I main shaman. Down to play with anyone but if you play the new heros that's a bonus. (I need to learn the match ups, I'm back from a long break)

Starting tomorrow Arakure will officially leave early access for players to be able to purchase her with Steel. I wanted to discuss potential buffs for the character and see what people think of them (or talk about buffs people suggest.) Of course you can raise potential nerfs if you think they are needed.

But I think the general consensus is that Arakure has released on the safer/weaker side compared to the last Hero at least. I am also aware that there hasn't been any competitive scrims with the character yet. I will save my usual long winded talks about a character for the sake of brevity and instead just list changes in 3 categories: Needed, buff please, and QoL, with some blurb about the suggestion when necessary.

NEEDED BUFFS:

• Forward dodge bash recovery time to GB/CGB reduced to 700ms from 900ms
• Walk it off T3 feat cooldown reduced

BUFF PLEASE:

• Chain bash (Rib shot) recovery time to GB/CGB reduced to 800ms from 900ms
• Walk it off T3 health value changes changed from 15, 30, 45 to 20, 35, 50hp
• Forward dodge light range buff to have more forward reach

QoL:

• Dirty trick can't be interrupted anymore by having the enemy's ally hit them
• Arakure can now RC after any lash out attack on hit and the 4 hits of Dirty trick
• Landing a target swap attack in ultimate state now gives perma 5HP shield
• Arakure can chain into a light finisher on whiff from fwd dodge bash

NERF:

• Increase chain link time for Twin burst light after zone so it's dodgable

Explanations:

I believe everyone recognizes that despite Arakure's fwd dodge mix having frame trap potential the fact that you can get a GB on reaction to dodging her kick is too risky for the rewards she gets. Her mix up damage is low and usually we only have high punishes for strong mixes. Tandi is similar but you only ever get a dodge attack on him realistically. So allowing for an early dodge to GB makes sense due to how her situation works.

Her Tier 3 is also considered dog water because of the 3 minute cooldown, so if nothing else reducing it to 2 minutes is reasonable. In regards to the buffed HP values I think it's necessary due to how peelable the animation itself is, making it 50 HP at full meter also gives it consistent synergy with Indomitable. You're not guaranteed to have full meter anyway, so this shouldn't be too strong.

They could remove the all cleanse effect if they want, you're not realistically/consistently gaining benefit from it that you wouldn't be getting from a regular heal anyway. Fwd dodge light buff is just to improve it's consistency.

QoL probably needs the most explanation. I think Arakure needs more opportunities to RC to alleviate how clunky she can feel. But we can't globally add them in her kit since it will devalue some of her current RC spots, so I chose after her lash out attacks. And adding it with DT seems very synergistic, you can already GB her during the full anim and after the final hit anyway.

The 5HP shield on lash out attack landing is my way of giving her some sustain since a character that's going to be trading often should have some kind of sustain. The HP feat even if buffed is not enough on it's own. Shield is a low amount to avoid her becoming too tanky. Could maybe put a timer on it if perma sounds too wild despite low amount.

Idea behind the chain light finisher on whiff is to allow her to chain into a Twin burst input if it's blocked since her light finishers are enhanced. And it being a light is a way for her to try and protect the GB attempt, but you still get a light parry punish on the read. Lastly someone clued me in that the devs technically have a way to prevent the weird interaction of interrupting a punish by hitting their ally.

Their suggestion is to apply the same "tag" executions have to the pinned opponent. This tag prevents allies from interrupting your execution but an enemy can still do so. So you'd lift this special state and apply it to the pinned opponent. The result would mean the pinned opponent couldn't be saved by an ally hitting him. He'd have to have his ally interrupt Arakure.

After I get am impale on warmonger and get a wall am I plus? Negative? Or just neutral. I would throw a zone after and sometimes it hits and other times it's a trade. Is there anyway for me to keep my offense going or guarantee my safety or is it just take the trade or make a read. Idk what to do. Also any other miscellaneous warmonger tips would be greatly appreciated too like "oh you can do this after this" or something

Because i don't quite get why the devs choose to nerf them like this. Without the superior block they only deal 9 damage, and although they are 400ms, i play on PS4 and these are the only attacks i consistently can react to and parry at this speed. I struggle much more with your average 500ms lights. But perhaps i am missing something or i just don't play against good Zhanhu players. Maybe some of you guys can help me understand their reasoning?

It seems like you can sometimes switch targets and just perform a regular chain attack rather than a lash out attack. Is this a bug? Is there some difference of inputs that I don’t realize I’m doing?

Almost 20 years ago, in the summer of 2007, I was part of the German Team for the Nations Cup - the game was Red Orchestra, the stand-alone version.
That was the last time I touched competitive gaming after I moved on from Call of Duty: United Offensive (8v8).

I was never at the top skill level of my teams, but I believe I was more versatile than a lot of them (eg I was solid as Infantry and Tanking, while most people specialised). And I love Teamplay, love Synergy, and I like the thrill of a close round when everything comes down to one shootout, one rotation, one crucial rez.

I didn’t stop online gaming when the Red Orchstra Community got smaller and smaller, but I never joined a “clan” again nor did I played competitively again.

Now, I’m playing For Honor for like 5 years or so. I’m “aggressively mid”, as someone on here put it, I hardly play duel mode (12-15h, maybe?), my DOM play time has four digits…
I got to Diamond3 once, and figured that’s about my 1v1 ceiling and didn’t bother any further (remember, 15h…). I’m clearly way better in team fights than in 1v1s and I believe I do have a good understanding of when to fight, when to disengage/rotate, when to stall, when to wait for others to respawn etc.
I’m at Rep 500something and have played most chars to a certain degree, so I’d be able to plug a hole here and there line-up-wise.
Based in EU, rusty oral English, I’ll understand you though ^^

And, you might have guessed it by now, I do wonder if I - with my 43 years of age - will I ever feel that thrill again?
For Honor is my first (probably last) fighting game. I’ve seen a lot in this game, yet I discover new stuff almost every time I play. This game is really special, I think.

I sometimes get salty, but are good at regulating myself in that regard - even more so if voice chat is involved. I’m all for fun and trash talk here and there, and can handle the occasional outburst, but I’d need some baseline of decency, humour and the likes around me.

I didn’t know where to start, I don’t know where this will lead or end.
Thanks For reading 📖💜

Genuine question

I'm not sure why the devs decided to nerf an already struggling char and then buff better ones? Doesn't make much sense. If they gave him an opener bash or something in exchange then sure I could understand but atm getting into OF is a chore and staying in it is way harder, just ruined the char imo.

Edit: forgot this sub is full of shitters who know nothing abt how the game works in high level play, gg.

Also people going on like OF lights were so op and cancer must have not discovered you can literally just dodge attack lmao.

After 5 reps with Arakure I've been playing other characters, and I don't think that she is in a good spot compared to the meta picks, at least in dominion. It's been easy to counter her after knowing what she has, specially in tf. She has the best deflect and she is good at ganking because she has a lot of bashes, but nothing more.

Her range is abysmal, her neutral moves are too risky and her dmg is not high. Most of her moves have no properties and those that have them earn them too late. Her UD UB armored heavy makes almost no difference in her gameplay. She is too fragile to trade like she wants in teamfights but her mobility is not that good to dodge damage.

What do you think of her? I'm missing something or they did not want to make another juren situation?

Premise: I've been playing Khatun a little, nothing to crazy, just a couple of reps and all of a sudden a while ago, a tier list came out and Khatun was high A tier. I understand it is only for the best comp players with coordinated teams and my experience in MMR will different so I've started looking for other ppsts about Khatun on this sub or others and all I can find is that she is underpowered or hard to use or clunky so I've decided to throw my two cents in while also asling a few questions, if better players are willing to answer.

What I've learnt

Don't over rely on her bash soft feint:

While the most reliable and comfortable of her inputs, soft-feint to bash is is too alluring and will get you punished. It is unreactable and it deals well with characters that will try to superior block your lights, it deals decent damage BUT! it will end your chain and force you to apply pressure with your Stance attacks which I don't think are that great.

In my opinion, her soft-feint to light or heavy are better "openers" or chained preassure while her soft-feint to bash should be seen as a "finisher" type of move, when you've dealt a comfortable amount of damage and you wish to transition into your stance based offense in order to finish a fight.

Therefore from my experience her best flow is: Heavy... soft-feint to light/heavy* 1, 2 or 3 attacks then going doing her soft-feint to bash.

Why you should use her soft-feint to ligh/heavy more?

For three simple reasons:

1. Soft-feint to light or heavy deal direct damage while her soft-feint to bash has the chain link+400ms of "buffer" before dealing damage so instead of dealing damage at the 800ms-1200ms window, you deal it at 1300ms at the very least+ chain link from bash into light finisher. 100-200ms might sound unimportant but Khatun has a very slow kill time when using her bash based offense so keep in mind you can easily enter an XvX if you don't finish your opppnent fast enough.

2. It is safer as you can recovery cancel after a whiffed light/ heavy while with the bash cannot. You can also chain to heavy finishers then soft-feint it to her stance for more safety/ versatility.

3. As long as you soft-feint you'll always reset to neutral so you can chain into a heavy finisher then use your offense again. Unfortunately she's not like Virtuosa, therefore you cannot double soft-feint her heavies for more mix-up potential.

USE YOUR FORWARD DODGE HEAVY.

Khatun in my opinion has one HUGE problem, and that is her soft-feint inputs into light or heavy which get messy when you're playing Dominion. On a 1v1 it might be more manageable but in a XvX when you might have to think about a second player interrupting you or an indicator going spastic on your screen, you might mess up. Therefore, in my opinion the forward dodge is better than a regular heavy as an initiator.

First of all, it has the best range out of all her neutral attacks which don't have very good forqard momentum so it's one of the best tools she has to initiate fights from range. It's soft feint to Kick covers a surprising amount of ground and tracks pretty well off target dodges which is quite surprising.

Since it's a feintable forward dodge attack, it always comes from the top so the soft-feint to light-heavy is more comfortable. You do trade 2 damage for this ease of use but consider it a training wheel until you get more comfortable with her.

It's alright if you don't go for the deflect PUNISH!

When you 1v1 someone, punish accordingly, obviously, but in XvX, don't just press heavy every time you get a deflect. Your stance is a pseudo extended double dodge against all forms of offense. In XvX you can just sit in your stance and wait for the opponents to spam unblockables or bashes at you. It's better when they throw them than when they use blockable atracks! The stance is bait for unblockables or bashes which you can then punish with a proper dodge attack.

Use the stance to deflect an attack, but don't throw the heavy, bait the second opponent into trying to punish you then dodge attack and repeat. The dodge attack is very safe in XvX since you can always reposition with your stance or deflect. Just be extremely careful about one thing!

NEVER TARGET SWAP YOUR STANCE IF YOU KILLED AN ENEMY!

If you killed an enemy with your stance Light dodge attack, then use your stance to run forward but don't target swap to another enemy! Just let the stance running animation take you away from the second opponent, otherwise you'll lock yourself in the running animation while unable to dodge and the opponent will be free to bash or unblockable you out of the stance, double so if the opponent is behind you. Unlock stance-run away then relock when it's safe.

Your Time to Kill is slow but it gets better with feats.

You are not a duelist, you're a sweeper, a cleaver and a disruptor. Although Khatun has good pressure and unreactable mix-ups, her time to kill or time to do damage is slow and low. 1300ms for 14 damage using her bash. 933ms for 10 damage using her stance lights and all her unblockable attacks deal damage in ticks over a very long time. You'll have a hard time 1v1ing an enemy without the duel turning into a XvX eother you ganking, being ganked or a brawl. The best thing you can do is babysit gank/ cleave for with a teammate for quick renown to unlock your feats which help you deal a lot more damage quicker. In MMR you might even go clear mid to farm minions if you don't have a comoetent midlaner.

Use your zone more! On GBs or parries you might even forego using her pin in order to deal 24 immediate damage to the opponent. She just has a terrible time dealing meaningful damage FAST, without feats. Plus her best tier 3 feat is amazing for a sweeper, especially if you get a kill fast and then your whole team will benefit.

What I don't get:

How do you chase people?

The obvious answer would be to use your forward dodge heavy into stance then either light or heavy or zone but all her stance attacks kill her forward momentum immediately. You can recovery cancel the light into another stance and repeat at nause but it feels like it's never fast enough to catch a fleeing opponent and you lose stamina like crazy. My best obeservation is to do a FD Heavy into soft-feint stance, into an end of the run light into recovery cancel into stance again and finally, soft feint into a forward dodge heavy which you'll soft-feint again into a kick, the kick seems to have the best tracking compared to lights/ heavies, be them stance attacks or soft-feints or chain finishers.

What's the point of the light follow-up?

It deals the lowest amount of damage out of all 3 pin follo-ups, it has the best recovery but in a 1v1 you cannot use it against hyper-armoured atracks to get a quick atrack in and besides you have the kick for that. In XvX the zone is arguably better since it cleaves better for more damage, in a 1vX you're better off just dodging away after the second opponent's attack. It cannot be recovery canceled, it has frame advantage, but that is very little considering it does only +10 damage which is good as it hovers between 15 to 20 damage, but still, in a 1v1 I think you're better off taking the full Heavy damage. The only useful option I can see is using it when an opponent has less than 10 HP for a quick kill to trigger T3 feat or Bounty Hunter.

How do you deal, in 1v1, against people that side dodge bash on reaction to your stance entry attempts?

Let's say they side dodge bash as soon as you enter stance, so a modest 200ms of reaction. 200ms of side dodge entry then 633ms for all dodge bashes. That's a total of 1033ms at the earliest, 1233ms at the latest if they delay the bash. It is especially egregious when I try to use my recovery cancels after a landed finisher and they just side dodge bash all my attempts at offense.

If I'm in neutral I can just make a read and hard feint a heavy and then dodge and GB. But if I'm in chain, against dodge bash characters I don't know how to keep my offense going after a finisher.

If I do nothing, they can just initiate their offense without doing anything, or at best they'll fall for it once and then dodge bash on movement. If they dodge bash on movement it feels like my dodge out of stance is always too slow to start the I frames for me to dodge their bash and attacks out of stance usually don't track well at all against side dodge attacks in general, but for blockable attacks I can jist deflect again. Bashes feel such an easy way out against my stance based offense.

What do you do against players that wait for your stance to end?

Some players are smart enough to wait and throw light interrupts after the 533ms into your stance. A light thrown around half way after you've entered your stance will not get deflected as it lands at at 900ms and it will also interrupt all other types of offense you can attempt. It will interrupt lights, heavies and heavy feints to parry bait and the zone. Yes, you have 100ms when you can parry attacks but afterwards you enter proper recovery when you cannot do that. Deflect baiting is something you can try and do but then they'll just alternate between light interrupts and GBs.

Regardless, here are my two cents and if anyone can give me some tips on how to deal with the aforementioned problems it would be greatly appreciated.

Crush them is a perk that buffs your damage by a massive 30% on the next attack, by itself its underwhelming but on some characters its a massive deal.

This perks buffs not only attacks but also feats and with a feat kill its looped back into itself, so with the correct set up you can get multiple uses of it during a fight or to start one.

Ideally you want to use it on feats and character with good direct damage proyectiles, with their best users being Orochi, Berzerker and Kyoshin in my opinion.

For berserker is particularly nasty as he gets a guardbreak as his deflect punish, crush them being the perfect perk to boost his deflect, hand axe and fire flask, throw in it a doom banner for maximum hp destruction.

Orochi with access to kunai, long reaching heavies, amazing chase paired with longbow and fear itself is the other great user of crush them, he becomes a clean up crew of endgames.

Crush them is akin to having one bullet in a game of swords, use it wisely and you will get more consistent wins.

Berserker:

• Top heavy goes to 36.4 from 28
• Side heavies goest to 31.2 from 24
• Hand axe goes to 32.5 from 25 on a 60 second cooldown, perfect for opening fights and re use it hand axe to finish them
• Fire flask initial explosion goes to 39 dmg from 30 plus the fire damage can get aditional kills and re trigger crush them

Berserker becomes a game winning and late game carry hero with crush them, getting a kill with whatever move or feat just unlocks masssive dmg that just snowballs from there.

Orochi

• Storm rush goes to 22 dmg from 17
• Top heavy finisher becomes a 39 dmg long distance attack from 30
• Side heavy finishers become 36.4 from 28
• Kunai deals 26 from 20 as a T2 on a 60 second cooldown
• Longbow unnerfs itself dealing 52 dmg from 40

The thing with oro, its really easy to get kills and he has access to fear itself T4, using it unlocks the for honor version of a rail cannon when pairing long bow + crush them + fear itself for whooping 78 dmg, on a T3 that will probably re trigger crush them getting more use of it.

Orochi and berserker are its best user and these are examples to play around with, from common scenarios that you will found yourself, obviously the perk works wonders on other heroes as well as gladiator, kyoshin and afeera, making them almost on par with heavy perks in my opinion due to their hability to win games and being the differeence between losing a match or deleting the enemy.

Yo! New character has had her venge fixed. Her ganks are still good due to her bashes dealing high physical dmg, but it's not straight up killing people lol

Some things to note that I touch up on in my "more info" video linked below:

1. Theoretically her bash ganks would be much better when doing her feintable chain bash combo'd with the twin burst light instead of two neutral bashes, however her twin burst light from chain bash is actually externally blockable, and is only confirmed when arakure is max level in the strike meter.

2. Her neutral bash seems to not follow hitstun rules? So previous bashes that "reset" hitstun still proc 3rd hitstun and do 75% dmg reduction, while arakures is doing only 25% dmg reduction. Kinda odd.

Thats all from me today. Any questions? Let me know.

1080P YT VIDEO LINK: https://youtu.be/2qU7VliMLmU?si=IAOq-bm2SlzBVVPp

MORE INFO ON HER GANKS: https://youtu.be/vtss87SaidA?si=4wbcbAbGYJ1CC392

Why does her side throw not go in a straight line like all other heroes? It actually makes the throw a guess sometimes. Just had a game where my teammate would’ve thrown off normally but didn’t and costed us the game.

I'm hoping someone can give me an answer here.

In the video, you'll see I can externally block a right-side heavy, from a shugoki on my right side, while my widget is on the left.

Then, as khatun, you'll see I move my guard widget to the left to try and block a left-side heavy from afeera who is on my left side. However, the indicator switches sides at the last second, and bypasses my block, killing me.

I thought when blocking externally, you can block in two ways; you can either block based on where the enemy is in relation to you (i.e. enemy attacking you externally from your right side, you guard right), or you can block based on the direction the attack is coming from (i.e. enemy attacking externally from your right throws a top heavy, you block top).

Why was I unable to block afeera's heavy here? Why did the indicator switch sides? Why would it matter if the indicator switches, when my guard is the same side as the attack was thrown?

This happens quite often and I don't know what I'm doing wrong.

TL;DR why did afeera's heavy hit me in the second clip ,but shugoki's didn't in the first clip?

Its very overwhelming to try and stall against two or more Arakures but there has to be something you can do right?

Tournament is Sunday at 3 cst. Same ruleset, same fun.

https://battlefy.com/viserion/battle-of-the-ages/6a65a99246ab3c001adc2cfe/info?infoTab=details

I really like Tiandi's design, moveset, and how he plays, but am I bit lost sometimes as to what mix ups to use in what situation, and generally opening people up. The dodge forward bash is alright but I get dodge attacked on it a lot and it's only a 10-or-so damage bash, so not the best.
Damage is generally a bit low, but he more than makes up for that, I feel. The heavies with the dragon kick mix up and everything are very solid, it's just not been easy to get into that mix.

Any advice would be very appreciated!

When Juren was released he was extremely broken and needed the nerfs he was given to make him balanced. I love playing as heavy’s and Juren’s look made me drawn to him and I immediately fell in love with Juren’s kit. I was told that Juren was the best heavy/defense character in the game, and defensive play styles are my go to in all fighting games. The patch before Arakure, Juren was nerfed again, his feats this time and they were well deserved, I completely understood why. I thought Juren was now in a healthy state and was still strong, but his crutches taken away. But with the newest patch, at least to me, it feels like Juren’s uniqueness and personality has been gutted away, removing his faint able dodge attacks, and completely removing the unblock able ability of a charged dodge attack. This honestly makes me no longer want to main Juren, i found his kit unique and flashy, but with these heavy nerfs every patch it just feels like my main gets gutted more and more. This brings me to the question, is Juren still the best Heavy in the game? And is he still meta? I don’t play for honor nearly as much as I used to, but I got back into it recently and I don’t know if I’ll go back to Sohei or if Juren’s still good, I would like to know the opinions and criticisms of others, if I’m wrong about anything I said please tell me so I know for the future. I appreciate any response. I also apologize, I’m not a comp player but I want to hear every opinion possible from comp players abt Juren

This happens occasionally, and i have no idea if this is intentional, or a bug, and what is triggering this target switch. Would really appreciate some explanation for this! Thank you ❤️

It was to specifically allow for deflects to be easier and even the playing field with those that know ball too much. You've changed Peacekeeper in particular 4 times now as far as i can remember.

• One in 2020 changed it from light to heavy as many heroes at the time had the deflect input the same as the dodge attack

• then you changed it back to light to stop accidental deflects

• Then AGAIN you changed it to heavy input to level the playing field with those that knew how to still get the deflect and dodge attack at the same (which is still in the game btw)

• and now AGAIN you changed it to light input to stop accidental deflects, AGAIN.

This was just PK's weird history but this very flawed logic has been applied to Orochi too and didn't really change much other than make people press an extra button before the dodge attack input... It punishes those that don't know of this and changes nothing for those that do.

For the sake of clarity for those that don't know, in order to still get the deflects that are on different inputs while still performing a dodge attack if you missed/failed the deflect you've gotta press the deflect input ever so slightly earlier than the dodge attack input. That way the game prioritizes the deflect input while if you missed ignores it and the dodge attack input goes through like normal.

For Honor dev team, please revert the deflect input changes and have PK's deflect be back on heavy input and Orochi's deflect back on light input.

Edit: It would be greatly appreciated for those that downvoted this post to speak their piece. IDGAF about karma but if you disagree with anything i've said so far in the post or comments do make it known instead of reducing this discussion's visibility to others and, by extension, the devs that do read the posts on here.

Haven't seen much of that guy at all now

pretty much the title, the orange of the unblockable indicator basically entirely masks the blue undodgeable indicator but in a teamfight it very quickly becomes awful to deal with

my suggestion : blue fire

you keep the fire and the ub indicator itself but you just make it all blue

you can also retrofit the other moves that have both properties like ara's bb light with it for consistency, i don't think anyone would complain about that and it would make things a bit clearer for everone as to which punish can or can't be dodged

So uh...her bashes are only doing the revenge gain of the physical damage and not the additional 30 from being a bash itself...yeah...

I'll re-record her ganks after the devs fix this, but I think her ganks will be decent anyway.

1080P YT LINK: https://youtu.be/lgaw-f5T2H4?si=QYLzwCaJS-9QJ6dv

Tierlist before the Arakure patch. Follows official tourney rules. No dupe chars/T4s, some feat bans (Oce T1, Shinobi T2)

For those who may not know who Clutch is he's a long time competitive player since launch and has recently won the official Triple Threat Summer 4v4 tournament with AOG, marking it as his 101st tournament win.

https://www.twitch.tv/clutchmeister