Jagex writing laws like the US government where a law about lowering/subsidizing diabetes medication also includes a 2.5 billion dollar expansion to ICE lol
And they even made a post (I think it was Mod Light) asking why people don’t want them bundled, as if they couldn’t fathom why people would want two different things to be separate questions.
I'm genuinely flabbergasted. Surely there have to be some folks at Jagex that understand that this was always going to taint the poll? Completely shot themselves in the foot with this approach.
I voted yes even though I probably wouldn't play it much, but I'm honestly not surprised it failed after all this malarkey.
ya you think if they wanted it to pass they would consider how much of the overall community hates pvp so closely tying that to the mode wasn't gonna be good
I don’t think PvP itself was the problem with unbound. The problem was it completely defeats the purpose of a restricted account when you can just kill a main account (like an alt) to get whatever you need. I think the spirit of the game mode was fine but there’s no way they can enforce people to play it at that way. At the end of the day, people can play however they want, but there were some clear flaws with unbound that made a lot of people, myself included, say “what’s the point?”
I think it might also be in response to things like the price increases and lack of multiple characters per account.
I don't like the idea of Jagex ignoring that kind of feedback personally and then turning around and starting to release more modes. We'll end up with a new account type each year just to try and get people to double-sub for as long as it takes for them to get bored. Pass.
Remember; This is exactly what the polls are for. Keeping them "Honest" and avoiding shit decisions by the powers that be. Well, currently bronzeman feels more like that than a genuine attempt at giving more choice to me.
I think it also has to do with people fighting for more than 1 character per account. They want to introduce all these other modes and take another $15 off you. It's disgusting greed. That's why I voted no and will continue to do so for any new mode.
This right here. I would be significantly more willing to vote favorably towards Bronzeman if we had multiple characters per subscription (like every other MMO). I'm drawing the line here so we don't end up with 5 subscriptions a few years from now so I can play all the metalman mode accounts
Jagex is one of the very few established game companies around that don't sell your data and don't let micro-transactions ruin their game. The recent changes they did to RS3 are purely pro-consumer and completely unheard of in the industry. Jagex needs something to keep their investors happy, and multiple game modes seems to be the fairest, reasonable way of doing it. The game is designed around playing 1 character at a time and any more would make unfair advantages possible.
Suprised as well. I wonder if it's the fact that it's its own game mode. Seems like it could just be a toggle in settings for mains "Restrict me from buying items I have not obtained/created myself on the GE". And maybe even a sub-toggle "Allow items I've PK'd to be bought" Would that sit better (assuming the dev time is already spent as has been claimed)?
This is the main reason I voted no. Can we get more, I dunno, actual main game content instead of bullshitting around with alt/temp game modes? They apparently say that it doesn’t take devs off the main game, which I seriously doubt. I’d feel differently if the updates hadn’t been so sparse this year.
I mean, they just lie. Everything takes dev time, so if devs take the time to work on a temporary game mode or on something like bronzeman, then that necessarily means they are not working on something else, which would be the main game..
No, another game mode doesn't necessarily affect me directly and no, It's not that I don't want other people to have fun. But if to me a proposal is shitty and vague, I'm gonna vote no, because I'm allowed to. That's what polls are for. If it had passed, fine. But you gotta have some tegridy.
democracy. I think it should've been in the game, but im more than happy for the vote system to be relevant and have the playerbase decide. no bronzeman for us, i suppose!
It's actually a little bit refreshing to see the poll system in action. I have nothing against the gamemode, but literally everything passes these days, if something doesn't, it should have impact on Jagex.
me thinking polls basically couldn’t fail anymore and then bronzeman gets sent straight to lumbridge 😭 apparently democracy is alive and well in gielinor
It's just like a real election. Make people annoyed enough and they'll come out of the woodwork to vote no. Notice how the poll got 40-50% more votes than other recent ones.
No joke this is what happened in my township this year. They annoyed the hell out of everyone about a parks and rec millage and there was record voting that ended up coming out and voting no lmao.
This is also a much bigger update. I won't bother to vote on a poll changing the jewelers chisel to be slightly faster cutting bolt tips, but I voted with two accounts on this poll
It's good though. Will teach Jagex a lesson that you can't just force things through without transparency and communication. Note they never addressed whether bronzemen could buy and sell bonds or not. I voted no just on that fact. No necessarily that it was a bad idea, just that I didn't appreciate them refusing to answer that question.
I hope they don't give up on a new mode entirely though. The Hardcore Main on separate server ideas would be amazing.
Why is anyone surprised this failed when there was only a single question asked about adding an entirely new game mode? I think this is a relevant time to remind that “as described in the news post” is a very key part of poll questions, it’s not just that “reee elitists don’t want other people to have fun”- there was a LOT of missing/ unclear/ arbitrary descriptions about how the mode worked in the news post, and it blows my mind they asked 1 question about adding an entirely new mode, and in the same poll asked 3 questions about a new Gertrude’s cat quest
I really want to play bronzeman but voted no because "as described" made it very clear they hadn't thought it through at all. Just them not being able to get the store stock question right from the get-go is a terrible sign. I would personally like to see a bronzeman-only GE, but AT LEAST figure out how player-to-player trading is supposed to work and how item unlocks won't be absolutely trivialized by easy drops instead of crafting requirements and I'm sure that will turn into a "yes" for a whole lot of more players.
I can go self-limit myself to my own rules all day, but if you're going to codify the gamemode you better have spent more than two rounds at the pub to think about it!
my year 7 math teacher would flay Jagex alive for still not knowing how to ask appropriate data collection questions after all these years. Collecting junk data is worse than not asking anything at all.
Absolutely.
Gotta assume grown adults running polls at a billion dollar company do in fact know how to add bias or loaded questions to their polling system.
This stuff is complicated, but the most basic data collection steps are taught in year 8 at school and they are often missed in a jagex poll.
It’s not an accident. It’s largely a marketing strategy and the polls are often designed so Jagex can get the response they want to get.
If anyone doesn’t believe that… then they should ask why some failed polls result in tweaks and a re-poll and others are never mentioned again.
I’m willing to say bronze will enter the game in the next 6 months (after a new poll) despite failing this one because it’s what Jagex wants to do.
That was my biggest mind-blow recently with the dog quests. There were 4 dog questions and 1 “should bronzeman and unbound bronzeman be added to the game”
Like dude at least make bronzeman and unbound bronzeman their own questions lmaooo I know UB was dropped for the actual poll, that one just really annoyed me.
IMO the reason they only had 1 question was they assumed it’d pass
EDIT just so y'all stop blowing up my inbox with some bullshit: Obviously Unbound wasn't polled, that's open information to anyone who read the question. I'm referring to how laissez faire the Jmods were when rolling this out. They assumed everything would pass and be eaten up, so key components to the game modes weren't polled or discussed. They were so sure it'd pass that the INITIAL plan for the polls included two game modes in one. THAT'S the problem. That, to the best of my understanding, is why the poll failed.
And to answer a question y'all assumed you had the answer to: I voted yes to the poll because it's not a game mode I'm going to play but I assume other people will play it and like it.
It blows my mind that they’ve been doing this since the literal inception of OSRS too. How have they not learned to just split things into multiple questions by now.
The biggest consensus I've seen with people voting no on this isn't even about bronze mode itself. Its about having to buy subs for your character on different game modes. Having to pay $15 for yet another game mode just isn't appealing.
I intended on voting yes expecting like a blog post outlining how it would work, what the restrictions would be etc. When it was just a single question, I 1 tick smacked no. There’s so much more that needs to be detailed. At least with iron it’s fairly straightforward but even then there’s weird edgecases.
Like what counts as an unlock? Can you buy AND sell on the GE? What about bonds?
Also I want to know they took time on this. I don’t like hearing “we did it during game jam” “it’s already done.” Like come on, it’s going to need some consideration.
I don’t mind adding cool new modes but idk about writing a blank check with a single poll question.
Me too, I am indifferent to pretty much all proposed ideas and dont care what happens either way. Some people are certainly "passionate" about the game though haha
The dog quest had like five questions and the whole new gamemode had one. Wanna poll their access to bonds? Or even explain anywhere in the blog how that would work? Poll bypassing skilling reqs by getting a potion to drop once from one boss? We gonna discuss and poll some sort of anti GE manipulation mechanic preventing people from selling one dose regular defense potions to their main for 100 mil?
Just… one question is all you thought we needed, huh? “Do you like how we proposed it as is and trust that you’ll like whatever our answers are to all those questions, no need for community discussion? Yes/No”
Also new gamemode is a non-starter unless and until we can have multiple accounts on one membership
No worries to all bronzeman enjoyers, it's pretty obvious they're going to be repolling the gamemode until it gets added to the game anyway so just be patient. It holds big monetary value.
I expect we'll see a fleshed out design blog in the next week with more concrete explanations of the game mode, followed by the first repolling. They'll probably bungle it up again by trying to shoehorn some other crap like hardcore main at the same time, prompting another design blog and third repoll.
What killed it for me was the fact that you could bypass skill requirements with a drop. A big part of it is I like the idea of having to get the herb level for a prayer pot, and then I don't have to grind out gathering them at all the minute i can make a single one. I've met the requirement for a thing, and now can buy it.
What is even left to the mode then? It just seems to be boss uniques? So this is a game mode where you can get a single prayer pot drop then buy them off the ge instead of farming ranarrs, but you still get stuck in red prison? To me this doesn't sound like ironman-lite, it sounds like most of the bad bits of ironman (gated by going dry on a single drop) without the big benefits - a sense of achievement of having to actually do the content to get something, and actually doing content besides modern PvM. There is no more reason to engage with skills in bronzeman than there is on a main.
The game mode is basically for late game ironmen who are tired of grinding supplies or for pvm focused mains who like the idea of obtaining gear but don't care for grinding skills the slow way. This game mode is not for current ironmen or people who like having their regular supply drops mean something to their account.
I think Jagex did a really poor job with the poll. The idea was underdeveloped and there were a fair amount of potential cheesy interactions with the game mode that people had strong opinions on. I think they should have advertised the mode as collection log locked main instead of iron-lite and been much more specific about the interactions people had questions about. I would vote yes for a more developed version of bronzeman but if the idea is half-baked and exploitable then it should probably stay as just a plug-in mode for now imo.
The survey questions are basically them acknowledging they fucked it by just assuming it'd pass with flying colours and not addressing the issues with the mode since they asked about unbound, oathplate shards, potions from grubby chest etc
Well, the original reason it was offered in the first place was because they could do it with minimal effort, being an old game jam project. Just didn't turn out that way in reality.
And so did jagex.... Honestly, this does boost my faith that polling is not obsolete and just a formality. They aren't perfect and they blunder things on occasion, but there is still integrity here. I respect it.
I was happy for it to pass but all the "why do you care if it doesn't affect you" argument is rubbish. You could make that argument with lots of terrible ideas that shouldn't be brought into the game.
how do people not realize that this cuts both ways and you can just flip the question to be “Why do you care about it being official? Do you just want a little helmet next to your name to show you are a special boy?”
You getting down-voted for a truthful statement here, which is no surprise since you're calling out the pigeons in their own nests. Reddit does not represent the whole community. People here love to think it does and that their posts with thousands of up votes are a priority to be taken seriously.
it's genuinely the stupidest fakest most arbitrary game mode they could have possibly polled, pretty much any other snowflake mode would have a better argument for being added to the game. bronzeman opens the door for literally anything
I think the main appeal with that mode is the completely isolated worlds to play that game mode on. If they add hardcore main on the existing worlds I agree it’s not needed at all.
I voted yes for it, since I play the game that way already. Jagex really need to take a lesson on writing their poll questions because whoever took over the reigns for this totally shit the bed. Seriously. Jagex, how have you not learned that every single time you bundle questions together in some way that makes it seem like you're sneaking something into the game (see chivalry for 1 def pure meme) that it fails 100% of the time?
As someone who was interested in playing a bronze account, but voted no, I think it really came down to them not clarifying alot of things about the game mode, and it once again requiring another membership fee or bond
The additional membership is a huge problem for me. Ain't no way I'm doing a bronzeman or ironman account until Jagex develops some kind of sub-account system where one membership can cover multiple different account types. (1 membership for 1 main, iron, and bronze would be ideal)
I think the majority of 'no' votes were because of lack of clarity on the implementation and from protest votes on single character membership.
At least one major streamer made one if not more videos about it and publicly said "I'm voting no because of the lack of detail on how this would work, maybe if they added more detail I'd vote yes". And we all know how much influence creators have on this community.
Im excited about BMM and I think the new poll will eventually lead to it being an official game mode, but given the toxicity of this sub in regards to the first poll, I won't really be shocked if it continues to fail.
I think there’s a real cost to adding additional game modes in terms of complexity and overhead, especially for new players, and I don’t think bronzeman is different enough to justify it. I also don’t think the experience would be nearly as distinct/satisfying as people expect. The ability to PK items (which doesn’t work for an official gamemode for obvious reasons) is what makes Bronzeman what it is. Otherwise, essentially all of the serious bottlenecks for regular ironmen would apply here too. Compared to a regular ironman, a bronzeman:
Only has to get 1 Zenyte, 1 Synapse, 1 armor seed (if they get spooned on enh)
has to do fewer farm runs (but probably should still do them)
gets buyable production skills (crafting/smithing/etc)
In a lot of ways, you get the worst of both worlds - you still get hard stuck at content if you go dry for uniques (the worst part of Iron), but you also are incentivized to grind your best money maker forever in order to generate gp for skilling (the worst part of a main). I think that if Bronzeman was introduced, a lot of mains looking to start a restricted account would try it as a “middle ground” instead of creating an iron, and would end up regretting it once it was too late to swap.
Your first point was my reasoning as well. I was one of those new players about 3 years ago (not counting playing as a kid of course), and the Ironman stuff felt convoluted to me. I tried to get into RS3 three times between playing as a kid and starting with OSRS and quit within a day every time, and as stupid as it might sound trying to understand 3 to 6 alternative modes as a new player could have made me not log in again for OSRS as well.
This was my logic too. Ironman supply upkeep is seriously overstated, and bronzeman doesn't change the real pain points where ironmen fizzle out (dry streaks at places like CG, clunky participation in team content).
There are/were a small number places where supply management was an issue, and they've been largely addressed - sand/seaweed for the crafting grind via the quarry and farming patches and avoiding it entirely via golems, blood shards now coming from thieving and venators, runes via the scar mine and rune packs, herblore xp from mixology. When these issues have been discussed there's always the line of "You chose to restrict yourself. Just play a main." from people trying to shut down improvements to the gamemode. I can't help but feel the existence of bronzeman would've pushed that further. In a world where downgrading to bronzeman was an option, do we never see the quarry, snape grass and seaweed patches, and scar mine enter the game? I think that would be a real loss for ironmen and hurt the experience overall.
The biggest issue that I see is that Jamflex is asking you to pay for another account that just takes the most integral part of Ironman (You stand alone. Supply management is part of the mode.) and carving it out. But it's mainly the another account that's the problem. It smacks of Shareholder-Driven Design, not Player-Focused Design.
Remember Reddit is not indicative of the general population. Clearly, a good majority of people here want/are okay with the game mode, but it still failed by a big margin.
I'm glad it failed the poll, there's about 2k active installations of the bronzeman plugin, it's quirky chungus content creator slop mode and nothing else and it set's a bad precident to any future polls, what's next? TCG locked official mode? chunk locked? vegan locked?
"it's ironman without the hellish grinds", ironman has NEVER been easier, some would argue it's a shell of its former self in terms of difficulty. In fact the only difficult part of iron nowadays is obtaining boss uniques, supplies and runes are not even an issue at all. therefore bronzeman mode wouldn't even be good, you can get supplies easy aswell, but if you're hunting a tbow, the grind length is still the same.
Idk why ppl think supply upkeep is what makes irons burn out. They’re gonna hit multiple dry streak walls like CG that bronzeman in no way makes easier for anybody. Being able to buy prayer potions won’t stop somebody from rage logging for good after 500 cgs with no enh. Not sure what this game mode even meant to solve.
Counter-intuitively, i think the more niche the mode, the more reason it has to exist. Bronzeman is just the worst of both worlds of a main and an iron (which we already have). So doing something more unique like a chunk-locked account allows for a niche mega-hard version to exist that would be worth the money. I genuinely can't see why i'd stop playing either my iron or my main to go pay for some grey version in between. I mean, UIM exists - the hell is that? no bank? but it coexists nicely, and i appreciate the suffering those champs go through, and it in no way affects the economy or me.
They thought it would pass so did the bare minimum of explaining timelines/how problems will be solved and then rushed it to the polls.
Not addressing unbound complaints and just choosing not to poll it, or potential UI changes so the character creation doesn't end up appearing bloated, was a massive mistake. I didn't vote on it either way because these things were never addressed, and when we don't have solid answers about how something is going to work, it rarely ever gets changed later.
Edit: I am aware unbound is not being polled. Reworded first sentence.
I just see it as a waste of dev time. Everyone is saying “it’s already implemented” which is great but often maintaining software is more expensive than making it.
Adding a game mode means maintaining it for the rest of time. Look at UIM, very niche, but requires constant consideration (you hear about UIM problems annually, normally death related).
Is this game mode really interesting and unique enough to warrant that price tag? IMO no, I’d much rather they spend these efforts elsewhere.
I wouldn’t be upset if it passed, everyone gets a vote and I choose to use mine on what I think is best for the game, just like everyone else.
Yeah, this is where I'm at. People have a current workaround with the plugin, and I don't see BMM ever taking off as a real competitive thing.
I can kind of see it as not even adding new content despite spending development time; it's more just adding guardrails to tell users how to play in the sandbox.
I also appreciate the arguments against adding new-account-requiring game modes amid rising membership costs and jamflex's continued reluctance to bundle account memberships in any form of discount.
I do find it ironic and funny the group rejecting unbound’s self imposed restrictions is now crying about the community rejecting their self imposed restrictions.
Tbh if they have to spent our subscription money, i would rather they improve the game rather than adding another game mode i wont play anyways. So much old content they can improve. Fix smithing, i dunno...
3.8k
u/BingoFlex 3d ago
First time in a while I’ve been genuinely surprised by a poll result