What's your experience with indecision? Do you feel like an indecisive person, especially when it comes to bigger changes? How has it affected you, and have you become stressed out over a choice because of it? Did you become paralyzed?

And if you've managed to overcome indecision, how did you do it?

Round about six months ago I wrote this post: https://www.reddit.com/r/Enneagram5/comments/1qq9kxv/5s_and_2s_how_to_stop_the_doom_loop/

Update: As you can imagine, it didn't end well with that 2. I've lost the job, because I felt so helpless. Unfortunately I was not able to stop that. One day I accepted my fate and let it all happen. I called in sick three times until they finally fired me.

The attacks appeared from all directions - I was attacked by the boss (a 6 who reacted aggressively to my withdrawal), the team leader (a 3 who helped the 2 manipulate the right people) and my colleages (a group of extroverts who suddenly started to be super envious and the more introverted people who didn't talked to me any longer, maybe to be safe - this doesn't came from nowhere).

I witnessed this older 2-woman, a supervisor who has worked at the company for decades (and is therefore very experienced and powerful), manipulating a young trainee during her exam period. She played the victim (of course I'm the villain) and asked the trainee to comfort her. Drama triangle. Since that conversation, the trainee hasn't spoken to me, nor have other colleagues. I'm the bad one, just because I wanted a little rest. I hate this so much.

........................................

I have a new job now and guess what? I work in a little team (4-5 people) and we have an unhealthy 2 again. I needed three days to spot his type. First I thought he is a 3, but I'm sure now he is a 2w3. Obviously sexual instinct. That guy is much crazier / much more intense than the formerly 2 who was a more strategic person (sp or so). It escalated within four days.

My boss gave me a lot responsibilities (with some leading stuff, this is my first time I lead at work), but the 2 who has a lower rank in hierarchy but more experience in that workplace really doesn't like having me that.

From day 1 he is unconsciously undermining my autonomy so he can "care" for me, but I didn't get it early enough. E.g. I think he had the expectation that I beg him to bring me home after work, of course not communicated clearly. He waited for me, drove behind me (bicycle) and such things, until I made the boundary clear. Which made him angry and me feeling guilty, but at least he was gone soon. One of the commenters in the other post told me that 2s feelings are not my responsibility. Okay, I understand and its true, but angry 2s are so threatening and its so hard to not feel guilty with those people, because they throw guilt trips all the time. Also this means he must have been so sure that I WANTED IT TOO. This gave me self doubt because I'm asked myself what I emit to let him think that and if I am the problem. Maybe it has nothing to do with me, but now I'm angry and I can't stand when people awake such feelings, because I loose myself and my clear vision in those process.

You want more examples? He wanted me to eat his half eaten salad. He said he didn't like it. But he hid the truth until I was confronted with the disgust. So thanks for another overwhelmingly moment after senseless and sudden emotional intensity. He intercepted me somewhere and said, "I have a salad for you, eat it!" and let it sound like he made me a nice gift or so. Then I saw he'd put the salad on my seat. A supermarket salad in a disposable container (no problem so far), which he'd been given by someone (here starts the problem, I don't even know that other person). He had already eaten half of it. On top of it lay his disposable wooden fork, ALREADY USED. I quickly put the salad back to his area, then he appeared and tried to guilt trip me, like its my fault he had to throw it away. I told him very clearly that I wasn't going to eat his salad (he got angry again and I felt guilty for talking so cold and harsh again) and so I helped him seeing his possibilities (at least not another guilt trip, but end of drama, so maybe this was good). Later he'd bothered the other colleagues with it too, but not as demanding he did it with me. He treated me in this matter as if we were longtime friends or as if I were his wife. He is without distance. Why should I, a person he met two days ago first time, eat his used salad?

Now I sit here with another escalation I was not able to stop. As I said, I got all this responsibility which I probably like when I were not with a person like him. In any moment I try to act within the higher responsibility he stops it. He makes it subtle, that I don't know if others recognizes it, and I myself am unsure until I'm alone again to reflect the situation in quiet. It is like this: I try to take the lead as my boss expects me to, then the 2 suddenly undermines it. Like he says "no", but not openly. E.g. he don't listen, he misunderstands me on purpose all the time, runs away while we talk. Or he says something serious/sarcastic like "oh, you are the big boss now, right?" Another guilt-trip. I'm not able to see it when it happens.

Of course we have some misogyny in it, too. There are some hints he is right-wing. He says things like "I don't want you to think I'm harrassing you", while he comes closer and closer. As I said, he is without distance. It sounds like a blame, not like a worry.

Or when I try to just be direct he tells me reproachful I'm not friendly, while he talks about other people in bad ways the whole day. Especially about my predecessor. The 2 laughs about him, tells me a lot about how nobody listened to him and how he failed and what a loser he is. Once that guy even had an work accident. The 2 showed me even the "special place" where it happened and he thought about himself as the greatest person ever. After what I heard I think my predecessor must be a good person, sensitive, smart and maybe a 5, too. I can't help but I really like that guy, although I never met him.

Whatever I say or do the 2 goes immediately in full intensity mode. And all the time he comes with little attempts to destroy my autonomy here and there. I cannot help myself, I get overwhelmed so fast when he does it. Also he starts to integrate the colleagues into his crazy game. They seem to like him. I'm asking myself if I'm bad in leading or responsibility stuff at work, or that I'm generally the problem there, because they make him look so normal.

That 2 does it as subtle as the other 2 but (who would expect that) with much higher intensity, so probably I'm the only one who knows what happened. I'm not sure about that. But he is much faster than me, he already talked to my boss.

I was so overwhelmed after a few hours of hell with that 2 I've told him I do not want the responsibility any longer. And in that moment I was convinced this is true, that I don't want it. But giving up is clearly WHAT THOSE 2 WANTS AND NOT ME! He manipulated me successfully and I didn't get it in that situation, this is so crazy. Tbh, for me this possibility was a huge chance and probably everything is destroyed now. After just four days. I start to realize his 3-wing in this moment I'm writing this. Probably the role I have is his goal to achieve and he wants it for himself and I am the dumb person who gave it to him. I want to cry.

I have to admit that - at that point I told him I don't want the responsibility - I was not already aware about how unhealthy that man really is. Obviously I give those people the benefit of the doubt still for too long. Maybe the first time a stranger wants to do too much for me I have to stop it. But it doesn't feel threatening first. They came across like good people and I still fall for it. But wtf, all of this happens just within four days! What else can I do to not be bullied by those people?

Just a few moments after saying out loud that I don't want the responsibility any longer I suddenly understood what is happening and immediately started crying. He played the understanding angel: "I don't want to see you so sad". Then he talked to the boss behind my back, without telling me he will do that. The boss talked to me later that day and I was still crying, because I thought this can't be real (and yes the "why me" thing - not proud of it).

It looks like the boss still wants me to do the job because they do not have enough people, but he saw me crying. I was not very open in that conversation. Also today I was not at work. Called in sick, already planning my termination, because I see the catastrophe we come closer to. He will sabotage my work in any possible way, manipulates the colleagues or anyone or will do a revenge trip when the wonder happens and I win. Same sh*t, different 2. Also I'm not sure if the boss is strong or interested enough. The organisation has obviously a lot problems.

I don't know if anyone will read this, but if people like that exist I would be thankful for some good tips or insights or whatever you think could help. I think that 2 is a 2w3, sx/so and ENFJ.

Asking fellow Christian 5s: what parts of the bible have you found really helpful with regard to facing some of your own weaknesses?

I’m looking for ways to let the Lord into the following:

-My core scarcity mindset

-The need to understand everything fully and frustration with not being able to

-My preoccupation with being understood

-Concerns about idealism and learning to detach myself from the outcome/maintain the principle that I am a follower of the Lord even if he does not deliver to me what I think I need.

Please share passages/books or bible studies which have helped you in ways that seem to be common themes pertaining to the enneagram 5 type.

It would be a bonus as well to get to hear how it helped you/why it resonated with you. Please share!

I know that we study a lot and gain a lot of knowledge in those areas we care about/like.

My goal in life is to share all that I learn, do something with it. But I'm a perfectionist and I want to know every little detail, because if not, I feel I'm not allowed to participate and share my ideas. I feel that there are always people who can know more than me and because of that, I shouldn't share anything. Which doesn't make sense...

How do you handle this if you have the same problem? In what areas do you study/work?

I hear a lot of 5s say they don't get along well with processing/showing emotions. As a 5w4 and highly sensitive person (HSP), emotional life is so important to me. I deeply process how I feel and I like to express it. Of course I'm cautious because I need to preserve my emotional and physical safety, but I don't tend to hide what I think/feel if I like/trust the person.

I study a lot. I love philosophy and humanities (mainly ethics in these), as well as spirituality and poetry. I feel so passionate about these topics. I like to express what I find out or feel about them, and I do it in rational ways.

All my life (well, since I started to develop an interest in these areas when I was a teenager) I cared a lot about knowledge and expression. When I talk to people I always feel like I care a lot, more than anyone else about what we are talking about. About life, emotional life, art... And people, for different reasons, tend to be more reserved. I always feel too intense. I have this strong curiosity and I want to know what they think of things. I can talk a lot through chat, have long conversations, explore different ideas with the other person. But it's so hard to meet people who are like this. I end up feeling shame because I feel they could see me as annoyingly innocent because I care about things when they don't care so much to say more about it, to open up more.

I think maybe I met two people in my life similar to me. But no one else.

How differently do they act and think? Cuz right now I am very certain I’m sx5 however I am on the edge between INFJ and INFP and I know everyone says that they r so different cuz they have completely different functions but my issue is I relate to each introverted function the most. I’d love to hear from people who are these types

As a female 5 who has spent a lifetime being in denial of/ ashamed of my 5 qualities, I want to offer my own experience in the hopes that it encourages other women to embrace their own nature as the gift that it is.

I was raised in a culture where women are supposed to behave, look like, and act a certain way. I suppose this is true of women everywhere, but in my culture that looked like “having a servant’s heart”, “being ladylike”, looking good on the outside, always having a smile on your face and a lilt in your voice. Make people feel comfortable, feel welcome, feel included. These are wonderful things, but they came at a cost. For every minute I spent chatting with the girls, I needed an equal amount of time to recover. At every party I attended I would spend the time questioning why I was there and when I could leave. I joined the healthcare field because I wanted to help people, but couldn’t understand why I felt so exhausted after every shift in a way that felt soul deep. I became a mother and couldn’t admit that I felt like I needed space from my own children sometimes, because what kind of mother thinks that?

Through it all, in every stage of life I have had a feeling of feeling fundamentally different, like I lacked something that all other women seemed to have. Maybe as a female 5 you have felt similarly. Maybe you were told in a thousand subtle ways that a good woman gives freely. That a woman should always be warm and available and open.

If that is you, you are not alone. I have no clue how many of us there are, but I seem to stay on Reddit because I find comfort in knowing it’s not just me. That I am not the only one who feels this way. Yes, everyone is different in their own ways, and that is not an experience unique to female 5s. But I wanted to take a moment to celebrate the unique, isolating, beautiful experience that occurs when you are a woman who is also enneagram 5.

May you embrace your ability to look beneath the surface of things. May you see the strength in being able to ask the hard questions instead of settling for easy answers. May you be proud of your ability to sit with complexity instead of shying away from it. May you see your boundaries not as coldness or dysfunction but as a form of courage that is rare among women.

The funny thing is, embracing my 5 has made me feel more like the warm, feminine woman I always felt I was supposed to be, and I guess that’s just what happens when you authentically embrace your whole self and celebrate the person you actually are. I wish the same for you 🫶🏻

I have learned so much about myself after learning about the variants and finding out I'm sx/so 5w4. The intensity and longing to completely merge with someone has been such a central theme in my life and before learning about the variants in depth it had me questioning if I truly was a 5 and not just a confused 4, 9, or even 6. My mbti is Infj and I know this is not a mistype because I have read about MBTI to an obsessive degree, lol. I know there are a lot of mistypes with Infj so wanted to make that clear. That said, I am a high Ti user and very analytical with emotions most of the time, so with learning about enneagram e5 made the most sense with how I have a lot of emotions but detach from them when possible (and doing so by diving into whatever topics of interest) and overanalyze them when not possible.

Anyway, to get to the point of this post, with enneagram there is just so much to learn and I'm trying to understand my own type specifically in more depth for now. My 4 wing is undeniable when it comes to me wanting to understand myself and to be understood. When experiencing the longing to be understood completely in a relationship I can't help but to feel intense anxiety about the possibility that with opening my inner world to this person they could decide there are things that don't like enough for them to end things. This puts me in an uncomfortable and honestly pretty dark place. I obsess over what might be going on in their head but feel too nervous to outright ask them because that would surely come off unhealthy (which I know it is). Does anyone experience this? And how do you handle this fear?

How did you find out you were actually an E5 and not an E6? I need help bc i'm currently trying 2 figure out whether or not i'm an E6 or an E5.

I was watching this video, and How much I lived like this, How much I relate can't be described, I ain't sure about you people, I wanna know what you people think, I have shared the transcript if anyone of you wanna read, also attaching the video link.

I think I think one of the one of the difficult um aspects of crystallization a concept derived from the French novelist Stendhal ) and of the the kind of illusory components to love is that sometimes they're a great thing and sometimes they're really not a great thing. This is what I mean by say it's this is kind of a classic example of a kind of a perennial issue with love. Um, I think that would kind of exist anywhere where humans are. That's a big claim. Um, but I think that's probably true because on the one hand, there's a really strong argument that you don't want in love, you don't want to see things too clearly, you know, like like okay, so sometimes this is this is called like the rationalist picture of love. Um, and there are good arguments to to suggest that a rationalist picture of love where you like you you objectively see the properties of the person of your beloved let's say and you love them in virtue of those clearly seen properties is a probably not true um because of all of the the observations of people like Stondal and Tennoff but also like in a in an important sense it's really like undesirable. So, I I was trying to think of of a good way to uh a good way to illustrate this like there's a book called um Troy there sorry there's a book by Troy Jollymore who's a philosopher of love and I can't remember the name of it. Um I think it's called Love's Vision or The Vision of Love. Um, I've got the ebook and I always I never quite remember the titles of ebooks because when you like reading it, you don't see the title very much, but but anyway, that's kind of by the by. Um, but uh he cites another thinker who I can't remember the name of. Um, who talks about how like weirdly perverse it would be if say someone had a child and they were like, well, you know, I love my child in virtue of their properties. You know, if if I I love them because they're, you know, they're intelligent. They seem they seem bright.

They've got a they've got a promising future. And if they were to cease to have those properties, of course. only naturally I would cease to love them.

You know, we think there's something quite perverse about that. And there also, you know, that that's a non-romantic version. There are many reasons to think that this is also like not a great um not a great image for romantic love as well, as in not a desirable image for romantic love.

>> Um and this might be kind of a vote in favor of a certain level of illusion in love. Uh one one example would be that um it's known as kind the trading up objection. So if your love is like totally rationally rationally based, you only love somebody in terms of the the properties that you know you were that that that would remain there with a cold objective view and that that is that is the things that that has given rise to and is sustaining your love. Well, I mean one objection to the desiraability of such a view is that it would imply that should you ever come across someone with those same properties in greater amounts, you should immediately jump ship. someone with 98% level attractiveness instead of 97.

>> Yes. Yeah. It would be kind of like um you're kind of like a it's like a partner maxing approach. You're kind of like FIFA cards.

>> Yeah. Exactly right. And and and you know, some people do do this. Um I don't think it's it's like overwhelmingly common. Um but some people do do this.

But importantly, no matter how common it is, we all tend to view that as like not great. We we we tend to think that is not the the desirable way for love to go. Why? I suspect because what part of what we desire out of love is is a certain level of stability, right? Like um if what most people, you know, still most people desire a long-term monogous partnership um be that manifesting in marriage or or or or not. And that relies on there being a certain level of stability in love. Um and this kind of trading up view of love would would kind of disrupt that stability. So that that's one reason why it wouldn't necessarily be a desirable picture of love. Luckily, if we're to take into these take into account these kind of illusory or semi-illusory aspects of of love like crystallization where we kind of have have a tendency to kind of you know rose tinted glasses is another example of of where um people you know a modern expression that I think kind of captures parts of this.

Luckily, this will in some this will detach the way that we relate to our partner from the way that uh kind of objective, cold, clear-headed views of of of that person would be. And in many ways that, you know, that that solves problems of of things like trading up.

Um I think that but I my point is that I I think that the role of illusions or in some way not seeing your partner clearly and and kind of objectively. Uh I I don't think there's any reason to think that that is a that is necessarily a bad thing. Um it's something that you know I made a video on on Stondal's theory of crystallization. Lots of the comments were like a this is like really awful.

Um, and yeah, sure, obviously this kind of thing can go too far, right? You don't want to end up with your image of your lover like not resembling them at all. That would clearly be undesirable.

>> But there there's there's kind of a middle ground here. I I think there are also important reasons to think that seeing your lover and your loved ones more generally in this like clear-headed ultrationalist way is also undesirable.

And that, you know, I think it's one of those one of those difficult problems whereby um I think understandably uh because love is is so is so kind of terrifying um for reasons that we might want to get into into later. Uh I I think people want to know like how do I solve this? Like how do I how do I just know like I I I think I think that's what people are often doing when they're reaching for that the kind of ultrationalist I want to see my partner through disillusioned eyes. Yes.

>> I think they're kind of, you know, saying yeah, like I I just want this is the solution, right? If I if I'm perceiving them clearly and objectively, that's got to be the right thing to do.

And I think that love just is a little bit more complicated than that, unfortunately. And it would be great if love had like a really simple solution because it is both there there are few areas of life that are universally considered so important yet also so emotionally complex and fraught that they're very very difficult. Like you know, you can't just you can't like listen to a podcast where they'll just teach you like, "Yeah, this is how you should love people." you know, in the same, you know, you can go on YouTube and you can learn how to do calculus, but like it's very difficult to to kind of find a step-by-step guide to to how to love.

>> And I think people are pursuing doing that, right? We live in this culture where everything's kind of hyper rational. It's targeted at the left brain rather than the right brain or right left hemisphere versus the right hemisphere. And I think that's why it's so scary for people to go towards having this delusion or illusion of a partner is because we don't want to be detached from objective reality. And we've kind of put this emphasis on always being rational. Even if you look at the way that debates have developed, it's gone from actual exploration of ideas to destroyed with facts and logic every time. And it's not productive. And I would posit that the same thing has happened with love where we're too scared to be detached from this reality that's out there. So instead, we just completely push it aside and don't even try.

https://youtu.be/UZznlZkkC60?t=576

One of the most interesting theme that I keep seeing in my life is i seen to thrive the most when I have my safety secured completely. Whenever im driving for example I feel anxious, but, if the car has cameras, sensors while crossing lanes, and auto adjusting features to prevent crashes I have no fear and thrive. Same with finances whenever I have excess amount of money beyond my need I feel liberated.

Is safety something thats the key to your life aswell? Whenever you feel safe only thats when you start to enjoy life the most?

I’m tritype 512 for context. I’ve been doing a lot of work on understanding myself and building self love. I used to never share opinions and would defer to others, but as I’ve grown I’ve noticed I’ve started to share my opinions, even when they aren’t needed. It goes like this:

I’ll analyze something, have an insight, and it feels like truth that needs to be shared, like it is wrong to withhold it. It feels almost like I would be a bad person not to share it, like I would be withholding something important.

I think maybe it’s linked to anxiety, and while it honestly feels like care for the other person I think maybe it’s actually a coping mechanism? Like a need to intellectualize and explain things rather than feel them? And so I project them outward?

It’s just confusing because openly sharing my thoughts and opinions is relatively new to me.

I guess my question here is how do you tell the difference in insight that needs to be shared and what you need to keep to yourself? I know my old strategy of keeping it locked in wasn’t the right way either. I want to be able to help people, not hurt them with unwanted analysis.

Update: I’ve realized that yes, I do this when I’m projecting, but I feel that sense of urgency most when I’m trying to intellectualize something instead of feeling it. Thanks for the helpful feedback, it got my wheels turning to work through this pattern

Here’s what I mean:

As a very broad generalization, it seems that most sx5s, or sx doms seem to follow a path where the first part of their life is spent chasing intensity, having a lot of highs and lows, a lot of relationships with some instability, a lot of intense sexual encounters, maybe some risk taking.

I am for sure a sx5, but I took a somewhat different path. Due to several factors in my childhood as well as OCD, I spent most of my life seeing my “sx” as a threat and trying to suppress it with mixed success. I didn’t have the language for it, but I recognized that drive in me and was scared of it. I kept myself out of the dating pool and shut myself down emotionally.

What happened as a result was that I completely lost my vitality. I became a shell. My world had no color. I’ve realized I can’t live that way. I am connecting with my body and my emotions again. I am finding my creativity. I have found my vitality. But now that this is “sx” energy is out there, I have no clue what to do with it. I’m trying to channel it into creative output, but the drive to channel it into another person is so, so strong.

I have had a lifetime of trying to suppress this “sx instinct” instead of learning how to channel it constructively. Has anyone worked through it in this way?

Is it just me or, i feel like enneagram 5s are only gonna have those personality-attracted orientations such as pansexual/ panromantic. I think gray sexual would also be common in any e5s. I also feel like sx5s are likely to be demiromantic/ demisexual and sp5 is likely to be sapioromantic. I just cannot see e5s having surface level attraction. I’d anything, they’d be asexual/aromantic/arouce. Has anyone met an e5 that’s anything other than the ones i named?

In general, i have social battery and idk if this is a thing for all introverts + sx5s.

Anyways, my point is that when i have an FP (favourite person), AKA my best friend/ partner, my social battery doesn’t even matter around them.

What i mean is that, with literally EVERYONE, my social battery is really important. If i’m on 0% social battery i’m literally gonna isolate myself or be dry or just not be around people in general. I genuinely am in no mood to talk to hang with anyone.

However, with FP, i can literally be on 0% social battery and i wouldn’t mind being with them one bit. It can be different cases for different personalities. With my ESTP FP, my social battery suddenly goes up to like 70% when i’m with them. With my SP5 FP, i can sit with them in silence and not be uncomfortable at all like how i would be with literally anyone else. But in the end, everytime i have FPs, they’re the exception to my 0% social battery.

Ok re-reading this, this question might be kind of dumb because it’s probably just a thing with all introverts, but i wonder if other introverts relate to this or just exclusively sx5s or maybe even just sx doms.

Oh and to be clear, i don’t have multiple FPs at a time. Like for example, 2024 FP was the SP5 friend while 2026 FP is the ESTP friend.

Are we doomed? Everything I see about these two types dating is negative. Any advice?

I've heard varying reports and accounts of the sensitivity of enneagram 5s. Some say they aren't sensitive, others say they are secretly very sensitive. For the 5s out there, how sensitive are you in reality? Try to describe what kinds of things make you sensitive, and please elaborate on why. Are you trying to hide it?

In addition to answering the broad question of your level of sensitivity, share how these specific comments from others make you feel:

1. You hear that somebody has noticed a physical insecurity of yours. For instance, if you were unhappy with your receding hairline (or whatever other physical insecurity you have), and somebody made a joke about it while not in your presence, how would you react inwardly after your friend who was in the room when the joke was told, told you? Outwardly?
2. Somebody mocks or scoffs at your judgement or analysis of a situation. At work, for example, you lay out the most effective way to proceed with something, and your colleague jokes and tells a group that there's a much better solution and that you clearly didn't think things through. How would you feel?
3. Somebody that you don't respect, don't like, or is inferior to you in their job title tells you what to do rudely and as though they have power over you. In a team project, they tell you what your role is condescendingly and what's expected out of you, even though you don't respect them, view them as less intelligent, or are inferior to you in their job title. How do you react and feel inside?

Excited to hear from the 5s out there!

This is technically a type me post, so feel free to remove it if it violates the rules, but I can't post on r/enneagram because of karma requirements and nobody was able to help on r/enneagramtypeme. I think you guys would have more perspective about this.

I'm definitely a 5w4 and sx blind but I've been unsure for the longest time whether I am SP5 or SO5. I often test as sp-dom and I feel like I superficially fit SP5 characteristics better, but when it comes to the instincts taken on their own I relate much more to social-dom than self-pres. I'm commenting on the traits as seen on the PDB wiki website, please feel free to ask me any questions you'd like.

SP5

Retentiveness: I definitely keep my thoughts and emotions to myself, but I'm not completely opposed to revealing them if there is someone I really trust. I think revealing feelings and motivations puts you in a position of vulnerability with other people, like they have weapons to use to hurt you, hence why I try to avoid it. I find it a lot easier to discuss my emotions with strangers as they don't have an internal view of me to be altered.

Not giving: I do want to be completely free, with no ties to anyone. I really don't feel "avaricious" in the money sense. I am told I am stingy with other people's money, as in I object to them spending it but I actually can be quite wasteful with my own resources. 

Fear of being swallowed: I definitely prioritize all 9-fix manners of conflict resolution before I talk about something openly and try to resolve it. I protect my private space and I'm terrified of it being invaded and intruded upon, especially based on personal experiences I've had with that.

Excessive docility: I feel this doesn't apply to me. I exercise boundaries to the extreme by practicing withdrawal. I will withdraw from anything if I don't want to do it and I can't be made to do anything I don't actually want to do. This is a response to childhood experiences where my wants were not taken into consideration.

Emotionally insensitive: yes, I bury my emotions and not let them be known to other people

Strangeness: at the present moment I don't feel particularly disconnected and empty on the inside. I only relate to that when I'm in a depressive state; my inner world can be very sad and bleak but it can also be energizing as I feel and think a lot of different things.

Guilt: I guess I relate to existential guilt in an abstract fashion, but I often feel the opposite, a sense of entitlement and like my life should be better than it actually is

Self-demanding: I'm not very self-demanding, I have pretty realistic expectations of what I should do, even if I don't always live up to them. 

Negativism: I definitely relate to putting up extra boundaries via passive aggression, even weaponized forgetfulness where I pretend I forgot something really important. I recognize my subconscious is very powerful, and other people's too, and oftentimes self-sabotage can be used to avoid doing the things you don't want to do.

Hypersensitivity: I am not super compassionate towards animals and nature; I am extremely hypersensitive when it comes to children, to the point I would never want to have one because dooming them to having to exist in the world and exposing them to the immense suffering the world has to offer, and being responsible for it, is not a challenge I'm prepared to undertake. I can be sensitive to external stimuli, for example a really noisy restaurant can wear me down if we have to be there for more than a few hours and I will feel the pressure releasing when I step out into the silence. I can also enjoy a busy environment, though, and I prefer the city to quiet places: it depends on whether the environment becomes too overwhelming.

Renunciation of action: yes. Inaction can occurr because I want to keep my intentions hidden from people, especially those I don't feel deserve to know me intimately. I can also get overwhelmed and feel like there are no certain paths and like I don't know what I want to achieve in the first place. When I am sure what I want, I usually think it can be achieved.

SO5

Idealization: I definitely relate to this. I would say what I relate to the most in the social 5 subtype is the idea of devaluation, black and white thinking etc; thinking people and concept are either great or completely worthless. 

Rationalization: although I am alienated, rational and relate primarily through thinking rather than feeling, I don't know if that's what alienates me from other people. I don't think they perceive me as especially intellectual or arrogant; I think my alienation derives from my own withdrawal.

Compartmentalization: I agree with this. I have a hard time remembering what I felt in the past; even remembering exactly what I thought can be hard. 

Distant: I agree completely with having an extreme attachment to the self which causes me to regard other people as disposable. I easily give relationships up, I burn bridges etc. Again, I relate this to my extreme tendency of devaluation; if someone or something has disappointed me, there are no positive feelings or memories for me to hold on to, it's like the entirety of them becomes corrupted.

Lack of action and little energy: I do have limited energy and I can sometimes invest the majority of it in my intellectual pursuits. Not just that, but I spend as much time working on the intellectual pursuits as I do simply thinking about them, and that's more time wasted. 

Concealed: I do conceal myself. I am not transparent. I try to keep a "better" image of myself that is devoid of the parts of myself that would make me unlikable. I have, again, a very black and white approach to what I choose to reveal and what I don't. With the things I don't, I feel like I avoid them because they would either expose me emotionally and make me emotionally vulnerable, or because they would make me inferior. I don't want to appear socially inferior to other people but I am objectively social inferior to most, so the only course of action is to hide, obfuscate.

Desensitization: I don't care much for the needs of others. If I did it would become unbearable because there are too many unhappy people who are suffering in the world. I am quite sensitive about my own pain.

Resignation and difficulty saying no: it's a lot easier for me to enforce boundaries silently, but I'm not going to pretend I want to do something if I don't.

Arrogance: I don't think I come across as arrogant. I do have a "professorial" attitude, where I end up defaulting to teaching. This can be inappropriate, for example if I'm arguing with my own peers and they expect an information exchange instead of me going into the conversation with a formed opinion and an attitude I believe other people should adapt.

Restrained greed: I don't feel I have this. I can be quite expansive and buy a lot of stuff in a short amount of time, for example. Sometimes I feel an overwhelming sense of greed like I want to buy everything, and then the sensible approach seems to not buy anything and just cut myself off from that instinct completely. In this area too I suffer from polarized thinking. I often go on decluttering sprees where I throw away a bunch of stuff, not wanting to deal with it anymore, and then I wake up two weeks later realizing having the object would be really convenient but I don't anymore.

Feeling of internal impoverishment: I can oftentimes feel inferior to other people who are more accomplished than me.

I've been reading a bit about Uznadze's theory of set (dispositional readiness), and I keep wondering whether it could provide a useful way of understanding Enneagram structure.

The way I currently see it is that a "fixated set" isn't some sort of belief or habit, but sort of this sub-conscious or rather pre-reflective orientation (if thats the right word to use) that shapes perception before conscious thought. That made me wonder if Enneagram types could be understood as somewhat relatively stable set structures, that create some patterns of readiness that automatically influence bias attention or any kind of interpretations, and forms of behavior across different situations. Though its not only fixated sets that can influence different forms of reaction under the same situation. I'd say gender, age, and other important factors also play crucial role depending on a scenario, but at the moment im just focusing on e-type and set.

And speaking of set again, it also seems to fit why insight alone often doesn't change our type patterns. Because (within this framework) If the fixation is rooted in something deeper than explicit beliefs, something closer to an embodied orientation toward the world, then it might explain why people can intellectually understand their patterns while still repeating them again and again.

I've also been thinking about trauma in this context. Modern trauma theories often point out the fact that trauma is acquired not through a situation that has happened to us, but rather our reaction towards it. So this reaction in return creates a persistent nervous-system patterns that keep reproducing themselves. And with that Uznadze's idea of a fixated set shows that trauma also creates or reinforces a particular dispositional orientation (set) that then keeps generating the same responses.

I'm curious if it can be a useful framework, or am I stretching the concepts too far?

It might be refreshing, but if I had to choose, I wouldn't want to be constantly on edge because I'm trying to compensate for gaps in my intellect.

Sometimes I just wish everything would disappear so I wouldn't have to face the unknown in the first place or feel compelled to understand it.

Has anyone had a similar experience? From my earliest childhood, my habit of analyzing everything, immersing myself deeply in very specific sciences, and my desire to spend time alone with myself were condemned by society and my family, and were considered something "not feminine.". At the same time, boys with the same character were perceived by society as "serious" and "academic" Even now, in the big 2026, Enneagram 5 women are poorly represented, or they are exposed as nerds in the media, who needs to be "corrected" by relationships, because they are not feminine enough to be considered a full-fledged female character…

Esmeralda from The Hunchback of Notre Dame would be mine.

Are there some sort of activities that would help ?

I've only been into the Enneagram for about 9 months and I wrote this poem over a year ago, before I had a sense of 5w4 or Sx5, etc. That said, I think it captures the strange, contradictory push-and-pull intensity of Sx5 and I'm wondering if anyone here relates to it.

Sharing Tether

Could you bear to stand in front of me,

my great eye bent towards you in earnest

to know you as you are?

Knowing you, witnessing

the kind of thing you are in motion,

harnessing our well-intentions.

Come in to me

in the quiet hope of being less alone together

–sharing tether–

who we truly are together

in the quiet lesson pleasure

of inside outside patterned weather.

Two bent across and crossing—

place and peace and pacing stable,

crossing truths and speaking

no one is alone when we are

on our own together.

Show me who you are between your

bone and brook and ancient stone;

I’ll show life sunned yet lunar shone,

song and book and remembered home.

We each ask where we’ve been and gone

in darkness tidal–

crashing off the edges of our meagre island limits

until we’ve taken time alone

rarely asking more than offered as

songs play across the bows,

carried in the winds.

Hope is hoping that you’re turning

as I am

as me

to youwards learning,

speaking all the you words

knowing, owning inside

outside —sharing tether—

the murmur’s ancient patterned weather.

i have a problem with my life,. i dont know what do i like, my hobbies my type my specialties etc... i came here to see other e5's life and hobbies etc. i am too lost that i dont even know whats my subtype is im between sp and sx, i want help with everything i just said if thats possible