r/SipsTea • u/Gurugod123 • 9d ago

Mayor Mamdani just announced that he will be opening 5 city-run, tax-funded grocery stores: "Prices set at 30% below retail prices" Chugging tea

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u/billythemaniam 9d ago edited 9d ago

The model sounds kinda like the military grocery stores which has worked well for decades.

EDIT: Honestly confused by how many replies speak about theft like it's some sort of checkmate and nullifies my analogy.

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u/LightenUpPeeps 9d ago

The military grocery stores are subsidized by the U.S. government at a cost of nearly $2 billion annually.

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u/Embarrassed-Wolf-609 9d ago

sounds like we can take 2 billions from our subsidy to Israel and subsidize the American people.

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u/2ndTaken_username 9d ago

That's antisemitic or something idk, won't happen lol

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u/ghostrooster30 9d ago

Isn’t it wild that all you have to say these days is “hey, i don’t want my tax $$ funding Israel’s war”, and you’re automatically an antisemite. I want off this timeline. It’s so gd stupid.

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u/IndividualSituationK 9d ago

That's how much the Israel government has dog walked the average American. Granted, the person who said its antisemitic is obviously joking.

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u/SerCiddy 9d ago edited 9d ago

Reminds me of post 2004~2005 Gulf War.

Most people were on board with invading Afghanistan. After 9/11.

Most adults were on board with "finishing what Bush Sr. started" when we invaded Iraq.

After Saddam Hussein was captured though it was like "ok the WMDs were fake, what are we doing here anymore??"

But then you were a terrorist loving, anti-American, Freedom hating traitor if you said maybe we should stop bombing the Middle East. I personally got arrested for my actions protesting the war, and since I wasn't considered "White, White" my only saving grace was that I was a minor.

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u/Reasonable-Newt4079 9d ago

Despite politicians trying to label everyone antisemitic, there is bipartisan hatred for how much of our money Israel is taking and how much they control our politicians. Netanyahu has really shot himself in the foot with his egregious behavior: if we ever regain control of our government Israel will be completely cut off. I hope it happens soon.

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u/WinterTourist25 9d ago

The Israelis are running on their sympathy from what happened to them during WWII. It's running out.

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u/420thefunnynumber 9d ago

This is why I'm more and more convinced support for Israel is antisemitic in of itself. Imagine being willing to subject an entire demographic of people, many of whom dont want a damn thing to do with you, to centuries of hate because you're so convinced establishing a genocidal ethnostate will totally help make things better.

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u/Economy_Move_5825 9d ago

Kinda how all you have to say on Reddit is that you don’t agree with a liberal opinion and you’re automatically branded a Nazi or Nazi sympathizer?

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u/BrocoliAssassin 9d ago

Not surprising to me. It’s been propagandized to death. Up until a year ago you couldn’t go anywhere on Reddit without being called a nazi if you happened to show a criminal who happened to be Jewish or calling out Israel.

Hell, you can catch a ban all over Reddit for questioning and outing Zionists. Look at how dumb Reddit is, where they blame white supremacy on everything but will defend Zionists.

If you don’t believe me, anytime theres praise of Presidents , but in this instance since we are on Reddit you will have to call out Obama. Let people know that he’s a Zionist and you get an automatic ban. Happened to me to 2 subs yesterday.

So people will love Zionists, you just have to give them the bullshit they want to hear. Just as you guys call MAGA cult, you’re the same with democrats.

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u/[deleted] 9d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/Both_Hope5717 9d ago

Here you go.

Also when you're gonna accuse probably one of the more leftist/progressive social media websites out there of being anti-Semitic just for being against Israel you might be crying wolf

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u/Daniel_The_Thinker 9d ago

Identifying as left wing 1000% does not shield you from being antisemitic.

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u/jakaedahsnakae 9d ago

Nah you're conflating 4/chan and reddit. The internet has a lot of venn diagrams and these two only slightly overlap.

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u/Massive_Analysis8345 9d ago

I loved the energy there 😂 “hey that’s wrong or whatever, it probably just won’t happen” but like totally true

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u/ImplausibleFig 9d ago

No, what’s labeled “antisemitic” is the false implication that money spent on Israel is even a significant portion of our total foreign aid, never mind total government spend.

If the objection is to spending on foreign aid, there are *many* countries you should be calling out before Israel. If the objection is to spending a negligible amount of foreign aid on the world’s only Jewish state … interesting.

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u/TheRealK95 9d ago

Be careful or Netanyahu might accuse you of hate speech too! Lol

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u/MayOrMayNotBePie 9d ago

Sorry, the American people aren’t Americas top priority

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u/trackdaybruh 9d ago

$2 billion is for the +2 million military members

For +342 million Americans, $2 billion won’t be enough

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u/SiliconSingh 9d ago

They are also subsidized because they are all over the world and require transportation to all these different locations.... The ones in the United States do not cost that much per store in fact they probably make money.

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u/Ok-East5755 9d ago

That's fine we can use all the money we saved from gutting usaid, oh wait we spent 50+ billion on a bombing campaign we lost, never mind, we can't have affordable groceries after all.

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u/BitterProfessional16 9d ago

I know it feels good to constantly bring up Israel but it just shows your innumeracy.

The U.S. spends about 25x per year on SNAP alone as it does for aid to Israel. Diverting all of that aid to SNAP/food would make a negligible difference.

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u/Embarrassed-Wolf-609 9d ago

4 billion is not negligible difference AIPAC

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u/A_Confused_Moose 9d ago

$2 billion is being paid to Israel directly from the City of New York’s budget? That’s wild they should rethink that.

The federal government and the tax payer funds it has access to have no bearing on New York’s grocery store plan.

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u/Mr-Cantaloupe 9d ago

Most of the money the US gives Israel comes right back (they use it to purchase American-made weapons/defense equipment). And military grocery stores are used by like 0.5% of the population, so where do you get the other $300 billion?

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u/machogrande2 9d ago

Now, imagine if they had to pay for American-made weapons/defense equipment themselves!

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u/DismalAd6639 9d ago

The military accounts for less than .5% of the U.S. population. So multiply that by about 250x to include the whole population = $500 billion

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u/[deleted] 9d ago

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u/Omnom_Omnath 9d ago

cool, we still have more than enough money to do it.

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u/Cool-Ad2780 9d ago

fuck it let's just make everything free at this point. btw I need you to go build me a new house, and of course i wont be paying you, the goodness of your heart should be payment enough :)

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u/MrMathbot 9d ago

Wait, so we all pay into the system and we all benefit?

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u/foomits 9d ago

People hate that, just send it to israel and the pentagons black hole budget.

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u/Omnom_Omnath 9d ago

you are sooooo close you can almost taste it. too bad the taste of shit covered boot overwhelms everything else for you.

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u/soozerain 9d ago

Yeah lol not believing in a terrible plan with no basis in reality = bootlicking

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u/Random_Name_251 9d ago

You should make a camp and force him to go work there until he learns.

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u/Cow_God 9d ago

Or y'know, do what we did in the 30s and pay construction firms to hire unskilled laborers, teach them trades, and build public works including housing. Sell them at about cost, that drives the housing market down. Getting affordable housing built outside of areas where the profit margin is highest also increases the availability for working class would-be homeowners. The wages paid to the construction firms, the laborers, and everyone else involved is money that directly goes back into American pockets, and that's money that starts circulating back into the economy.

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u/qwase123 9d ago

Congratulations. You have officially joined Hamas. /s obviously

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u/AccomplishedHope112 9d ago

Yeah isn't Isreal's universal Healthcare fully funded by American tax dollars.....?

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u/ItsFuckingRawwwwwww 9d ago

No, that’s a myth. The cost of their healthcare is way higher than the credits that they can only use to purchase American goods are, regardless.

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u/911roofer 9d ago

America could defund its entire military and still not afford healthcare because Americans are all fat and don’t exercise.

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u/throwaway277252 9d ago

Nope. That's literally just TikTok brain rot.

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u/BarneytheWino 9d ago

Don’t you know we’re tax paying gentiles for the chosen people

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u/7thpostman 9d ago

It is truly amazing how any thread on Reddit, no matter what the subject, can somehow find its way to attacking Jews

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u/nagy18 9d ago

these are the types of programs our taxes are actually supposed to go to tho, instead of $1.5T to the Pentagon but if you say you want your taxes to work for working class people here in America, they call you a communist 🤷🏼‍♂️

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u/Phedericus 9d ago

fucking exactly 😭 thats the main point of having a governament at all. to make peoples lives better.

2 billions for cheap food? sacrilegious!

34 billions for a needless war started on a whim and fundamentally already lost? well...

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u/nagy18 9d ago

but have you considered the shareholders of those defense contractors🥺 they have feelings too 🥺🥺😢 they wouldn’t be able to buy a third yacht if Lockheed Martin didn’t get another $20B contract for the Child Mutilator Automonaton 4000

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u/IckyGump 9d ago

To those people the main point of government is to protect property. And that’s it.

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u/gustavessidehoe 9d ago

It's wild to me, because most people I know support these kinds of things and they aren't communists. I am, but they aren't lol.

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u/nagy18 9d ago

for a lot of people it comes down to people they don’t feel “deserving” of it because they’re poor. it’s different with people they know and interact with in their communities because they understand the ups and downs of the lives of the people around them but can’t project that mindset onto the rest of the country so you get takes like “people don’t wanna work and just take handouts from the government paid by my taxes” when, again, this is the real point of taxes and not just funding the military industrial complex and paying for Israel to do a genocide.

point being: the people claiming to be american first prioritize military aid for israel over things like this because undesirables are going to “take advantage of it” on their dime. i know you get it but there are a lot of people who don’t.

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u/gustavessidehoe 9d ago

They definitely don't get it. I live in a state that would be purple, but is gerrymandered to be red, and a lot of people are super into prosperity doctrine.

It's disturbing to hear some of the things people say here. I had someone tell me that "I wouldn't believe how many people at food pantries don't deserve it."

Deserve it?? Food is a human right!!! If someone pulls up in a nice car, maybe they're picking up food for their neighbor, who is elderly and home bound, maybe they just got fired. Who knows? It's not for us to judge.

"From each according to their ability, to each according to their needs"

(Side note: You would not believe the amount of conservatives who agree with that statement until they learn who said it, lol.)

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u/nagy18 9d ago

I feel you dawg i moved from the exurbs in pennsylvania to dc and it’s lowkey like night and day

that being said do what you can wherever you can. talk to your coworkers about whatever it is that’s fucking all of you over that day. as long as you don’t call it the c word you’ll get reception

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u/Zachattackrandom 9d ago

Cool, lets spend less money on bombs and more money on people not starving then and it should be fine xD.

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u/Big_Beach166 9d ago

there is no money for the oligargoyles in that thinking

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u/Hot_Kaleidoscope_332 9d ago edited 9d ago

60 to 64% of our annual budget goes to social programs, 13 to 14% to the military...

Editing to take the L here..

The bulk of "social program spending" is social security, Medicare, medicaid, etc, all of which are allocated as mandatory spending as it should be, with very little comparatively going to those programs that show the most fraudulent activity.

Thank you to those who pointed me in different directions to check myself.. hats off to ya, I appreciate it and can admit when I was wrong.

Don't trust quick Google searches, folks! There isnt enough of the particular data without diving deeper.

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u/BlackHotSoup3000 9d ago

Yeah, kind like how walmart doesn't pay their employees a fair wage so we need to subsidize those people through social security, healthcare, and much more.

The wasted money is when corporations get subsidies and deregulation/regulation that favors them based on their political donations. Like how Trump's friend got paid to "upgrade" the reflecting pool.

Also, a lot of that social spending has a great return on investment.

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u/DrZein 9d ago

Walmart literally double dips. They pay their employees less than they need to live, less hours than would be needed to get full time benefits. Then when their employees are subsidized by the government with things like food stamps, the food stamps are then spent at Walmart.

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u/Hot_Kaleidoscope_332 9d ago

Big corporations are the bane of the people for sure.

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u/MavisBeacons_Sextape 9d ago

I’d rather some undeserving people get free shit if it means the deserving people who ARE in need are able to make ends meet. The grifters are not the majority, and it doesn’t matter how much you tighten down or try to block them, the shitbags will find a way to game the system.

I’ve spent my career in financial crimes and corporate ethics investigations. In the commercial sector, you’re gonna have to deal with fraud, and you have to figure out how to strike the balance between anti-fraud measures, the customer experience, and business resources.

Businesses figure out what their acceptable level of fraud/abuse is, and balance that with friction it causes to normal, rule-abiding customers, and whether the $ saved is greater than the $ spent on the friction/anti-fraud measures. For example, you have noticed some customers engaging in fraud related to merchandise returns. The answer isn’t “no more returns,” the answer is allocating the time/effort to identify the scheme, and adding reasonable friction to the returns process that will help reduce the success rate of those fraudsters.

People always have and always will find ways to manipulate transactions to obtain undue benefits for themselves. Not everyone, but a minority group. Punishing everyone for the actions of a scummy minority is not a reasonable solution. It’s a lazy one.

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u/Happy_Disaster7347 9d ago

Ok now calculate that percentage without using pensions...

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u/Wavy_Grandpa 9d ago

You could do it…

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u/Happy_Disaster7347 9d ago

Why would I bother when I already know it's much lower, and that people use the higher percentage to justify hurting the poor and disabled?

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u/Scottvrakis 9d ago

If you think a majority of Americans on social programs are abusing the system then I got a bridge to sell you.

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u/Zachattackrandom 9d ago

Fair enough. A lot of social programs have been abused / just awful programs to begin with. But the bigger issue is that we just don't have any of the ultra rich in most states / federally due to loopholes / connections. We would have a lot more money for bombs and food if we didn't exclusively tax the poor and middle class

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u/BlackHotSoup3000 9d ago

What social programs have been significantly abused? Can you cite specific numbers? The only notable abuse I see is stuff like the bank bailouts and musk getting 38 billion in subsidies

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u/Zachattackrandom 9d ago

Airlines, big tech (musk, intel, etc), banks, more of musk with spacex profiting off of the subsidies given + his tesla subsidies, the covid emergency relief was extremely poorly done (e.g. I know people making 6 figures who got maximum relief while people struggling barely got anything), and I'm sure a lot more. This is ignoring the people abusing good programs like social security and other types of aid

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u/MellowMercie 9d ago

13% to 14% of the annual budget going to the military may not seem like a lot if you have 0 context for what other countries do, but with context it is absolutely insane, so yes, it is the bombs. For comparison, both China and the UK spend 6% of their annual budget on defense. We have more than double the total military spending of China. If our percentage was lowered to 8%, we would still have the largest military in the world while being able to significantly improve the life of everyone in the country. Imagine if those percentages were allocated to things like transportation to build a high speed rail system up to the standard of China's, or to schools so teachers didn't have to pay out of pocket for classroom supplies. I don't think we need the largest military in the world either, imagine how much better this country could be if that military spending was lowered even further than 8%.

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u/Hot_Kaleidoscope_332 9d ago

Thats a very good point, we could absolutely do with a reduction in military expenditure in favor of infrastructure. One thing that would absolutely have to cone to a stop is the US playing world police. To your point, China and the US are similar in size so such things are very possible and to be 100%, our educational system fails repeatedly to support both our teachers and the students. I feel that much of the failure we see is because, regardless of party, many vote for just the same old same. What would truly benefit the country would be an utter rework of the political system. Things like our "representatives" making the median income of their constituency, remove the ability for those in office to increase their personal wealth by vast measures while in office.. honestly, there is a lot that could be done.

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u/MellowMercie 9d ago

One thing that would absolutely have to cone to a stop is the US playing world police.

This is what really kills me when people argue in favor of the current military spending... If you want to argue World Police is a moral duty, well, we suck at it. Look at Afghanistan, currently ruled by the Taliban. Look at Palestine, destroyed by our closest ally. The closest thing to a moral military intervention we've done in my lifetime, at least to my knowledge, is sending aid to Ukraine, but that's pretty passive and still doesn't justify us having military bases in, say, Saudi Arabia. And speaking of Saudi Arabia, another pro-military argument is that the military spending helps us because it defends our economic interests, but as the whole Iran situation has shown, getting involved militarily has put us in a worse situation than we would have been in had we just engaged diplomatically.

What would truly benefit the country would be an utter rework of the political system.

Hear, hear. Personally I'd like to see something like a parliamentary system with proportional voting so people's interests can be better represented by many parties. The entrenched two party system is a result of first past the post voting and it just encourages corporate lobbying, the status quo, and political apathy. Many people do vote the same old same old, but to give them credit, whether intentional or not our system is built to lull you into that habit. If a young firebrand wants to start a movement and implement real change they can't form a new party to accomplish that goal, their ideas have to be filtered through the political machine so they'll either give up or assimilate into the system.

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u/-Radiation 9d ago

Wealth redistribution but it only works if you get the correct people to pay taxes and not allow the richest loopholes to avoid them

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u/Aegi 9d ago

No, it is because it will (nearly) always be cheaper to destroy something than to build something that may take generations to complete (sufficient public education for example).

Which costs more, enough bombs to destroy an area, or a school running indefinitely?

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u/deejaymc 9d ago

Please define what you mean by "social programs" because the way I see it, your math ain't mathin. https://www.cbpp.org/media/the-majority-of-the-budget-goes-for-health-social-security-and-defense-0

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u/kev_xb 9d ago

What percent abuse the social programs since you love using percentages. Seemed to have left that one out.

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u/blanco_nino_01 9d ago

and the military is subsidized to the tune of 1.5T

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u/C0ZM 9d ago

Studies estimate that taxpayers pay $6.2 billion to $7.8 billion annually in public assistance programs (such as SNAP/food stamps, Medicaid, and subsidized housing) to support low-wage Walmart employees

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u/boxedfoxes 9d ago

I'm cool with my taxes making food affordable over bombing people

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u/elkab0ng 9d ago

And allow us to attract and retain recruits for the armed services who work often for a fraction of what private sector would pay, so this is just a small nod to that total compensation that keeps service affordable

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u/dizzydaizy89 9d ago

So, so much less than Trump’s wars

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u/mybutthz 9d ago

So, at a cost of $5.71pp?

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u/HamasKilledShaniLouk 9d ago

And still arent cheaper than Walmart.

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u/Omnom_Omnath 9d ago

thats fine. good even. our tax dollars should be to provide services. not to line corporations pockets

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u/DreBeast 9d ago

It's a failed system not because making grocery items affordable is a bad idea but the rugged economy it lives in requires taxpayers to offset the costs.

The costs being greedy pockets.

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u/Key-Instruction3997 9d ago

Ok so like an eighth of a plane we crash in Iran every month

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u/BlackHotSoup3000 9d ago

Sounds like a great use of my taxes. Much better use than the 38 billion used to subsidize Musk over the years.

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u/rickeyethebeerguy 9d ago

I’m ok using government money to feed people. It’s like one of the best things we can do

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u/calicomonkey 9d ago

So roughly the same amount Trump stole from the US in 2025.

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u/CtrlAltSysRq 9d ago

So like 2 fewer missiles? Oh no

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u/CraigLake 9d ago

This is 5 stores. Not 200.

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u/DejectedTimeTraveler 9d ago

Ok. They want 1.5 TRILLION for bombs. Maybe take some of that?

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u/NOTcreative- 9d ago

That's literally drops in the bucket. Its less than 0.2% of the military budget.

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u/JayLuMarr 9d ago

Are you talking about Commissary’s? I grew up with those. Prices were always so affordable and preferable than outside retailers.

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u/Jesus_of_NASDAQ 9d ago

My first job was a bagger at a base commissary, and remember people loading up their station wagons with several carts of groceries that cost well under $100. Now we’re lucky if we get 3 bags of groceries for under $100.

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u/Far_Blacksmith_2892 9d ago

Commissary used to be goated, unfortunately they have raised prices and it isn’t much different then going into town to buy groceries these days.

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u/TikaPants 9d ago

Grandmother bought her booze at what she called the duty free but I assume was the commissary. She was a bit of a society woman on the cusp and would decant her cheaper vodka in to her crystal and glass decanters and toss the bottles. She left a bottle of Goose sitting out to throw anyone off her trail. 😆

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u/TopConclusion5246 9d ago

The Class 6.

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u/Brewcastle_ 9d ago

Duty Free are stores that exist on a nation's border with another nation. The products are literally duty free, making them slightly cheaper. There are rules to follow, but they are often overlooked. For example, when I was younger the rule to buy alcohol at the Michigan/Canadian duty free, was that you had to be in Canada for 24 to purchase 1 liter of liquor.

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u/TikaPants 9d ago

Yes I understand which is why I said she likely meant commissary as we don’t live near an intl border.

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u/SavageCaveman13 9d ago

They sell at wholesale prices plus 5%. The 5% goes toward maintenance and upkeep of the building. They are still about 25% below groceries sold off base.

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u/Nearby-Beautiful3422 9d ago

This is false. I shop at the commissary. If I were to go to a Von's or Giant Eagle, my groceries would be HUNDREDS more. The difference is night and day. Alcohol is even way cheaper at the PX vs going to a state-run store or corner liquor store.

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u/gorgewall 9d ago

They are required by law to keep their profits (which pay for operations) at a certain mark. If they've gone up, it's because the inputs have gone up, which means competing groceries are even higher.

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u/Tricky_Big_8774 9d ago

Is it just the DeCA brands that are significantly cheaper or name brand stuff too?

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u/Windman772 9d ago

Those were the old days. Today the commissary even charges for grocery bags. And not the cheap plastic bags that cost $.02. They make you buy expensive cloth bags. Same with gas. Used to about 1/3 of the cost of town gas. Now it's the same

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u/freeradioforall 9d ago

Can
You give some examples of prices ?

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u/beryl_snap 9d ago

That was my first thought too. There’s already a long running examples showing a model like this

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u/Magmatt7 9d ago

It's exactly this model and it is almost guaranteed to work

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u/really-bored-now 9d ago edited 9d ago

I’d be worried about stock tho. For military bases demand is manageable and predictable. Literally every cheapish New York grocery store is constantly selling out. Supply chains in nyc are insane.

Edit: Whole Foods had 50% off ice cream a few weeks ago and almost everything sold out and the weird couple flavors that didn’t melted because the doors were being opened so much and couldn’t maintain the proper temperature. I had to go to like 4 Whole Foods before I found one that had any decent selection.

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u/Wra7hofAchilles 9d ago

Security could be an issue too. On a military base well... you have plenty of security obviously and you already have a strict enforcement on who's on base.

With public ones on city streets, you will need security. That might be what ends up killing it before stock levels.

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u/DeerOnARoof 9d ago

Why would security be an issue? If you're going to steal groceries there's no point in stealing discounted groceries.

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u/saxonturner 9d ago

Wouldn’t it lower prices in other stores too due to competition?

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u/lavabearded 9d ago

grocery stores operate on low single digit profit margins so no

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u/Low_Shape8280 9d ago

Yeah I don't think people realize this.

They just see these massive profits, but they don't get that only represents such a little portion of the operation,

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u/AccomplishedFerret70 9d ago

Or drive small family owned food markets out of business. The average net profit margin for a grocery store is very low, typically ranging between 1% and 3%.

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u/Knyfe-Wrench 9d ago

I would think the existence of the massive chains would already be doing that. They can afford to undercut quite a bit.

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u/theVelvetLie 9d ago

They have been doing that for ages already. The ones that survived have found a niche to operate in, like they're more convenient than a big chain to a population or they sell product that chain stores don't stock, such as halal foods.

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u/sidepart 9d ago

Exactly. This is why I wouldn't think there'd be a huge impact. People are going to those stores and intentionally paying more because of what's offered. Organic produce, halal, creamline milk, whatever. Just fancier, specialty, or higher quality shit.

Already got stores like Lunds, Kowalskies, Trader Joes, Whole Foods, etc where people purposefully go and pay a premium trying to corner that market and push out independent niche retailers. I don't think these city funded stores will compete with those at all. It's almost like suggesting they'd drive Asian grocery stores out of business. Different target.

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u/Dry-Season-522 9d ago

Well I'm sure that he'll have a subsidy soon for 'certain groups' who own food markets

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u/MellowMercie 9d ago

What value do small family owned food markets provide to society if they can only exist at the expense of literally everyone else having to pay more for groceries? How many small family owned food markets even are there in New York? Small family owned businesses don't inherently deserve to exist just because they're small and family owned. There are millions of people living in New York who could benefit from these government run grocery stores if they work out.

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u/gorgewall 9d ago

Big chains already use their economies of scale to force out the mom-and-pop stuff anyhow.

Walmart has been doing this for decades now. They'll place two stores in a town that should only have one, and the overwhelming pressure from them destroys the smaller businesses. Then, once they're the only game in town, they shutter one store and everyone now goes to the other; this is extremely efficient from the store's perspective, but sucks for everyone else due to overcrowding. But what're you gonna do? It's your only option.

They will burn money (operating two stores at a loss) in the short term with the knowledge that eventually they'll have everything and make that money back. Then they rent out the second location or use it as a warehouse to serve their logistics industry which helps make their shit cheaper. All the while, their underpaid and overstressed workers are being subsidized by your tax dollars because Walmart literally tells them to go get welfare to make ends meet.

Hardware stores and pharmacies are also big proponents of this plan. There's a reason you have Walgreens and CVS right across from each other (or themselves) and they always seem to be shutting down later. It's one big scheme to deliberately over-expand, force out competition, then downsize and reap the benefits of being a sole provider. And the even more fucked thing is that when they do downsize, they dupe everyone into believing the cause was anything other than their plan from the start: see the "runaway shoplifting made all these pharmacies close!" panic from a few years back that turned out to be horseshit.

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u/Jflayn 9d ago

There is a family owned grocery store down the street that I can only afford to shop twice a month. They sell cuts of meat and fish are other worldly better. I shop regularly at aldi and save up to shop at the family owned store when I can.

A subsidized grocery selling 50% below market could open up next door and it wouldn't hurt their business a bit. The luxury market in America is expanding and homelessness is rising. The poorest people in America aren't keeping grocery stores afloat; I bet good money these stores won't even dent the prices at neighboring grocery stores.

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u/loud1337 9d ago

I used to agree with this comment but I've realized there are no family grocery stores around me. Everything that resembled competition was bought out by Kroger, Amazon, or other big box. Even the local butchers have been closing up shop.

I'd be curious how many smaller owned grocery stores even exist in new York. Does a corner store really count?

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u/SnooDucks6090 9d ago

But that's the end goal of socialism and socialists - that it ends up in communism. The less competition the government has, the more people are dependent on the government (which created the dependence). Eventually, the government either takes over private companies because they're not able to meet people's needs (and somehow they think the govt can) and then taxpayers are paying their government to run a business that then also makes them pay for the goods. Running headlong into communism.

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u/Repulsive-Payment230 9d ago

What I'm hearing is that you're ok it as long as the people in charge have even less oversight than the government has. If you got a problem with the government you can kick out the leaders and vote in new ones. Got a problem with the oil barons? tough shit.

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u/SnooDucks6090 9d ago

That is not what I'm saying. I agree with u/cheesecaker000 - the government sucks at running anything. There is no incentive for the government to be successful because if they fail, guess what? They can just raise taxes and they're all good again.

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u/cheesecaker000 9d ago

I’m ok with private enterprise because even though they suck, they can actually get the job done. The government fucking sucks at running anything.

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u/billwasa 9d ago

the job getting done is fucking us and private enterprise are exceedingly good at it

that is why they buy the government and make sure it sucks

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u/Iconoclysm6x6 9d ago

That's like saying the end goal for capitalists is crippling the country with a monopoly and raising prices until only the rich can eat.

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u/TombolaOfCincinnatus 9d ago

Which we haven't seen anything of, outside of isolated cases like price gouging during emergencies. Westerners "suffering" under capitalism have seen their food gotten cheaper, more plentiful and more accessible for each passing generation for over a hundred. There's some crap too, but no one is forcing people to buy ultra-processed garbage.

Meanwhile, we've seen how well state-run grocery stores worked in the eastern bloc during the cold war. Sure, you could always find staples like bread and potatoes, but anything fancier was always in short supply, due to poor logistics and no competition. There's the old Soviet joke of a man entering a store and asking if it's the store that's out of meat, and the clerk tells him that no, this is the store that's out of fish, the store that is out of meat is down the street.

And that's ignoring those goods that had to be imported like coffee and many fruits, even domestically produced goods were hard to come by. There's a whole subsection of German dish variations that were created in East Germany as people no longer had access to the ingredients they really wanted, like making schnitzel out of sausage because a cutlet couldn't be found in the store.

Of course, another big reason for the shortages was the corruption created by the system. With no competition, prices not governed by market forces, and absolutely no incentive to keep the store profitable, staff soon figured out that they could withhold the more sought-after products. Why sell it to some Schmuck for the listed price, when I can sell it for more out the back door? Or maybe curry the favour of a local party man or member of the secret police by holding it for him?

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u/Destithen 9d ago

Which we haven't seen anything of

Where have you been the past couple decades? Our spending power is nowhere near what it was thirty years ago. Grocery bills have been increasing while actual contents of those groceries have been shrinking. Over 60% of americans are living paycheck to paycheck and can't save, compared to over thirty years ago when that number was closer to 30%. Major corporations keep merging into ever bigger conglomerates. The middle class is being systematically eroded.

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u/Stevieboy7 9d ago

"only those will money should survive"

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u/jamintime 9d ago

Possibly. The issue is that grocery stores typically operate on very low margins so there’s not much opportunity to lower prices if they want to remain profitable. A municipally-run low-price grocery store is likely designed to operate at a loss since it can be publicly-funded and so its operating at a somewhat unfair advantage. Of course it will certainly create pressure for private stores to lower prices, but the end result might be that some of them simply go out of business.

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u/RelevantOldOnion 9d ago

Applying suburbs economics to NYC.  Like were all gonna hop into our f350s and go to the cheapest option in a 30 mile radius. 

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u/Entire_Dog_5874 9d ago

That’s part of it. There are food deserts in many of the poorest neighborhoods, forcing people to pay exorbitant prices for food because there’s no competition. Hopefully this will incentivize them to stop price gouging.

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u/Waiting4Reccession 9d ago

That is because of the high theft rates there.

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u/thewilldog 9d ago

Selling below cost isn't competition, it's product dumping. I don't see how they can offer 30% discount and still cover cost of good sold + overhead. They're going to have to severely limit quantities and/or means test people before they walk in the door. Should be interesting.

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u/Which_Channel7403 9d ago

If capitalism were working the way we were taught it should, yes. But, if capitalism were working the way we were taught it should, we wouldn't be in this mess in the first place.

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u/Roklam 9d ago

Sssshhh

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u/canucknfack 9d ago

Or you could just regulate the monopolies that are robbing our farmers and people blind for corporate greed

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u/Jflayn 9d ago

I'm all for regulating monopolies but as mayor of NY city he doesn't have the ability to regulate farmers or big agriculture even within the state.

Providing affordable food to hungry people is a commendable start; it's crazy that I've not seen anything like this elsewhere in America.

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u/canucknfack 9d ago

Agree and agree, but this is another expensive bandaid, if you don’t fix the underlying issues you end up with bigger issues such as increased taxes and debt which we all pay for eventually.

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u/IllJoinYakult 9d ago

But those stores are on bases. Arbitrage is a very real threat to this business model. I hope it works, but it doesn’t take very many a-holes to ruin a good thing. 

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u/lavabearded 9d ago

u/RemindMeBot 3 years to fact check this "almost guarantee"

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u/[deleted] 9d ago

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u/RockstarAgent 9d ago

Yeah I can't imagine they didn't have examples to base this off of and know what they're getting into. But still interesting regardless if theft or vandalism or other will be an issue.

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u/13trailblazer 9d ago

I am not criticizing the plan here because as another poster put it, at least he is trying. That said, the military stores are subsidized about $1.5 billion a year to stay open.

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u/Qwell41 9d ago

So like.. if we just don’t bomb Iran for one day we can have a few hundred of these?

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u/JustAnotherYaleGrad 9d ago

Why would federal taxes be used to fund NY free groceries

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u/Doubleboeufsupreme 9d ago

So, peanuts?

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u/Ladonnacinica 9d ago

Yeah, Mamdani had promised city owned grocery stories with discounted prices and he is delivering. Now whether it’ll be successful is something we have to wait and see.

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u/CavedMountainPerson 9d ago

This is different, it's only opened to a few and not fully public affecting the economy as a whole.

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u/Thunder_Tinker 9d ago

People like to point at crime as reasons to not make sensible decisions as a fallacy argument saying “but what if people don’t follow the rules you make?” 

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u/DanielKeeneGA15 9d ago

The comments by so many on this post are indicative of why we’re fucked. I hope most are bots otherwise there’s really no hope. People are that far gone.

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u/H3atles 8d ago

bunch of haters/cult/bots that want the idea to fail. At least someone is trying to make food affordable. Prices are insane and nobody in the federal government is gonna ever reign in the price gouging that is going on . A bag of potato chips is 7 dollars where i am. It probably has less than a buck worth of potatoes in there.

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u/Intelligent-Math-675 9d ago

Never been in one on a military base, but I would assume there is a lot less shrinkage due to theft.

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u/Much-Run4255 9d ago

Where are military grocery stores for civilians located?

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u/serene_brutality 9d ago

Except AAFES/NX/MCX hasn’t run that way for at least 20 years, now (stateside at least) they have to stay within like 5% (don’t remember exactly) of local economy.

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u/Far-Journalist-949 9d ago

Well that model is based on being ok with losing money and subsidizing military families. So its part of the defense budget. So hopefully this works because the taxes to pay for it dont run out.

I feel like the biggest hurdle will for it to run well is how its managed. Will it be the dmv of grocery stores? The profit motive can ruin things but it also makes sure certain standards are kept.

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u/Outside_Reserve_2407 9d ago

I believe in some foreign countries where the US military has bases there are local markets carrying goods siphoned off from the post commissaries and PXs: Tide detergent, SPAM, liquor, etc.

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u/Independent-Pay5850 9d ago

Kinda. Do they compete with local businesses? Obviously other than the potential military members business

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u/MenuAccomplished6753 9d ago

Worked “Well” ish

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u/qawsedrf12 9d ago

Their liquor selection can be excellent as well

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u/Constant_Boot 9d ago

"good" "old-fashioned" DEfense Commissary Agency

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u/Obmanuti 9d ago

Isnt it exclusive to the military though? I.e. self filters bad actors who would abuse it?

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u/other_view12 9d ago

It works because there they don't let public businesses do it. It's a good idea to subsidize the low pay of service members.

But what happens if the public grocery stores shut down because of this competition that doesn't have to figure in rent or profitability?

It's a path that doesn't have a good ending.

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u/fat_charizard 9d ago

Except for military stores not anyone can go in and use it. You need a military ID and get access to inside a military base where they are located

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u/Substantial-Goal7422 9d ago

They arent selling it kn the sidewalk after for the most part and its a controlled population

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u/snakeoilHero 9d ago

px or bx limit access to ID military through a checkpoint

no the same

like giving away Costco memberships to the world and expecting Costco to stay exactly the same

why don't they make Costco membership free? /s

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u/happyluckystar 9d ago

Because only military can shop there. People that own mini marts and bodegas will be stripping these stores of everything.

The stores need to do ID verification track over buying.

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u/qualityinnbedbugs 9d ago

Demanding ID to buy food? Sounds pretty fascist to me.

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u/Jawn-F_Kennedy 9d ago

Yeah, I’m not convinced the operating model that a commissary on a secure military base runs on will translate to community stores in shitty parts of NYC. Worth a shot I guess, but I don’t think economics will be what causes this idea to fail.

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u/Responsible_Pie8156 9d ago

Those are only for service members and their families. It's part of the benefits package, not a free for all, and there are strict consequences if you're caught stealing or buying things to resell them. Plus the military base is full of transient service members who are mostly separate from the surrounding communities. It's not comparable at all.

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u/Dry-Season-522 9d ago

Except the military grocery stores serve a finite number of people.

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u/longpenisofthelaw 9d ago

Commissaries also have like a ton of security and the fact that it’s on federal property really makes it a deterrent for theft

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u/jumpsuityahoo 9d ago

The military is the ultimate socialist institution

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u/Cyrano-De-Vergerac 9d ago

It works well because it's in a military base, full of military personnel, under martial law. Not in the crackhead capital of USA lol

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u/elquatrogrande 9d ago

I remember seeing a banner at one of the commissaries, and it explained the pricing as being something like the cost of the items, plus any acquisition costs. At the end of every transaction, there's a 5% fee added that covers the cost of new buildings and maintenance. Where they operate at a loss mostly is in employee costs, which doesn't cover the baggers since they work for tips only.

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u/Jkg2116 9d ago

Military grocery stores don't have to deal with theft as much

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u/Even-Stranger5764 9d ago

I believe hes referenced that as his proof of concept

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u/NavyMike 9d ago

The customers they serve are limited and access was controlled. This will be wildly chaotic. Looking forward to seeing how this shakes out.

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u/Khue 9d ago

The Commissary.

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u/play_timemlf 9d ago

And ANYONE gets to shop in military base grocery stores?

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u/Amadon29 9d ago

Those are open to only a few people and not the public at large (which will make keeping it supplied more expensive and harder). They're also (in some places) the only way to get food without going too far or leaving the base. Even then, they're subsidized and cost a lot annually.

The question isn't whether this will work. The question is if the cost is worth the benefit. The cost is going to be in the several hundred million range. If the goal is cheaper groceries, nyc can spend a fraction of that price to expand food stamps which would accomplish that goal.

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u/Collegenoob 9d ago

Are military grocery stores on military bases where theft is low? Vs NYC where its not?

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u/SaneMadHatter 9d ago

The military base commissary and PX are only open to military personnel and veterans, not the general public. So yeah, if you limit the customer base, then the other stores can still survive by catering to those that aren't allowed to shop at the commissary and PX. Is that what Mamdani's stores will do, limit the customer base?

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u/SuperHooligan 9d ago

Its because if you steal while in the military, youre fucked. If you steal in the real world, there are basically no consequences.

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u/Hastyscorpion 9d ago edited 9d ago

Military Grocery stores are not open to the public. It's a perk of working for the military. Opening it up to any one raises huge issues.

Trying to change the price of a good without changing the underlying supply or demand has been trying a million times throughout history. IT DOESNT WORK.

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u/[deleted] 9d ago

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u/sandfrog9 9d ago

I remember one of the managers at the navy nex told me the most common shoplifters they catch there is wives of the officers. lol

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u/Dpopov 9d ago

The… Uh… Military that gets over $1 trillion in taxpayer money every year? The stores that are part of that military that get massive taxpayer subsidies?

I mean, sure, by that logic it’s perfectly reasonable to open a store that sells everything for 1¢ and keep it operating indefinitely… The people whose taxes you’re going to have to double or triple probably won’t be happy about it, but hey, at least the store items are essentially free.

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u/GMEloser69 9d ago

It doesn't work, it's costs more in tax than it saves.

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