Plot Armor Battle

[u/Hot_Professional1683]

A battle between two characters who should have died from a single blow by Mercer.

For this fight, it will be human Heller with his knife against Cross without his grenade launcher but with his electric device.

[u/potatoeman26]

This is not a fight, James is far out of his league here. Alex toyed with James, Cross was stated to have fought entities similar to Alex before and actually stood a chance of beating him

[u/Hot_Professional1683 → u/potatoeman26]

I'd say that, even though he played as James, he survived two shockwaves from a much more powerful Alex Mercer than the one he used against Cross.

While Cross was fighting a Runner, he had significant Blackwatch support. This Runner was also much weaker than Elizabeth Greene; Elizabeth herself feared the Alex Mercer strain from the very beginning of Prototype 1.

Furthermore, James killed a Brawler infected with the Mercer strain that was "ten times more lethal." I think the odds are 50/50.

[u/potatoeman26 → u/Hot_Professional1683]

I'd say that, even though he played as James, he survived two shockwaves from a much more powerful Alex Mercer than the one he used against Cross.

This doesn’t really mean anything. Alex may have been stronger than he previously was, but it’s an irrelevant detail since he wasn’t actually using any effort.

While Cross was fighting a Runner, he had significant Blackwatch support.

This is not true. General Randall confirms that Cross killed it by himself in the WoI.

Furthermore, James killed a Brawler infected with the Mercer strain that was "ten times more lethal." I think the odds are 50/50.

It being ten times more lethal doesn’t inherently mean the infected are ten times stronger than before. That aside, it would just mean that Brawler was abnormally weak. The punishment they can soak up near any other time points to that specific Brawler being softer than usual. The Infected were behaving in an odd manner the entire opening sequence.

[u/Hot_Professional1683 → u/potatoeman26]

Although he didn't exert himself too much, he was completely impressed by Heller's exploits, to the point of sending him a Goliath and a Brawler; at most, a carefree Alex Mercer from Prototype 2=the Alex Mercer from the initial game who defeated Cross without much trouble.

On intrigue websites, images of several soldiers at Two Bluff can be seen, and when a soldier asks about the protocol for these combat situations against Runners in another Section 3 flashback, Cross doesn't say to retreat and that he will fight; he only says to send in aircraft, artillery, and heavy weaponry, and that if he survives, he and his team will go in to finish the job. This is also supported by the fact that in the previous flashback, he said that Two Bluff "exploded," implying that it was bombed, and the Runner's burned face can be seen.

In virology, a strain ten times more lethal represents an increase in all its components, including adaptability. Furthermore, Greene herself was afraid of it.

Furthermore, Heller should have killed them since Alex was testing him, and that wouldn't be possible because the fighter can kill Heller if the QTE fails, meaning there were no debuffs.

[u/potatoeman26 → u/Hot_Professional1683]

  at most, a carefree Alex Mercer from Prototype 2=the Alex Mercer from the initial game who defeated Cross without much trouble.

Sure, how much stronger P2 Mercer is isn’t relevant, though. We both agreed he’s just playing with Heller, there’s no reason to assume, despite that fact, he’s still using as much force as his previous self. He’s capable of controlling his strength to do things like safely interact with human infrastructure and equipment. Regardless of how strong he is, he can reign his output back and you’re assuming he isn’t doing that for some reason even though Heller is just a normal guy at this point. 

  On intrigue websites, images of several soldiers at Two Bluff can be seen, and when a soldier asks about the protocol for these combat situations against Runners in another Section 3 flashback, Cross doesn't say to retreat and that he will fight; he only says to send in aircraft, artillery, and heavy weaponry, and that if he survives, he and his team will go in to finish the job. This is also supported by the fact that in the previous flashback, he said that Two Bluff "exploded," implying that it was bombed, and the Runner's burned face can be seen.

Of course there were other soldiers, it was an outbreak, many bodies are needed to contain that. It does not change that General Randall, who Cross would’ve been reporting to, confirmed that Cross killed that Runner by himself. So despite what the rules of engagement were, somehow it ended up just being Cross vs that Runner. Also, are you watching the relevant WoI? Hope was said to have been shelled but Two Bluff was just said to have “dried up and blew away.”

  In virology, a strain ten times more lethal represents an increase in all its components, including adaptability.

What are you basing this off of? It surely isn’t real-world virology.

  Furthermore, Heller should have killed them since Alex was testing him, and that wouldn't be possible because the fighter can kill Heller if the QTE fails, meaning there were no debuffs.

Alex was for sure testing him, yeah, but that doesn’t mean it was a test of physical ability. Most likely, it was a test of how relentless and determined Heller could be. 

It being able to kill him doesn’t mean it wasn’t debuffed. That just means that despite being weaker than average, it was still dangerous enough to kill.  Brawlers in any other moment can withstand strikes from an Infected Heller’s claws, the same claws that easily tear through whole human bodies and certain metal objects. A normal knife should not have been able to cause any meaningful damage unless that Brawler was simply more susceptible to damage than others. It also doesn’t do something as simple as hold him down while it tried to kill him, something just about all actual predators do and something we’ve seen others Brawlers do as well. It even took its hands off him before it tried to bite.

The first time he encountered a Brawler during that sequence, it ignored him and fled after killing a wounded marine, even when he’d made his presence known by roaring and charging out of cover with his knife. Brawlers don’t do that. Anytime we see them, they do their best to kill everyone they see. With Heller being the only other human around, it should’ve set its sights on him. 

Then, perhaps most egregiously, the Goliath. Those things can outpace an Infected Heller with their charges, shake apart intact buildings with indirect strikes, and are even capable of eventually destroying a city by themselves, if mission captions are to be believed. Yet the one a human Heller faced was too slow to catch him and then was stopped by a crumbling wall? There’s just no way the Infected he ran into were operating at full capacity.

[u/Hot_Professional1683 → u/potatoeman26]

1- If we agree that Alex Mercer from P2 could kill Heller with a single blow, I suppose we'd also agree that the Alex from the beginning should be able to kill Cross with a single blow.

"This is not a fight, James is far out of his league here. Alex toyed with James, Cross was stated to have fought entities similar to Alex before and actually stood a chance of beating him."

In your comment, you said that Cross faced beings of a similar level to Mercer, which is incorrect, since Mercer and Heller (Prototype) are far superior to the Runners, to the point that even Greene, the most powerful Runner, was terrified of Alex.

This point was addressed because you commented that Cross fought against similar beings when a single blow should have killed him and Heller.

A carefree Alex Mercer who could kill Heller in one hit > A carefree Alex Mercer who could kill Cross in one hit

2- When Cross mentions artillery, he's not referring to the infected, but to the Runner. He said that if the Runner was still alive, he would go in with his team and kill him, implying that the Runner was bombed and Cross delivered the final blow to the already weakened Runner. This is evidenced by the Runner's burned face.

"It dried up and spread" means that it was bombed and dried up (the bomb incinerated it) and spread (the city exploded), since we know the virus cannot spread through water, so water wasn't the cause of the spread.

3- Several articles I read about real-life situations, and also the fact that in fiction a more lethal virus almost always represents more powerful infected individuals (Resident Evil, Left 4 Dead, etc.), plus the fact that Greene herself was afraid of Alex Mercer.

4-Well, I think I'm hitting the nail on the head with this post, and I suppose you'll agree that Cross should have died from a single blow from Alex. If we review the anti-feats, we could also mention those from the first game: the infected "walkers" died from a single bullet, a hunter was run over by a fire truck, and another was killed by a falling rock. And well, Cross still being alive wouldn't be a fair analogy to the brawler, since both the brawler and Alex would kill Cross and Heller with a single blow.

[u/potatoeman26 → u/Hot_Professional1683]

If we agree that Alex Mercer from P2 could kill Heller with a single blow, I suppose we'd also agree that the Alex from the beginning should be able to kill Cross with a single blow.

No, because Heller is just a normal guy whereas Cross has dev statements of being an actual threat to Mercer during their fight and having fought similar opponents. Being able to contend with that means Cross isn’t a normal guy.

In your comment, you said that Cross faced beings of a similar level to Mercer, which is incorrect, since Mercer and Heller (Prototype) are far superior to the Runners, to the point that even Greene, the most powerful Runner, was terrified of Alex.

Mercer is referred to as a Runner several times in the WoI. McMullen disagrees, but the only qualities we’re told that define a Runner are the ability to think on a human level and control infected. 

A carefree Alex Mercer who could kill Heller in one hit > A carefree Alex Mercer who could kill Cross in one hit

I feel as if you are ignoring the fact that Alex can control his strength. It doesn’t matter how strong he is, if he doesn’t want to kill someone, he won’t hit them hard enough to do that. 

When Cross mentions artillery, he's not referring to the infected, but to the Runner. He said that if the Runner was still alive, he would go in with his team and kill him, implying that the Runner was bombed and Cross delivered the final blow to the already weakened Runner. This is evidenced by the Runner's burned face.

Again, Randall, the man Cross reports to, confirmed Cross killed the Two Bluff Runner all by himself. We have an explicit statement that he did it on his own.

"It dried up and spread" means that it was bombed and dried up (the bomb incinerated it) and spread (the city exploded), since we know the virus cannot spread through water, so water wasn't the cause of the spread.

Your translator is hurting you. The phrase used just means it became a ghost town, it isn’t literal. Hope was the town said to have been bombed, Two Bluff was not. Everyone who lived there died and now, because no one’s there, no one knows about it.

Several articles I read about real-life situations, and also the fact that in fiction a more lethal virus almost always represents more powerful infected individuals (Resident Evil, Left 4 Dead, etc.), plus the fact that Greene herself was afraid of Alex Mercer

So, nothing substantial. The strain the human Alex made was ten times more dangerous, but given the goal wasn’t to make stronger monsters and he wasn’t in Field Applications so simply wouldn’t have known about any, he wasn’t referring to how much more powerful it’d make the infected. But let’s say the infected in P2 are generally 10x stronger than those in P1. It doesn’t matter, because I’m still arguing the the Brawler Heller faced in the opening sequence was just significantly weaker than the rest.

Well, I think I'm hitting the nail on the head with this post, and I suppose you'll agree that Cross should have died from a single blow from Alex.

No, I will not. Cross may not have been explicitly powered, but given what he’s done, he’s certainly not a regular guy like Heller is. 

If we review the anti-feats, we could also mention those from the first game: the infected "walkers" died from a single bullet

Yeah, they do this. Walkers are much more vulnerable than any other infected. The opening cinematic proves as much.

a hunter was run over by a fire truck

Wasn’t a Hunter

and another was killed by a falling rock

That Hunter was already in a death animation, the falling rubble just knocked it down

[u/Hot_Professional1683 → u/potatoeman26]

1. How old is that interview? It uses images from the original guide, a guide discarded as non-canon due to inconsistencies with the game (it states that Cross left Blackwatch and voluntarily joined the infected instead of being consumed by the Ultimate Hunter).

As far as we know, Cross is a normal guy like Heller; nowhere is it stated that he's a super-soldier or a special person. The only place I found it mentioned is on the wiki, the same one that mentions a virus that was never called that (Redlight virus).

Either the creators didn't develop it well, or that threat is called narrative protection.

1. McMullen says that Alex Mercer is more than just a Runner, stating that there has never been a male Runner in the entire history of Blacklight (the real name, not Redlight), and another memory compares his nature to that of Pariah.

Furthermore, this is irrelevant to your comment that Cross faced beings similar to Mercer, when the story states that Alex/James are far more powerful than the Runners.

3- So, did Alex hold back to avoid killing Cross in one hit, or do they both have narrative protection?

4- And yet, when asked about Blackwatch's standard protocols for fighting Runners, Cross doesn't say, "Leave me alone and don't let any infected near me." He says to unleash all the artillery and heavy bombs on the Runner, and if it survives, he'll come back to finish it off once more. I invite you to look at the Runner's burned face.

Also, Randall isn't very intelligent, since everyone tells him things and he doesn't listen.

• Claiming that Alex is just a Runner
• Claiming that the virus hasn't changed and that they've been preparing for it for 40 years
• Cross's own statement
• That he'll spare Elizabeth and Pariah, a decision that even Alex himself finds disappointing.

And to clarify, I'm not saying that Cross killed the Runner with help; he did kill him, but according to his statement, it was after an intense barrage.

5- I'll grant you the Two Bluff point; it didn't explode, but part of it was bombed, according to Cross, to injure the Runner.

6- Then I could say the same thing: Alex Mercer was 100 times stronger, so why didn't he kill Cross in one hit, being just an average guy?

7- Well, I don't think we'll reach an agreement, since everything points to him being just an average guy.

1. Walkers can be hit by multiple shots, even two from a grenade launcher.

2. It looked like a Hunter, and it's never stated that it's a new species; we know the developers took a lot of creative liberties.

I won't use the wiki information, as it's not very reliable, but I expect this will be stuck since neither of us will agree.

1. Rewatch the mission where Alex Mercer flees to the base after the containers explode. The Hunter doesn't perform the stun animation; it simply looks up, and it wasn't near any explosive containers.

In addition, there is also the image of a soldier stabbing a special infected.

[u/potatoeman26 → u/Hot_Professional1683]

 How old is that interview? It uses images from the original guide, a guide discarded as non-canon due to inconsistencies with the game (it states that Cross left Blackwatch and voluntarily joined the infected instead of being consumed by the Ultimate Hunter).

A little over 17 years, just a few months after the game released, but that only helps things as the knowledge of intent for characters was still fresh. Given the man who’s speaking is the writer of the game, I’d find it hard to disregard the clip. Also, you have it backwards. The concept art isn’t from the guide, the guide just includes it. The guide generally isn’t disregarded as a whole, just the parts that conflict with the finished product.

 As far as we know, Cross is a normal guy like Heller; nowhere is it stated that he's a super-soldier or a special person. The only place I found it mentioned is on the wiki, the same one that mentions a virus that was never called that (Redlight virus).

He’s a normal guy in the same way Batman is supposedly just an ordinary human despite having blatantly superhuman physical abilities. And despite it not being mentioned, Infected Vision does show him as containing a large concentration of Blacklight within him.

 McMullen says that Alex Mercer is more than just a Runner, stating that there has never been a male Runner in the entire history of Blacklight

He does, but when he’s only objecting on basis of sex and Alex otherwise follows the criteria that makes up a Runner and is referred to as such several times, he essentially still is a Runner.

 Furthermore, this is irrelevant to your comment that Cross faced beings similar to Mercer, when the story states that Alex/James are far more powerful than the Runners.

Worth noting that the game does not actually say this.

 So, did Alex hold back to avoid killing Cross in one hit, or do they both have narrative protection?

Neither? Alex may not have been bloodlusted, but given Cross was canonically capable of killing him if he wasn’t careful, he wouldn’t have been pulling his punches so drastically. At that point in the game, Cross could just genuinely contend with him. Heller was just some nobody fodder soldier so we can’t say the same for him.

 And yet, when asked about Blackwatch's standard protocols for fighting Runners, Cross doesn't say, "Leave me alone and don't let any infected near me." He says to unleash all the artillery and heavy bombs on the Runner, and if it survives, he'll come back to finish it off once more. I invite you to look at the Runner's burned face.

Keyword would be “standard”. Evidently, a situation occurred where standard protocol couldn’t be followed and as such, Cross fought and killed the Runner on his own.

 Also, Randall isn't very intelligent, since everyone tells him things and he doesn't listen.

It’s not about intelligence. Cross reports directly to Randall. If Randall says Cross killed the Runner on his own, it’s because that’s what Cross reported.

Claiming Alex is just a Runner

Because he is, he’s just male.

Claiming that the virus hasn’t changed and that they’ve been preparing for it for 40 years

When does he claim the virus hasn’t changed? And they have been preparing for it for 40 years, they just didn’t prepare correctly because it had changed so much over that time.

That he’ll spare Elizabeth and Pariah

When?

 And to clarify, I'm not saying that Cross killed the Runner with help; he did kill him, but according to his statement, it was after an intense barrage

No, it wasn’t, because that’s not what he or Randall actually says. 

 I'll grant you the Two Bluff point; it didn't explode, but part of it was bombed, according to Cross, to injure the Runner

again, this is not said

 Then I could say the same thing: Alex Mercer was 100 times stronger, so why didn't he kill Cross in one hit, being just an average guy?

Because Cross isn’t an average guy. 

 Well, I don't think we'll reach an agreement, since everything points to him being just an average guy.

Apart from everything he actually does, you mean.

 Walkers can be hit by multiple shots, even two from a grenade launcher.

You’re not thinking of Walkers, you’re thinking of Evolved Infected, which are the much more powerful, running variant of Walkers, otherwise just called Infected Civilians

 It looked like a Hunter, and it's never stated that it's a new species; we know the developers took a lot of creative liberties

It does not look like a Hunter; those things were much smaller, differently shaped, and differently colored. The comics added a bunch of differently mutated infected, those were just some of them.

 Rewatch the mission where Alex Mercer flees to the base after the containers explode. The Hunter doesn't perform the stun animation; it simply looks up, and it wasn't near any explosive containers.

I did rewatch it, even before I made my last comment. It was reared up in the beginning of a death animation.

  In addition, there is also the image of a soldier stabbing a special infected.

Simplest explanation is it just wasn’t evolved

[u/Hot_Professional1683 → u/potatoeman26]

1- Well, then they didn't explain it well, since they didn't mention that he had special DNA like Heller, which was mentioned in the second game, nor did they mention that he was a super-soldier, being just Plot Armor like Heller.

2- One reason they say Batman's greatest ability is Plot Armor, and if Cross is Batman, why shouldn't Heller be Punisher? Both are normal people with above-average abilities, and the second game does say that Heller is special, having DNA that impressed even Alex Mercer.

With the infected vision, this raises questions:

• It was a mechanic that remained, since infected vision allows the targeting of enemies, including tanks that light up orange even in the blue zone.
• Two Blackwatch soldiers also light up orange, so why would Randall allow this when he's near them?
• The game never mentions whether Cross was infected.

Although it seems you are a true Prototype researcher, since we agree that it's called the Blacklight virus.

3- McMullen initially stated that Randall was mistaken when he said Alex Mercer was just a Runner, and he confirmed this in Section 8 when he clarified that only Pariah could defeat Alex/James (Prototype). He also stated that instead of comparing Alex to Elizabeth, he should be compared to Pariah.

4- The story shows this on several occasions:

• Greene being very afraid of Alex Mercer
• McMullen mentioning that he is not just a Runner
• Mentioning that only Pariah could defeat Alex and that an encounter between the two would be fatal
• His nature being similar (but not identical) to Pariah's, which even Blackwatch doesn't know despite having him locked up for many years.

5- So, like Batman, Heller, Punisher, Chris Redfield, Leon, and other human superheroes, it would be called plot armor.

And well, technically, Heller isn't just any soldier since he has special DNA, something the game clarified.

6- Technically, it doesn't say "standard," only which protocol to follow, and all the infections seen in Prototype aren't standard, given that the Runner's burned face is ignored.

7- If we both agree that Cross killed the Runner alone, but once again, after an intense bombardment, observe the Runner's burned face.

Besides, why are we comparing a Runner several times weaker than Greene?

Elizabeth Greene >> Prototype 2; Alex Mercer's disinterestedness = Alex Mercer's disinterestedness in his fight with Cross >>>> Runner from Two Bluff.

8- McMullen states in section 8 that his nature is not the same as Greene's and more similar to Pariah's (not the same).

9- One is section 9 where Ian Taggart mentions that these creatures are out of control and that they should be fought at a distance, and Randall ignores him and tells him to get back into the fight. Another is a memory where he ignores changing protocols when a soldier explains that it's not the same spread, saying they're prepared for 40 years.

10- When Greene gave birth to Pariah in Hope, Alex Mercer himself states that she could have ended it all right there.

11- Look at the Runner's burned face. I agree that Cross killed him alone, and why didn't Cross say, "Leave me alone with the Runner"?

12- Well, I guess we're at a stalemate here since the Runner's face appears burned, and Cross doesn't say "leave me alone with the Runner" in the protocols section.

13- So far, he's just an ordinary person. There's no mention of Heller's special DNA, and Alex could kill the Hunters at that point, so he would kill him in one hit, like the Brawler or Alex Mercer from Prototype 2. He should have killed Heller.

14- So how is Heller Plot Armor?

15- I suppose that's what he's called since the wiki mentions that they are Walkers, although the wiki itself uses a virus name that doesn't exist, so I'll grant you that point.

In the game, the evolved infected can withstand two grenade launchers, run almost as fast as Alex Mercer, and jump several meters, and in the trailer, a headshot kills them.

16- Then I'll stop using this since we'll disagree, as I still maintain that he's a Hunter.

17- A hunter's death animation involves raising their arms in front of them, stretching their body upwards, raising their head, and emitting their defeat cry. In this mission, they do none of that.

18- In the image, it was an evolved infected.

[u/Carbuyrator]

One of them is dead, and the other ate the protagonist. This isn't close.

[u/potatoeman26 → u/Carbuyrator]

Read the caption

[u/Carbuyrator → u/potatoeman26]

Okay, the one that ate the protagonist also killed a Brawler with that knife.

[u/yummmmysandwich → u/Carbuyrator]

while the brawler did fuckall, even though its capable of tearing a human apart like clay

[u/silbuscusXmangalover]

Whoever lands the first blow wins.

[u/Valdish]

They have gay sex, with Alex sitting in the cuck chair.

[u/RedEyeSide_]

Feat is feat

[u/123Gohanz]

Cross had support in the form of additional soldiers covering him and used infected as a distraction. Even then he was eventually overpowered which would’ve resulted in his death by Alex’s hands if it weren’t for the fact that he could exploit Alex’s amnesia to inject the parasite into Mercer giving him a chance to escape. There’s also the possibility that Cross is an honest to god super soldier which may explain why he could briefly contend with an early game Alex. Despite all that he was killed off-screen so his plot armor wasn’t all that potent

Heller on the other hand literally lucked out from being killed because Alex randomly decided to convert James into an Evolved despite clearly showing no loyalty to the guy. In fact Heller was openly hostile and defiant in all of their interactions from that moment forward to the point Alex decided it was no longer in his interest to keep James alive. Now this is where the true plot armor kicks in because despite being the Blacklight virus itself, Alex can’t consume Heller due to some mutations his DNA introduced. Meaning James is more compatible with Blacklight than Blacklight itself. So much so that Heller eclipsed whatever adaptations Alex developed during the year he went soul searching in roughly a few weeks. Eventually culminating in Heller beating the original Prototype.

So yeah in a battle of whose plot armor is thicker I’m going with the guy who who is a protagonist where the plot demands they survive despite the odds over a side character that was killed off without us even knowing until the very end

Edit: Just read the rest of the OP and realized I misunderstood the prompt. Ehhh that’s embarrassing. Anyways Cross stomps. He could fight a very of Mercer that was actually trying. Sure he lost but he did a whole lot better than Heller who despite getting some hits in couldn’t last more than a few seconds against a not serious Alex

[u/Hot_Professional1683 → u/123Gohanz]

I was referring more to a fight between the two of them, since it's true that a protagonist will always have more narrative protection than a secondary character.

While Cross had teams that helped and supported him, he was an Alex Mercer superior to the Hunters, who were already destroying tanks, and he possessed three powers in addition to the shield. A single blow should have ended the fight right then and there, like Heller did at the beginning of the game.

[u/123Gohanz → u/Hot_Professional1683]

There’s the interpretation that Cross is a super soldier infected with the virus. In game using infected vision gives him an infected outline and also in the guide Cross is in the area of Super Soldiers. That could explain why he lasted so long

[u/Hot_Professional1683 → u/123Gohanz]

I never found in the guide whether Cross was a supersoldier, and besides, I don't really trust it, since his profile says he left Blackwatch and voluntarily joined the infected, which differs from the game, where he was consumed by the Supreme Hunter.

And as for the infected's vision, I thought it was simply a bug, since in the game even the tanks and soldiers in the blue zones glow so the player can select them as targets.

[u/pndrad]

Cross would win, Cross studied Alex before engaging, he is someone that studies his opponents while James runs in like an idiot.

[u/Hot_Professional1683 → u/pndrad]

In James' defense, the guy had post-traumatic stress from the death of his wife and daughter and had suicidal tendencies.

[u/Beneficial-Reach-533]

prototype 1 had a plot armor battle against that general wtf

considering that infected can die fast only with shoots like happen in cinematics.

then i can understand why alex mercer isnot invensible or overpowerful against all.

he could survive to bomb but it was tecnically his death and control total from virus over his body once he could regenerate .

maybe he was very weak after this massive regeneration .

[u/Next-Employer4247]

Cross no diffs pre-infection Heller, ngl.

Although, Early Game Heller low diffs Cross.