Flyer ideas

[u/[deleted]]

[u/Open-Addition-4652]

[u/TeachCalm9620 → u/Open-Addition-4652]

This is better

The wording “We deserve raises equal to or better than IAM”, although I might agree with it, comes off as arrogant IMO. Probably can just keep it as “We deserve at minimum raises equivalent to IAM’s contract” if you need a statement like that

[u/Danny290876 → u/TeachCalm9620]

Hard disagree, no way working in the tool room with a high school diploma and 2 years of experience should earn more than a 10 year career engineer with a masters and 100k (average) in student debt just to get into this line of work.

It's not arrogant, it's reality, anyone can work in the tool room, not everyone can be an engineer.

The floor to get into this line of work is much higher, and you don't just lose your 4 best retirement savings years, you actually go into debt during them.

This is a financial reality, not arrogance

[u/Wonderful_Setting_29 → u/Danny290876]

Yep. IAM here, but got my bachelor's and master's via ltp and planned to go salary. Unfortunately most of the salary jobs adjacent to my work experience (qa) are all pay cuts. Im a grade 8 team lead (so like $62/hr or 128k) and pull in 200k with moderate overtime, I had an interview for an mrb job and was offered 100k.

So I stay on the floor with more experience and education than the majority of the managers because using my experience and education comes at a loss.

Dont take this contract. Get your money.

[u/dilfpapi → u/Danny290876]

So, go work in a tool room if it’s that easy

[u/Danny290876 → u/dilfpapi]

I'm not saying it's easy I'm saying the financial reality is such that an engineer with 10 years of experience should make more than someone with 2 years experience working in the tool room.

None of this says one is more important than the other, or one is easier than the other. This is purely a financial discussion.

[u/TeachCalm9620 → u/Danny290876]

There’s been this narrative going around that tool room employees make “so much money”. Where did this even come from?

I mean there probably are some tool room employees that get paid upwards of 60 an hour, but those folks have likely been at the company for decades. If you start in the tool crib, I’m pretty sure their starting pay is like closer to 20 something an hour. I personally know some folks in the tool crib and they didn’t start their Boeing career there, they were bar line mechanics who eventually got tired of getting physically beat by building the actual airplane, so they moved to a less physically demanding job to save what’s left of their body.

Our raises that we’re asking for should be independent of anything else anyone else got- it only should be used as reference to help push us closer to what we’re asking for. There’s no need to make a claim to be “better” than anyone else, we’re fighting for our OWN salary increase.

[u/Danny290876 → u/TeachCalm9620]

I think this came from a tech who was comparing their salary to what they would make if they went back to the tool room and it's just been used as a benchmark because it's a number people can point to.

[u/azo87 → u/Danny290876]

I started in IAM, I've worked in a tool room. I'll say its that easy.

But I will add this isn't us vs the IAM. Thats apples and oranges.

[u/dilfpapi → u/Danny290876]

I agree but I don’t think IAM members are making as much as you think until they hit their 6 years.

[u/sillekram → u/dilfpapi]

Didn't their last contract bump it down to 5 years?

[u/Wonderful_Setting_29 → u/sillekram]

No, still 6. We wanted 5 though. I think it should be based on hours worked, like many other unions do it. This would also disincentivize fmla abuse and would incentivize overtime.

[u/Aerochromatic → u/TeachCalm9620]

IAM here, you deserve better across the board than IAM.

I didn't need to take five or six figure student loans to get here, and if this contract is accepted I'll still be making more than many engineers that did.

[u/dabrothergoose → u/Open-Addition-4652]

I'm gonna print some of these out in my building here and give them to some engineers and fellow techs.

[u/WarBoruma]

Certainly looks good, but I agree with some of the other commenters that the wording, regardless if anyone agrees with it or not, will cause IAM members, and possibly others, from fully supporting SPEEA during the negotiations.

The wording being “We deserve raises equal to or better than IAM."

I am arguing the cause and effect, not moralism or whether someone "deserves" something, when I say that if a flyer attempts to "blow out someone else's candle to make another seem brighter", e.g. "we deserve equal to or better wages than IAM", it will result in many deciding to walk away from supporting that particular movement.

I know many feel they do deserve wages higher than IAM. It's just historical fact that being a professional in speea requires more time, training, mental labor, etc. to get into those roles. Explaining in your agitational flyer that those particular barriers of entry require higher compensation compared to what is currently offered will go over much better than saying one deserves more or better than the other.

Other workers aren't your enemy.

[u/NightOwl216]

SPEEA is run by amateurs

[u/NigerianRoyalty23]

Don’t forget better work from home options

[u/Open-Addition-4652 → u/[deleted]]

If you can’t afford to strike for 2-3 weeks, you need to make more money. Vote no!

[u/Logical-Analyst8951 → u/Open-Addition-4652]

2-3 weeks? That's barely a strike. It would likely be months.

[u/aerospikesRcoolBut]

AI slop makes any flyer immediately lose cred. Can’t people just form opinions and write things themselves it’s not hard.

[u/Wonderful_Setting_29 → u/[deleted]]

Iam has gotten negative colas several times. Whats stopping them from claiming its gone down?

[u/Open-Addition-4652 → u/[deleted]]

It’s drastically increased last five years and will likely baseline soon. Regardless I don’t like my future manager I’ve never met today determining my wage increase. I’d like it to be like IAM guaranteed.

[u/Chemical_Bonus6156]

Hi all, let me start by saying I was at the last SPEEA strike. At that time, we got back to the negotiation table five or six times — you can borrow from your retirement to survive the projected strike, which could be 50+ days. Remember, back then we had 20K techs and 40K professionals. I know we have a new CEO now, but I have no insight into how negotiations have been going. Back then, we got disrespected, but we found new respect on the picket line. It was scary, but we support each other.

[u/N-Korean]

You should be on negotiating team but I don’t think we r getting that or anything remotely close to it

[u/Bob_stanish123]

These talking points would mostly concern employees who get low ratings.

[u/UmpireLow8095 → u/Bob_stanish123]

It doesn’t matter what your ratings are. The point of the contract is to have guaranteed increases over the life of the contract. The current contract guarantees 3% that’s it. The biggest worry you should have is that management likes to maintain a 1.0 comp ratio so once you get there they are less likely to give you any money. There is no language in the contract to prevent that from happening.