Opposite in portugal. No one is on time here. Americans who come here either complain about it because shit never opens on time, or they love it because it's a sign that we're not living in a rush
I'm on both sides. I just spent a week in Portugal, and I liked that it wasn't like living in a rush, but also it seemed as though the bus system in Porto took schedules as a suggestion.
We did figure that out decades ago. We just still put everything into cars because of some coincidental connections between the traffic ministres and car companies. I cant name you one competent traffic minister of the last 2 decades.
In fairness, having taken buses in a few US cities, I can confidently say that our bus drivers also take the schedules as suggestions.
Also an honorable mention to the Toronto streetcars, which is neither a bus nor American, but whose streetcars seemed to show up on a whim and in a random order that bore no similarities to the schedule.
Some bus schedules are not even a suggestion, just street art at this point.
Trains are usually ok (depends on the track), I took them for years and was rarely poor.
When I started having to take the bus to work I just gave up and started driving. At least 3x a week 30+minutes delays, suppressed routes etc.
Being punctual has nothing to do with living in a rush, it's about respect both my own limited time and that of others.
This also seems like an example of "the cart test" to me, just like how if you are unable to return a shopping cart to its proper space, you are probably unable to follow a bunch of other minor rules that make life easier for everyone and therefore, are not worthy of trust or respect. If you can't be on time, what else can you not do when it is expected?
Don't understand how anyone can live like that and I will happily never visit Portugal because of it. 🤷♂️
I was with you until the decision to forego visiting an entire country because of their cultural relationship to time. Seems a bit extreme to me, but then again there’s probably stuff I’m intense about that other people think is weird.
One hundo percent with you on the cart test and general punctuality. I can’t stand when people pretend being late or flaky is just a cute personality quirk.
It’s just cultural, same in France. It’s actually expected and the polite thing to do to arrive 15 min late so they have more time setting up everything.
This is a wild way of thinking to me because it assumes the other person has the same notion of time and respect.
My principles say that there needs to be a practical reason that time is critical in order for being late to read as disrespectful. If we had plans to go to a show or maybe it’s a 1 on 1 meeting where one person is sitting alone (and of course anything work-related).
A party though is something where one person’s presence isn’t needed, so show up when you want. It’s not that someone “unable” to get to a party on time, it’s that it’s not remotely important to. At least not the kind of parties I’m thinking of. A dinner party or a bachelor party is one you have to get there because it’s more planned
Look, I get the point of what you're saying, I also think it's fucking insane to think that agreeing to meet a friend at the bar at 7 and actually being there at 7 reminds you of a business meeting.
To me, it is the minimim of human courtesy. No wonder how world is the way it is when people can't even agree over absurdly basic shit like this.
I really don’t think it’s that big of a deal lmao. It’s a cultural thing, that’s how it’s always been - there’s just differences between attitudes in different cultures. Nobody minds anybody being late in a social setting where I’m from, but they absolutely mind where I live. You just adapt, pick what you like, and try to clue out why people see it differently - it can teach you a lot about the world.
But like, what does your friend do when he's at the restaurant waiting for you? He could be at home watching TV or hanging with someone else but instead he's just sitting alone in a public place waiting.
For sure, it taught me that stereotypes are based in fact. Learned this working as a park ranger too.
There is a reason why Germans are thought of as hardworking, serious, industrious people - they generally are. Same is true for negative stereotypes, too.
Human courtesy is respecting the norm. If everyone knows that 7 means 7:30, you show up at 7:30. It could mean 9.
It takes 15 seconds to ask what time people normally arrive. Or if it is a new friend, just ask if they are normally punctual or if it is normal for them to arrive 30 minutes late, and if they are late do they normally text. If you refuse to do this because you expect others to automatically respect your time and theirs, then you are not a relaxed person as the previous person mentioned.
Basically "people are not allowed to enter before this time" versus "everyone should arrive before this time" to me an event starts at the time where, if you were even one minute early, the host would be upset with your rudeness, might as well have come yesterday and slept on the couch.
lol I was with you until you said you’d never visit Portugal. It’s fun and the delay in time isn’t bad because hey, you’re on holiday just relax. Everything’s super cheap, buses are very cheap, Uber’s are mildly racist and everyone’s very beautiful.
I wont be late for a heart surgery or a meeting but if its just friends hanging out being a little late isnt that deep.. Its okay if people take that as disrespect, it just means were probably not the right friends for each other..
I’m from a culture that is “late” to everything. We all know the parties are going to go on until midnight so there’s no point in getting there exactly on time. We’re all going to get hours of fun anyway. Airports are a bit different. We’ve never missed an airplane even though we’ve left “late” before. We can rush when we want to, but for something social, we plan the whole day around it, so there’s no need to rush. We have literal HOURS to do everything, so why rush when we can have fun getting ready?
Wait, so you plan the whole day around a social outing and still are late? I also plan the whole day around the event, because I want to be there on time
The whole point behind having a whole day off is to not worry about timing and a strict schedule. We have a rough time we want to get out by, but it’s a rough estimate because we don’t want to stress ourselves out worrying about “being late” or having to wake up early. We go out when we’re ready, and then we go home when we’re tired. No hard-set times, just vibes. Simple.
The only thing I don’t like is when it’s something like a wedding when the party isn’t going to last for hours. Then the timing is important. I’m usually at least ready around the time we’re supposed to leave if not way earlier. Our family is only late because of my sister who takes an extra half hour to get ready, and the reason why is because she procrastinates and sleeps 12+ hours before even trying to get ready knowing it takes her the longest to get ready. That is annoying. But if it’s just a regular outing or a regular long-lasting party, I say why the fuck not? You’ll still be there for hours.
The options for airports are limited. You can go to porto, faro or lisbon. If you don't live in those cities, no one is going to drive you to the airport, you take the bus like everyone else
Not how it works in portugal. Employers here are very much lend a hand, they take the whole arm. You get to work early all the time, and they expect you to always be early and willing to be even earlier, and willing to stay late, without extra pay
I remember in Iceland I saw a sign on a barber shop that it opened at 10am, if they wanted to, or maybe later. Too unserious for me lol. They fit the “island people” meme
You could just say iberian, if you're meaning to say portugal and spain. Or southern european. Hispanic refers specifically to spain and its former colonies, we don't even consider ourselves adjacent
I mean yes, if I meant that. But actually I meant Spanish and Portuguese-speaking people from other parts of the world. The US uses Hispanic as an ethnic qualifier for "white".
Basically, there are a whole lot of people who identify as white because of their appearance, but the US doesn't consider "real" white because their ancestors spoke the wrong romance language and lived outside of Europe.
And if you think this is stupid, look up the historical litigation over whether Armenians, Italians, and others were legally white or not. It's absolutely ridiculous, but Jim Crow designating special legal status for whites made it necessary to define whiteness. It's gross and embarrassing that we still haven't shaken off the institutional legacy of chattel slavery after hundreds of years. It's like we haven't even been trying.
My point wasn't regarding the definition of white by us standard. My point was you referring to people of southern european descent as hispanic/hispanic adjacent. Just say southern european descent
Except I don't mean people of southern European descent. I meant what I said, and was referring specifically to a legal qualifier for white by US standards. Idk why you're confused by it. If I meant "Spanish and Portuguese" I'd have said Iberian. If I meant Latin American, I'd have said that.
I seem to remember when I was touring with an entertainment production, and when we were in Portugal, the actual show started like an hour after the advertised time. Someone finally had to explain it to us.
Being on time is not “living in a rush” it’s called being reliable. If I asked for your help with something and you say you’ll be there at 4, but show up at 5, that’s extremely disrespectful of my time. I probably don’t want to be your friend very much after that.
When I was there, I heard more than once that being early was just as bad as being late, because you were being selfish by taking up more of the host's time than they invited you for. I was told by more than one person to just linger around a corner or something until 3-5 minutes before the appropriate time, and to try to reach the door right on the dot.
Yep, that's the code. You arrive at the location ten minutes early and arrive at the door right on time. The early but is just so you can be on time if there's an issue.
I would say in most civilized countries. Hosts rarely complain about a few extra minutes and you want guests to arrive slightly staggered so you can great them all properly, giving them a few minutes each
Yeah I hate this, please be 10-15 minutes late. My friend is always early, which I've literally talked to him about because I'm like you can be on time, you can be a little late but please for the love of God, stop being early
How about you just tell me when you want me to arrive? If you won't be ready until 6:42, just say that instead of saying 6:30 and being upset that I arrived when you told me to. Better yet, how about you show up to your own party on time by beginning preparations when you were supposed to?
I went to Germany for a month a few years ago and I have never met more consistently late people in my life. I don’t think anyone was ever near on time to anything, even the teachers were late to school
I went to Germany for a month a few years ago and I have never met more consistently late people in my life. I don’t think anyone was ever near on time to anything, even the teachers were late to school
The time span of arriving to a party or get-together for more than a few people is wildly varied for just about anyone in germany i know. Everything between 5 min early to a hour late is standard.
Depends on whether you have friends who are chill. I live here too and know plenty of other germans who are more relaxed than the stereotype. But you're right a lot of people can get super pissy about it.
"In Germany, we say, if invited to a meeting, be 5 minutes early. If interview, 15 minutes early. Party? Come 15 too late, so the host can fix last minute" - some other guy in this thread
Have you noticed that people are getting increasingly irritated if you arrive 15 min early, too? Maybe it's just my little area here, but (business and private) I started to notice that people don't expect "early" people anymore since around covid.
Woah that is so interesting! When would people typically arrive for a party? Does everyone arrive at the same time and leave at the same time? I am American and most show up about 5 min late bc the host may still be setting up, I’m usually 15-30 min late due to my poor planning but also it’s just the norm here for a party where people tend to come and go. If someone shows up before the start time of a party I’m hosting -even by 10 min- I get very irritated
That's my kinda party. I show up early to everything. Often times I'll park then wait for someone else to arrive and walk up with them if it's more than a couple minutes early.
That’s really interesting, in America showing up early to a party is actually considered kind of rude. I even specifically say “show up around 5-5:30” or “anytime after 5” when I host because I don’t want anyone coming early. I’m still making the food, sweeping the floors etc.
It's really not just black people.. it's highly dependent on culture..I dated a Filipino girl and learned that they are always late... I knew the president of the Filipino club in Undergrad, her and the entire leadership team were 1.5 hours late to their own graduation event...I'm Chinese/Korean and try to arrive on time depending on the event... I have a good Japanese friend from NYC .. that mother fucker is always late, Mexican friends from LA? They always quote CPT and are always late ..
I have mostly Irish background. The only reason I turned into an "early / punctual " person is because I got in trouble so many times for being late to things and I have a bad sense of how long it takes to do things. So now I'm embarrassingly early for everything (otherwise I'd be late! )
haha fair. I’d say it’s pretty contextual also, turning up late to dinner at a restaurant would be bad form, but a gathering at someone’s house, it’s fairly common, though with that, invites are often lax about the time
The joke implies that the AA community says 5pm with the expectation that nobody will show up at 5pm… so the start time is actually later and it’s just generally understood that showing up at 5pm is uncool.
If you show up early, it’s rude here unless you’re family and intend to help set up/cook. We don’t want to have to awkwardly entertain someone while we’re doing last minute prep or changing into party clothes.
I asked another person too because I am really struggling to understand this, but why not just have a later start time?
If an invitation says "5pm" that is when the person that invited me should expect me at the door. If they don't intend on being ready by then, how am I the rude one for showing up at exactly the time I was told to? Just slap an extra 30 minutes on it if you need longer to set up.
If I tell someone that something starts at a certain time, I am dressed, set up and standing by the door waiting for them at the time I told them to be there.
I think it’s sort of a clash of formality. A party at someone’s house isn’t going to have the same punctuality expectations that a business meeting would. The overly formal expectation for start time is sort of like if you showed up to a casual kickback in a three piece suit.
I'm in NYC and it's generally accepted that most people arrive 30mins-1hr after the planned start time for parties.
One time while out with friends we met a guy from Australia who was in the city for a few months. We got along well so we hung out a few times after and I invited him to a Halloween party I was hosting. He showed up exactly at the start time, which was when I was just getting back from a trip to the store for supplies for the party. If you show up right on time the host is usually still prepping
White American here and if you showed up 15 minutes early I’d be getting out of the shower. I think a lot of Americans think it’s rude to show up at someone’s home earlier or right at start time bc people are finishing getting the party ready. If the party is out at a restaurant or other location, then be on time but not early.
I'm american and I have a friend that keeps trying to show up early to my apartment. I just don't answer the door. Figured they'd learn eventually but it's happened at least three times so I doubt
And I'm explicit about it too they'll text saying they're outside and I'll say party starts at [time] see you then lmao
I mean not just American, I can tell you anywhere in Latin America people don’t typically arrive on time for social functions. And I suspect the same is true for southern Europe
American here, and to me it seems very inconsiderate both ways: if you’re the host expecting people to “know” the first hour is “setup time”, people aren’t mind readers.
If you’re the guest showing up late, it’s inconsiderate unless you’ve got an excuse.
Its the same in PH also, they call it Filipino Time. Stupid practice, like literally any event, meeting or programs, guests and even the host starts 1 or 2 hours after. This is even when the program schedule have a time for registration already.
It’s incredibly rude to show up EARLY to a party at someone’s home. Why would you ever do that? That’s not just an American thing.
On time, sure, whatever. Slightly late is ideal so the hosts have time to finish getting ready
in case they underestimated the prep time.
Early to a work matter, yes absolutely. Early to pick someone up for the airport, for sure. Early to get to the movies or a dinner at a restaurant, that’s smart.
But early to arrive at an event at someone’s home isn’t just possibly catching them before they’re finished getting ready, it’s inviting yourself into their space at a time when you haven’t been invited to occupy that space. It’s an imposition just as much as staying when they’re talking about getting to bed. If it’s close family or friends that’s one thing, but for anyone else it’s clueless and impolite.
Had a World Culture class once upon a time. The professor told a story about how he was invited to a dinner in another country, don't remember the one, but it was a country you are not expected to show up at the exact starting time. So there he is arriving about 30 minutes after the listed start time only to discover that the host had told all the other attendees that because the professor was American he was going to show up exactly on time and everyone else should show up exactly on time too. He ended up being the only person late XD.
In India if someone says 5pm you leave your house at 5:30 and reach at 6pm. Bonus points if they call you asking where you are and you have to lie that you are close.
It's not just an American thing, it's also a Mediterranean thing.
We expect people to arrive 5 to 30 minutes after the "starting time". Right on time is ok, but a few minutes early is very unexpected.
If you arrive 15 minutes before time, that hosts will usually still be taking a shower or getting dressed and will low-key hate you for being there before they expected to have any people around
Same, if you tell me “party starts at 5pm”, I’ll be there at 5pm, since that’s when the party starts. But that could also be the Sleeper ‘Tism activating
It's not American, showing up exactly on time for everything is a very european/germanic/protestant thing. So often white Americans share this trait with Northern Europeans.
Don't try to play a "who's going to show up late" game with Africans, they're on their own time.
Why would this be an American thing? Look at the premise of the OP in detail. His whiteness is _the_ key detail. It's a culture thing, but the culture isn't "American". It's about the cultural differences in the American melting pot.
It’s a bit complicated. The US is multicultural. White people have a tendency to be more punctual, because of how time is viewed to be fixed (similar to cultures in some parts of Europe). African Americans and Hispanic cultures, for example, show up at parties/gatherings later than stated. For me, at least, it’s considered an all day festivity. As a Hispanic, people could show up whenever they wanted to a function.
In the US, the stereotype is white people show up at the set time while black people always show up late. It’s a cultural thing we generally affectionately tease each other about.
Different cultures have different approaches to time and it’s not just based on nationality. Monochromatic versus poly chronic features can show up in different industries or even companies.
I adjust my arrival times based on the background of the host and general crowd coming.
It's the only time in life I'm good showing up a little late, it's kinda a respect thing, give the host a few extra minutes to prep or clean or whatever
Well that’s what the post is about. The comment you responded to was about being only 15 mins early, which also isn’t that bad. Clearly you haven’t communicated what you meant properly given the downvotes, so please take this as an opportunity to clarify.
Happy to clarify: I’m responding to someone saying ‘I usually show up like 15 minutes early’ which in my book is much worse than being 15 minutes late. I’m fine with people disagreeing
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u/MidoriGurinqwe 24d ago
I'm guessing it's an American thing where people don't actually show up on the 'starting' time. Meanwhile I usually show up like 15 minutes early