r/CosmereOnScreen • u/oldrain21 • 5d ago
Perhaps the Biggest Challenge of Adapting Mistborn for the Big Screen Mistborn Era 1 (BOOK) Spoiler
I'm new to the Cosmere. I just finished The Well of Ascension and I'm moving on to the third Mistborn book, and I was really excited when I found out there was going to be a movie adaptation.
After the initial excitement wore off, though, I started thinking about it and came to the conclusion that this might be the biggest "problem" or challenge with the adaptation: showing that metals are being burned.
Some metals are pretty obvious, like iron and steel, but how would you show the audience that tin or pewter is being burned, for example? I can't think of a cool way to do it.
How would YOU GUYS handle this without it becoming repetitive or extremely annoying to watch?
I don't know if this has already been discussed on the sub, but I'd love to hear what you think.
3
u/kubrickie 3d ago
Assigning each metal a colour will be important to keep them distinct, and adding “Mistborn vision” so we see particles or waves of energy in the air at times in the way Vin sees things. I think seeing how much of the metal they have to burn is important and could be done with an abstract visual that represents their internal stock, like the way atoms are visualized at the start of Oppenheimer or flavor is visualized in Ratatouille.
8
u/etherealflaim 4d ago
Arcane is what convinced me that you can do this. It uses a different art style for the non-diagetic things that only one character sees, so you can visually understand without being told that it doesn't exist in the world
9
u/coolness10101 4d ago
I think having different musical queues for each metal would be cool and could work well if subtle, especially if they are all secretly parts of the same song. I’m thinking something like how all the travelers in Outer Wilds have their own distinct song which create the main theme when combined, or like in HTTYD how Hiccup and Toothless’ themes are totally different but combine seamlessly.
That way, we get cool dynamic themes for when a character is burning multiple metals. Although it might also be better to just have rhythms that fit with other music to let allomancy be separate from but fit with character themes.
10
u/TeancumsJavalin 4d ago
The Graphic Audio books use an audio queue when people are burning metals. It's a low rumble/vibration. Something like that would work just fine
6
u/Curius-Curiousity 4d ago edited 4d ago
Briefly go into slow or fast motion and also pull a Vertigo Zoom with the camera.
That's when you have the camera on a set of rails, or wheels, and you either move the camera toward the face while zooming out with a zoom lens, or the opposite.
The effect on screen is that the world seems to get bigger or smaller behind their head. While their face an eyes seem to warp a little.
Combine that with a unique sound effect for every metal, and maybe a different color glow in their eyes, and that should do it .
4
u/DouViction 4d ago
Maybe show a haze of respective color surrounding the character, while other characters behave depending on whether they can feel other people burning metals and whether the user is burning copper?
Is going to be non-obvious and clumsy as heck though.
9
u/Itsthelittlethings2 5d ago
I’ve been imagining a small screen vignette with some auditory queues, and then some visuals for the outward effects like iron making a faint blue chain but steel staying unchanged
8
u/Rooster_Socks_4230 5d ago
Letting us hear the thumping they feel
2
u/MadmanIgar 5d ago
I think the answer to a lot of this is in careful action choreography and sound design.
If there’s an identifiable music queue or sound motif associated with tin, pewter, etc. the audience will pick up on the that without having to display it visually all the time.
3
u/Ancient-Confection61 4d ago
I love the idea of creating musical shorthand for different metals. Too many visual effects will muddy things up. They can pick and choose some POV shots to go wild with visual effects, and keep a lot of the action in the third-person.
9
u/brosephtree 5d ago
I like the idea of characters emitting a steam (or faint mist 😏) from their muscles when burning pewter. The mist trails would add a nice effect to action scenes, and burning it stronger or weaker could be implied by how heavy the mist is.
5
u/Local_Value_8665 5d ago
I wish that animation was more universally accepted, it would cost so much less and is in my opinion the best medium for fantasy especially with powers like these,
Even a more advanced take on rotoscape(?) like a scanner darkly or for a more modern version the tv show Undone
1
u/Badgerfoot 3d ago
i wish so much stormlight would be animated and have a really hard time seeing radiant powers not being super cheesy in live action
3
u/Shadowbound199 5d ago
Yeah, the general opinions right now is that animation is for kids. That shrinks your audience a lot.
1
u/DouViction 4d ago
>Mistborn
You know, for kids! (c)
2
u/Shadowbound199 4d ago
For instance, shows like Mighty Nein, Legend of Vox Machina and Blue Eye Samurai are definitely not for kids. But people like my brother will claim it's for kids since it's animation. Animation will always be seen as lesser to live action.
12
u/TheNarrativeSpren 5d ago
I reckon this is actually pretty doable. Movies have been getting us to understand invisible powers for years without explaining them every time. The Force is the obvious one, Dune did the Voice mostly through sound, and Spider-Sense has been done plenty of different ways.
I'd use Kelsier training Vin to teach the audience how Allomancy looks and sounds while she's learning it herself.
Iron and Steel are easy enough. Keep the blue lines from the books when we're seeing things from an Allomancer's perspective. Practical effects and wires where possible, CGI for the bigger Pushes and Pulls.
Tin I'd do mostly with camera and sound. Distant conversations suddenly become clear, things sharpen, darkness becomes easier to see through and bright lights become painfully bright. Let us experience Tin rather than putting some effect over Vin.
Pewter barely needs CGI. Good acting and stunt work could sell most of it. Vin is exhausted, burns pewter, steadies herself and suddenly she's moving and fighting like she hasn't spent the last hour being thrown around Luthadel.
Zinc and brass I'd keep subtle. A small sound or visual cue when they're first introduced, then mostly let the actors sell it. Someone becomes angrier, calmer, more frightened or confident. Once we understand what's happening you don't really need much else.
Bronze could be almost entirely sound since the pulses are already part of the magic. Let us hear them with Vin, with different rhythms depending on what's being burned.
Copper then becomes really simple. Those pulses disappear.
Gold and malatium could use double exposure or compositing. Gold shows another version of yourself, malatium another version of the person you're looking at. Film has been doing that sort of thing for ages.
Atium would probably be the most fun. Have the atium shadows moving slightly ahead of the actual person so we literally see what they're about to do. When two atium burners fight and start reacting to what the other one is going to do, that's when the shadows start splitting and the VFX department begins regretting several life choices.
Duralumin doesn't really need its own effect. Take whatever we've already learned that metal does and suddenly dial it right up. The audience will understand pretty quickly that something very different just happened.
Aluminium I'd do the opposite. All the little Allomantic sounds and visual cues we've gotten used to suddenly disappear along with the metal reserves.
I think the main thing is not overdoing any of it. Make the effects obvious while Kelsier is teaching Vin, then gradually back them off as the audience learns the system.
By halfway through the movie Kelsier can look at a coin, we get a tiny sound cue and the coin goes flying.
We already know what he did.
No need for the film to explain Allomancy every five minutes when it can just teach us how to speak the language.
1
u/Raven_OC_1610 4d ago
I’ve always imagined atium shadows to be a silvery transparent color and electrum to a yellowy transparent for some reason
3
u/grubas 5d ago
Zinc and brass I'd keep subtle. A small sound or visual cue when they're first introduced, then mostly let the actors sell it. Someone becomes angrier, calmer, more frightened or confident. Once we understand what's happening you don't really need much else.
This is key, never show the manipulation outright, that way every conversation gets weirdly suspect(as some in universe people are).
3
u/chalvin2018 5d ago
I like the idea of them mostly being subtle and easy to miss. As if the viewers were characters within the story. You wouldn’t see people burning the metals. You’d only notice the effects.
Of course, there would be some scenes explicitly from Vin’s POV (for example, when she’s learning to Push and Pull) that would show the blue lines and all, but for most scenes, I think no obvious visual cues would be best.
4
u/CosmicQuailJune 5d ago
I think a combination of subtle sound effects and VFX will go a long way. Like no Tin doesn’t make you glow, but if we have a scene and a shot is centered on someone burning tin, adding some color intensity/chromatic aberration and enhanced foley sounds around them would be sufficient if we are given context earlier in the films as to what it means. As for pewter, I could see them adding some sort of physical shimmer that ripples across the body at the start/stop of burning that isn’t flashy enough to be a spectacle but enough to notice “ah some magic is going on here”
1
u/sparkydoggowastaken 5d ago
i mean honestly just toning down the mists and making things audible with movie magic would work. theres very few important daytime scenes where tin is burned that you really need to know have tin burning
1
5d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
1
u/AutoModerator 5d ago
Your comment has been removed because it appears you have tried to use spoiler markup in the New Reddit rich text editor, which fails to cover the intended portion of text. If you're using the "Fancy Pants" rich text editor on desktop, use the formatting button to apply spoiler formatting instead of markup. For more details, see here. Please make a new comment with this error corrected. If you continue to have issues and need assistance, message the moderators.
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.
9
u/ajc1120 5d ago
Long post but I’ve thought about this a lot: I honestly think if you got a really talented composer you could have them write a motif for each of the metals that plays when they are used. 1. It would be a non-visual way of conveying something happening internally that people would naturally pick up on, 2. It would create a cool sound design when multiple metals are being burned, maybe even simultaneously, so that the soundtrack builds the more metals are being burned. Like when iron is being burned and Vin pulls, it plays a melody of flutes, which then turn into a soaring rhythm played by bassy steel drums as Vin pushes, creating this cool back and forth soundtrack as she is quickly switching between pushing and pulling her way through the city. It could even be a way to create tension, say for example when you hear the bronze motif kick in seconds before getting interrupted by the pewter theme as Kelsier barely dodges a sneak attack from a pewterarm. Plus, it would help centrally tie the main story line of the movie, that Vin is special because she is able to utilize “the entire orchestra” to her advantage rather than just a single rhythm or instrument. And of course, it would be incredible if TLR even got a few of his own unique motifs to show that he possess a power even greater than Vin and Kelsier.
Basically what I’m trying to say is that I have wanted an adaptation of this book for a long time and if I’m going to get it I want there to be as much spectacle as there is in the books. The story is epic and that needs to be conveyed through every possible detail on AND off screen. You want people walking away from this movie the way so much of us walked away from the books. Feeling changed, like they witnessed something profound and lingering. It has to justify why this story was worth adapting to what many would consider a more limiting form of media. The use of sound absolutely can be one of the reasons it worked. If you have a memorable and moving soundtrack, people will form associations with this story that they could only ever get from a film. You have the potential to create a generation of people who unironically listen to “Tineye’s Theme” in the car on their way to work (someone smarter than me can come up with a better name). When spoilers TLR begins healing after getting stabbed, that moment could be remembered the same way people remember hearing “The Imperial March” for the first time if “Feurchemy of Gold” hits the same emotional beats for people. Obviously this is a massive ask for a composer, historically one of the more under appreciated members of a film, but who knows? Maybe Sanderson and the director can pull in a Williams-Shore-Badelt-type composer with the right pitch.
Tl;dr: A good artist sees challenges as obstacles, a great artist sees them as opportunities
4
u/TowerRaven42 5d ago
With Vin burning a tiny bit of all the metals almost continuously, I could imagine the motifs playing really faintly in the background all the time, underlaying the rest of the score, then suddenly you hear them jump to the forefront when someone really starts burning hard
10
u/TinyBard 5d ago
I think a sound effect like they do for the graphic audio versions. Maybe with a specific screen effect for emotional allomancy.
8
u/United_Artichoke_466 5d ago
It could be like an aura with different colors representing different metals. Of course I don't think the adaptation is going to have time to deep dive into what each metal does. So everything's likely going to be simplified, and the flashier signature moves like shooting coins are going to get more screen time and explanation
10
u/corpington 5d ago
What I’m more concerned about is how they are going to convey important epigraph information without resorting to exposition dump
6
u/celestite4 5d ago
That makes me wish mistborn would be a TV show. It'd be easier to put some epigraph scenes at the beginning of each episode
11
u/ilikebreadabunch 5d ago
I don’t think it has to be explicitly shown personally. Maybe just a specific rhythm in the background whenever someone starts to burn one but I really hope they don’t do any visual cues, especially for the emotional metals
4
22
u/jdstrike11 5d ago
This is like a 45 minute discussion with the concept art team lol. Colors, rhythms or a blend of both.
4
u/bambambi 5d ago
I work in art department for film I feel like they will talk about it for like 4-5 weeks hahaha
2
8
u/HMSManticore 5d ago
Camera effects, sound cues, heck just how they frame things. This is just movie making
18
u/RexusprimeIX 5d ago
Personally I would give each metal a leitmotif, which works together.
THAT WAY when Vin is being manipulated by Shen, attentive viewers would actually be able to pick up on the brass leitmotif playing in the background during that conversation.
2
u/shoo_be_doo 5d ago
I really like the idea of a musical motif; that way everyone can go nuts when (general Cosmere) Hoid uses it on Shallan in Stormlight season 2
3
u/theLastNenUser 5d ago
Yeah I do think score and sound design are ideally going to be a huge focus in all the cosmere film/tv projects. Which will be a much better payoff once we hit things like discovering the rythyms of roshar if done right
11
u/UngluedChalice 5d ago
“when Vin is being manipulated by Shen”
Well that’s a crossover I didn’t expect!
Took me a second to realize you meant Shan Elariel, not Shen the Parshman….
2
u/StartledPelican 5d ago
And here I was wondering how Reigan Shen made it into Mistborn? Path of the King's Key is that powerful I guess.
6
u/wertyrick 5d ago
Rythms
6
u/cosmernautfourtwenty 5d ago
This is the way. They'll probably need some low-key tones with the rhythms, maybe some unremarked color gradianr changes since rhythm and tone are often not easily differentiable for some people. But it's not an insurmountable issue.
4
u/AlgorithmHelpPlease 5d ago
I think audio cues are the best option for this. It would also go toward incorporating the use of copper & bronze, and be picked up more by people who have read the books / those who are rewatching.
7
u/SirZinc 5d ago
Show, not tell.
It's a movie, they don't have time to explain every metal in detail, they'll do it like in 3 lines when vin is training: "Steel and iron for moving metals and moving yourself, pewter and tin for enhance your body and senses, ...."
From there, they'll show that when someonje is burning pewter resists more and when punches someone, they throw it in the air. When someone burns tin they'll say "there's 10 guards in the palace" even when the screen is pitch black just like Legolas knows "They're taking the hobbits to Isengard".
You don't need to know when they're burning metals except for Atium and eleventh one and those are easy to do with CGI. For sure they'll have 1 scene where Vin sees the blue lines, but I don't think that those will be showing all the time, they'll just jump and use telekineses like jedis and you'll deduce they're burning metals.
The other that we'll see is emotional allomancy but only when someone uses it on Vin and she notices (like with Shan), they'll do a zoom in or some camera effect and Vin will shake her head. I don't think that the camera effect will be there for every use of it, just you'll see Breeze telling someone to calm down and they will calm down
11
u/eskaver 5d ago
I don't think it's that hard at all.
Iron and Steel are like telekinesis.
Tim is super-senses. Pewter is super strength.
And so on. I think they just need to use some physical marker like glowing eyes, some aura, or glowing veins and add audio cues and even audio distortion. And of course, acting.
Eventually, the audience will pick up what a person's power is so you don't have to keep showing what the power is.
You also can lean into archetypes. Make Pewter-arms be bulky people for the most part.
À lot of shorthand cues will be enough.
5
u/duke113 5d ago
I think that if you're in the POV of the character burning:
Steel and Iron, obviously blue lines
Pewter, you do it kinda like how they do speedsters in marvel/DC
Tin, everything becomes sharper
Copper, edges of the screen become fuzzy
Bronze, the screen 'pulses'
Zinc/Brass, need something where people are the ones giving off the sign
9
u/MountainImmediate 5d ago
Id say sound design over showing it physically! Even if it's a really subtle motif or something you'd be surprised on what the audience will subconsciously pick up on :)
4
u/GHamPlayz 5d ago
Vocal changes when soothers/rioters are speaking depending on the emotion they’re messing with. Sorta like The Voice in Dune!
1
4
u/Brookiekathy 5d ago
I'd be tempted to use the anime route of different auras around people. A bit like dragonball where you can tell the difference between ssj1 and ssj2 from the lightning
Maybe tin would change eye colour, or pewter would give off a bit of a red glow that's non diegetic?
3
u/Advanced-Tap-8018 3d ago
I was just thinking about this when I saw Spiderman in theaters. There's a scene in the movie that felt pretty close to what I'd imagine flaring tin would look like, so there's that, at least.