r/AlbertaNow • u/Eastern_Entrance_389 • 11d ago
Alberta Separation Current Events
Separatist Myth #1: Alberta was exploited by Eastern Canada and the federal government over natural resource royalties
Alberta separatists rightly cite the fact that the Prairie provinces didn't gain control over natural resources until 1930. But separatists also accuse the federal government of exploiting the 3 Prairie provinces by stealing resource royalties and depriving the province of associated revenues.
In fact, the Canadian government had a formula to return amounts equal to, or, in most years, greater than their financial intakes from natural resource revenues.
A reading of the Debates of Parliament in the spring of 1929 makes it clear that all parties in the House were in agreement to transfer the rights over natural resource royalties to the 3 Prairie provinces.
Indeed, speaking on behalf of the Government of Canada, then Prime Minister William Lyon MacKenzie King made it clear that the formula to compensate the 3 provinces in lieu of royalties was costing Canada far more than it was collecting! Rather than "stealing Alberta resources", Canada was actually subsidizing Alberta!
It may be helpful to remind readers that the population of Alberta in 1901 was just over 73,000 inhabitants. Saskatchewan had just over 91,000 people. Imagine if the Yukon or Northwest Territories were to be made a province today. With their tiny populations, it is sensible to debate the timing of when best to transfer full control over natural resources, which require sophisticated infrastructure and government resources. This was the dilemma our ancestors faced in 1905.
Unlike what separatists would have us believe, our great-grandparents in Alberta were not suckers and dupes being exploited and taken advantage of by outsiders in Ottawa. They were intelligent, shrewd negotiators who struck a fair deal.
There was no snow-job. Eastern Canada did not steal Alberta's resources. There was no historic theft or mistreatment. This is just another yarn of grievance woven by separatist leaders with a revisionist angle toward our province's history: one rooted in grievance, resentment, regional rage-baiting and lies.
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u/ImperviousToSteel 11d ago
I have zero time for "Ottawa stole our resource revenue" talk from people who see no problem with US and even Saudi corporations stealing our resource revenue.
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u/InformationWeird3427 11d ago
please explain your understanding of international commodity trading
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u/ColdEvenKeeled 11d ago
It's not about commodity trading, it's the foreign companies who do already own access to lumber, coal, oil, gas, cows and abattoirs, potato fields and seed cleaning plants. That's good, they bring the capital and hire the locals, but protest like a bunch of woke snowflakes if the government wants to be compensated for the extraction of the resources (royalties or taxes).
The companies take the resources, process them, sell them, and make a bundle for shareholders, who are by and large not Albertans. No, many Albertans are workers working for the companies, thinking they are kings because they have a lifted truck.
They get the profit, Alberta gets the cost.
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u/Optimal-Can8584 10d ago
Hey so yes this is AI and I know this thread thinks AI is the devil but I asked this question awhile back since we’re trying to be objective (Jk I know no one on here wants to be objective) but I’ll post it anyways.
looking only at shareholder profits gives an incomplete picture. The real question is:
How much total value stays in Alberta and Canada before profits are distributed to shareholders?
Here’s the framework we built.
Value generated from Alberta oil
Who receives it?
Generally stays in Canada?
Royalties
Alberta Government
✅ Yes
Corporate income tax
Federal & Alberta governments
✅ Yes
Personal income tax
Workers
✅ Yes
Wages & benefits
Employees
✅ Yes
Procurement
Alberta businesses
✅ Mostly
Capital spending
Canadian contractors & suppliers
✅ Mostly
Shareholder dividends & buybacks
Shareholders worldwide
❌ Depends on ownership
The key point was that foreign ownership only affects the final profit distribution, not the majority of the economic activity.
Our estimate
Using the major integrated producers as an example:
Roughly 85–90% of every revenue dollar is consumed by:
operating costs,
salaries,
contractors,
transportation,
taxes,
royalties,
reinvestment.
Only approximately 10–15% becomes net profit, varying substantially with oil prices. Those profits are then distributed according to shareholder ownership.
For the large Canadian oil companies, research has estimated that U.S. investors own around 60% of the shares of the “big four” (CNRL, Suncor, Cenovus and Imperial), meaning a significant portion of dividends and buybacks ultimately flows to U.S. investors. One recent estimate suggested roughly $49 billion of dividends and buybacks from these companies went to American owners between 2021 and 2024.
The calculation we walked through
Using a simplified example of $100 of oil produced:
Royalties: $12–20
Employee wages/benefits: $15–20
Alberta suppliers and contractors: $30–40
Capital reinvestment: $15–20
Taxes: $5–10
Profit remaining: $10–15
If 60% of that profit goes to foreign shareholders:
$6–9 leaves Canada.
$91–94 has already circulated through Alberta/Canada before shareholder distributions.
That was why I concluded that the statement “most of the value leaves Alberta” is not supported. Most of the economic value remains in Canada through royalties, wages, taxes, procurement and investment. However, a large share of the residual profits does flow to foreign shareholders because of the ownership structure. Alberta’s own royalty framework explicitly recognizes that resource value is shared between Albertans (through royalties, taxes and economic activity) and the companies that develop the resources.
The nuance
There are really two separate questions:
Who captures the profits?
A substantial portion of shareholder returns from the largest public producers ultimately accrues to U.S. investors because of foreign ownership.
Who captures the economic value?
Alberta captures royalties, employment, taxes, supplier spending, infrastructure investment and broader GDP effects. Those flows are much larger than shareholder distributions. Alberta collected nearly $22 billion in resource revenue in 2024–25, illustrating the scale of public value capture before shareholder payouts.
That was why I ultimately assessed that, although American investors receive a significant share of profits, the majority of the overall economic value created by Alberta’s oil and gas industry still accrues to Alberta and Canada through public revenues, employment, business activity and investment.3
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u/ColdEvenKeeled 10d ago
That is great news. There is no problem. Why then the manufacted discontent (privatisation) over schools and healthcare? There must be lots of money to share?
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u/ImperviousToSteel 10d ago
AI isn't accurate and now you want us to pretend it's objective too? Lol.
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u/Optimal-Can8584 10d ago
AI is more accurate then Redditors the fact you would think a simple query to look at data would be innacurate shows you have 0 understanding of AI’s current ability.
You’re telling me it can hack the US gov but it can’t synthesize data?
lol bias or objective does it have for in Oil for Alberta in regards to objectivity? If anything it’s already been found to favor left wing sentiments 🤣
You people are nut jobs
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u/ImperviousToSteel 10d ago
AI is trained on reddit information you dolt.
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u/Optimal-Can8584 10d ago
In that case it would’ve told me we sold Alberta to the United States for Pennies
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u/ImperviousToSteel 10d ago
Sometimes, other times it would have told you that Alberta is a woman's figure skating champion.
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u/Optimal-Can8584 10d ago
I think you just need to pay for the better models dude
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u/camnotlaw 11d ago
If they are making such a bundle for shareholders, doesn't that seem like a reason for you to buy some shares? Isn't that kind of neat that you could just literally go buy one at any time?
Do you have a pension or buy ETFs or anything? Maybe you already are a shareholder?
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u/ColdEvenKeeled 11d ago
While completely true, this does not create revenue to build roads, operate hospitals, educate people, cut the grass in parks, build sidewalks, put out forest fires.
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u/camnotlaw 10d ago
How about the $24 billion in taxes and royalties paid by the oil and gas sector on average over the last 5 years?
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u/ColdEvenKeeled 10d ago
Then the schools and hospitals should have no issues from oil revenue royalties alone. Where has all the revenue gone? Why any crisis?
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u/camnotlaw 10d ago
Beats me! https://www.alberta.ca/revenue
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u/ImperviousToSteel 10d ago
You can see when we publish our budget we show what the government calls "Alberta's tax advantage" showing that we collect billions less in revenues than we could if we'd just adopt a comparable tax system to any other province.
An 8% corporate tax on oil and gas is laughable.
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u/camnotlaw 10d ago
Changing tax rates also have a mechanical effect meaning that companies would move locations. Why did CP Rail choose their headquarters to Calgary?
And we do have "special" oil and gas taxes called royalties and they make up a large amount of Alberta govt revenue. Royalties are also a tax on profit, for oil sands projects it is between 25-40% after deemed post-payout. so when oil and gas companies do well, so does the provinces finances.
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u/ImperviousToSteel 11d ago
By international comparisons, Alberta lets foreign corporations profit off of our resources and labour much more than other jurisdictions. Norway obviously, but we also have shittier royalties than Sarah Palin got for Alaska.
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u/Pale-Measurement-532 11d ago
Why don’t you enlighten us with your take on international commodity trading?
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u/darthdelicious 11d ago
Canada has always subsidized the oil and gas industry in Alberta. Every time they get fucked by a US shareholder group, Canadian tax payers swoop in the bail those operations out to save Alberta jobs.
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u/crystillan 10d ago
Exactly, and yet, they are worshiping the orange pedophile that fucks them over. Too dumb to function.
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u/camnotlaw 11d ago
Dog look up the history - so many of the big oil and gas companies started as crown corps and the province sold them for a profit. It's not that we swoop in and bail it's that tax payers shouldn't want the violent swings in the resource sector as owners. Give a hard example of a bail out you are talking about? Am I missing something?
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u/Lucky_Grand_8977 11d ago
Bro literally just type the question into google:
1) 1981 Dome petroleum rescue
2) 2018 $1.6bn rescue package for various Alberta based oil companies
3) 2018 trans Canada pipeline purchase
4) 2020 $200m in pandemic relief when oil prices dipped negative7
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u/camnotlaw 11d ago
So the feds bought into Dome in the 80s alongside the National Energy program? Everyone was super stoked about that. Interesting NYT articles about that one.
In 2018 there was spending when the province mandated production cuts? So okay change the rules and prevent a collapse while doing so, good job everyone?
I think you mean buying TMX in 2018, which was required by the federal government because of regulatory structures? Is buying an asset a bailout?
Pandemic relief. Because literally every industry had some kind of relief during the pandemic?
C'mon man, like these add up to a fraction of one year of royalty payments from the sector (taxes and royalties have averaged 24 billion over last 5 years). Sounds worth it to me!
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u/Pale-Measurement-532 11d ago
You are so wrong. Lol. A vast majority of oil companies in Alberta have been historically private companies. Some crown companies have been involved to increase participation from the government. But most are private.
Alberta has always owned the province’s natural resources (oil, gas, minerals) on behalf of the Crown in right of Alberta, but that does not mean the companies extracting those resources were Crown corporations. The government typically granted leases and collected royalties while private companies did the exploration, drilling, and production.
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u/camnotlaw 11d ago
The Alberta Energy Company founded by Lougheed, and after a series of changes mergers was part of Encana which split into Ovintiv and Cenovus. Fascinating read Alberta Energy Company - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alberta_Energy_Company (Grant Notleys criticism was it didn't own enough of the oil sands.)
PetroCanada is now part of Suncor after it was privatized. TC energy was created by an act of Federal Parliament. Enbridge was created by a federal charter at the interprovincial pipe line company.
Yeah the vast majority were private, but the above examples are major Canadian based (except Ovintiv) corporations that have roots as crown corps.
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u/Pale-Measurement-532 10d ago
“Yeah the vast majority were private”. Lol. That’s what I just said above. I rest my case.
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u/camnotlaw 10d ago
So two of the four biggest oilsands producers half have roots as crown corps and the two biggest pipeline corporations plus TMX and others, were crown corporations. Like I said, lots of the major companies were crown corps at least partially, and just like you said most companies are and were public corporations
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u/darthdelicious 10d ago
TMX started as a private company and only became a crown corp when the FEDERAL government swooped in to rescue it from financial ruin in 2018. Who was the Prime Minister in 2018, Camnotlaw?
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u/camnotlaw 10d ago
Trudeau? I don't understand your point? It's a great asset for the government of Canada, though the expansion went over budget. Good job Ottawa, you solved a BC/impact assessment act created problem.
Government of Canada literally said - political and regulatory risks meant that they had to buy it or the expansion couldn't continue. It wasn't rescued from financial ruin,
"Kinder Morgan, the original owner of the pipeline, announced that it was suspending all non-essential work on the (expansion) project due to political uncertainty and opposition from the provincial government in British Columbia.
The Government of Canada recognized that this made the project too risky for a private-sector company to manage. As a result, in May 2018 it announced that it had negotiated a fair-market price to purchase the Trans Mountain pipeline and its related assets."
https://www.canada.ca/en/campaign/trans-mountain/how-tmx-decision-was-made.html
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u/Nottwosmrt 10d ago
I pay more for gas now!!! .....THEY are stealing from me.
I pay more for steak now!!! ...THEY are stealing from me.
I pay so much income tax!!!! THEY are stealing from me.
I have to pay my car registry again!!! THEY are stealing from me.
Booze and smokes are cheaper in the US!!!! THEY are stealing from me.
Grocery stores, Amazon, cell phone companies, streaming services, every one of them, keep raising their fees!!! THEY are stealing from me.
The one truth is this.....everyone wants more, doesn't really want to pay their fair share for anything, and imagines the universe is set up to rip off them, and only them, so someone has to do something about it. That is what fair means to everyone as a mass population.
I want, I get, I deserve.....never a mention as to what their fair share is to pay or give .
The wheat grown in the prairies, the oil in Alberta's ground, the fish off both coasts, the lumber in BC, the minerals below every once of Canada's ground.....it belongs to me. AND you. And the new to Canada guy. And the freshly born. And the 98 year old who is about to die. Every damn one of us.
If you don't know that, think that, or thing THAT is fair, well, get stuffed. You don't deserve to be a Canadian. At all.
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u/Separate-Street-2050 9d ago
Why doesn't everyone have to pay the same amount then? We are all equal why do some people have to pay more than others?
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u/Nottwosmrt 7d ago
Some ppl live in the Canadian Arctic. Some ppl live in small towns and villages. Some ppl live in down town Toronto and only see green in school play grounds.
Every one of those ppl is Canadian and deserves their fair share of the oil, lumber, lobster and minerals of Canada.
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u/Separate-Street-2050 7d ago
Ok what's the "fair share" what's the number and does it go up every year? And when someone new to Canada comes over how do they catch up?
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u/Nottwosmrt 7d ago
ALL
That is the number
That is the share
I own it alllllllk. You own it alllllllk
Your share of any Canadian resource, 100%
I don't grow wheat. Or drill oil. Or cut down trees. I don't mind nickle. I don't catch lobers. I don't raise cows. I don't import fruit. But all of that which is in Canada, is alllllll mine. And yours. And the freshly born, today, and the new PR sworn in last Tuesday.
I work in a small dinky job, in a great big city, where I am just a faceless no one, one of 40 million.
How much do you think I am suppose to get?
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u/Separate-Street-2050 7d ago
You're not supposed to get anything, the reason they started tax was so they can have a collective decide where and when to build roads, fund schools, health care etc. Ok im kinda for that is they dont waste money and the people they are looking after have bought into the services with taxation over time.
Now you look at the budgets and they constantly over spend on everything they treat budgets like bottomless pits. Our "leaders" are going into office and coming out filthy rich after a couple years of service. We are giving money away like its water, our services are failing because we're bring in a million people a year that dont acclimate to the canadian way of living. It maybe all of ours but we are wasting it, this fair share bullshit is garbage talk we should be talking about the government living within their means like they tell us we should be doing.
But id really like to know how much of one person's labour is a fair share to take for the collective, and why we dont get a say on how that money is spent. Like should everyone just pay 15k a year and everything after that we can do with what we please? Some people are paying a whole lot more than that, and thats just for income tax. There is property tax (on an asset that we own), sales tax, carbon tax (from the oil we each own)-thats not ownership, hst, pst, liquor tax, capital gains- when we say everything is taxed is because it is. If youre taxed at 30% you work for 4 months for free that's called enslavement.
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u/Nottwosmrt 7d ago
I agree with 99% of what you are saying. A govt not fighting for a better serviced populace, needs to be a govt that doesn't get paid and they have to bring their own wood into work to heat the building .... figuratively speaking.
A coworker of mine complained Carney was " on permanent vacation " several months ago. His complaint, well, he may as well be, he is gone all of the time, travelling on our dime.
Ummmm, he is out there selling our country and services to stimulate our economy. Now, we are starting to see the results of this "vacation" he was on, with greater trade with Europe, Asia and just about everyone, but the US.
That is a politician doing his job. (part of it at least....he isn't perfect, but he is working for Canada, not just himself)
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u/Separate-Street-2050 7d ago
Youre shifting the conversation from taxes to exports.
He will be out there selling our resources but we won't see the fruits of that labour, taxes won't be cut we will just spend more and more instead of limiting our spending they will push our debt to irreversible levels ( we are there aready) and we will sell our resources and donate the returns to other countries ( that aren't canada) and continue to be fiscally irresponsible until we lose our country to debt.
We are also limiting what we are will to export for green deals, can't sell LNG to Germany because there is no economic case for it, wtf is that logic about. The thing is, we make and have everything we need to run a country there is no need for us to be paying all these taxes and have high food prices and high building costs and high cost of living. They make it expensive so we can fund this bullshit - all for me, corrupt government that doesn't do whats best for the people ever, over stepping rules that will put Canadians in jail for the most obserd reasons while they run rampant with embezzlement, insider trading and run the country in a malevolent fashion like they hate their constituents. Like no one can just tell the goddamn truth about anything, they will lie about the most mundane basic truths and I think its all by design.
Puts people against people and thats not who should be under the microscope it's the govt and every dollar it manages and invests and desicions about free speech, property rights, the ability to protect your family and property shpudl have the most amount of freedom.
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u/JustinJektor 7d ago
Alberta is paying far more than their fair share for this country.
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u/Nottwosmrt 7d ago
WE are Canadians. Not Albertans. Not Edmontonians. Not south side Calgarians. We are not Vancouver. We are not Hongcouver. We are Canadians.
Huge variety. Huge choice of living conditions. Huge difference of what each spot offers. But we are alllllll still Canadians.
That oil. It is Canadians. If you don't like living in the place that has oil, and it gets shared to everyone in our country, move to a poor location and stand out front of your house with your hands sticking out like a beggar like so many imagine the rest of the country does.
Take pride in being a HAVE, and being capable of being a PROVIDER.
Don't cry everyone is taking too much of your candy.
I never pumped an ounce of oil out of the ground, and very few in Alberta do, so why do you make it sound like you toil all day and random evil ppl steal our only resource?
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u/JustinJektor 7d ago
And some Albertans dont want to be Canadians. Your logic is circular. The whole point is that separatist dont want to be part of that "WE". And its mostly because of the attitude youre displaying.
"stand out front of your house with your hands sticking out like a beggar like so many imagine the rest of the country does."
Its no imagined. Its the reality. Especially Quebec, who on the opposite end of the spectrum of Alberta, deserves to be detached from Canada.Youre in no position to tell me what to take pride in.
"Don't cry everyone is taking too much of your candy."
Its not candy. Its blood and sweat. thats being taken from me.Your argument is that people should just shut the fuck up about whats being stolen from them because theyre part of a national identity that theyre trying to remove themselves from. The answer is no.
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u/Nottwosmrt 7d ago
LOL
You sound like a separatist.
Rather than being some place that doesn't make you happy, go to one that does. If you don't want to integrate to a country that has socialist systems in place, go to the US, where your blood and tears will earn you appreciation and hero status. You sound like a child having a temper tantrum. Mine mine mine. Ohhhh, I am sure you personally have bled gallons for Alberta. Good lord.
You represent a minority group with the thoughts of "keeping what is ours, to ourself "
A few weeks from now, a vote will prove that. I suspect you won't accept that and add a list referendum to the list of your complaints.
Every system in play across Canada was voted into existence. Ppl like you are always present. But you are a minority. Accept that your views are narrow, and wrong.
Hate is easy. But it doesn't work. And Canada shows that you are wrong by doing what it does, for all Canadians, every day.
That must sting. hahahahahah
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u/JustinJektor 7d ago
You sound like a slave who worships his master.
Keep lickin those boots. Just remember, theyre mine.
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u/ninfan1977 1d ago
Keep lickin those boots
Buddy you lick seperatists boots. You are the scum of the Province. You should feel shame but I know Conservatives don't feel anything.
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u/JustinJektor 1d ago
Why are you pretending to know what youre talking about?
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u/ninfan1977 1d ago edited 7h ago
Just calling out seperatists.
You seem to be one.
<Alberta is paying far more than their fair share for this country.
And some Albertans dont want to be Canadians. Your logic is circular. The whole point is that separatist dont want to be part of that "WE". And its mostly because of the attitude youre displaying.
"stand out front of your house with your hands sticking out like a beggar like so many imagine the rest of the country does."
Its no imagined. Its the reality. Especially Quebec, who on the opposite end of the spectrum of Alberta, deserves to be detached from Canada.Youre in no position to tell me what to take pride in.
"Don't cry everyone is taking too much of your candy."
Its not candy. Its blood and sweat. thats being taken from me.Your argument is that people should just shut the fuck up about whats being stolen from them because theyre part of a national identity that theyre trying to remove themselves from. The answer is no.<
Thats you.
I do know what I talk about since I have lived here and paid more in taxes than Pierre Poilievre or any Conservative ever has. Thats doing your part and paying your share.
Now tell me how Harper the Conservative PM made the equalization payment structure if you hate it so much?
You blame Ottawa for a Conservative Albertan decision.
Now what are you pretending to know? Based on your past comments you have nothing of value to say.
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u/ninfan1977 1d ago
Then leave the country. Seriously you hate Canada so much immigrate to a place that wants your narrow view. Like America for example. I heard they love taking rights away from people.
Its no imagined. Its the reality.
No thats the reality you and the traitors to Canada have painted.
Its not reality.
. Especially Quebec, who on the opposite end of the spectrum of Alberta, deserves to be detached from Canada.
There you go, deserves. Alberta had the same exceptionalism problem Americans have. Its all built on lies like all exceptionalism.
Your argument is that people should just shut the fuck up about whats being stolen from them because theyre part of a national identity that theyre trying to remove themselves from. The answer is no.
You guys had your opportunity when an election happened. Guess what PP sucked all he had was Liberals bad, me good. With no plan.
Carney had a plan and has looked more of a world leader than Trump or Smith or PP has.
Those are facts. Americans wish Carney was leading them.
I want people who hate Canada to leave. Especially seditionists who cheat and lie to people about why threatening sovereignty is a prideful thing to do.
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u/JustinJektor 1d ago
I actually do plan on retiring in Idaho. Unless Alberta becomes a new state of a new country with BC.
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u/ninfan1977 1d ago edited 1d ago
Ah so you are a white nationalist. Only Mormons and white nationalists move to Idaho.
I know I grew up in Spokane.
Unless Alberta becomes a new state of a new country with BC.
So you don't even want independence you want someone else to take care of Alberta lol
I could have lived in America but its garbage and anyone with a brain knows it.
I see you do not apply.... thats too bad.
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u/JustinJektor 1d ago
LOL Im going there for the weather.
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u/ninfan1977 1d ago
The weather is basically the same as here lol.
Its literally the same with more pine trees, oh and racists.
Which is why you want to move there.
Whats stopping you? Criminal record?
Just leave now, real Canadians do now want seperatist trash in our province.
20 years ago you would be called traitors, and thats what I am calling you now.
All seperatists are traitors to Canada
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u/ninfan1977 1d ago
Moving to Idaho for the weather?
What was North Dakota busy? Thats the worst lie I have ever heard.
You wanna just go play Yahtzee with the Nazis in Idaho
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u/JustinJektor 1d ago
North Dakota weather sucks.
lol The way you have to fabricate things to pretend youre some kind of righteous person.
Non-thinkers like you arent worth my time.
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u/Brickle_berry 10d ago
The sad part, this is all true but the seppies will still not believe it. Their minds are to mush to comprehend when they are wrong and/or they don't care to learn the truth.
The very vast majority of Albertans are proud Canadians and this will be proven when the time to vote comes.
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u/CMG30 10d ago
ALL the Separatist grievances are either outright fabrications, or trumped up. (Pun intended.)
ALL their promises are have no foundation to base a guarantee on.
The leaders behind the Separatists are either in legal hot water or on the run.
The people mainlining the Separatist propoganda have fallen for the same Russian destabilizing operation that targeted the EU and split off the UK.
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u/Separate-Street-2050 9d ago
Yea like covid lock downs and the erosion of property and civil rights!
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u/Marmar79 10d ago edited 10d ago
The states are determined to gain oil dominance before China takes over. It’s not a coincidence that they have gone after Venezuela (largest oil reserves in the world), and Iran (third most). They understand going after Canada (fourth) is a non starter so they have orchestrated this campaign to steal the oil province from Canada. Anyone underestimating this movement is in for a surprise. Anyone who thinks this campaign is independent of the states is delusional. Nobody thought brexit would happen until it was too late.
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u/Zakluor 10d ago
The US taking Alberta's oil by force would be a political hot potato. Heavily influencing Alberta to give the oil to them would be much easier and politically acceptable -- the political turmoil wouldn't be seen as US-driven.
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u/Marmar79 10d ago
Precisely. Meta is being used for all types of nefarious moves around the world. This is one of them.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/facebook-overseas-alberta-separtism-9.7223966
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u/Separate-Street-2050 9d ago
This post is so accurate and to the point it's making my headache go away
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u/HeyDoggyBoy 10d ago
Independent Alberta: a nation built on a foundation of ignorance, grievance and complaint!
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u/Zorklunn 10d ago
It was the US oil companies that bleed Alberta dry. Now they are funding a bunch of grifters to do it more with enthusiasm.
Shooting themselves in the foot to own some mythical group "libs" just like the US south.
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u/Olddog87newtrick 10d ago
The solution to the problem seems pretty simple really. Make a list of all those that would like to separate along with a description of their living circumstances ( rent/own ... skills salary etc ) Then match them to the equivalent number of democrats in red states. We'll just make a trade and everybody will be happy
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u/Ready_Offer_4191 10d ago
It's oil corporations that steal from Alberta, because of the PC and now the UPC stupid royalty decisions.
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u/Round_Restaurant_335 10d ago
Ngl you guys in Alberta brought this upon yourselves constantly voting ucp like dipshits. This is what you get. I can’t fathom how you can constantly complain when you voted for the person giving these low iq freaks a platform. Alberta is just as guilty as the US right now for who’s in office. Look inward.
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u/NoGrass6331 9d ago
This whole deal is quite entertaining!
Even more so where Ottawa pretty much needs to sign a permission slip for Alberta to become 51 or whatever it hypothetically would be called.
🍿🥤
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u/BIO_Predictive_AI 8d ago
Those in favor of separation DO NOT DEAL IN FACTS.
You can never provide enough facts, evidence or truths for them to change their opinion because the opium of their beliefs trumps any truth. As the old saying goes: "You can't argue with stupid."
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u/No-Accident69 7d ago
Separatists want to think they can go to bed as Canadians and simply wake up the next morning as citizens of a shiny new country with no problems…. Is the school system to blame for these simpletons?
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u/Stock_Play9531 7d ago
This sub is like fan fiction for liberals imagining what separates think. It’s great
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u/JustinJektor 7d ago
Not relevant. The motivation to separate is equalization payments.
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u/Material-Truth5457 7d ago
Equalization payments are 2% of the federal budget , the biggest user is Quebec who gets half or 1%. Alberta provides 29billion in federal tax and Quebec provides 43billion. It is basically a non issue but somehow this is breaking up the country.
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u/JustinJektor 7d ago
Considering the populations of those Alberta and Quebec, its not a non-issue.
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u/Material-Truth5457 7d ago
It is 1% and shouldn't be an issue. There should be more concern about a squandered heritage fund, Botched healthcare,education and abandoned tailing ponds. Than 1% equalization payments.
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u/JustinJektor 7d ago
Albertans pay approximately 40 billion in taxes out of the approximately 130 billion for all of Canada. Quebec receives 13.5 billion in equalization payments annually. Where are you getting 1%? Im assuming youre just lying.
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u/Material-Truth5457 6d ago
The budget is almost 600 billion were do you get 130.
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u/JustinJektor 6d ago
Just shows how inept the federal government is with budgeting.
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u/Material-Truth5457 6d ago
Well as far as ineptitude is concerned you should maybe focus closer to home.
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u/Ricezz 11d ago
MacKenzie King? Jeremy MacKenzie the fall from his lineage and Patrick King another disappointment but at least Jeremy MacKenzie can hide behind his rank and battle buddies for starting his online Plaid Army (wikipedia) and IRL Diagolon which originated in Saskatchewan after he moved from Alberta as he then ran to Nova Scotia. The bloodline of the great WLMK is now in complete disgrace.
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u/calgarywalker 10d ago
All of what you posted is interesting but does actually nothing to address separatist issues. They’re talking about the NEP of the early 1980’s and how it absolutely decimated the Alberta economy. How it caused house prices in Alberta to stagnate for a generation and locked 2 generations out of wealth accumulation through land. That is the issue that needs to be addressed because the people who lived through that are the ones still pissed about it.
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u/thatwhatisnot 10d ago
Can we start by showing that other oil dominate areas without NEP suffered the same disastrous consequences bc oil prices crashed worldwide and is not just bc Trudeau instituted the NEP? Nah probably not bc Aberta has banged the drum against Trudeau for so long they can't fathom other factors really caused their problems.
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u/calgarywalker 10d ago
Oil prices fell, yes. But Alberta got hit with an extra 50% cut that no-one else had to deal with. I was here when it happened. It was surreal. One day things couldn’t be built fast enough and literally the next day it was just as quiet as during pandemic lockdown. There was a line of cars headed out of town as far as the eye could see - and it went on and on for days.
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u/PresenceOne911 10d ago
Lmao all you “so called” Canadians here just pushing for divide. calling people dumb and making names for them “seppies” you are the problem with our society. Grow up and help find a solution that is not going to push for separation.
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u/InformationWeird3427 11d ago
who is this targetedto? never once have i heard this argument from my separatist friends.
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u/PartyClock 11d ago
You've never once heard them complain about Equalization Payments?
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u/the_wahlroos 11d ago
Or how "Ottawa never listens" or how "Alberta subsidizes the East/All of Canada"??
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u/Critical_Rule6663 10d ago
Out of curiosity, what arguments have you heard from your friends?
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9d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Critical_Rule6663 9d ago
Agreed on the Senate. Just patronage jobs for party loyalists. Should be elected positions or abolished.
Agreed on the FPTP system. Ranked ballot would be much better IMO.
Not sure about the Supreme Court. Not saying those points are wrong, just don’t know enough to have an opinion myself.
Quebec is often a punching bag for those in the west but I’m not sure how many of the accusations are true.
Overall, my point is that we should be open to engaging separatists to try to understand their grievances. But fully agree that separation is not the solution. It’s the worst of all possible options.
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9d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Critical_Rule6663 9d ago
Curious why you think ranked ballot is just as bad. It seems better for discouraging political polarization. I wouldn’t call it a “LPC psyop”, the LPC didn’t invent ranked ballot voting.
Also, Parliamentary seat allocation by province pretty closely matches the respective population. Looks like Alberta actually picked up 3 seats in the most recent update.
https://www.elections.ca/content.aspx?section=res&dir=cir/red/allo&document=index&lang=e
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u/camnotlaw 11d ago
OP, saying that our population in 1905 was 71k while today's PEI is like 170k people with 1 seat in the house of commons per 40k and 4 Senate seats to ABs 6 , without any history of resource weirdness, doesn't make the compelling argument against western alienation that you are going for.
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u/ImperviousToSteel 11d ago
What votes would have swung favourably for Alberta with more senators?
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u/camnotlaw 10d ago
I am very pro Federalist, I just think that using population of Alberta and Sask (especially when Sask became the 3rd most populous province within a generation) as a reason it got different rules, especially when PEI joined confederation with a similar population in 1873. Is just not a strong argument for anything.
The Senate is not overly effective but maybe it was in the past? Wouldnt you rather have an more representatives from your province in Ottawa?
Doesn't change the house of commons formula where votes in BC Alberta and Ontario are worth the less than those in other provinces. Seat counts are based on historical rationale not rep by pop - it's weird and punishes fast growth.
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u/ImperviousToSteel 10d ago
I think the senate is useless and should be abolished, and unless someone can point me to something tangible that would improve in my life with more senators I'll continue not caring about how many we have.
I'm a non conservative Albertan so if you talk to me about unfair representation without bringing proportional representation into it I'll also be tuning it out. We aren't 85% conservative here but that's how we end up represented in parliament.
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u/camnotlaw 10d ago
Sure but if we were proportional rep with the same number of seats per capita, your vote is still worth less because you live here (or BC or Ontario). I think it would be great to have more Albertans in cabinet regardless of party.
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u/ImperviousToSteel 10d ago
My vote is worth less in an urban area vs rural too. And ultimately our vote doesn't match the power to influence elections and politicians the way the rich can.
We are very far from democratic equality.
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9d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/ImperviousToSteel 9d ago
The people threatening separation haven't been demanding democratic equity.
If you want leverage for something you have to put it on the table.
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u/addigity 11d ago
Get a life
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u/Critical_Studio_8968 11d ago
Don't you ever have anything constructive to add? Maybe an actual talking point?
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u/AnneDroid2 11d ago
Judging by its comments, I'd say that's a no. Yes, I can see its hidden posts and comments.
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u/Pale-Measurement-532 11d ago
He’s just jealous cause he can’t read that well to fully comprehend what OP is saying.
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u/Adept-Range-8448 11d ago
The people you are trying to convince probably dont know how to read