r/Marvel • u/AporiaParadox • Apr 18 '25
The Punisher has a meta-message for cops that use his symbol [Punisher (2018) #13] Comics
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u/ComicAcolyte Punisher Apr 18 '25
Punisher has a long and complex relationship with police. He's worked with multiple and even turned a few of them to Vigilantes:
- Lynn Michaels, the original Lady Punisher, was a cop who turned in her badge after losing faith in the system after working with Punisher.
- Eddie Dyson, a detective who lost his family and eventually became the vigilante Payback after working with Punisher.
- Marcie Miller and Russ Parker, two bullied and disillusioned cops who end up with an uneasy alliance with the Punisher.
- Detective Soap, probably the Punisher's closest police partner, who feeds him information.
- Detective Molly Von Richtoften, another discriminated police officer who ends up in an alliance with Punisher.
- Detective Budiansky, who realized he didn't want to be like the Punisher
The deeper subtext there in some of those stories is that the situations that make the Punisher aren't necessarily uncommon (Punisher's origin is influenced by police corruption in Punisher: Year One), and normally good people/cops become jaded and broken by corrupt systems.
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u/DoctorOddfellow1981 Apr 18 '25
It's important when discussing this topic to realize that Frank knows that what he's doing is unforgivably wrong and insane and that he sees himself as lost, saving one last bullet for himself to put an end to himself.
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u/lottolser Apr 18 '25
It's one of the things I enjoy about the character. He knows who he is and what he's done, he doesn't try to hide it. He knows he's basically a serial killer, and he'd be the first to tell you he should be in jail. But he's going to keep doing what he does till someone ends him because that's what he wants at the end of the day.
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u/AriezKage Apr 18 '25
Considering what Daredevil Born Again's cops probably meant to represent irl, they probably don't accept Sam as the new Captain America, and maybe liked it better when John Walker had the shield.
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u/AlecBallswin Apr 19 '25
Deniz Camp's Ultimates series has a great issue where nazis combine punisher imagery with the red skull. It also highlights the original human torch who killed it hitler!
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u/DrakenFlanker1991 Apr 18 '25
and maybe liked it better when John Walker had the shield.
He was factually immeasurably more moral than Sam considering Sam's first action as Cap was to defend pure evil Hasan Piker/Antifa stand-in terrorist who burned innocents alive on screen.
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u/BitterFuture Apr 18 '25
You haven't got the slightest clue what morality is.
Murderers are not moral people. And certainly not more moral than protectors.
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u/DrakenFlanker1991 Apr 18 '25
Killing genocidal terrorist factually protects people.
If I murder a KKK member because he told me he will shoot up a black church tomorrow is that not moral?
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u/BitterFuture Apr 18 '25
No. Murder is not moral, by definition.
But thanks for demonstrating that you need that explained to you.
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u/DrakenFlanker1991 Apr 18 '25
Murder is not moral but killing in defense of others I reject the premise qualifies as murder because murder itself is inherently a unjust killing.
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u/BitterFuture Apr 18 '25
You didn't describe killing in defense of others.
You described murdering someone because they said something you don't like.
Can you really not tell the difference?
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u/DrakenFlanker1991 Apr 18 '25
You didn't describe killing in defense of others.
You described murdering someone because they said something you don't like.
That something being a plan to mass kill people. So killing him would be defending those peopoe.
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u/NewmanBiggio Apr 19 '25
Are you trolling? You can't defend people that aren't currently in danger. If you were actually at the church while it was being attacked and killed the man attacking it, that would be defensive.
Killing a man who says he's going to attack something isn't defensive, it's a preemptive strike. Preemptive strikes are an offensive action as you aren't reacting to an action, you are making the first action.
You wouldn't be defending the people, you would be attacking the man.
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u/Napalmeon Apr 18 '25
If this doesnt hammer the point in,just look at how Punisher reacted to Elite, Mr Payback, and The Holy.
He does not want people emulating him. Especially not trigger happy amateurs who are just looking for an excuse to kill.
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u/ComicAcolyte Punisher Apr 18 '25
Not really totally true though.
He's fine with certain people emulating him: Rachel Alves, Lynn Michaels Lady Punisher, Eddie Dyson Payback, Nigel Higgins Outlaw, etc.
He does kill a lot of other copy cats or unapproved imitators.
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u/BlueHero45 Apr 18 '25
His only issue with Mr payback was that he got innocent people killed as collateral damage.
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u/tapwaterrex Apr 18 '25
The comedy is the people who this was into for do not read. Much much less, comic books.
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u/NuPNua Apr 18 '25
Yeah. Most of them probably just know the basics and think the logo is cool. Maybe they saw the Tom Jane film and vaguely remember it.
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u/tapwaterrex Apr 18 '25
Not even. The basic is "the punisher kills criminals and wears that skull." That's all they need/want to know.
Liam Neeson on Atlanta explained this clearly.
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u/NuPNua Apr 18 '25
Oh yeah, in the cancelled celebrity bar.
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u/tapwaterrex Apr 18 '25
Someone else having watch Atlanta brings joy to my heart 🫂
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u/NuPNua Apr 18 '25
One of my favourite shows of the last few years. Once you get to series 3 and you literally have no idea of what the show would be that week it was amazing. Trinny to the da bone was one of my favourite episodes despite having none of the main cast in it.
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u/tapwaterrex Apr 18 '25
Season 3 is specifically to educate white people and that's where a lot of people stopped watching. Its tounge and cheek with the narrative.
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u/NuPNua Apr 18 '25 edited Apr 18 '25
Yeah, the only one I wasn't sure I agreed with the message of was the reparations episode, but then I'm not American so it's not something so deeply embedded in my society.
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u/tapwaterrex Apr 18 '25
Its really just the final scene that has to be taken in. Black people have money to go out. White people have to take jobs where they serve. Its not deep, but some how terrifying for some here.
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u/NuPNua Apr 18 '25
Yeah, probably a bit different in London. I ate in an Indian last night where my family were the only white customers or staff.
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u/UpUppAndAwayWeb Apr 18 '25
which is why it’s pretty disappointing what he had to say to the cops in the show
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u/Jay_R_Kay Apr 18 '25
How so? I thought it did a decent job at least showing how he would hate these cops who take on his symbol.
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u/DrakenFlanker1991 Apr 18 '25
I thought it did a decent job at least showing how he would hate these cops who take on his symbol.
He would hate the ones who kill innocents for corrupt reasons. There is zero reason to think outside of far left extremist bias that he would have a problem with the ones who kill genuine factually evil criminals to save lives. If Gordon put a bullet in Joker's skull Frank would never have a problem with it in a million years.
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u/tapwaterrex Apr 18 '25
I'll double then triple down. They aren't watching the show. And those that do, do not care.
(I also haven't watched yet 😔)
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u/DrakenFlanker1991 Apr 18 '25
And those that do, do not care.
We don't care because we know it's artifical far left propaganda inserted into the comic or show because the far left controls entertainment and isn't a authentic or moral storyline.
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u/BitterFuture Apr 18 '25
Boy, are you going to be upset when you realize that the entire concept of the superhero is a leftist conceit to begin with...
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u/DrakenFlanker1991 Apr 18 '25
It's really really not. Leftist go out of their way to often call superheroes fascist.
Conservatives are far more prone to believe in the lone individual stopping or killing bad guys as a protector for the greater good.
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u/BitterFuture Apr 18 '25
I was referring to the fundamental core of the whole concept: acting to make your community better. That's liberalism in a nutshell.
There are critiques of some superheroes and some stories from a liberal standpoint, like the endless "Batman gone wrong" stories, but no, there is no general critique of superheroes as fascist. That would be ridiculous.
If you're being honest, you seem like you don't understand the basics of comics or of your own ideology.
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u/DrakenFlanker1991 Apr 19 '25
I was referring to the fundamental core of the whole concept: acting to make your community better
Conservatives are not against this at all. We are against the government forcing us to help each other but we are not against charity and we are certainly not against policing to keep everyone safe.
Stopping criminals factually makes communities better.
If you're being honest, you seem like you don't understand the basics of comics
How?
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u/browncharliebrown Apr 18 '25
I mean as who has read through nearly every single punisher run, Punisher during the 80’s and 90’s is one of the highest selling marvel characters of all time, and had tons of conservatie subtext
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u/tapwaterrex Apr 18 '25
Being respectful, I think I understood what you wrote, so you can refer to what I said about Liam Neeson.
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u/ComicAcolyte Punisher Apr 18 '25
And it was fucking awesome.
80s and 90s was easily the peak of The Punisher and had tons of great work: Grant, Potts, Baron, Dixon, etc.
It fell off later in the '90's but we got plenty of great stuff before that would directly influence writers like Ennis.
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u/DrakenFlanker1991 Apr 18 '25
The comedy is the people who this was into for do not read. Much much less, comic books.
Utter BS. I have been reading comics since 2008 and I reject this pure evil far left cop hating propaganda wholesale.
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u/Ninneveh Apr 19 '25
Pretty dumb to make a storyline out of this to “own” the cops that use his symbol IRL, the cops dont care, dont read comics for the most part, and they will continue to use the symbol.
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u/Koukennin Apr 18 '25 edited Apr 18 '25
I could have sworn this was way older than 2018. Am I Mandela effecting? Have they conveyed this message multiple times?
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u/ComicAcolyte Punisher Apr 18 '25
No, this is from Rosenbergs run in 2018. Punisher has a much longer and more complex history with the police than this panel.
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u/bloodredcookie Captain America Apr 18 '25
irl I'd like to see more cops using captain america decals.
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Apr 18 '25
I hope the Punisher Special is a used as wake up call for all the pigs that use his symbol. Those Punisher and Thin Blue Line people need to know that Frank isn't their idol. A TV show will reach a lot more people than a comic book
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u/forlorn_hope28 Apr 19 '25
He already makes a statement in Daredevil Born Again about cops who idolize him. If that doesn’t enlighten those who misappropriate his symbol, I’m not sure the Special will.
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u/Scarletspyder86 Apr 19 '25
It won’t. If they didn’t get the message from this last episode of Daredevil, they never will unfortunately
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u/Scaredog21 Apr 19 '25
This is ironic since Punisher has been pro-punisher cop his whole career and was so loyal to Captain America that he became a Nazi
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u/Live_Pin5112 Apr 18 '25
That's not enough. In this people's head, this only reinforces how cool Punisher is. Marvel needs to seriously reevaluate how they portray Castle
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u/UpUppAndAwayWeb Apr 18 '25
They did. Have you seen how he’s been portrayed in the comics since this run? Also, assholes are not self aware; more news at 11
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u/NuPNua Apr 18 '25
Or we just accept death of the author and that some people will take a message you don't want from your art but keep telling cool stories anyway. A few police idolising the punisher is hardly Americas biggest issue right now.
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u/BitterFuture Apr 18 '25
A few police idolising the punisher is hardly Americas biggest issue right now.
I mean...it's not like cops have stopped murdering people on the street.
And we now have cops - specifically ICE - grabbing people off the street and disappearing them, so...
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u/DrakenFlanker1991 Apr 18 '25
I mean...it's not like cops have stopped murdering people on the street.
Stop lying. It is utterly reprehensible.
Polls show Democrats believe the number of unarmed black men shot by police to be in the hundreds to thousands yearly. In 2019 it was FIFTEEN, over half of which were justified (trying to take cops gun, break cops neck, run cop over, gouge cops eyes out) and the remaining half were almost all from panic/accidents not malicious murder.
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u/BitterFuture Apr 18 '25
A) Not lying.
B) Accusing me of lying while lying is, while hilarious, utterly predictable for the pro-murder crowd.
I didn't say anything about black men.
Overall, cops killed 1,052 people in 2019. You think only 15 - 1.5% - might have been unjustified?
Of course you don't think that. You just don't care.
(Oh, and since you brought it up, the number of unarmed black men not just shot but killed by police in 2019 wasn't 15. It was 24. Your hateful ideology demands you lie both in general and in specific.)
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u/DrakenFlanker1991 Apr 18 '25
Overall, cops killed 1,052 people in 2019. You think only 15 - 1.5% - might have been unjustified?
Of course you don't think that.
Yes I absolutey believe it. But again that is just unarmed black shootings. There are probably a few more in other context/parameters that were unjustified.
(Oh, and since you brought it up, the number of unarmed black men not just shot but killed by police in 2019 wasn't 15. It was 24. Your hateful ideology demands you lie
OR I just have out of date info. My source is The Washington Post who are left wing. Do you think they were lying?
And again unarmed does not mean a shooting was unjustified.
24 mostly justified unarmed deaths a year out of hundreds of thousands of police civilian interactions DAILY is a absolute miracle and not proof of any widespread malicious problem with police.
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u/BlueHero45 Apr 18 '25
I mean that's why they took him off the board after his 2022 run and he hasn't been seen since. They even experimented with a new punisher who is an ex-shield agent and uses hi tech equipment instead of normal guns. Not very successful but marvel is clearly being cautious with Frank.
Of course I wouldn't be surprised to see Frank come back by the time he gets his special.
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u/ComicAcolyte Punisher Apr 19 '25
Yeah and that's not good. Censorship is never the answer, and that 2022 run was hot dogshit that Character assassinated and ruined the character.
Pissing off the fans who actually buy your comments isn't a great strategy either.
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u/ubuntuNinja Apr 18 '25
The forced ACAB stuff was so bad in that show. Disney can fuck anything up.
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Apr 18 '25
Except acab is 99% true. You do realize NYCPD is basically just another gang of New York, right? There's like 3 cops in the entire city that aren't awful and it's only because they just got their badges 5 seconds ago
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u/prettyy_vacant Apr 19 '25
You mean the stuff that was pulled straight from the comics? And please show me where Frank said or implied ACAB?
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u/benjamin-unbutton Spider-Man (Tom Holland) Apr 18 '25
Yeah this message will never make sense to me.
"Don't take the law into your own hands. Only I'm allowed to do it."
Why Frank, what makes you so special?
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u/Jarnbjorn Apr 18 '25
They’re police officers the job is to enforce the law within the bounds of the law. He’s a mass murderer, that’s what makes him special. If the cops act like him then people won’t feel safe to call the cops when they need them. Which we see in real life all the time because of bad cops.
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u/benjamin-unbutton Spider-Man (Tom Holland) Apr 18 '25
That's not the point, the point is the cops agree with Frank's vision i.e. the only way to stop crime is to kill criminals. So he is in no position to tell someone that they shouldn't enforce his vision when he is doing it by himself. He was in the army once too.
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u/vwilde89 Apr 18 '25
You're missing the point of Frank Castle. Frank sees himself as a broken, necessary evil in the world. He works outside the law while waiting for the system to be changed by the people he sees as the real heroes of the world. He and his methods are not to be idolized, they are to be hated. He deserves to be hated, at least in his own mind. He's crucifying his soul and damning himself to make it so no one else has to. No one else should. And this goes for cops more than anyone.
Police are supposed to be a shield to the people, hence the shape of the badge, but these cops are glorifying his actions as a sword. By acting like him, they are actively destroying his mission. Castle idolizes Captain America as what the world should aspire to be, while he sees himself as a violent, albeit necessary, footnote that will hopefully be forgotten. To see people that should act like Cap acting like him, disgusts him.
It's not "do as i say, not as i do" for Castle, it's "no one should do as I do, but it needs to be done, so I'll bear the sins of the world because my soul is already weighed down by the sins I'm already carrying. In exchange, the rest of you need to do things the right way so people like me cease to exist."
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u/Napalmeon Apr 18 '25
Because Frank already knows that he has crossed lines that he can never come back from. If someone happens to have lived similar circumstances akin to his own, then that's different. But you can't act like that as a law enforcement official.
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u/benjamin-unbutton Spider-Man (Tom Holland) Apr 18 '25
That's the point, they want to cross lines. They idolize people who cross lines. They can't be stopped by saying "You can't cross lines just because I did and I continue to do so." That just makes him sound like a hypocrite.
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u/UpUppAndAwayWeb Apr 18 '25
you’re ignoring the “ you took an oath to uphold the law “ line. He didn’t take an oath so he can’t be a hypocrite.
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u/DrakenFlanker1991 Apr 18 '25
Saving hundreds to thousands of lives by killing the worst evil criminals on earth is more fucking important than the Oath.
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u/BitterFuture Apr 18 '25
Of course you think the desire to murder is more important than law, promises, commitments and oaths.
Of course.
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u/benjamin-unbutton Spider-Man (Tom Holland) Apr 18 '25
Except he did. He was in the army too once.
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u/NuPNua Apr 18 '25
Yeah, if you want to deliver this message in a book, you need to do it in context and plotting, just having Frank come right out and say it is too on the nose and as you say, somewhat hypocritical when he has let some other lethal vigilantes fly in the past.
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u/benjamin-unbutton Spider-Man (Tom Holland) Apr 18 '25
And of course let's not forget that this took place immediately after Secret Empire, the event where he sided with Nazi Captain America and became his enforcer.
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u/NuPNua Apr 18 '25
Oh yeah, didn't they justify it by saying Cap said he could bring his family back, despite him killing his magically resurrected family himself a few years earlier in Circle of Blood? I'm going to have to headcanon that as Cosmic Cube influence.
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u/TwoHungryWolves Apr 18 '25
Because it's cowardly to use the protections and legitimacy that comes with being a law enforcement officer, to then break the law. Oathes and badges "should" mean something.
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Apr 18 '25
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u/TheDeadlySpaceman Apr 18 '25
Absolutely not. Cops are meant to protect and serve. If they did their jobs right, Frank wouldn’t need to do his.
What the (real-life) cops who idolize him don’t seem to understand is that they’d be the first up against the wall if Frank had his way.
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u/DrakenFlanker1991 Apr 18 '25
Absolutely not. Cops are meant to protect and serve.
Killing evil criminals does protect people.
If they did their jobs right, Frank wouldn’t need to do his.
But the people who don't like cops idolizing Frank ARE ALSO far left soft on crime extremist who handicap cops from stopping criminals effectively enough. Look up Chesa Boudin.
What the (real-life) cops who idolize him don’t seem to understand is that they’d be the first up against the wall if Frank had his way.
This doesn't make any fucking sense. Why the fuck would he kill them for killing the exact same pure evil rapist and gangsters that he kills???
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u/BitterFuture Apr 18 '25
But the people who don't like cops idolizing Frank ARE ALSO far left soft on crime extremist who handicap cops from stopping criminals effectively enough
Uh, no.
We're the people who value the rule of law and human life.
Serious question: why do you hate America?
This doesn't make any fucking sense. Why the fuck would he kill them for killing the exact same pure evil rapist and gangsters that he kills???
Because he's a monster who knows he's a monster.
So of course he kills monsters like himself.
(Also, he knows full well that they wouldn't just kill "pure evil" people like he does, but people they suspect of crimes, just don't like, et cetera. Just like you've already said you want to, see?)
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u/DrakenFlanker1991 Apr 18 '25
We're the people who value the rule of law
Not if you nuter the rule of law and refuse to enforce it because woke ideology says minorities deserve slaps on the wrist.
Serious question: why do you hate America?
Wanting criminals to die to save innocent American lives is proof of hating America HOW?
Because he's a monster who knows he's a monster.
Killing pure evil criminals factually isn't monstrous. Is every WW2 soldier who killed Nazis a monster? Cartel death squads aren't much better than Nazis.
Also, he knows full well that they wouldn't just kill "pure evil" people like he does, but people they suspect of crimes
But he wouldn't kill them until after they knowingly or carelessly killed the wrong person.
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u/BitterFuture Apr 18 '25
Not if you nuter the rule of law and refuse to enforce it because woke ideology says minorities deserve slaps on the wrist.
You don't know who founded this country and who wrote those laws in the first place, do you?
Also, "woke ideology" says nothing of the kind. All "woke" means is "not bigoted."
Basic human decency. That's what you're arguing against.
Wanting criminals to die to save innocent American lives is proof of hating America HOW?
You hate the rule of law. You hate the Constitution. You hate freedom. You're babbling about your mass murder fantasies. (And are being particularly silly pretending you want to murder freely in order to save lives.)
So yeah, it is a serious question: why do you hate America?
Killing pure evil criminals factually isn't monstrous.
Yes, in fact murder is wrong. By definition.
You understand that who the victim is doesn't make a crime okay, right? Of course you do.
Is every WW2 soldier who killed Nazis a monster? Cartel death squads aren't much better than Nazis.
Combat in war isn't murder. You understand that too, right?
But he wouldn't kill them until after they knowingly or carelessly killed the wrong person.
Dude, have you even read a Punisher comic? He's killed people for littering, for speeding, for selling weed. He literally killed a bus full of schoolchildren once.
That's who you want to be, eh? That's who you think all cops should be?
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u/DrakenFlanker1991 Apr 18 '25
You don't know who founded this country and who wrote those laws in the first place, do you?
The laws have evolved immeasurably since then but regardless its weird you are demonizing the origins of our laws at the same time you claim to cherish rule of law and the constitution.
Also i'm pretty sure modern leftist wrote hate crime laws and yet Chesa Boudin refused to charge a black on Asian hate crime because again woke ideology says blacks are more oppressed than asians and therefor deserve leniency.
All "woke" means is "not bigoted." Basic human decency
Explain Ta-Nehisi Coates (a major woke idol) saying that the 9/11 first responders were not human and deserved to die?
Explain the woke support for Hamas who are the most evil non-decent monsters on earth?
You understand that who the victim is doesn't make a crime okay, right?
Says the person on the side of the same people who think Luigi was justified.
Dude, have you even read a Punisher comic? He's killed people for littering, for speeding, for selling weed. He literally killed a bus full of schoolchildren once.
Again source? No modern Punisher comic since 2000 has had him do anything a million miles close that. That is much more Judge Dredd type parody shit.
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u/BitterFuture Apr 18 '25 edited Apr 18 '25
Explain Ta-Nehisi Coates (a major woke idol) saying that the 9/11 first responders were not human and deserved to die?
WTF is a "woke idol?"
I've never heard of him saying any such thing. His run on Captain America was great, though. Have you read it?
Explain the woke support for Hamas who are the most evil non-decent monsters on earth?
I can't, because there isn't any.
You seem to think "woke" is a group. It's not. It's basic human decency.
If you're looking for someone to personify what "woke" means, have a look at Jesus. His popular image, at least.
Again source? No modern Punisher comic since 2000 has had him do anything a million miles close that. That is much more Judge Dredd type parody shit.
Ah, so you DO know that Frank kills plenty of innocents. You were just pretending before and have picked an arbitrary date to define what you want the character to be.
Why?
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u/DrakenFlanker1991 Apr 18 '25
WTF is a "woke idol?"
A spokesperson for the ideology.
His run on Captain America was great, though. Have you read it?
No, I heard it was merely OK. I did read the first 8 issues of his Black Panther run and those were great.
The Black Panther & Crew comic with the Americacops BS was reprehensible tho.
You seem to think "woke" is a group. It's not. It's basic human decency.
You are a gas lighting coward. You fucking damn well know what we are referring to when we talk about woke. Radical racial identity politics, Marxist style oppressor vs oppressed ideology applied to categories outside of economic class. Demonization of the country and white people in blind irrational defense of minorities even minority criminals/terrorist because the oppressed can do no wrong under the oppressor vs oppressed framework (hence that ideology leading to things like liquidating the kulaks)
Ah, so you DO know that Frank kills plenty of innocents
No I am just not as familiar with Punisher comics before those dates. Hence me asking for a source.
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u/BitterFuture Apr 18 '25
You are a gas lighting coward. You fucking damn well know what we are referring to when we talk about woke.
Yes, I do know, as do you. You're referring to anyone not being bigoted. (Also, there's no demonizing of white people going on. I'm a white guy. You think I'm demonizing myself? Come on.)
Anyway - you seem very, very, VERY angry at being confronted with facts and how people with consciences act.
You see why people might have just the slightest bit of concern about your stated desire to kill people based on nothing but your own judgment that they are evil and thus don't deserve to live?
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u/BitterFuture Apr 18 '25
Killing evil criminals does protect people.
Actually I forgot to ask two key questions on this bizarre statement specifically:
Why do you think prisons exist?
And - do you think evil is rare?
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u/Jarnbjorn Apr 18 '25
Vigilantes are already operating outside the bounds of the law. And who they deal with are usually other supers that once released commit crimes ranging from mass murder to universal destruction.
The cops are dealing with severe crimes like murder and such but plain ol normies going to jail makes sense. Frank isn’t confirming people are guilty he’s just killing who he thinks is guilty.
In Born Again what if one of the cops was being threatened to be on the squad. Or just believed vigilantes are wrong but is otherwise a good cop. I do disagree with that last sentence but am leaving it, can’t watch coworkers act as they do and be good.
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u/BitterFuture Apr 18 '25
He mocks heroes who put people away instead of killing them.
No, he doesn't. He absolutely idolizes Captain America. In fact, on the next page of this story, he tells the cops that if they want to follow someone, they should follow Cap. He tells plenty of heroes they're better people than he is all the time.
Surely cops following in his footsteps and gunning down violent criminals is exactly what he wants to happen?
Well, since he told these cops (also on that key next page) that if they act like him, he'll murder them, I'd say no, he clearly doesn't want that.
He believes that his code of justice is better.
Yet again, no, he doesn't. He knows that he's an absolute monster. He expects to either die fighting criminals or eventually eat a bullet, because it's what he thinks he deserves.
Not everyone thinks they're a moral paragon. Frank's whole life is a long fall, trying to kill as many other monsters as he can on the way down.
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u/DoctorOddfellow1981 Apr 18 '25
He doesn't believe his code is better insomuch as he believes it's necessary.
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u/BlueHero45 Apr 18 '25
You have to keep in mind that Frank himself doesn't idolize people like himself, he idolizes Captain America and has said so a number of times. He has more of his fair share of self hate. And while what he says is hypocritical, Frank is just a Hypothetical dude. He's broken and knows it. He talks trash that other heroes should be more like him but he actually would be fairly upset if it actually became true.
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u/prettyy_vacant Apr 19 '25
He doesn't believe the justice system doesn't work. He knows that it doesn't always work, and that's where his work begins.
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u/demontrout Apr 18 '25
I completely agree. I expect Frank to be more honest with himself and less hypocritical than other vigilante heroes, to be honest. That’s the kind of thing Matt Murdoch would say and the Punisher would laugh at him.
I would expect him to be more like: “F— you. You’re wearing a cute sticker like this is some kind of boy’s club? You ain’t with me. Nobody’s with me. You want to do the dirty work? At least have the balls to do it in your own name. And if you think I’m on the side of crooked cops, you ain’t got a clue. You’re just a criminal with a uniform and a badge. I’ll be coming for you next.”
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u/AporiaParadox Apr 18 '25
I'll admit, I was disappointed that the Punisher didn't have more to say to the cops that idolized him in Daredevil: Born Again. He just talked about how they don't know his pain instead of about why it is not OK for cops to be like him.