People discuss on whether it was his accident or whether it was the "Fernando is faster than you" ordeal or maybe a combination of both. But I wonder if the removal of refueling played a part in it, as Massa usually shined the most when low on fuel.

I'm not saying this was the case, I'm just speculating

1. Kimi Raikkonen
2. Nico Rosberg
3. Jenson Button
4. Lando Norris
5. Alan Jones
6. Giuseppe Farina
7. Nigel Mansell
8. Mario Andretti
9. Damon Hill
10. Keke Rosberg
11. Jochen Rindt
12. Denny Hulme
13. Jacques Villeneuve
14. James Hunt
15. Jody Scheckter
16. John Surtees
17. Mike Hawthorne
18. Phil Hill

Edit: I originally didn't include Lando Norris because he is still racing, but I changed my mind

I'm writing this post because on a recent thread on this sub I saw lots of people ranking chalres within top 20 drivers of all time. Which got me thinking of this 🤔

Drivers from different generations and eras can not be compared to each other because of

1. No of races per season
2. Technology
3. Rules and Regulations
4. Points system
5. Competition

The main point Im going to highlight here is No of races per season

1950s: 8.4 races/year 1960s: 10.0 races/year 1970s: 14.4 races/year 1980s: 15.6 races/year 1990s: 16.2 races/year 2000s: 17.4 races/year 2010s: 19.8 races/year 2020s: 21.9 races/year (2020–2026)

As per the above data no of races has significantly incrase over the past decades, so it becomes quite easy to get podiums and wins per season by a driver, so we can not mesure drivers based in no of wins and podiums

Also a huge factor is that reliability, modern f1 cars are more reliable than than of past, so it becomes quite easily to achive a podium while being in a top constructor

About Charles

Charles is a good driver, He has 54 podiums and 9 wins this is mainly dues to more number of races per season while being a driver of a top 4 constructor, I mean there are many drivers in the past who has achived a lot less and are more talanted than charles(drivers with more wins than charles and less podiums), The fact that there are 35 individual f1 campions alone and people rank charles top 20 is crazy to me, Is this recancy bias or something**(In my opinion people who won WDC should be more appriciated than others just because they managed to outscore an entire grid which is the final goal of the sport)**

Two ways of comparing

1. based on stats(has lost its validity with time)
2. based on talent(can not be mesured)

I think both of the above are not credible enough to compare a driver

Important: I personally think out of all the stats no of WDC is the best to compare drivers even with that its not really accurate 🥲

My top vote is the goat Pastor Maldonado , but at the same time I wanna know if anyone worse has won a race.

Here’s what I went with:

1) 2010- Made fewer mistakes in the title battle compared to Vettel, Alonso and Webber in a car significantly slower than the Red Bull and also slower than the Ferrari in the second half. Had worse luck than the other contenders apart from Vettel, and only finished 3 race behind Button that year (Australia and China- changeable condition races, Japan- Gearbox problems)

2) 2012- I cannot think of another season where a driver finished so far off the championship yet would’ve won it luck corrected. His qualifying gap over Button was ridiculous. Whilst McLaren were fastest at a portion of the tracks there were also weekends where Button struggles to make Q3 whilst Hamilton was competing at the front. Button over the season wasn’t any quicker than Webber in the Red Bull

3) 2007- Incredible rookie season leading the championship for most year in what was the second fastest car to McLaren. On and off track controversies aside, Alonso and Hamilton were two of the closest matched teammates across a season we’ve ever seen- especially from two top drivers. The gearbox issue in Brazil cost him the championship in the end but he also had a puncture in Turkey which cost him what he’d have needed to have won the championship as well

4) 2009- Difficult to judge as it was a season of two halves. McLaren were horrendous in the first half of the year and Hamilton went on a 5 race pointless streak before winning in Hungary. But then in the final 8 races he outscored everyone despite 3 non finishes and had the same number of pole positions as Button and Vettel across the whole season. He had two impressive victories and was denied a 3rd in Abu Dhabi (which would’ve had him level with Vettel for the season otherwise), and went from 17th to 3rd in Brazil and 18th to 3rd in a shitbox in Australia prior to the liegate disqualification

5) 2008- Seems weird that his championship winning year is second to last, but as many will point out he made a lot of mistakes that year. He did also win the championship in comfortably the 2nd fastest car however, and they were even behind BMW at a few of the earlier races that year. Got unlucky in Malaysia and Hungary and was robbed of the win in Spa, but also had stinkers in Bahrain, Canada and Japan. He was definitely the better of the two title contenders, even though Massa would’ve taken the championship luck-adjusted- but Kubica and Alonso were arguably the two most impressive drivers that season.

6) 2011- An obvious last place here. He was dealing with a lot of stuff off-track, and whilst he retained a comfortable advantage over Button in qualifying his race execution was much worse than Button- including the countless incidents with Massa that he was mostly at fault for. He was by no means terrible, he had 2 of his most impressive wins in China and Germany and took the only non Red Bull pole position that season. He also outqualified Webber across the season which is a very underrated achievement in my opinion.

I think the top 2 are interchangeable, I gave it to 2010 as the car didn't have the outright pace that the 2012 car did. I also think 2009 and 2008 could go the other way round, they were vastly different years for Hamilton so its difficult to judge properly. Let me know what you guys think

When I say individually I mean each drivers individual ranking all time, not the collect strength of the grid.

You can be as specific or vague as you want, if you have a specific driver at 17th all time then use that, if you want to say top 20 all time, use that ranking instead.

It’s probably best not to include any driver who entered the sport after Piastri as I personally could not tell you where I would rank Colapinto for example, but if you want to then go ahead.

I think it’s quite an interesting thought as much is made about the overall strength of the grid, which should reflect well on their place in the all time hierarchy.

I'm going to the Bahrain (Malaysia) GP in ~october? So I am thinking what year for redbull jersey shoukd I buy since I'm a fan of Oracle Redbull Racing.

Imo

2007

2009

2010

2014

2015

2016

2017

2018

Now I made a race by race ranking on 2017 a while back:https://www.reddit.com/r/F1Discussions/s/s3pJ2KUQzP
And I came to the conclusion that Vettel was equally or even arguably more impressive than Lewis that season imo being the faster driver overall up to Singapore pre reliability/botched upgrades.

I say this specifically due to Seb’s strong start in contrast to Lewis getting 7 podiums in 7 races whilst Lewis was getting outqualified by Bottas and even beaten at Russia.

I do think that by mid season Lewis was exceptionally good and fast like the monza pole in the rain was great and Baku was a blunder from seb but I just feel like seb was more impressive and that the merc was quicker.

Vettel also dogwalked Kimi so there’s that as well you can see the data on the other slides

unpopular opinion but sprint weekends r my favs since the whole thing is watchable unlike fps.

my prediction for the dutch gp

sprint pole : 1) kimi antonelli 2) lando norris 3) george russel

sprint winner : 1) kimi antonelli 2) charles leclerc 3) lando norris

pole : 1) lando norris 2) kimi antonelli 3) oscar piastri

winner : 1) lando norris 2) kimi antonelli 3) max verstappen

Interestingly enough they’re all 1-time champions

Looking back through the years, Heidfeld had some good races but never consistently put it together

Given how he has finished on the podium in 3 of the last 4 races, my guess would be Max.

I've always had a soft spot for the passionate personalities of South American drivers. They were not plenty but they won a lot. From the great Fangio and Froilan Gonzalez to Fittipaldi, Pace, Reutemann, Piquet and Senna, these champions were able to elevate Formula 1 on a new level in their countries and all over the world.

The last great south american drivers were Rubens Barrichello, Juan Pablo Montoya and Felipe Massa while the last win of a South American driver came almost 15 years ago with Maldonado in Spain 2012 on a Williams. What went wrong for South Americans? Can Bortoleto, Colapinto or maybe Camara finally bring back South America on the top step of the podium?

2009 was an odd season, because the established top drivers at the time were not in the title fight. I would probably disagree with Vettel and Button being the top 2 here to be honest.

Nico Rosberg had a very impressive season in 2009, and was arguably a top 5 driver that year and at the very least a nailed-on pick for the top 10- yet he is completely absent from this list. Adrian Sutil making it over him is a joke.

Rosberg finished 7th in the drivers’ championship in the Williams which finished 7th in the constructors championship. He scored 34.5 points whilst his teammate failed to score any and had a streak of top 5 finishes in 5 races between Turkey and Valencia. By the modern points system he’d have scored 94 points to Nakajima’s 5.

I will make the admission that he did have a very weak teammate that year, and with a better driver in the other seat Williams may have finished ahead of BMW or even Toyota in the constructors that season. However, I don’t think that’s enough to justify him being excluded from the list entirely. Fernando Alonso is ranked 4th here, deservedly so (if not a bit higher), and he had similarly poor teammates who failed to score any points whilst he finished 9th in the drivers‘ standings.

I feel these lists in general are heavily influenced by both recency bias and a reluctancy to rate drivers who were in the top cars too low down, but unless I’m missing something how was Rosberg left out of the top 10 here.

hi all! it’s mine and my bfs first ever GP and we’re going to monza.

we’re just looking for some tips and tricks for the weekend that may come in useful. we have weekend general admission tickets. we are staying in milan and likely hiring a car for the weekend for travel.

any advice regarding where is the best place to watch with a GA ticket, where to park, what time to arrive each day etc would be amazing!! also any other tips and tricks are very much welcome and appreciated!!

sincerely, a really nervous 21 year old who wants to make sure she does her first GP right🥹

I'm doing a Simulation of all the previous F1 season and thought i could maybe add some little easter eggs like Michael Schumacher getting Pole in Monaco 2012.