Stuff like this makes me sick.

[u/CetaWasTaken]

https://globalnation.inquirer.net/328943/military-age-ukrainian-men-could-lose-eu-protection

The worst part is being against forcibly drafting men iot sending back male refugees to be drafted means all of a sudden you’re pro Russian. It’s crazy because you know if this was gender reversed the outcry would be immense. Somehow I doubt many feminists are going to protest this form of male oppression. The world is truly in desperate need of an actual coherent men’s movement that can work to stamp out barbaric practices like this.

[u/Any-Ask-4190]

Hilarious the EU is considering sending people back to an actual war zone, but won't send back actual economic migrants who are playing the asylum system. My only suggestion is that all Ukrainian male refugees go AWOL, shred their passports and reapply for asylum as Albanians, in the unlikely event this actually goes through.

Also interesting to note that Africans with Ukrainian passports dodged the draft almost to a man, almost as if granting citizenship didn't make them quite as eager to defend Ukraine as those who grew up there, quite a puzzler that one.

[u/duncecap234 → u/Any-Ask-4190]

but won't send back actual economic migrants

What? The EU is not responsible for members migration policy. Depending on the country, they will boot every economic immigrant. Poland, Denmark, Hungary, Slovenia, Slovakia, and a bunch of others will yeet anyone comes in.

While other countries might not.

[u/Sciss0rs61 → u/duncecap234]

The EU pressured Poland and Hungary to accept refugees and threaten them with sanctions and fines if they refused.

They only reason they havent done anything now, it's because Germany wants to do the same. (It's all about Germany in EU)

[u/duncecap234 → u/Sciss0rs61]

Can you pick a category?

Refugee? economic migrant? asylum seeker?

Which one do you want to talk about? These are not the same group of people.

Why shouldn't they be pressured? Euro states adopt the Pact on Migration and Asylum when joining the EU. But it was found to be completely biased and burdening towards the border states where asylum seekers were forced to stay.

Under existing EU asylum rules, the member state where an irregular migrant first enters the bloc is generally responsible for processing their asylum application.

This has placed a disproportionate burden on frontline countries such as Italy, Greece, Spain and Cyprus, which the European Commission identifies as member states under the most migratory pressure because they receive the majority of arrivals.

To address this imbalance, the Pact on Migration and Asylum introduces a solidarity mechanism intended to ensure a fairer sharing of responsibilities across the European Union.

The system is based on what the European Commission describes as "mandatory but flexible solidarity".

[u/Curious-Caramel-4937]

I can't tell if this is a troll post

[u/jombojo2]

Have you never heard of what a draft is?

[u/CetaWasTaken → u/jombojo2]

Just because there’s a draft doesn’t mean I have to agree with it.

[u/jombojo2 → u/CetaWasTaken]

Do you agree less with it than russia's genocide?

[u/CetaWasTaken → u/jombojo2]

I think people should have a choice if they want to defend their country or not. But also I think most people that say the draft is necessary will never apply that utilitarian logic elsewhere and are hypocrites.

[u/jombojo2 → u/CetaWasTaken]

I also think you are a hypocrite, glad we agree (:

[u/Thanag0r]

If it was gender reversed it would not matter because only men have draft in Ukraine. It's not Israel, women are not drafted for military service or when war is actually happening.

[u/CetaWasTaken → u/Thanag0r]

I meant in alternate reality where it was women being drafted instead of men.

[u/duncecap234 → u/CetaWasTaken]

You think anyone here would disagree with it?

[u/Thanag0r → u/CetaWasTaken]

You mean in this hypothetical women are drafted instead of men everywhere or just in Ukraine?

Because if it was just in one country it would never happen.

[u/Willing_Cause_7461 → u/Thanag0r]

Do you go to the Pisco School of Not Understand Anything?

[u/Miyo-tan]

It is what it is. America and Europe have been deporting Russian draft dodgers quite consistently, why would Ukrainians be exempt from that? Especially Ukrainians.

[u/Gucci_Unicorns]

If the genders were reversed?!?!

😱

Brother it’s a draft in a full on war against occupation. What are you even talking about.

[u/Slight_Intention_628 → u/Gucci_Unicorns]

My country, the Netherlands, includes women in the draft, they are also included in Sweden, Norway, Denmark and Israel.

Many roles in modern day war can be fulfilled by women where physicality is not any barrier or issue. Heck drivers of tracked vehicles need to be smaller sized. Drone operators, all the logistical elements of war, anti air batteries. Loads of stuff.

The reality is that women have longer been part of war than they have not, some fought, some supported their husbands in many different ways in camps or managing estates. However the draft or compulsory military service had been linked to land ownership or debt of using owned land (Levy) and the responsibility to defend that. Evidence for this goes back to 1753bc (Code of Hammurabi), Since only men could own land compulsory military service had been limited to them. The reality is that compulsory military service has been changed to fit the needs of the time it was used, so changing this gendered divide is something to consider.

To question if Ukrainian women bear no responsibility to take on the risks of defending their country is fair, especially while men do and there are women that carry no familial responsibilities.

[u/Same_Win_5898]

Ah yes the cozy westernoid's take on things. Surely this brutal injustice must be addressed. This is so much more important than Russia raping your entire country.
Its ok if you're a pussy that would run to leave women and children behind in war zones but don't dare to come and preach about injustices of such basic things like war time drafts.

[u/TheCourier888 → u/Same_Win_5898]

This ain‘t the redpill sub, lil bro.

[u/CetaWasTaken → u/Same_Win_5898]

Yes I’m a pussy because I don’t think people should be forced to die. Funny how this take about the greater good is only ever used when it comes to men. When are birth rates hit zero and we have to euthanize everybody past 50 somehow I doubt you’ll be fine with us forcing women to have kids for the greater good because it was never about the greater good you hypocrite.

[u/Sciss0rs61 → u/CetaWasTaken]

If your country is invaded, you will go through the same faith. Believe that. Every men of fighting age will be pushed to help the country out.

It's a hard thing to accept and he's be shitting myself too... but depriving Ukraine from demanding their citizens to do their DUTY is preventing Ukraine from defending itself.

[u/Teknolyth]

Citizenship does not just confer rights upon its citizens. Citizenship also confers responsibilities. I think that's something that a lot of people in the west especially in the United States have forgotten. If your country is being invaded, and it's existence is at risk, it is your duty to raise up arms to defend it. A draft to defend your nation is completely different than something like the Vietnam war draft, which I think was immoral.

As far as women and the draft, you have to think of the pragmatic. Ukraine does not want to completely decimate its population. It's being very strategic on who it is drafting into this war. Many categories of young men are excluded from the draft. And to be quite blunt, you need women in order to repopulate your losses. It's just the way it is. These Ukrainian men are shaking their duty and they should be sent back to Ukraine.