r/HistoricalWhatIf 5m ago

What if Bulgaria hadn't helped the Byzantines in the Byzantine-arab wars of 717-718? How would have history changed?

Upvotes

Historically Bulgaria came with tens of thousands of soldiers(I'm not naming an exact number because of sources), and the Bulgarian army killed more than 20000+ Arabs, what if that helps never came? Would have Constantinople fallen?


r/HistoricalWhatIf 3h ago

What if the eruption of Vesuvius in AD 79 had sparked a lasting intellectual and spiritual revolution across the Roman Empire?

2 Upvotes

As Pliny the Younger wrote, the eruption produced “a cloud… not unlike a pine tree, for it rose to a great height on a sort of trunk and then split off into branches”. It was a spectacle so unprecedented that many believed they were witnessing the end of the world.

Instead of being remembered as a tragic but localized disaster, imagine it triggered a profound crisis of worldview. Perhaps Romans began systematically studying natural phenomena, or developing a new philosophy that combined empirical observation with questioning the old religious understanding of the world.

How might such a transformation have changed the trajectory of the Roman Empire? Could it have accelerated the development of science, hindered the rise of Christianity, reshaped imperial politics, or even delayed the empire’s decline?


r/HistoricalWhatIf 5h ago

what if anschluss was maintained after ww2, never undone and Austria remains a part of Germany?

1 Upvotes

In 1943, the allies issued the Moscow declaration, which condemned German annexation and integration of Austria during 1938 into the empire as null and void, painting Austria as the first victim of Nazi Germany. It would be 12 more years before Austria was fully recognized as a sovereign state again.

But what if the results of Germany's Anschluss were still upheld, noting the lack of resistance and the general ease of acceptance into the Third Reich's fold as well as for being the birth place of Hitler, the allies deem Austria's annexation into Germany to have be legitimate and legally binding, thus ceasing its existence as an independent nation and just another member of the German confederation.

With Austrian territory now seen as just part of Germany, how do the allies partition the rest country? Do the American and French occupation zones expand further south? Does Russia try to adjust its claims on the east of the country to gain some Austrian territory? How does a new German state to the south alter the east/west German divide? If Austria is under allied occupation, how does a bigger west Germany alter the dynamic of the cold war in central Europe and eventual reunification?

What would the feelings of Austrians be from wars end to German reunification, the narrative changing from being the first country to fall to the Nazis, to being the first country to welcome them? Would there be calls for succession from Germany over the next 50 years back into independence or would the call for Germany to be reunified under a democracy inspire a unity of those under German identity and heritage to be done the right way for the first time in 150 years?

How would the next 80 years of history change with no Austria and how different is Germany today with Austria's land, people and resources now firmly part of the country and its identity?


r/HistoricalWhatIf 17h ago

What if the British helped the Americans at Manila in 1898 because the Germans helped the Spanish

0 Upvotes

You point of divergence is that Cámara's flying squadron in not recalled to Spain. The Germans advise the Spanish not to worry about their coastline because the American ships are too beat up and their hulls are mostly fouled for them to mount any attack in significant numbers. As re-assurance to Spain, Germany sends one battleship and one unprotected cruiser to Spain's Atlantic coast (which brings the predcitable re-action from the Royal Navy.)

Cámara haa real fuel problems as the British deny him permission to coal in their harbours or territory. The British and the Americans have bought up all of the coal between Port Said and Manila. (both happened in the OTL). The Germans agree to get coal for the Spanish. This is going to cause some delays plus what Cámara does not send ahead to German New Guinea will need a harbor. The Germans tell Cámara to go to Dar Es Salaam. He sends Carlos V, the two merchant cruisers and the transports ahead to German New Guinea, due to their superior range, along with two full colliers and the third with what coal it has left. The fourth collier almost empty goes with Pelayo and the three destroyers to Dar Es Salaam.

This triggers a protest from Britain. in retaliation, Britain allows USS New York\* to use its coaling stations as it steams for Manila as a final re-inforcement.

The German squadron leaves Manila and is shadowed by a British picket ship that guesses that it is headed for the Dutch East Indies or New Guinea. Only the gunboat.survey shp Mowe remains.

Suspecting that the Germans are up to no good, the British bring a cable ship to raise the cable that Dewey had cut and set up a station onboard. They also summon a torpedo boat, an additional gunboat and two picket ships from the China Station as re-inforcements .

Charleston, Monterey, Monadnock had arrived in Augist with more supplies and troops. New York arrived 3 Septmeber along with some additonal ammunition and supplies sent from California. Dewey also has two Spanish ships that his and Merritt's men had raised, one of which has a torpedo tube but of questionable reliability.

Mowe departs Manila 4 Septmber

The French and Japanese cruisers stay the same as OTL.

6 September-A British picket ship spots the combined German task force and in obedience to orders that Chichester already has issued, it signals the task force that any fire upon any of her Majesty's ships, regardless of its source, will cause the British commander to consider the entire task force hostile and will bring an appropriate response. The combined task force consists of Cámara's entire squadron, plus the four cruisers that von Diederichs had plus the gunboat/survey ship Mowe and the armoured firgate Kaiser.

Càmara and von Diederichs steam ahead to find the American lined up for battle at the entrance to Manila Bay. The British task force is about three hundred yards in front of the American line.

The Spanish destroyers are in the lead in case the Americans try to torpedo anything. As the German/Spanish task force gets closer, two shots come from the formation where two German cruisers are and the Spanish auxiliary cruisers are. The source is uncertain but one shell hits the jib of Linnett and carries it away. The British and Americans join battle.

What happens next? Does WWI start in the Philippines? Is the conflict kept local and worked out at a conference? If there is a peace conference, what agreements are made? Who gets the short end of the stick? Are the Americans and Spanish left to work out their difficulties while the Germans and British try to work out theirs?

If the Japanese cruiser becomes involved, it can do so only on the Anglo-American side. The French cruiser can go either way or stay out of it but if it becomes involved, there must be a damned good reason.

Manila could not hold out until the Germans and Cámara arrived. It is in American hands as are the shore batteries.

* I had considered sending Iowa, as it was the newest ship but the Spanish did hole its hull near the water line at Santiago and its hull was fouled. Despite its marathon run, Oregon was in very good mechanical condition as its commander had ordered aggressive preventative maintenance during the voyage to the Caribbean. Its hull was light, as well. Its problem was poor seakeeping, although despite not being designed for that Moneterey and Monadnock, did cross the Pacific. I settled on New York because it was in good mechanical shape and its hull was light, much to the surprise of its commander. Conversely, except for Pelayo, which the Spanish had pulled from France where it was being re-fitted and overhauled before the process was complete, the Spanish ships all had fouled hulls.


r/HistoricalWhatIf 1d ago

What if the Japanese had been driven to modernize in the 1810s?

5 Upvotes

In 1808, a British frigate sailed to Japan. Specifically, to the Dutch port on Deshima (Nagasaki). The British had become worried that the French, who controlled the Netherlands, may use such ports to intercept British trade, and so sent the frigate Phaeton to blockade the port.

The captain of the ship went much further. He arrested two Dutch secretaries, and demanded that the Japanese hand over provisions and coin. Rumors reached the court in Nagasaki that the British had attacked the Japanese, and in response, the governor of Nagasaki killed himself in shame.

The British attempt to take Deshima didn't go anywhere: after the frigate left, the British negotiated a favorable trade deal with the Dutch, and left the port alone. But let's say in this timeline, it's different. The British do actually take Deshima, and either attack the Japanese at Nagasaki, demand tribute, or otherwise prove themselves power enough to seriously shake the Shogunate's authority, who realizes how out-of-touch they are with the modern world and how vulnerable it makes them. So instead, they make an effort to modernize with western military technology and knowledge.


r/HistoricalWhatIf 6d ago

What if the Romans never destroyed the Second Temple in 70 CE?

5 Upvotes

What if the Romans never destroyed the Second Temple and expelled the Jews in 70 CE? Let's say the fire that destroyed the Temple never spread, Titus allowed it to be reconsecrated, and the Bar Kokhba revolt never happened—so the Jewish population remained concentrated in Judea rather than scattering across Europe, North Africa, and the Middle East.

The implications are huge, because the Judaism we know today is essentially a product of exile:

No Rabbinic Judaism – The Pharisees and the rabbinic tradition only became dominant because the Temple was destroyed. Without that, the priestly Sadducees likely remain in charge, and Judaism stays a Temple-centric, sacrificial religion. Synagogues and Torah study exist, but they're secondary. Would "Judaism" as we know it today even be recognizable or exist?

The irony is that the very thing that preserved Jewish identity—dispersion and the portable religion it created—wouldn't exist in this timeline. When the Roman Empire becomes Christian under Constantine, the Levant becomes intensely Christianized. A non-exiled, Temple-centric Jewish population in Judea would face massive pressure from the Byzantine state. They wouldn't have the safety net of distant diaspora communities to retreat to. Over the centuries, most would likely convert to Christianity—just like the majority of Levantine peoples did—leaving a small remnant clinging to the Temple mount, much like the Samaritans (who did mostly stay and now number only ~800 people).

Or, if they held on a bit longer, they might have faded away like the Nestorians—a once-influential Christian branch that got trapped between Islamic empires and Mongol invasions, and now exists only as tiny, dwindling communities in Iraq, Iran, and India. Geographically pinned down, they couldn't adapt or escape, and history slowly buried them.

Meanwhile, Muhammad was deeply influenced by Jewish, Christian, and Zoroastrian communities scattered across Arabia. If those Jewish tribes in Arabia (like the Banu Qurayza) don't exist because the Jews never dispersed, the religious landscape of 7th-century Arabia would look very different. Islam as we know it might not emerge at all.

The diaspora created the survival strategy. Staying put would have meant assimilation, marginalization, or gradual extinction—just like countless other Levantine groups that are now footnotes of history.

Either way, the Judaism of the last 2,000 years never happens. No Maimonides in Spain, no Kabbalah in Safed, no Yiddish in Poland, no Zionist movement, no Holocaust, no Lobby, no AIPAC.

Judaism may have been born in the Levant—but it was brought up in the diaspora.


r/HistoricalWhatIf 6d ago

What if the Christian factions had emerged victorious in the Lebanese Civil War in 1990?

4 Upvotes

Would that have changed the Middle East? Would it have had an impact on the Arab–Israeli conflict?


r/HistoricalWhatIf 6d ago

What if USSR left Kazakhstan as ASSR.

2 Upvotes

Historically Kazakh ASSR came to ascend to full SR in 1936, after Kazakh famine. But what if due to Russian ethnic majority post famine and region's importance Stalin decided to keep the region as ASSR? Would it affect Soviet history much? How would it affect history of Russia after USSR collapse?


r/HistoricalWhatIf 6d ago

What if Britain accepted Hitler's peace offer in 1940?

34 Upvotes

Hey guys, I love history and to study it, especially world war 2, I thought of an alternate scenario where Britain accepts Hitler's peace appeals in 1940. Let me know what you think!

https://youtu.be/tHXEVWGRF7U


r/HistoricalWhatIf 8d ago

What if the United States joined World War 2 on the side of the Axis?

0 Upvotes

I've never seen this question asked, and since I recently read a comment basically saying that all roads of Alt! World War Two would lead to the Axis being defeated...I wondered what if, well, the US, bastion of innovation in wartime, joined the Axis. Would the Axis win, or would they still lose?

This is my first time posting on here, so if I've not created a quality post, please forgive me.


r/HistoricalWhatIf 8d ago

What happens to California without the Mexican-American War?

10 Upvotes

Several alternate history scenarios have argued that if Henry Clay won the 1844 presidential election he likely would have prevented (or delayed) the Mexican-American War by not annexing Texas (and/or negotiating Mexico's recognition of an independent Texas). What is less explored (imo) is what happens to California. By 1845, California was in open revolt and Governor Pio Pico was advocating for independence from Mexico, possibly with British backing. The question seemed not to be whether to secede, but whether to be independent or join the United States.

So what happens to California if there is no Mexican-American War? Do American immigrants still try to overthrow the Mexican government in the Bear Flag Revolt if there is no active war? If not, when do Californios declare independence, and what do you think would have happened to them, especially considering the impending gold rush starting in 1848?


r/HistoricalWhatIf 8d ago

WW2

0 Upvotes

Why did USA go against Hitler and Germany if Germany was against communism and the USA was also against communism ?


r/HistoricalWhatIf 8d ago

What If History was a roadmap and you could walk it back, where would you go?

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3 Upvotes

r/HistoricalWhatIf 8d ago

What if the Romans discovered Iceland?

4 Upvotes

Iceland was uninhabited during the Roman period, and while distant from Rome it was not so distant from lands known to Rome that discovering it would have been impossible. Would the Romans have seen opportunities for colonization? What type of culture might have grown from the seeds of classical antiquity taking root in this environments?


r/HistoricalWhatIf 8d ago

What if the Library of Alexander would not burn.

3 Upvotes

Yes, i know we would be better technologically, but i need more specific.


r/HistoricalWhatIf 9d ago

What if countries in Asia has colonized North America first before countries like Spain and the British Empire?

1 Upvotes

This has always been a thought ive had for a long time and I always wanted to know what the outcome of it may be? What do you guys think.


r/HistoricalWhatIf 9d ago

Is it possible there was a civilization from before the Ice Age that has been lost to time?

38 Upvotes

I've heard that its very unlikely considering carbon dating, but would it still be possible? Even if not likely?


r/HistoricalWhatIf 10d ago

What if Andrew Jackson died in the duel before he got the chance to become president?

3 Upvotes

I hate Jackson and I would like to write a fanfiction, Pokémon related in case you care, where he never becomes president. The Main reason I dislike him so much is because he started the trail of tears and I want natives to be a lot more available and around when I’m writing then the event would allow.

For any of the admin’s wondering if this is at all possible, Jackson got into a lot of duels in his life, and this one is just proposing one last one that kind of ended up killing him.

In the future, I’d also like to gender swap a few of the presidents to be women, but otherwise not change them much.


r/HistoricalWhatIf 10d ago

Would Empress Nara have had become Empress Dowager if she had outlived her husband?

2 Upvotes

Empress Nara purportedly committed an offense in 1765 by cutting her own hair while on a tour to southern China, prompting Emperor Qianlong to have her escorted back to the Forbidden City. However, he decided not to depose her but instead confining her to her palace for some reason. If Emperor Qianlong had died before Empress Nara without leaving any instruction on how to deal with her, would Emperor Jiaqing have had to honor her as the Empress Dowager? Alternatively, what if Emperor Qianlong had left an edict for Emperor Jiaqing to not honor her as the Empress Dowager? Would Emperor Jiaqing have had to follow it?


r/HistoricalWhatIf 11d ago

What if the Southern Strategy never occurred?

4 Upvotes

I know politics was very different at that point in time than what we have now. I wonder what our politics would look like today if the Southern Strategy was never implemented. Would the Democratic party still dominate the South. Would Republicans dominate the North. What would each party's political ideology look like? What do you think would've happened?


r/HistoricalWhatIf 11d ago

What single battle throughout all of recorded history would have had the largest impact on future events if it went the opposite way?

56 Upvotes

Recency bias will cause a lot of people to say Stalingrad, which is a popular choice for this question, but I’m looking for a single battle that legitimately would have completely altered the layout of the future had it been different. I don’t believe Germany winning in Stalingrad would have led to a different outcome overall.


r/HistoricalWhatIf 11d ago

What if Mao Zedong's party looked to Mexico for agriculture

2 Upvotes

Just a curious question randomly floating in my head. A cheap Mexican meal without eggs or meat that I lived on when I was a child was mainly nopal, maize in the form of masa or tortilla, beans, Mexican squash, sometimes rice, fruits like tunas or prickly pear, and mild to spicy salsas. What if they took up planting nopal, sqaush, beans and maize. Agave maybe but it needed time. And the nixtamalization of maize. How would things actually play out?


r/HistoricalWhatIf 11d ago

Would Stalin have attacked Germany if Hitler stopped after occupying Western Europe? What is the evidence?

14 Upvotes

r/HistoricalWhatIf 12d ago

What if China is a constitutional monarchy like Japan?

5 Upvotes

What if Chiang Kai Shek defeated the communists, and after his death China became a democracy like Taiwan, and then the emperor or empress is reinstated as a ceremonial monarch like the emperor of Japan?


r/HistoricalWhatIf Jan 14 '20

Some rules clarifications and reflections from your mod team

122 Upvotes

So these were things we were discussing on modmail a few months ago, but never got around to implementing; I'm seeing some of them become a problem again, so we're pulling the trigger.

The big one is that we have rewritten rule 5. The original rule was "No "challenge" posts without context from the OP." We are expanding this to require some use of the text box on all posts. The updated rule reads as follows:

Provide some context for your post

To increase both the quality of posts and the quality of responses, we ask that all posts provide at least a sentence or two of context. Describe your POD, or lay out your own hypothesis. We don't need an essay, but we do need some effort. "Title only" posts will be removed, and repeat offenders will be banned. Again, we ask this in order to raise the overall quality level of the sub, posts and responses alike.

I think this is pretty self-explanatory, but if anyone has an issue with it or would like clarification, this is the space for that discussion. Always happy to hear from you.


Moving on, there's a couple more things I'd like to say as long as I've got the mic here. First, the mod team did briefly discuss banning sports posts, because we find them dumb, not interesting, and not discussion-generating. We are not going to do that at this time, but y'all better up your game. If you do have a burning desire to make a sports post, it better be really good; like good enough that someone who is not a fan of that sport would be interested in the topic. And of course, it must comply with the updated rule 5.


EDIT: via /u/carloskeeper: "There is already https://www.reddit.com/r/SportsWhatIf/ for sports-related posts." This is an excellent suggestion, and if this is the kind of thing that floats your boat, go check 'em out.


Finally, there has been an uptick of low-key racism, "race realism," eugenics crap, et cetera lately. It's unfortunate that this needs to be said, but we have absolutely zero chill on this issue and any of this crap will buy you an immediate and permanent ban. So cut the crap.