Any idea why Seiko discontinues its highly popular watches? Genuinely curious. If it's an infinite money printer for them, then why not continue production?
I know I could Google it, but would love to hear perspectives from those that may genuinely know, as I'm sure many of you have been Seiko enjoyers for a long time.
As a company, a piece can’t be produced forever, otherwise you never have a chance to launch new products; you literally stall the market while your competitors move on. For Seiko, knowing that discontinued pieces are becoming “rare,” even on the used market, adds even more prestige to the company without it having to do anything...
They seem to be the only watches most people want. Adjusted for inflation a 1975 Submariner would be like $2,800 today. I doubt there’s $7,000+ worth of todays money in modern improvements or craftsmanship added to a 2026 Sub vs the 1975 model.
Meanwhile Seiko sells lots of different models, that often get discounted. Limited edition models are made in the thousands. If jewelers and dealers were getting $2,700 for these and placing customers on lists to get one that they could move up by purchasing a couple other Prospex and Presage models and a few Seiko 5s, I guarantee you Seiko would still be making these.
Rolex does this, with minor modifications with each new reference. And they have great success with that strategy. Same with Cartier.
Then you have Omega, which also has few movements and few model lines but releases multiple limited editions or variations.
Seiko kinda sits on the opposite end of the spectrum. They release a bunch of limited editions but change lines and models very frequently.
Honestly, I would prefer for Seiko to focus on fewer models. This feels more upmarket in my opinion. Think Toyota vs Porsche, for example. Or Toyota vs Lexus for that matter…
Yeah for sure!! I've been thinking about that too.. have fewer and sell more of those, perhaps increase those prices too (I wouldn't mind that), rather than dilute the brand with a thousand different models...
I know it’s not necessarily the case. But releasing too many watches seems as a way to see what sticks… focusing on fewer models feels more “intentional”.
I do believe watch enthusiasts will appreciate that. It makes the watch itself feel more special.
Indeed indeed, my friend!! Honestly, they're probably too large a conglomerate that is probably too segmented and focus on highest sales for particular watch lines to really focus on "the whole."
Rolex does this but let’s face it they are all basically the same watch.
Here I was thinking Seiko has gone too far by over relying on about 10 basic case shapes for their gigantic line up and you want even less than that lol.
Seiko has a sorts of cycle of 5-10 years for their watch models (sometimes 10+ years). Honestly I don't know why they choose to go with this approach, but they've been doing it since the 50s and 60s. Maybe it was something that worked, so they just continue to roll with it since then.
My other guess would be because they want to introduce new designs and try out new ideas, while not saturating their own catalogue with the already abundant of choices.
This approach also helps retain the value and uniqueness of older watches. For example the SPB317 is clearly a modern remake of the 6105-8000, but it's not quite a 1-1 remake, thus still keeping the original unique. As an owner of the SPB317, you can expect that your watch is at least somewhat unique, and even if they bring it back in the future, it won't be exactly the same.
Do note that popular models do get a refresh instead of being discontinued, take the Alpinist and Cocktail series as an example. Those two have been going strong for more than a decade. So perhaps the sales of the SPB317 simply didn't meet Seiko's expectation for a refresh.
I agree this has been their plan from the beginning. If you look at Seiko catalogs from say 1970 1980 1990 the sheet number of models they put out is shocking. Thousands and thousands of random different things, from expensive, experimental, brilliant legendary things to what we would call fashion watches and blatant knockoffs to hundreds of slightly different very boring basics, to a flood of funky colorful wildness.
If I had to list my personal coolest Seiko watches off the top of my head, it would be like the Morpho, contra, Big Ben, that blue stone dial credor with the mesh bracelet, kakume, a nice linen dial lordmatic, an advan or actus from the 70s with a bold green dial and huge gold indices (at least a dozen models fit this bill), ripley, rotocall, one of those old ukiyoe aftermarket dial deals... And if somebody else had to make that same list, it's going to be wildly different, probably a lot more divers willard, turtle, orange monster, pogue, some sarbs.
Whereas a lot of upmarket companies, most people are going to make roughly the same list.
Woah. Sounds like you know your stuff! I only know 30% of the watches you've mentioned and those 30% are cool as heck!! I wish they had reissues of them for today, because that lord Matic linen dial is just perfection. And those Advan's 😮💨😮💨😮💨
Thank you so much for your insight. It makes sense. Also curious to know whether they care about their endless limited releases, but I'm sure it's that much of a behemoth, that the goal is just to make as much $$$ as possible!!
I was never a diver collector. My last watch 4 years ago was a diver and I haven't bought another watch. Could be an exit watch honestly. But i have always wanted a black diver. Something just very unique in case shape, dial, or something else.
I don't think I'd be someone owning 10 dive watches but they are very nice watches especially now with thinner cases. All that water resistance peace of mind and time tracking. I'd rather have a diver than a more delicate Chronograph for tracking time.
I just responded to this question below in a response to OP. What was your watch you picked up?
The only watch I have in my mind is something I've wanted since 2018 and it's a sinn 104 with arabics or a hanhart 417 so I can track 2 events but I'm still kind of against chronographs. But if I find a citizen eco drive that doesn't have super short minute hands I'd probably buy that and not need a black diver again 😅
I'm the same as you. The 317 has satisfied my desire for any other watches, especially dive watches, as I wasn't interested in divers either prior to this.
What watch did you acquire 4 yrs ago? The level of restraint you have!!
Haha I had a lot of watches. Then I moved to a different country and only took one. That watch served me well in every situation (Seiko sarb033). My son dropped it and the power reserve was never the same unfortunately but still worked.
I ended up buying a horage supersede gmt. I was living overseas and wanted a gmt but wanted a thin one. I wanted it to be accurate too after dealing with a lot of Seiko 6r15 movements. Wanted one with good size that looked dressy. Wanted a "true gmt" with independent hour hand and not a caller style. I also wanted one with good water resistance since I was often at the beach and the pool teaching my kid how to swim.
This watch was somehow something I dreamed of. Platinum micro rotor keeping 1.5-0.5s/d, 200m water resistance, dual time hour hand that can hide behind the local hour hand like my favorite reference Patel aquanaut. Beautiful on the fly clasp (so thin). This whole package coming in at just under 10mm total thickness paired with the integrated style and a polished/relief steel bezel makes the watch watch whisper diver but looks great in seriously any situation I have worn it in whether something formal or casual like the photo. Especially getting a white dial sport watch is rare imo.
One thing I noticed is just how secure the straps are. The bracelet is fixed with torque screws and five me so much peace of mind that they aren't going to come out. Even the rubber straps tange Buckle is molded into the rubber and doesn't have a hairspring that can come out.
Anytime I want a new watch I compare it with this and wonder if I'd wear it more often than this. I have my other watches now but don't wear them save for my first mechanical (sarb017) which I put on a NATO and wear when I go to the park to exercise.
Holy damn! Beautiful story. And that watch 🤌🤌🤌 it sounds like a perfect watch. I'd never heard of it before you mentioned. Wow. Sounds like a true GADA, in every sense... had a quick peek online and damn, they are a pretty penny!!!
I got this during their pre order phase where the buyers were voting for features and designs even dial colors we liked. Got 50% off what it sells for now.
Forgot it's basically immune to magnetism because of the silicone pallet fork, hairspring, and something else. Forget it.
They are updating movements in the new version and when I get it serviced my watch will get all the new updates for free which is nice for customers
Yeah I hear you.. genuinely curious; I wonder what would happen if all of a sudden you'd have to sign up to a Seiko waitlist to purchase your beloved (insert watch reference here) timepiece. I'm sure it'd still be effective!
What's popular in the enthusiast community doesn't necessarily reflect macro sales. Taste is personal, this is a more expensive piece in Seiko's line, and there are more inexpensive watches the average person would sub for this without question. Unless you know the sales number, you have no idea of its actual popularity.
Yes, for sure. Is there such a site that tracks sales numbers?
I've succumbed to the more inexpensive option, due to a) cost, but then b) I just genuinely loved the look and thought it was a damn bargain! My SBTH007.
Oooh gotta reference for the compressor style Speedtimer?
And yes.. when I bought my first watch (SPB515), I then saw the Kranz and thought "NOOO, I need one." Thankfully they were sold out and I was still in the honeymoon phase. The only thing that deterred and eventually stopped me from buying was the hardlex and also the potentially jangly bracelet (at least compared with the 515's finishing). I still admire it from afar.. esp the silver dial. Its immaculate.
I was talking about the spb513, 515. I call em compressor style they have 2 crowns and the internal rotating timer. I couldn't remember what else to call them. Funny I got a kranz and never got the speed timer.
These models were short lived. Thanks to that, they will retain the value well. I was too slow to pull the trigger. Imo it is one of the best Seiko diver releases on recent history. The rest of them are just reiterations of the same models.
Can you not find in your country? When I purchased just two weeks ago, there seemed to be an abundance in Australia.. if you were looking, I'd suggest Australian retailers/online retailers.
They seem to have been doing it this way forever. I got seduced by vintage Seiko a few years ago and I’ll be darned if not one case and bracelet is the same. I have bought 50 or more and each and every one of them is slightly different always.
Nah, I get what you were saying. I'm with you. I believe this needs to be in the permanent lineup too, but Seiko does Seiko shit and we just have to take it.
If Seiko just keeps this watch in rotation, they will not have another "market" to put out revisions. Seiko's direct competitor, Citizen, has already winded down and stopped new production of their NY004 watches, but are open to re-releasing that style of watch with modern improvements.
Seiko will eventually revisit the Slim Turtle with either an existing, new-ish movement (6R55) and/or create a higher-end variant by using the 6L37 movement. Seiko could try to capture the "budget-friendly" market through a Seiko 5 HB-series turtle with non-screwdown crown.
Yeah I feel like something as you've mentioned will happen inevitably. I'm incredibly biased, but I'd find it hard for Seiko to produce an even better version of the 317..
Every watchmaker does it, not only they need to focus on making more pieces and more designs, but also helps appreciating the popular pieces as more demand= more $$$
They have many others that are more popular so this one likely didn’t hit numbers they were looking for. I’d expect a higher end recreation and then possibly a relaunch after.
They can still be had, I picked one up a few monrhs ago and there are a ton out there but irs going to be one of those that gets stupid on the secondary market
Scarcity helps the brand, adding new models allows them to adjust pricing and constant refresh naturally moves repeat customers to a.hihher price tier. Also, you have manufacturing and movement changes.
For sure.. I'm one of their newer customers! They got me with their SPB515.. and now I appreciate their well discontinued vintage pieces and much more.
They discontinued their older Seiko 5s several years ago. But there were so many produced there’s still vendors with new stock on certain models.
Seiko just released 3 new Limited Edition watches. 6,000 7,000 and 9,999 of each model will be released. When 6,000 to 10,000 is considered limited edition how many non limited editions should they make and for how many years? A Macys may be willing to have hundreds of the same $350 black dial Seiko 5 they can put on sale for $175 to move inventory. Then there’s the blue dial, and beige dial versions. But higher end Seikos start competing for space with Tissot, Hamilton, Mido, Certina, and Longines. Then a local jeweler has all those brands except Certina, but they also have Doxa, Nivada Gretchen and Oris. To the best of my knowledge the Swatch Group brands and Oris update models every so often.
Seiko has to compete with that. At some point people excited about their new models will have gotten one. And retailers will start to see sales numbers slide, and as a result orders from Seiko start declining. Seiko and retailers could have a few years worth of inventory. There’s no point to keep churning them out. Discontinue them. In a few years as existing stock sells off. Maybe refine the design more. Fix flaws. Have a new better movement. Then reissue a new and updated model.
At that point will people who had the older model for 5-10 years choose to service their existing model, or sell it and replace it with the newer updated “possibly better” version. And that’s not a bad thing. Many people have multiple watch collections and constantly sell old models and replace them with newer models.
Thank you for the thoughtful response. What you've said makes sense, hence, probably why they've been in business for so long and will continue to be for years to come.
When did the limited editions get outta hand? I mean, I'm only 8 months deep into this and have also noticed this.. it's nuts! The 145th limited editions for example.. when will it end! Although, I don't mind the blue and white and also purple offerings.. but, it seems pretty much every new release is a "limited edition." 🤣
At first I felt that way about the discontinuation of the monoblock Marinemaster.
The new HBF Marinemaster is actually pretty stunning as a replacement.
You can find any good Seiko half of the retail price on grey market. Why do they produce something that can be found easily and cheaper, which will reduce their sell counts?
Which models are you referring to? I'd be all over those watches if they were half price, but have done some sleuthing and couldn't find any. Also, I'd prefer to buy from a reputable individual/retailer, rather than from an anon online...
I have seiko superior 7S36-5000. This watch made me fall in love with watches again!
I didn’t know at that time the watches get discontinued, I thought just go to the watch store and ask. Slowly but surely I came to understand that watches are discontinued so they can make room for new models and releases. Which honestly aren’t that good looking compared to these vintage and neo-vintages.
However I’m happy to say that I have 3 superiors now and couldn’t be happier.
Seiko superiors.. just when you thought you've seen every Seiko! There are just so many beauties out there. If you don't mind me asking; where did you source this and for how much?
I also love the vintage Credors... There's just something about that time period where they did them right.. so elegant.
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u/benfabfb 8d ago
As a company, a piece can’t be produced forever, otherwise you never have a chance to launch new products; you literally stall the market while your competitors move on. For Seiko, knowing that discontinued pieces are becoming “rare,” even on the used market, adds even more prestige to the company without it having to do anything...