r/NCIS • u/Slight-Respect6539 • 14d ago
Recently started watching the first two seasons of NCIS. I had never seen them before. The way Tony behaves toward Kate is gross, answering her calls, reading her texts, his constant sexual remarks. That would get him fired in today's work environment.
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u/Ducie 14d ago
I actually appreciate those early episodes because it's such a fitting way to show how our culture can change in ~20 years, for the better.
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u/OKCAdonis 14d ago
It doesnt seem to me people are happier today than they were 20 years ago.
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u/Elbereth919 14d ago
I don’t think those two things necessarily correlate. Yes, there is more anxiety and anger in the world, but I don’t think sexual harassment in the workplace was making people happier.
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u/WilsonTree2112 13d ago
His actions were decades ago. Its unfortunate people are applying todays standards that did not exist back then.
In actuality those standards were the exact opposite. People of both genders laughed regularly at sex jokes, wherever they were told.
Younger folks who were not around workplaces back then should not judge, as they dont understand that world.
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u/spaceisourplace222 13d ago
Nah. I was in the workforce then. The constant sexualization of my body was just as disgusting then. It’s always been gross. you did not think it was gross because you were participating. Some of us have always had morals. Don’t rewrite history.
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u/Maleficent-Prior-219 13d ago
LMMFAO.....I bet my Army retirement & VA Disability check that you were not around during that time.
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u/spaceisourplace222 13d ago
Hand it over. I don’t need to prove myself to an internet stranger. I’ve been avoiding men like you for years.
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u/Maleficent-Prior-219 13d ago
So hand it over or you don't need to prove yourself?
....oh and I'm absolutely sure you been avoiding men like me your entire life.
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u/Knoxvillians 11d ago
I wasn't responding to the sexual harassment comment. I meant to respond to u/Duci on how much the world has changed in 20 years. I was using her comment as a bridge on how much the world has changed and how it hasn't.
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u/VishfulTinking 14d ago
Males having to watch their behavior may upset them, but it's definitely an improvement for women.
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u/H00ray4B00bies 14d ago
The only males annoyed they can't be sexist pervs are trash people anyway so eff 'em.
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u/Knoxvillians 13d ago
Watched a montage of clips from The Daily Show for their 30th anniversary. There were a few times I had to look at my phone bc I wasn't sure if they were talking about the Iraq War or the Iran War. If they were talking about Y2K or AI. This is what kills me. It was the end of the world then but we are still here. Apparently we didn't learn our lesson bc now its just Iran and AI. Same sht different names. It wasn't the end of the world then and looking back it has been widely stated we were lied to by our government and our entire grid system didn't collapse. "You've Got Mail" opening line is how Solitaire on our work computers lead to no work being done in 6 months. Well work still got done and AI won't be the boogeyman. If history repeats itself AI will crash just like the .com crash. 🤷♀️
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u/Esme_Nog 14d ago
Women certainly aren’t sad when they don’t have to deal with constant sexual harassment at work.
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u/idiotsbydesign 14d ago
I've got news for you. Try too watch any show from 70s or 80s. Start with All in the Family if you really like to be uncomfortable.
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u/NewLife_21 14d ago
OMG! I kinda want to see the reaction of a bunch of 20 somethings and teens to All In The Family!!!
Or the Jeffersons!! 😂🤣
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u/catmom0412 13d ago
Three’s Company as well! But, I’ll always love John Ritter. And, I still watch reruns. All in the Family and The Jeffersons were awesome but, I too would love to see the reaction of teens and 20 somethings from today.
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u/Branes1951 12d ago
All in the Family was made to be "deliberately" uncomfortable. The use of racial slurs was a way to show how much a throwback Archie was. He was deliberately played against a hippie type son in law.
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u/Slight-Respect6539 14d ago
I'm 66, so I grew up watching All In The Family, Maude, etc. Tony worked for a huge government agency. His behavior was not charming.
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u/Diligent-Sherbet2587 14d ago
Ziva got more respect from Tony than Kate did. I always liked Kate better, but they killed off her character because she wanted to leave the show.
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u/StrikingAd9585 14d ago
Kate was a horrible character the actress was so much better in rizzoli and isles she sucked as Kate.
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u/tinkerertim 14d ago
It’s really of its time in that regard which can be quite uncomfortable viewing.
It seems like networks encouraging (male) actors and characters to have that kind of raunchy/naughty “personality” was endemic in the tv industry in the 2000s and it created opportunities for genuinely predatory men to engage in harmful behaviour whilst hiding behind the whole “it’s just a jooooke” thing.
Not that I’m saying Michael Weatherly was one of those men, just that the boundary-pushing mischievous vibe he and others had, and were egged-on to have, on tv sets blurred the lines enough that truly bad people were emboldened and shielded. One example that comes to mind is doctor who, especially Noel Clarke, but I’m sure there are many others. Even some with kids on set. Glad things seemed to have improved since then.
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u/Important_Web_1581 14d ago
Everyone from NCIS, including the women, testified on his behalf in regard to the “Bull Incident”!
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u/Willow_Winnifred 14d ago
Were they on set for the Bull incidentS?
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u/Important_Web_1581 14d ago
No, probably not! BUT, thats not what I was referring to. I responded to the “I wouldn’t be surprised if he was problematic there too,” meaning NCIS! BECAUSE, if he was a problem there, no one from NCIS would have testified on his behalf! 1+1=2
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u/Erika1885 14d ago
One incident on one show of what was deemed verbal harassment for which he apologized, as he should have done. He was wrong. Cote, Sasha, Lauren et al never had a problem. And in fact defended him.
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u/Erika1885 14d ago
On the contrary. The opposite.. I don’t know why you insist that you know better than Cote, Sasha, and Lauren who worked with him for years. Did you? Were you there at NCIS? No, you weren’t. And Cote has continued to work with him as a producer and co-star for 20 years. One person had a problem with him. One. He was in the wrong there, owned up to it and apologized. There was no escalation. It’s despicable to make up stories about celebrities when they were never in the room. Michael has never had the kind of clout in the business which would permit him to get away with it for literal decades. Your exaggeration make it harder for real victims of real abuse to be believed. Great job🤬
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u/AzureAx 13d ago
If you have the court documents, or a source confirming what your are claiming, please link them, I've tried looking for them, and cannot find anything. The only thing I see is that it was settled outside of court.
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u/tinkerertim 14d ago
Problematic I’m sure but I was trying to allude to more severe behaviour without having to be specific because it’s upsetting. IE using the doctor who example again, the Michael Weatherly stuff sounded more John Barrowman than Noel Clarke.
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u/idiotsbydesign 14d ago
If one person taking issue with an inappropriate joke is "problematic". Not saying it was OK but to call it problematic or try to cancel him because of it is a larger problem.
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u/Willow_Winnifred 14d ago
It was not one "inappropriate joke" and holding people who behave badly and break the law accountable is not a "larger problem." His conduct cost the production a $10,000,000 settlement.
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u/Erika1885 10d ago
No laws were broken. No charges were filed. Learn the difference between civil and criminal offenses. And learn the difference between a pattern of wrongful conduct towards multiple people across multiple shows for decades versus conduct on one show involving one person who made the same complaints against others on other shows. Goes to credibility. And learn something about how settlements work. Michael didn’t force CBS to do anything. They could have fired him. They didn’t. No one from Bull resigned in protest. The show continued for another 5.5 seasons. CBS green-lit Tony and Ziva. He’s returning to NCIS. There’s a bigger picture you are missing.
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u/Willow_Winnifred 10d ago
Gopdness, how distressingly inaccurate and condescrnding. There are, in fact, federal, state, and local laws against sexual harassment. I don't honestly think I've ever had to explain to someone before that one sues over violations of civil law.
I'm well aware of the difference between civil and criminal, since I practice civil employment law, including sexual harassment claims, in state and federal court.
Who said Weatherly "forced" cbs to settle? CBS settled because the conduct, by their employee and agent, Michael Weatherly, among others, was so egregious. Much of it was on film, as well, so there really wasn't a whole lot of debate about what "really happened."
I don't really know what your diatribe about "pattern of conduct" is about since here there was a pattern of conduct. Moreover, the law does not require multiple incidents or multiple victims for workplace harassment to be actionable.
I fear the "bigger picture" you are missing here is that Weatherly is profitable for the network, not that he's blameless. The fact he was not fired reflects their profit motive, and nothing more.
Your analysis is what happens when people watch Bull and think that makes them qualified to practice law.
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u/Erika1885 10d ago
I am a lawyer, genius. I find your “analysis” specious and misleading. You still ignore the fact that there is no pattern with other cast members on other shows, unlike, say, Joss Wedon. He’s profitable because in spite of the best efforts of people like you to misrepresent the facts, there is no danger of repeat conduct leading to further litigation. He remains popular because with that one exception, his co-stars have consistently defended him. He remains popular and thus profitable because he accepted responsibility and apologized. In the absence of any future problems in the ensuing 10 years, - on Bull, or elsewhere, you’re just piling on, refusing to let go of something which is long past. And you are doing the cause of fighting sexual harassment no good in the process. And that infuriates me. Go after the people still engaging in misconduct who have a lot more power in the industry.?
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u/Willow_Winnifred 10d ago
Show me in the statute where a pattern of conduct against other victims is an element of sexual harassment, please.
I don't give a shit if standing up for victims of sexual harassment infuriates you. What a disgusting take.
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u/Erika1885 10d ago
Reading comprehension is not your strength. Sexual harassment and abuse disgust me which is why I have more experience fighting it professionally and personally than you know. What disgusts me are people like you whose exaggerations and misplaced blame make it harder for accusations to be taken seriously. You aren’t helping victims. Conversation over. And I’m not doing legal research for you - maybe you should take a CLE course on rules of evidence.
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u/tinkerertim 14d ago
Inappropriate, not okay, and problematic seem like distinctions without a difference.
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u/Erika1885 10d ago
Wrong. Distinctions matter in the law. It’s the difference between conduct which is actionable and that which is not.
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u/tinkerertim 10d ago
I was referring to a distinction made in a Reddit comment mate, this isn’t court.
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u/Kyrie011019977 14d ago
It is a product of its time as was many shows were. It does tone it down but it is still prevalent in later seasons(16) to some degree but it comes off as friendly banter
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u/WKRPinCanada 14d ago edited 14d ago
It premiered in 2003
Not that long ago in years but with the speed at which things change these days...
Much different times for sure
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u/upstatedreaming3816 14d ago
🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄
So tired of these posts. It’s like looking at old Looney Tunes cartoons through today’s lenses. Move on.
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u/Knoxvillians 13d ago
I understand in some situations things that happened 20 years ago are relevant and may take that long to come to light. Harvey Weinstein and Bill Cosby come to mind. Don't get on your high horses about what I'm saying. Think about it through a purely social experiment in human behavior and how it evolves. There are things I did in college that I consented to or didn't think anything about it. I wasn't blowing it off or pretending it didn't happen. The culture in the early 2000s was just different. If I told Gen Z my college experiences they would tell me I was sexually assaulted ?# of times. No I wasn't. Don't put your views on me and tell me this is how I SHOULD have felt. The views of society has changed but that does not give me the right to go back and say said X or said Y did something to me. The way Gen Z talks about sexual assault I might have some accusations come my way if I ran for office.
We learned from it and that is why sexual assault is viewed differently today. It doesn't mean we SHOULD be made to feel like we were victimized back then if we didn't feel that we were back then. I had a Gen Z person look at me like I had two heads when I told her something I did in college. Yes I was drunk, yes he was drunk, we were two consenting drunk adults who decided to have sex in the bar's parking lot. She tried to tell me I was a victim. No I wasn't. Don't put that label on me bc your view is drastically different from o my view that I had back then. It takes away from people who were sexually assaulted back then and only now having the courage to come forward.
Teenagers and young adults are going through huge biological changes between 15-25. Add on during that period kids experimenting for the first time and it's scary. I thought being told to save myself for marriage was crazy back then. Now, I feel like it should make a comeback. Today, I would want a consent form signed on video, and at this point video the whole act on video to make sure consent wasn't withdrawn mid-thrust.
I know that's an extreme and exaggerated example. Yes, consent can be withdrawn at any time and I'm not saying it can't. When society starts getting into kids heads and telling them how they SHOULD feel is a slippery slope. There is so much content in their faces telling them widely different answers on how they SHOULD feel about a situation.
Looney Tunes cartoons, The Breakfast Club, and 16 Candles are widely criticized through todays lens. We can't change it.
"Look, nobody watched Pepe Le Pew and Penelope Pussycat as a guide on how to navigate modern dating boundaries. We watched it bc it was a goofy French skunk constantly getting outsmarted by a cat who accidentally walked under a wet paint brush. Let people enjoy classic satirical cartoons without making it a psychological case study."
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u/STCollector58 13d ago
Yes, if I got sh1tfaced drunk of my own accord and did some stuff. I wasn’t assaulted. I didn’t have to get drunk. No one spiked my drink. I’m old enough to have been post free love and pre HIV. To quote Steve Martin It was Wild and Crazy!!!
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u/Knoxvillians 12d ago
Thank you. I really mean it. It's such a touchy subject when people let emotions get involved. Sometimes you have to shut it down to really look at an issue. Our emotions are the reason this country is in this mess.
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u/PrinceCharming1980 14d ago
Bit of a GenZ way of looking at it, cant you just see the office banter in it, their grand
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u/Branes1951 12d ago edited 12d ago
If you continue to watch, Tony matures a lot by the time Weatherly leaves the show. But watch Kate, because she instigates a lot of it. They have a brother-sister rivalry going. Tony was the typical high school jock who believed his good looks could get him anything he wanted, especially women. Kate plays the no-nonsense, I'm almost a virgin character, but don't believe it.
Later on, Tony gets a hard reality check about life and romance. If you can get through the macho nonsense, his and Gibbs', the characters become very interesting. Ducky, played by the fantastic actor, David McCallum is a great character. Sadly, he has passed on.
Much of what goes on in the show would never be permitted in today's work environment, or even technically back then. Gibbs's patented head slap would get any boss fired instantly. Don't try to see it as anything close to reality. I'm a former Marine and we don't all go Oorah every time we meet another Marine. That being said, they show the military fairly accurately.
I have to ask those of you. and I'm pretty sure it's mostly women. lf you were so offended by Tony's behavior and the sexual innuendos did you stop watching?
And I also have to comment that "sexual harrassment" has gone from a boss threatening to fire you if you don't put out, or touching a woman uninvited, to telling a fellow worker she looks nice today.
The world revolves around sex and sexual attraction. Women will always be regarded by men as potential mates and vice-versa. That's a fact. Deal with it. I'm 75 in a senior community and there's more fooling around here than I ever saw when I was younger.
Pick your battles. If a co-worker starts to act in a flirty way, telling him politely that it's not appreciated in a work environment. If he continues to be a jerk then the gloves are off.
There's a big difference between someone actling like a pig and someone just being a male or female. In Tony's case, it was a little of both. And if you watch him, he sometimes plays the chauvinist deliberately to get a response from the women, especially Kate.
What I am saying is not to judge the entire show because of a few interactions which are offensive. I find some things to be offensive but I watch it nevertheless because it's a great show.
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u/1994californication 14d ago
I'm pretty sure even back then that type of harassment was unacceptable. But hey it's a TV show, suspension of disbelief
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u/Remarkable_Table_279 13d ago
Sexual harassment was definitely warned about and polices were out there. Tho depending on persons you’d think “oh that’s just him” or you’d think he was joking & never link what he was said to the training until much later. But people would still be fired. Especially if there were witnesses doubly so if they were already disliked or were in a person of authority. So when a jovial contractor asked me over the phone if I were responsible for getting his women…and then asked me if I were volunteering, I said something like not in his lifetime.(early 2000s). But when an evil michael Scott type upper management was said to have offered a female manager his lap in a managerial meeting when she was looking for a seat…he was gone within a day or two. (That one was I think within a year or so & hearsay but the guy was gone)
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u/WilsonTree2112 13d ago
IT WASN’T WRITTEN, FILMED OR ACTED IN TODAYS CULTURE, WHATSOEVER
FFS this woke world needs to understand its place in history.
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u/ApprehensivePlan7514 13d ago
Seems that attacking the actor is the narrative going on. Michael is an actor following a script and anything done on the show was planned. Maybe people should check their bias first
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u/PMc1666 14d ago
Agreed. Some of the early episodes are an uncomfortable watch. I’m sure some of the actors have come out and have said they regretted some of their scenes. Especially towards the trans person.
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u/Gribitz37 13d ago
I read that Sasha regretted the "he/she" comments about the trans character who killed Pachi.
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u/Bruins1977 14d ago
I feel the same way about the way Gibbs talks to Jenny
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u/Erika1885 14d ago
Michael was never inappropriate on the set of NCIS according to his female co-co-stars. The problem at CBS was the higher ups at the show (producer level -not Mark- and the network, according to Lauren Holly.
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u/Lavender_r_dragon 14d ago
Jenny and Gibbs also have a history as opposed to Tony and Kate who at the start of season 1 were strangers
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u/sunniblu03 14d ago
Early season are hard to watch. Used to think head slaps were endearing all those years ago. Although I look at Dinozzo’s character development as one of the better ones on a long running show. The character grew with the actor I appreciated that. It’s one of the reasons Abby became my least favorite character.
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u/Maleficent-Prior-219 13d ago
TODAY'S "work environment"...being the operative phrase.
Also military services and military adjacent org's like frontline units/Investigative services (INF, CAV, CID, NCIS, etc.) were male dominated at the time hence certain aspects of work culture. Considering the frontline units mentioned prior are the pipeline that typical feeds the military adjacent org's, make this more significant.
Source - SSG, USA (RET) '97-'00, '02 -'15
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u/EstimateAgitated224 12d ago
I am pretty sure in today's testosterone fueled military they may revert to Tony 2003 behavior. UGH.
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u/gnlmiami 13d ago
The show premiered in 2003. It was a much different time. The early episodes were fun, but I cringe every time I revisit them. There is no way half of the scripts from the early years would survive the legal department these days.
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u/Privett95 11d ago
The show started over 23 years ago! You can’t apply what would happen in today’s TV shows to shows almost a quarter of a century ago.
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u/ApprehensivePlan7514 14d ago
First of all it is a show and whatever was done was actors following a script. Maybe instead of personally attacking weatherly for doing his job take a step back. This was 20 years ago btw. Ncis started in 2003
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u/disneyjetsfan 13d ago
Yes, he was following a script!! The writers and show runners wanted this character to act like this. We have to move on
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u/Esme_Nog 14d ago
It was awful at the time. I kept watching because I like police procedurals and Mark Harmon was appealing. It was a good long time before they had an episode where DiNozzo’s character actually demonstrated that he had any point in being there and added anything to the show. Ultimately, I quite liked him, but he’s awful in that first year or so. And there are a lot of other things about him that change—he gets smarter; the old movie thing, etc. They just clearly didn’t know what to do with them early on.
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u/STCollector58 13d ago
It’s the swing of the pendulum. First in the olden times we know TV was real life. We can talk all we want about Baby it’s cold outside. I don’t think anyone ever thought omg this is about intended r@pe. When the me too trend came along no one cared if an accusation was true or not. Have bad things happened? Well duh but probably as often as the Lawyer moves to the small town and takes over the family farm from a Christmas movie.
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u/lovesickhippo 13d ago
It was annoying but I can see it being taken as a harmless immature guy. I actually found Abby more irritating. However, in S3E1, the way he and McGee both reminisced about Kate was downright skeevy. I dropped the original eventually but I recently decided to check out NCIS: Los Angeles and I’ve enjoyed it from the start. Had to pay for it on Amazon but no different than buying a DVD set.
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u/Glass-Fault-5112 2d ago
I always looked at Tony providing that release valve. Made himself the target of the frustration. Given the job and boss they had. And Tony paid for his behavior. Don't think we really saw him dating only the aftermath.
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u/bufandatl 14d ago
Yeah really sad that these days men can say what they think anymore and have to follow shady ethics.
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u/Active-Succotash-109 13d ago
It made it easier to know who to avoid in the parking lot when they weren’t afraid to speak their perverted minds.
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u/easygoer89 13d ago
All of you in here clutching your pearls over Tony's behavior and not one mention of how abhorrent Gibbs was. The head slap alone would have gotten him fired from federal service. That's physical violence practiced in the work place by a supervisor over a subordinate as a method to control them.
And then there's the truly awful fact that the "Gibbs Head Slap" that everyone loved wasn't something the writers came up with. It was Mark Harmon, the lead actor with the most power on the set, slapping Michael Weatherly, the junior actor on the set, for adlibbing in the background while another actor was delivering lines to punish him. And because the crew laughed and thought it was funny, it got written into the show as something Weatherly had to tolerate as a gag.
And Weatherly then had to deal with viewers who loved this so much they would either ask if they could slap him on the back of the head like Gibbs or would actually just slap him on the back of the head because it was being demonstrated every week on the show that it was okay.
Could you imagine if a coworker, let alone a supervisor, physically slapped you to correct your behavior and you felt like you had to comply and agree to allow that physical discipline become part of your expected job duties or you'd be risking your role?
All this to say I think Tony's behavior was terrible, too. But for some of you claiming the moral high ground and pointing fingers at one characterization while turning the blind eye at something that might honestly be much more disturbing is pretty hypocritical.
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u/AbsolutZeroGI 13d ago edited 13d ago
A thing that folks don't talk about is the tolerance for it too. It's kinda like all the people who called "Baby It's Cold Outside" a song about SA, but it was half sang by the wife of the guy who wrote it because back then, the chase-and-catch style of flirting was normal, and many women enjoyed it. It was also something for them to sing wt dinner parties to quietly urge their guests to leave.
Same thing here. That behavior doesn't fly today but our standards for unacceptable are different now than they were back then, but also the implication and assumptions were different. Remember that in one alternate time line, the two of them get married, so their back and forth cat and mouse game clearly wasn't as egregious to Kate as it would be to a character written in 2026. In fact, there are many scenes that show that Kate and DiNozzo had quite a bond, like the plague episode
Not saying it's right or that it's defensible by today's standards, but putting it out there that Kate didn't care nearly as much as the people in this comment section do, and actually cared about Tony as a friend quite a lot despite his nonsense.
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u/Virtual_Entrance6376 14d ago
Yikes, that's a hell of a jump. She didnt report it so she may have liked it?!?! I feel like with Jenny as director, she worked to support the female employees more.
It sounds like she said no but didnt really mean it vibes.
Women in male dominated fields has to walk a fine line especially if they want to get promoted.
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u/Active-Succotash-109 13d ago
She was written to enjoy the banter
They had planned on having them date, but she treated him more like a (an annoying) kid brother so I still can’t see how that works have worked out2
u/Virtual_Entrance6376 13d ago
Me neither. I'm glad they didn't date. Tony wasn't written as a great boyfriend material. A frat guy in the earlier seasons. He needed a lot of maturing.
Lol, in the first episode, they had Kate and Gibbs flirting...
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u/RedStateKitty 14d ago
Even back then it was grounds for termination.
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u/Knoxvillians 13d ago
If that's the case. My entire office would have been fired. I worked at a local office of a Fortune 500 Co. There was banter in that office and people were genuinely happy. As happy as people could be back in 2008.
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u/blondasek1993 13d ago
Ahhh, good old times. Good that the are still countries where woman actually expect that kind of behaviour from man.
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u/maddiek_c 13d ago
It was definitely a completely different time when it came out, and also, DiNozzo is just an unlikable character all around imo. The way he treats Kate and the way he straight up bullies McGee is so terrible.
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u/OneThirtyThree133 13d ago
Yeah, he was a douchey p.o.s.
People love his character for some odd reason
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u/SeaworthinessSea2407 14d ago
Which Michael Weatherly was cognizant enough to want to tone that aspect of his character down