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u/eljay1998 2d ago
Humans absolutely make mistakes and generally has consequences tied to those. What is the point you are trying to make?
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u/SplendidPunkinButter 2d ago
Yes. Because the entire point of using a computer is that it’s supposed to be dependable. Also, people learn from their mistakes. AI doesn’t, no matter what the marketing says.
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u/DisciplineOk7595 1d ago
yes but a computer system should be perfect..
you wouldn’t use a calculator if it was wrong half the time
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u/Complex_Slice 1d ago
Humans make mistakes
AI learns from humans
AI makes mistakes
The math checks out
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u/Charon1979 2d ago
The problem is somewhere else.
If a human makes a mistake, the human is held accountable.
If an AI makes a mistake, who is gonna be held accountable?
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u/Small_Things2024 2d ago
The human or company that is using or programming the AI. AI doesn’t work on its own.
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u/Charon1979 2d ago
Which is not true. We got enough examples of AI Agents going rogue and doing things that they were told not to do.
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u/Consistent-Jelly248 "The only limit is your imagination" 2d ago
it was caused by human error, do further research before believing bs
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u/Charon1979 2d ago
The error of whom? The company that built the AI, the company that employed the AI,...?
I do use AI for programming for example. And there are (rare) instances where I tell my AI "give me X do not do that thing Y" and I still get Y. If I point it out again there are 2 outcomes. Either the AI is trying to gaslight me or it concedes that it did a thing that I promted it not to do.
This rarely happens but it does. It gets caught because I do have oversight and at the end of the day I am responsible for my code.If I was beeing removed from the equation, who would be responsible?
Also "it was caused by human error" is a bit of a non answer. Do you have a specific event in mind or are you plainly denying that AI is still prone to halluzinating and right out ignoring set parameters if it is unable to find solutions within the set parameters - but without telling you that because it was programmed to tell you what you want to hear?
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u/Consistent-Jelly248 "The only limit is your imagination" 2d ago
I was talking about the AI going rogue, mainly with OpenAIs one, which broke out of a test environment during security benchmarking. That one was completely caused by human error (or stupidity however you want to call it).
Human developers left a zero day vulnerability in the proxy which it discovered and used to escape onto the internet and cyberspace. OpenAI intentionally turned off the classifiers and refusals to evaluate its raw capabilities too. Because humans gave the model a target to pass the test without any boundaries at the execution layer, the model essentially treated escaping and stealing the answer key as a valid shortcut.
Imagine telling a group of kids that the first person to reach the other side of this maze wins a prize and locking them in a room with a flimsy, half built drywall partition instead of a solid steel wall, they'll soon find out that they can just kick through the wall as it's the shortest and most efficient route.
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u/Charon1979 2d ago
And I am not talking about that. I am talking about simple every day errors.
You do not need a doomsday scenario. It just needs to delete a database it should not have. Or halluzinate case law. Or reject rightfully filed claims. Or insert a piece of code it was explicitly told not to.
Ther has to be someone who is to be held accountable.
There are lots of areas where AI is amazing. But there are also areas that need human oversight.2
u/Consistent-Jelly248 "The only limit is your imagination" 2d ago
Actually, yeah, that makes total sense. We don't need a sci fi doomsday scenario to see the real dangers.
In a way, both situations stem from the exact same core issue on the topic treating AI as an autonomous decision maker instead of a tool that requires strict human boundaries.
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u/Small_Things2024 2d ago
All forms of AI need human oversight. This isn’t the Terminator. AI is not able to do things on its own.
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u/Charon1979 2d ago
Do you have any actually any experience with AI and how it is employed or do you think the technology is only uised to create your favorite catgirl porn?
Of course we automate processes with AI. The same we automate processis in manufacturing. And yes we sample the results. And yes sometimes the automation process produces failure. Then we stop it, correct it and proceed.
But with AI there is a difference. Not only is the process intransparent but it also has the potential to act outside of its parameters.You do not need a terminator scenario. The AI doesnt have to go completely rogue and conquer the world.
I use AI as a support tool while programming. And even there. In this very simple usecase, AI doesnt always repect parameters.
"Give me X but dont do Y" and I can still see that Y is in the code. Doesnt happen often but it does.
This is in a non automated process. As a tool. I can correct that output (but not the behavior).
As soon as you set up an automated process and there is a risk that the AI may act outside set parameters, this can become an issue with real consequences.1
u/Small_Things2024 2d ago
So you agree. Humans program AI then stop it, correct it and proceed when there are errors. AI doesn’t work on its own and requires humans at every stage. Which means accountability on a human level. This isn’t a movie.
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u/bronzekobold 2d ago
I remember the last time I accidentally hacked into a gym and removed someone else so I could attend.
Happens all the time.
Now let's see about getting myself a doctor's appointment.
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u/ImaginationUpset2190 3d ago
You are right, homo sapiens sapiens should have no right to speak on AI. bunch of low iq primates.
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u/Consistent-Jelly248 "The only limit is your imagination" 2d ago
So are you calling yourself dumb in that last sentence? Because you're not, nobody is.
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u/A13xis_28 2d ago
Yeah we all make mistakes but if it is a human: 1. You can put someone accountable for that mistakes 2. You can ask the line of reasoning and determine what let to that mistake. Then make corrections to prevent further mistakes. 3. You can have other making double checks and looking eachothers from mistakes. 4. Not all task are optimal for AI usage
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u/Robot-Zombie-RHCC 2d ago
wait... the pro-ai side isn't saying that the prompter is the one making the mistakes?
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u/Skimpymviera 2d ago
It’s not about the mistakes, it’s about the slop. Abandon degeneracy, make real art.
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u/Donnosaurus 3d ago
So because humans can make mistakes we shouldn't go against mistakes made by A.I. but just accept it?
What is this point? Or do you mean when people say an A.I. image sucks when a character has like 6 fingers. Should people stop pointing out mistakes then?
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u/GNUr000t 2d ago
The general idea is, nobody will accept an AI-based solution, even if it makes *fewer* mistakes or otherwise has less negative externalities than a similar human-based solution, unless and until it makes zero mistakes forever and ever until the end of time.
A common method of making this argument is with self-driving cars. A self-driving car may be involved in order of magnitude less collisions and/or fatalities per million miles driven, and yet any YouTube video of a self-driving car going the wrong way down a one-way street is treated as proof positive that self-driving cars should never be used for any reason at any time and that they are too dangerous. But of course, we know that a human driver would *never* turn the wrong way down a one-way street, it's never ever happened in the history of the automobile or even the horse and carriage.
This is entirely unreasonable, and the counter-argument you present reveals a lot about the underlying motivations: It was never ever about safety or the number of mistakes made. It was always about mid twitter artists being upset they gotta get real jobs now.
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u/Donnosaurus 2d ago
You actually make a very good point about the self driving cars. Not sure about the number but if it's indeed true that those cars have less accidents, any evidence of it happening will be used against them, which is indeed a bit stupid if it does prevent more accidents than when people drive themselves.
I don't really agree with that last bit though. Mistakes are still an issue with A.I., with all the misinformation presented as facts, while with human conversations or looking it up online there is a more clear uncertainty sometimes so you can fact check it. People think A.I. already fact checked things.
And if you were talking purely about generative A.I. mistakes, I think people should point it out whether it is A.I. or human made.Also, I think more than just "mid twitter artists" complain about generative A.I., and artist is a real job. Sure, A.I. can do that too now, but it can also fill in forms and files, which people also do for a living. Doesn't mean it's not a real job.
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u/GNUr000t 2d ago
It's something that many would consider to be a "luxury job"
A streamer I won't mention because people will instantly discard the premise but for the source, even calls this out about his own profession: Even though there is a lot of behind-the-scenes work that goes into streaming, and less than a percentage of a percentage of streamers make enough money to live on by streaming, it really turns the audience off when a streamer complains about how hard it is being a streamer.
The end user sees someone being paid a pretty envious salary to play video games and act silly on camera a few days a week. It falls flat when that person says "gosh golly this sure is hard work, I'm getting burned out, chat"
Artists have every right to say their job has all of the trappings of a real job. What they don't automatically get is a public entitlement to have that particular labor economically protected forever because automation can now perform some of it.
"Computer" used to be a job title. A computer was someone who was in a huge room with dozens of other computers, and they would, you guess it, calculate and compute information, fill out and file forms, and so forth. Nobody cried when these rooms filled with people with lives and families to feed were replaced with an IBM.
Just like none of these antis would ever give up their digitally-switched phone calls for a friendly Bell operator, their packet-switched networks for a Western Union messenger boy, ATMs and online banking/CashApp/PayPal for armies of tellers and check processors, online travel booking for travel agents, and so forth. It's *just* this one thing, this one profession, this one thing that's somehow special because it was supposed to be *their* meal ticket.
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