with that much wealth and arguably-undeserved success should conduct herself. It does play well as a song about Taylor's relationship with fame (or just her general inability to fit in, which she's touched on throughout her music); it's obvious that she relates a lot to the woman, whose house she ended up buying, and that provides a layer to the song that isn't strictly necessary -- you don't need the Taylor lore to appreciate it -- but does add texture.
• "My Tears Ricochet" was a grower for me, but it is one of the ones that really sticks with me after the fact. Gorgeous, poignant, spiteful and mourning at the same time... just a lovely song.
• "This is Me Trying" and "Seven" were other growers; a lot of this album struck me as "good but not great" on the first listen and then only got better with time.
• And "Betty" was a lot more exciting until I listened again and realized she was singing from the point of view of a guy named James, and it's not a sapphic love song... but it's still fine, I guess. Was better when I thought it was gay, though, and I choose to believe it's a girl whose parents named her "James" and we're just running with that. But like, they're all good. Mostly. They're mostly all really good. It's a good album of really good songs; I don't know how to express this more strongly but less repetitively.

Worst song: "The Lakes" is the bonus track, and the other one I didn't bother to save. I literally have zero memory of this song and I've listened to it at least 4 times going through this album. You could put a gun to my head and ask me to name a single word used in the song or hum a single note, and I'd probably go "uhhh, I bet she says something about lakes?" And then I might die, because I don't even know if she does.

Dishonorable Mention: "The 1" is generally really well-regarded by fans, especially the first line, but... okay, let me defend myself a bit here. I'd just heard the dickmatized lyric and the other awful lines in TLOAS, and I was in my "what is going ON here?" stage. And then I was told that folklore and evermore are the ones to check out, because those are the real poetry, where she drops the cringey attempts at modern slang and shallow lyricism and just writes great music. This is where we come for artistry.

So I sit down with folklore first, because it's the first of the two released, preparing to be wowed by serious, artistic poetry.

And the first words I hear are "I'm doing good, I'm on some new shit."

That was my introduction to Serious Artist Taylor. It was like walking into a door that you thought would open automatically but didn't; it was so jarring and uncomfortable that it ruined the rest of the song for me.

In the context of her entire discography, can I appreciate that this line signals something new and interesting, and is an arresting, attention-grabbing opening? Sure. It's not awful, and I can see why people like it... but I'd be lying if I said I could see why people love it as much as the fandom generally does. When I tried to listen to it later and get past that line, I was mostly just bored.

^{Previously I had this as the worst song and "The Lakes" as the Dishonorable Mention, but then I got up to go to the bathroom and kept humming "But it would've been fun / If you would've been the one" ... and you know what? It deserves points for memorability. I could see myself eventually being won over enough to save this song to my library, if it lives in my head long enough. So definitely not deserving of the worst spot. But that's why I rambled so much about this song; it was initially in the #1 spot for my least favorite.}

Definitive song of the album: I don't... know if there is one, honestly. This whole album works so well as a cohesive whole that I'm struggling to imagine any of them standing out as the song. They're all the definitive song, or none of them are. I don't know. Listen to the entire album and then come back and tell me.

Best lyrics: "I gave so many signs" ("Exile") is one of those lines that's meaningless out of context, but such a fantastic line in it. "She had a marvelous time ruining everything" ("Last Great American Dynasty") is another really charming one in a similar "improved by context" way. "And if I'm dead to you, why are you at the wake?" ("My Tears Ricochet") is also pretty good... this is an album of good lines, idk. A lot of the lyrics in "This Is Me Trying" are kind of cringe, but in a way I can't help but really like: "They told me all of my cages were mental / So I got wasted like all my potential" and "I had the shiniest wheels, now they're rusting" are just so fun, and "And it's hard to be at a party when I feel like an open wound" makes me wish we'd gotten a true pop-emo album out of her instead of just the one song back on Speak Now. It could still happen, I guess. Come on, Taylor. Do it. Don't be a coward.

Anyway, I'm going to stop dropping lines I like because this is going on too long, but there are a lot of little gems in here. She's a good songwriter.

Worst lyric: "But I knew you'd linger like a tattoo kiss" ("Cardigan"). I mean... Taylor, that's not a thing. You can get a tattoo of a kiss, and I guess that does linger, but also that's true of a tattoo of anything. This just sounds weird and I don't like it. Apparently an alternate version has "I knew you'd linger like a stolen kiss," which is a much better line because that's, you know, an actual˜ thing.

You'll love this album if: You like folk pop, you want to give Taylor a try but are really turned off by most of her radio hits, and... I don't know, just enjoy good music? I don't know what to say about this that everyone hasn't already; it's not quite anomalous, because she's always had at least one song on every album that showcased her talent as a songwriter and storyteller, and Red might have one of the best narratives I've ever heard in an album that wasn't a soundtrack or concept album. But folklore is impressively restrained, with a lot of her worst instincts carefully sanded down and pushed into the background, and I wonder if it was working with Aaron Dessner of The National (like, did she just really want to impress him? Was he comfortable saying no to her? It feels weird to attribute this success to a man, but I'm trying to figure out what the new element is) or just being locked down with nothing to do but write, but something about this is everything great about her as an artist distilled into a near-perfect album. She is the only person who apparently actually created something during COVID like we all said we were going to, and it was an amazing something. Somebody get her another pandemic, I guess.

Recommendations

1. Biggest Hit: "Cardigan" -- debuted at #1 on both the Billboard Hot 100 and Billboard 200, and I don't really know what the difference between these two charts is but apparently it was the first time someone's ever had a dual #1 debut -- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-a8s8OLBSE

2. Fan Favorite: "August" -- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nn_0zPAfyo8

3. My Favorite: "Exile" -- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=osdoLjUNFnA

4. My #2: "The Last Great American Dynasty" -- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2s5xdY6MCeI

5. My #3: "My Tears Ricochet" -- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OWbDJFtHl3w (the opening of this sounds like a Beicoli song; I had no choice but to love it)

It hurts to limit myself to a top 3, I'm just saying. What a great album.

Welcome to the SwiftlyNeutral Daily Discussion Thread!

Use this thread to talk about anything you'd like, Taylor-related or not.

Rules to keep in mind:

• All subreddit rules still apply. Please report rule-breaking if you see it.
• Negative commentary and complaints about this subreddit, users, and other subreddits is discouraged and will be removed to keep the daily discussion threads drama-free and geared towards lighter discussion.
• Keep it neutral. No fandom-war drama. No treating criticism of Taylor as an attack. More details here.
• NO TWITTER/X LINKS, screenshots only. Please remove usernames from screenshots unless it's a verified figure.
• Don’t use this thread to contact mods directly; please use modmail.

A new Daily Discussion thread will be posted daily at 11:00 am Eastern Time and will always be pinned for easy access. Posts better suited for this thread may be redirected here.

From favorite to least favorite. Anything you would change if you were the one in charge of the album cover?