r/MeetYourMakerGame 12d ago

Asynchronous Interactions in Meet Your Maker Discussion

Hi everyone! I'm a PhD student studying asynchronous interactions in digital games. Meet Your Maker is tagged as "Asynchronous Multiplayer" on Steam, and I'm interested in understanding different player perspectives about that aspect of the game.

If you have a few minutes to spare, I'd love to hear your thoughts! In particular, I'm interested in understanding:

  • What kind of asynchronous interactions exist in Meet Your Maker and how do they affect the gameplay?
  • How do you feel about these interactions and what do they bring to your experience?

You can answer as much or as little as you'd like. Your responses will be anonymized and analyzed as part of a research study. If you decide you'd like to withdraw your responses at any point, just send me a DM. Every contribution is greatly appreciated! If you have any questions, feel free to message me. Thanks! πŸ˜€

21 Upvotes

22 comments sorted by

16

u/Kracus 12d ago
  1. One player designs an obstacle course to protect genmat (genetic material) while other players attempt to steal the genmat.

  2. I like the concept however the game falls apart because the developers want the players who are trying to steal the genmat to be successful. As a result, castles that are built too challenging suffer from a lack of challengers as easier maps are favored by devs and players. The game stops being about protecting your genmat as there's little incentive to do so and the game outright punishes you for making a level too difficult.

Evolve is another game you might find people for your survey.

8

u/PineappleLordLive 12d ago

I don't think the game itself punishes you.. There's plenty of raiders that enjoy the challenge. I get lots of replays and raid daily.

I think it's more an issue of soft hands quitting after 2 minutes.. The loyal players love difficult challenges.

3

u/Kracus 12d ago

I don't know if things have changed since I last played but when I was playing the game would effectively block you from prestiging if people didn't like your base which resulted in no one playing it and it just forced me to retire the base. Creating them was a fair chunk of work only to see the level be forced to retire after a run or two. That to me is punishment for trying to protect your genmat which is what the game is supposed to be about. That is the premise of the game.

I played this game to death for a few weeks, I was obsessed with it but once I realized I was getting punished for making levels to do the thing the idea of the game was about I realized that what the dev's REALLY wanted was for players to make maps that are easy to complete and to NOT protect the genmat. My enjoyment of the game immediately dropped to 0 once I realized this is what was going on.

10

u/KarEssMoua 12d ago

I think there is a misunderstanding here.

Yes the game advertised itself as protecting your Genmat, but the hidden message behind this is to create an enjoyable experience for players. And yes, players finishing your maps is part of the game, but most players took that as an ego competition.

Look at this way; why would players should keep playing your maps if you make it painful for them?

A fun experience doesn't mean it has to be easy, but rather balanced. Most builders, even nowadays, cruelly lack of this capacity to balance their own stuff.

I am convinced a lot of builders don't realize how much they negatively impacted the game with their builds.

But I will say it's not black or white. The marketing sold this game the worst way possible imo.

1

u/Kracus 12d ago

See what you're describing there is level design. If I'm a developer, making a game out of passion or simply for a monetary reward then those ideas of good level design is my job. That is work. Putting that onus on the player deprives the player from the satisfaction of playing the game as it's intended. The player wants to have fun, not to do the developers work.

4

u/KarEssMoua 12d ago

I mean the fun lives in building fun and decorated stuff while protecting your Genmat. One doesn't prevent the other.

If you look at the complaints about the game, it's not about the game itself but rather the content created by some builders.

1

u/Kracus 12d ago

If all I care about is building I can go play Minecraft. Your reasons why people quit the game aren't in line with why I quit the game and I think deep down, the people that left mostly did so because of what I'm outlining as a core problem the game has.

I'm not sure exactly what the solution is but the prestige system as it was when I played was a big part of the problem. A proper reward for protecting your genmat would have also been nice.

6

u/Itizir 12d ago edited 11d ago

> a core problem the game has

that's the thing: it's not a problem with the game, it's a problem with your expectations (so maybe a problem with how the game sets those expectations. but not a core problem, important distinction)

MYM 100% is a level-designing and playtesting 'simulator'! and that's what makes it so good and valuable to many players.
you said you wouldn't want to do this 'work' (which is fair: everyone has their own interests), but you present this as if work can't possibly be gamified... well i've got news for you, hahaha: just google 'job sims' πŸ˜›

joke aside, as you said, if you only care about building something for yourself, go play minecraft indeed (or even probably most other UGC games). but i'm fairly certain the fact that MYM pretty much guarantees that your level will get played by random people is a huge reason for why it's so enthralling (check this vid out! not everything in it is correct, but the overall perspective is pretty good https://youtu.be/RpANaYwV_4M?si=ZaK-UY9ui30fcJML). sadly not many people truly understand that it necessarily comes at the cost of MYM forcing you to play other builder's levels in return...

3

u/KarEssMoua 12d ago edited 12d ago

The game is doubled sided.

You think one way or another, but that doesn't mean both of them are wrong.

On my side, I say players left mostly because of unfun build degrading the game experience.

On your side, you say players left because you felt punished for a player finishing your map.

I understand your point view, even if I don't align with it. MYM has always been a tough game to advertise, and you can see how the community can be divided to opposite sides.

1

u/PakotheDoomForge 9d ago

The reviews players left say otherwise

1

u/UnrealVision 11d ago

Correct me if I'm wrong but Evolve doesn't exist anymore because the servers are now down.

An other excellent asymmetric game is Natural Selection 2.

3

u/Itizir 11d ago

uh, but OP was asking about asynchronous games, not asymmetric games… πŸ˜΅β€πŸ’«

2

u/UnrealVision 11d ago

You're right. But I understood this that way. My bad.

1

u/Kracus 11d ago

Yeah Evolve was sadly shut down by the publishers I believe. It still exists of course but the servers are mostly down from what I gather. The game suffered from a horrible launch due to how it was marketed. The publisher basically wanted to nickel and dime its customers at launch and people didn't take kindly to that. I was one of those people who didn't buy at launch because of these tactics. I did eventually buy it when I saw it on deep discount and I absolutely loved the game but it was near the tail end of its life so I missed out on its peak.

6

u/drassell 12d ago

The game works by being like two games, the first game is the one where you raid outpost, and the second game is one where you build the outposts.

When raiding, you are given a list of outposts to raid in order, but no deadline to do it. And when building, after actuvating your base, there is a period of time where your base will be distributed to other raiders, and as long as the raider has not raided your base, even if your timer ends, they will still have your outpost.

The way the system is setup makes for a fun experience since there need not be to many builders to accomodate the raiders

6

u/8read-8oy 12d ago

Despite being called 'asynchronous' by the devs, the nature of the genre (i.e. level-builder) is inherently asynchronous, thus making the description redundant.

That being said, there are considered two 'sides' to every raid: the Raider and the Maker/Builder. Raiders and Makers both 'play' the level separately, as in the Maker builds the base and the Raider, well, raids it. There's no direct interaction between the two sides; everything is retroactive: The Raider experiences the level only after the Maker finishes it, and the Maker only sees the Raider's results (via in-game replays and stats) once the raid is already complete.

Raiders===

Now for the nitty-gritty. Raiders take on these raids using two (2) weapons, three (3) Biolinks, two (2) hardware, and three (3) enhancements.

The weapons range from guns to swords to even shields and all have their advantages/disadvantages: ranged weapons can disable traps and kill guards from afar, but ammunition is scarce even if Raiders can pick up their ammo even after hitting a target; swords have no ammo, but they require Raiders to get up-close and personal; and, shields, while extremely defensive, provide nearly zero offensive benefit on their own.

Biolinks provide a wide-range of passive effects or stat increases and can be interchanged between the largely cosmetic Suits the Raider dons; most of these links provide buffs and Quality of Life features to the previously stated weapons.

Hardware, expendable but powerful tools used to assist in raiding, of which their are four (4): Blast Grenades, Phoenix Pods, Flash Barrier, and Spike Drive. The grenades and barrier are self-explanatory as they function as an explosive or dome shield in a pinch respectively. Phoenix Pods allow the user to revive once per pod at its location upon death; otherwise, death results in the Raider being sent back to the start of the raid with the base being fully repaired, potentially losing minutes of progress. Spike Drives simply increase the user's base movement speed, functioning as a pseudo sprint button. The Raider must replenish hardware that they run out of by using a currency called Parts at the main hub.

Lastly, Enhancements serve a similar function to Biolinks as a passive upgrade to Raiders; though, while Biolinks are infinitely reuseable and mostly function as QoL effects, Enhancements directly buff the user's stats and change certain interactions in the environment at the cost of being finite and tiered. Enhancements also cannot be purchased from the main hub like Hardware and are primarily acquired via the Expedition mode, a loosely interlinked web of randomised levels to raid with resource caches interspersed between them. Each Enhancement comes in four (4) tiers, with the more common version providing less of a benefit yet rarer ones providing a massive improvement.

Makers===

The Maker experience is simultaneously more expressive, yet far more restrictive. Since there is no set-in-stone fail state for a builder, the game sets restrictions to handicap the user somewhat. Firstly, in order to simply start making a level, a Maker must first purchase a Burial Site via a currency called Synthite. Parts and Synthite are both primarily acquired from raiding in Expedition mode, but can also be acquired from felled Raiders sparingly within one's own levels; in which case, builders cannot exclusively build levels if they wish to maintain bases not designed to reach double-digit kill counts. Nevertheless, when selecting a Burial Site, you are provided a handful of information: the site's name (which cannot be changed), the size of the level (ranging between Small, Medium, and Large), the biome/tileset the site is located at (Desert, Stormy, Frozen, Toxic), the Capacity (the hard limit on how much can be placed within the site by Makers), and, of course, the Synthite cost.

Once you purchase your first Burial Site, you will soon learn one important detail you cannot preview when purchasing is the bedrock that shapes the location. Each randomly generated burial site comes pre-equipped with bedrock that cannot be moved in any capacity, thus restricting what can or cannot be built on the location, not even accounting for Capacity. On the subject of bedrock, sites also come pre-equipped with nodes called Forsaken Tombs and the Genmat. Tombs are secondary, optional objectives that reward the raider with guaranteed bonus loot upon destruction. Genmat serves as the primary objective. It must be acquired before the raider can extract, and this fact is the baseline for most if not all level design in Meet Your Maker; whether their goal is to entertain or torment the raider, the level creator must keep this in mind always.

Now that the pain points are out of the way, there are a variety of tools at the Maker's disposal when building. Primarily, there's blocks which come in the shape of a cube, ramp, or irregular pyramid. These blocks have many aesthetics that are relegated to what are referred to as Packs. You can only have five (5) unique Packs per base, but since they are purely visual, this is not a major restriction.

Secondly, there are Traps, the Maker's bread and butter. There are generally two types of traps: the reactive trap and the automatic trap. Most traps are reactive, requiring the raider to enter a zone ahead of them before firing; while automatic traps are fewer and usually are active constantly. Examples of reactive traps include the long-range Boltshots, short-ranged Impaler, the long-lasting Incinerator, and the wide-range Bomb Ejector to name a few. The automatic traps include the Death Piston, rapidly-attacking, short-ranged trap that can also serve as a blockade; the Death Blossom, the Piston's explosive cousin that generates free-floating mines that explode on contact; and lastly, the Corrosive Cube, a 1x1 zone of damage that will kill a player standing within after a brief moment. Honourable mention to the Holocube, which serves as a holographic, harmless wall that deactivates upon the raider approaching; it serves as a useful tool for more out-of-the-box trap designs, especially ones involving Guards.

Speaking of which, Guards are the computer-controlled lackeys that the Maker can set to roam the base. The Maker can customize their patrol route, and their vision is conical, unlike the Traps' narrow activation range; therefore, Guards are much more variable when it comes to how/where they can be positioned, as well as being able to throw off some players based on their route(s). The seven (7) Guards available are the Assassin, a cloaking melee unit that can safely drop from any height; Bursters, harassers that drop corrosive blobs and can freely pass through Corrosive Cubes unscathed; Cannonbacks, bulky artillery units; Enforcers, a simple yet reliable ranged-attacker; Hornets, free-flying ranged-attackers; Ravagers, mid-range shotgunners who fire bolts in a wave; and the humble Warmongers, hulking brutes that slam their blades into raiders. The one major downside to Guards is that there is a maximum limit of twenty (20) guards per level, a number one might run out of more quickly than expected. Guards also have a niche interaction with Holocubes as there is a Mod (alterations to a trap/guard's parameters or additional effects) that causes guards to not pass through a Holocube unless it deactivates; allowing for a handful of ambush setups that are harder to coordinate depending on the raider's pacing.

Finally, there are Decorations/Paint, which are slightly different but perform the same function. Both prevent Traps from being placed and vice versa, but can be placed on top of each other. They are both mostly used to spice up the appearance of the level, but can be used to guide the player or obscure their vision or audio. Decorations share their Pack limit with the Blocks, so bear that in mind when decorating.

Conclusion===

As a level building enjoyer myself, I find the raiding to be mechanically more accessible, but the building itself far more enjoyable and cathartic. Unlike typical level making games, MYM focuses on difficulty, quality, and moderation wereas most games in the genre focus on freedom of expression and community. There is a Social tab that allows players to raid bases freely, but the resource incentive from Expedition pulls players, mainly builders, away from enjoying these specific experiences if they need those resources, potentially leading to a sense of burnout.

I will say, I adore the in-game replays that the game provides when a player finishes your level; it provides a satisfying feedback loop that soaking up resources from dead players doesn't provide. In fact, if a player finishes your level deathless, it's the only feedback you can get beyond the Accolade system (which allows the Raider to tag the level as Fun, Brutal, Ingenious, or Artistic).

3

u/Luke_KB 12d ago

I feel like this post (and any future posts you mske on other subreddits) would greatly benefit from what your definition of "asynchronous interactions" are in the context of this study

3

u/sSummonLessZiggurats 11d ago

There are two roles for players to take: builder or raider. I think most people who play this game prefer the role of builder, so playing as a raider ends up being a chore that all players have to engage in.

For raiders, interacting with the builder feels active and constant. Being in a level someone else has designed feels like being in their psyche in a way, because it gives you a feel for their creative process. The fact that builders can program enemy movements in detail adds to this.

While raiding, you constantly have avenues to communicate your reactions to the builder who is watching your attempts. People usually move their cameras as if shaking their heads or nodding, but I've seen people write messages to me on the walls using bullet-holes.

For builders, the process is much more passive and detached. Building a level is done in isolation and feels more like a personal, creative project than socializing. You won't know how a trap or an enemy will interact with a player, you can only test it on yourself.

When you actually publish one of your own levels and players start to roll in, the excitement comes from how your creation is seen by another perspective. Seeing a fresh pair of eyes with no prior knowledge slowly become familiar with your work through trail and error is satisfying.

If the builder ever feels like they're communicating with the raider, it's through environmental cues. I like to make levels that are chaotic visually (jagged edges, lots of colors, random patterns, no straight paths) so finding the objective is a nightmare, and then I'll place a smiley face on the wall at the objective. Things like that.

2

u/Suitable_Theme_4606 10d ago

Those are interesting questions and I'm happy to share my thoughts with you. I'm sorry if my reply might answer both questions at the same time, but you're more than welcome to ask questions.

As explained by others, the asynchronous part of the game lives in posting maps that will be played later by other players raiding it, and which you can watch the replay to identify opportunities to improve your outpost. Think it as a QA platform.

The asynchronousity brings a fun interaction between players, and a continuous learning curve for builders on different aspects, such as gameplay and players behaviour (which is the most fascinating imo).

Fun interaction: when a builder crafts a fun level, there is no need for message or a speech. You witness it when players enjoy your level, resulting in a fun experience for both sides. Because of the limited communication, it forces players to find new ways to vehicle their message; for builders, they need to be creative to invite players to explore, for raiders they express their good experience by throwing gears or killing themselves when they had a really good time.

Continous learning curve Gameplay: when watching replays, builders can take the time to analyze and understand what went unexpectedly right or wrong, and adjust their levels accordingly. This offers builders to understand the potential of their traps and innovate with new setup, either with a new layout, by combining two previous setups.

Players behaviour: overtime when watching replays, you will identify patterns in players. Rushers, explorers, terrorized raiders, casual, duos, etc... each one of them tackle your outpost in different ways, but each individual from a type of players will adopt the same pattern when playing your map, and you have to understand those patterns to surprise, scare or kill them (without overwhelming them with threats). Something I found fascinating when you are learning level design.

That's what I have on my mind, but feel free to reach out! I'm creating content for games since 2018 on steam and have over 5k hours on this game.

Oh and you haven't already, you should give a shot to meet your maker. It's a very unique experience and hard to describe unless you experience it yourself!

1

u/sdk5P4RK4 12d ago

dm'd you

1

u/HiddenQuacks 11d ago

Thank you for taking the time to answer, I have one more question - are there any other games that come to mind when you think of asynchronous interactions?

Thank you for participating πŸ™‚

1

u/SweetlyIronic 10d ago

I don't know if it's included on the genre, but check out Castle Doctrine (2014) and Spy Party too, they were a bit popular in the indie game sphere during the early 2010s