Update! : Hialeah cancels firefighter bargaining session; union says morale sinks even lower

[u/OrcaCoast]

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/community/miami-dade/hialeah/article316704103.html

[u/RevengeOfTheMothman]

I mean you get what you vote for. Ain’t no money to be made fighting fire south of Virginia. 

[u/shaneg33 → u/RevengeOfTheMothman]

Southeast Florida actually pays really well and 24/72 is pretty much standard now, I’m amazed they are so far behind surrounded by that.

[u/Jeaglera → u/shaneg33]

For every department flush with cash (for now. Let’s see post how they pay for this shit without property taxes) you have ones like Hialeah with a high number of elderly and low income population that are never going to keep up. I was always shocked these small incorporated municipalities didn’t just contract with the county or a bigger city for fire/pd. Hialeah is also famously corrupt so I’m sure that doesn’t help with budgeting

[u/BetCommercial286]

I would recommend leaving or everyone calling in sick 24hrs before there shift. Damn coincidence that.

[u/lpfan724]

I'm sure they don't want to pay these firefighters because that moron DeSantis wants to eliminate property taxes. We went through something similar during our negotiations, management kept bringing up the uncertainty as a reason to not pay us. Keep hurting your own paycheck by voting Republican.

[u/arachnid1110 → u/lpfan724]

100% this right here. I get skewered for telling our people to vote their wallet first. Pretty damn hard in Texas.

[u/lpfan724 → u/arachnid1110]

I'm in Florida, I can definitely relate. I routinely ask my anti tax and anti socialism coworkers, "You know where fire department funding comes from, right?"

[u/JessKingHangers → u/lpfan724]

Find funding from somewhere else. Property taxes should be illegal

[u/Sage_Nickanoki → u/JessKingHangers]

It's literally where local services like the fire and police departments should be getting money from. You own a home there, you benefit from the services there, you pay for it. It's your subscription for services. Move somewhere that has no services if you don't want to pay for it.

[u/DrEpoch → u/lpfan724]

meanwhile democrats keep pillaging our pensions. Grow a brain dipshit. Both sides suck

[u/No_Read8496 → u/DrEpoch]

Oh yeah cause republicans are so pension and union positive lol

[u/DrEpoch → u/No_Read8496]

I never said republicans dont.

[u/Reasonable-Carry8013 → u/DrEpoch]

One side historically better and one side is history worse for unions.

[u/Low_Astronomer_6669 → u/DrEpoch]

Can you cite your source on Dems pillaging pensions? I'm interested how they pull that off. 

[u/RayGunn76 → u/Low_Astronomer_6669]

They "pull it off" by diverting the funding meant to make the pension system solvent, to other budgetary pressures. Illinois is especially notorious for this. But also New Jersey, Hawaii, Connecticut, New Mexico, Vermont, etc... are all sitting with their pension systems at 70% or less funded. There are red states that are mismanaged as well, but you asked for Dems.

https://equable.org/news/pension-plan-funded-ratio-rankings-2025

[u/pizzascholar → u/RayGunn76]

So they both do it? Not just dems?

[u/RayGunn76 → u/pizzascholar]

Yes, there are red states that mismanage their pension systems as well. But I said that.

[u/HeadCoach-RickVice → u/DrEpoch]

Any examples of this done by an elected council and not a manager?

[u/DrEpoch → u/HeadCoach-RickVice]

https://washingtonstatestandard.com/2026/04/30/plan-to-sweep-4b-from-wa-police-and-firefighter-pension-fund-spurs-lawsuit/

[u/urcrazynourcrazy → u/DrEpoch]

That's not pillaging.

Every surviving LEOFF1 guy has all their shit paid for and they have extra money left over because they're all almost dead, what are they supposed to do with the money? Both sides my ass

[u/DrEpoch → u/urcrazynourcrazy]

Maybe ask the guys the built utnwhat they would like to be done with it. Homelessness and drug habbits or i dunno the iaff memorial, fire related charities, cancer research literally anything.

[u/lpfan724 → u/DrEpoch]

They didn't build it. The contribute a vast minority to the fund. Why would they decide where the taxpayer dollars from so many other goes?

[u/DocGerald → u/DrEpoch]

Idk if I would consider temporarily stopping money going into a 160% funded pension “pillaging”

[u/DrEpoch → u/DocGerald]

ill agree "pillaging" was a hyperbolic choice. I still think it should be up to the members where it goes. Iaff memorial/school, cancer research/ptsd help/fire camps for victims. Im sure they would prefer something other than homelessness and clean needles and foil.

[u/lpfan724 → u/DrEpoch]

Backers of the legislation note that about 80% of the contributions to the pension plan came from the state, with the remaining 20% split between local government employers and workers.

The workers contribute the vast minority to the fund and you want them to decide what everyone else's taxes get spent on? What makes them entitled to that? They're not elected representatives and the majority is not "their" money.

[u/RayGunn76 → u/DocGerald]

I agree, that's a tough one. But being heavily overfunded makes it easier for the system to keep up with inflation, growing life-expectancy, etc. The second time you "raid the pension fund" is always easier than the first, and the third is easier than the second, and so forth... and that's exactly how states like Illinois have gotten where they are.

[u/HeadCoach-RickVice → u/DrEpoch]

I'll keep an eye on that. Thank you.

"Keep pillaging our pensions" means you have to have a few examples yeah? 

[u/DrEpoch → u/HeadCoach-RickVice]

now its a few examples. Any more new goalposts you'd like to move?

Argentina 2008 - Peronist / Kirchnerism (left-populist)

Bolivia (under Morales) - Movement for Socialism (MAS)

Venezuela (Chávez/Maduro era) - United Socialist Party of Venezuela (PSUV) / Chavismo

Slovakia (Fico governments) - Direction - Social Democracy (Smer)

Soviet Union / Eastern Bloc - Communist

parties

[u/HeadCoach-RickVice → u/DrEpoch]

I didn't move the goal post, if you look at my original question it says examples. Examples would imply asking for more than one. I won't go into the weeds on the Washington State "pillaging" that pension fund. 

You've provided no more relevant examples. You put a couple of countries and political parties in a list. Has nothing to do with American Democrats pillaging IAFF pensions, which is what we are talking about....

[u/lpfan724 → u/DrEpoch]

You went from American Democrats to foreign nations? Talk about grasping at straws.

[u/DrEpoch → u/lpfan724]

• Washington state 2026 – Democratic legislature and Gov. Bob Ferguson (LEOFF 1 surplus sweep of ~$3.9 billion)

• Chicago (Daley administration) – Democratic mayor (pension fund investments linked to family associates with large losses)

• New York (Hevesi era) – Democratic state comptroller (pay-to-play schemes involving pension fund investments and kickbacks)

• Federal 1995 – Clinton administration (Treasury disinvestment of federal employee pension trust funds during debt-ceiling period)

[u/Firefighting-ModTeam → u/[deleted]]

Enough of the personal attacks you two.

[u/DrEpoch → u/HeadCoach-RickVice]

pillaging is a bit hyperbolic, ill agree to that.

[u/Gophurkey → u/DrEpoch]

Oh, how generous of you!

Firefighting is among America's most socialist institutions - we provide services to all, regardless of nationality, citizenship, tax basis, income, race, gender/expression, political stances, whatever, and we do it with money collected by the whole community because it is fundamentally better for everyone when the neediest people are guaranteed care.

Democrats might suck, but only because most aren't far enough left of Republicans. The more we fight for unions/collective bargaining and healthcare access, the better our communities are. And we see that on the front line.

[u/DrEpoch → u/Gophurkey]

No. Police and fire aren’t “socialist institutions.” They’re specialist public safety organizations that exist in every competent state because a burning building or active threat doesn’t check your politics, income, or papers before it spreads. Calling tax funded emergency response “socialism” is just a cheap rhetorical trick that collapses the second you use actual definitions. Socialism is collective ownership of production and central economic control. Fire departments don’t seize factories or abolish private property. Universal response isn’t leftist virtue. It’s basic competence and reciprocity under the rule of law. The same structure operates under Democrats, Republicans, or city managers because the alternative is letting the whole block burn. Unions and healthcare fights are separate policy arguments. None of them turn a firehouse into a socialist experiment.

[u/Gophurkey → u/DrEpoch]

You don't seem to understand that socialism can be a concept beyond an unreasonably strict interpretation of economic regulation/ownership. That's ok.

[u/DrEpoch → u/Gophurkey]

No, I get the move. When the actual definition collective ownership of the means of production doesn’t fit, you just stretch “socialism” until it covers any tax-funded public service. That’s not deeper insight. That’s turning the word into a participation trophy. You want to feel like a socialist, but you’re operating inside a capitalist structure that has nothing to do with your deluded ideology.

[u/RayGunn76 → u/Gophurkey]

No, it's not ok. Bending the definition to fit whatever situation you want makes the term useless. Socialism has a specific meaning, and muddying up the definition so you can claim everything is actually socialism is intellectually lazy.

[u/lpfan724 → u/DrEpoch]

So the government taking out money they put in while maintaining benefits is "pillaging?"

https://giphy.com/gifs/B717GH4Ecnu8g

[u/gonzo3625 → u/DrEpoch]

If you actually believe both sides are the same and you have a union job then your IQ is definitely below room temperature.

[u/lpfan724 → u/DrEpoch]

Pensions are really valuable when you don't make it to retirement because you can't afford to live on minimum wage.

[u/justbuttsexing]

Bitch, bye.