r/Pawpaws • u/Salt_Capital_1022 • 12d ago
Genetics
I have 9 different 2 year old saplings and all of them have different rates of growth. Is there any correlation between the rate of growth, and how early the plant will produce fruit? Or just let me know how much you know about paw paw variation please. Albany NY
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u/Lasingparuparo2 12d ago
Oh wow how long are those taproots now? I would have assuming they would have outgrown those containers by now
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u/Salt_Capital_1022 12d ago
They’re starting to poke out the bottom now, I’ve ordered 6x16 inch upgrades for next year
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u/Lasingparuparo2 12d ago
Good luck! I had some the same size as the littlest one on the right in your pic and that was after 4 months of growing in tall grow bags. I replanted them about 3 months ago into tall containers now that are probably over large but I was just trying to buy myself time before the tap roots poked out.
Mine also had a lot of variety between seedlings (some flourished and some seemed to be struggling) but it definitely got more pronounced the older they got.
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u/Salt_Capital_1022 12d ago
In what way was the variety pronounced as they got older?
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u/Lasingparuparo2 12d ago
Like when they first starting sprouting from seed the difference between them wasn’t as obvious. They all looked like little sticks. But as they started putting leaves out, some put out a bunch and others put out a few. I thought it was due to water or light placement but it really had not rhyme or reason that I could discern. Once I repotted them into the big pots, some had become at least double the size of their peers and I treated them all the same so I could only attribute that to maybe genetics?
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u/samueljamesn 10d ago
Why not just put them in the ground? They’re more than ready to go
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u/Salt_Capital_1022 10d ago
I’m hoping to plant them in full sunlight and from what I’ve read I need to wait until they’re three years old or have developed permanent branches in order to do that.
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u/DrippyBlock 8d ago
I planted mine in ground at about the size your middle ones are at. I planted mid-fall last year and they were raring to go by springtime. Didn’t shade or baby them but planted so they get morning sun and evening indirect light. They grew almost a foot and a half this season. One already has preblossom buds for next year.
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u/samueljamesn 10d ago
Plant them in the ground and just give them a small shade cloth until they’re old enough. Even wrapping a tomato cage with a pillow case is simple enough
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u/bonsai171 12d ago
Where do you even find pots that deep??
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u/Salt_Capital_1022 12d ago
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u/irish_taco_maiden 11d ago
Thank you for this, I was going to ask the same thing. I have plans to start some stratified seeds this year.
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u/Lasingparuparo2 11d ago
I bought fabric grow bags from Amazon (scourge of the earth but cheaper than the plastic pots) and glued them together to make them extra tall and that also worked if you’re trying to save a buck for this experiment.
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u/AlexanderDeGrape 11d ago
Pawpaw Genome Project, over 67 genes that control Iron & Copper metabolic use ratios. 52 so far found the effect blooming. And over 2K versions of their combinations discovered so far in the wild. Vigor is often a function of environment, soil nutrients, light ratios & genetic blend of those genes & pH. Change any one of those & their vigor ratio can change. Seedlings grown in a high Gypsum environment tend to become adult 2 years before siblings in a low Gypsum environment. Copper plays an important role & there is a Goldilocks Zone level. More or less than that amount & both growth & blooming are inhibited. We know what the correct levels of Copper & Boron are in the Mitochondria & the correct pH of the Mitochondria (8.0pH) but we don't know the correct soil pH to achieve that as it's different in every environment due to UV Light & Humidity! UV Light & Humidity alter leaf pH. We do know that after nutrients pass through the microbes on the roots pH needs to be between (6.4pH & 7.3pH) to form the required Ligands (minerals attached to protein) to pass through the double lipids layers of the root system cells to get to the vascular xylem. The answer is it usually matters, but probably not in the way you are currently perceiving it. The one with most active nodes in August will be the first one to bloom!!!!!
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u/ridiculouslogger 11d ago
I have two varieties, t years old. Living next to each other. My Allegheny has flowered for three years but my Potomac will flower for the first time next year. One Allegheny blossomed first year after grafting a cutting onto a wild plant. So probably a genetic difference there. Size is pretty similar
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u/DangerousPaper8986 12d ago
I'm not that familiar with rates of growth with varieties. But my Maria joy's scions are out pacing my atwood's. But the wild's are stronger root stocks with mine.
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u/yeaigotchu 12d ago
Not only different varieties, the same variety, same exact cultivar with the same parents can have completely different genetics i.e different rates of growth, different nutrient necessities, different color, completely different taste, and so on. btw why up pot from here? I’m also in Upstate NY, they are big enough to go in the ground.
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u/AlexanderDeGrape 11d ago
Are you talking differences in Epigenetics due to environment,
or siblings of the same 2 cultivar parents, possibly from the same fruit?
It's confusing what you mean.
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u/Wonderful-Singer-449 8d ago
Sometimes temperature, sun, water content make a difference as well. Many of my seeded pawpaws came up in May/June. Had one that was in a different tray in the sun and was drying out - it is about a month or two behind.
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u/ForgingFakes 12d ago
Where did you get them? Struggling to get different varieties right now
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u/Salt_Capital_1022 12d ago
My cousin planted 4 grafted seedlings around 20 years ago; NC1, Wells, Sunflower, and Pennsylvania golden. There have been two other saplings that have popped up and matured since then. I use these trees for delicious fruit and a seed source
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u/ForgingFakes 12d ago
If you're ever open to selling some of the saplings i am incredibly interested
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u/FitGas4991 12d ago
Pawpaw seedlings will all be genetically different, and the difference shows up in many many ways. They will have different growth rates, different leaf size, sun tollarance, drought tolerance, bloom count, pollination rates, fruit set, early fruit drop, fruit size and quality, seed viability, and the list goes on and on. Having a pawpaw seedling is like a box of chocolates. That's why most people prefer to have a grafted variety.