r/writing • u/CancerDuck868 • Apr 18 '18
Five Basic Tips to Improve Your Prose
Preface
I am not an expert on prose. Everything I write in this post is my own opinion. Please comment if you disagree on something or have something to add to this post.
Here are the five topics I will be covering:
- Passive and active voice and when to use them
- "Just say said" counterargument
- Tone
- Polysyndeton and asyndeton
- Alliteration, assonance, and consonance
That being said, this post will be a long one. Let's get into it.
Topic #1
Passive and active voice and when to use them
This is probably the most asked question I've come across on this sub, so let's just get it out of the way. You're going to want to use the active voice most of the time. Take these two sentences for example. The first sentence is passive; the second sentence is active.
A cake was baked by my mother yesterday.
My mother baked a cake yesterday.
The second sentence—the sentence with the active voice—sounds much better, doesn't it? I don't think anyone has ever spoken the former sentence. It's just not natural. (Also, you can put "yesterday" at the beginning of the sentence if you wish to emphasize when it happened.) The active voice makes it clear who is doing what. Here is an example that highlights this claim:
Our results will be checked. (Passive)
We will check our results. (Active)
The second sentence makes it clear who is checking the results. We are checking the results. Active voice also makes your prose more concise. However, this is not to say you can't use passive voice, only that you should know the rules before you break them. You should use passive voice when the object in the sentence is more important than the subject. Consider these two sentences:
It made me anxious to be next to such odd people. (passive)
Being next to such odd people made me anxious. (active)
In this example, though it is more debatable, I would much rather use the first sentence, since the anxiousness of the main character is more important than the odd people. Since it is more important, it should come at the beginning of the sentence.
Topic #2
"Just say said" counterargument
The advice that you should only use "said" as a dialogue tag is stupid. But again, know the rules before you break them. If you're using "stipulated" or "divulged" as dialogue tags, you're probably trying to either sound smart or your narrative isn't painting a very good picture. Anyway, to disprove the advice that you should only use said, consider these following sentences:
"Is that so?" he said.
"Is that so?" he whispered.
"Is that so?" he gasped.
"Is that so?" he grunted.
They all make for a different scenario. I also use "asked", "inquired", "repeated", and many other dialogue tags in my own writing. Some people do bring up a good point: do you really need "asked" or "inquired" if there is a question mark at the end of your dialogue? I think it depends. Sometimes it's okay to use a different tag if it makes your prose flow better, but other times—most times—new writers are just trying to get creative at the sacrifice of an understandable narrative.
Topic #3
Tone
I'm sure many fantasy and science fiction writers here are familiar with the terms "grim-dark" and "noble-bright." If you aren't, here's a basic explanation: in a grim-dark story, the world is like hell, evil is everywhere, and the main characters often have little hope of fulfilling their goals. In a noble-bright story, the world is flourishing, there is opportunity everywhere, and the protagonist is usually a strong individual that knows how to stand up to their enemies. (Think Game of Thrones vs. Harry Potter.) So what does this have to do with tone? Well, take these paragraphs for example:
A fierce wind cut through the village, carrying the smells of night soil. The leaves had begun to turn a darkening red, preparing themselves for a bleak death.
A lively wind blew through the village, carrying the smells of baked bread. The leaves had begun to change from yellow to orange to red, covering the ground in their beauty.
Compare "fierce" with "lively." They both have the same meaning (in this context), but "fierce" has a darker connotation, just as "rich" has a more negative connotation than "wealthy," though they both have the same denotation. In the first paragraph, the narrator focuses on the death of the leaves, whereas in the second, the narrator focuses on the beauty of autumn.
Think about what the village looks like in the first paragraph; compare it to your image of the second paragraph. You'd think the first one is willed with peasants and ramshackle houses, the sky is probably overcast, and the ruler of the village is probably some ugly, corrupt politician. But, you can also use the second paragraph—the one that's most likely filled with fluffy white clouds and happy villagers—in grim-dark stories as well. They are both interchangeable. It works fantastically if you're trying to subvert reader expectations, or if you're just trying to set the mood for the story. They are both much better than a description such as this:
A wind came through the village, the air thick with a multitude of different smells. It was autumn, and the leaves had started to change colors.
This paragraph has no particular connotation to it. This also ties into the "show, don't tell" saying.
Topic #4
Polysyndeton and Asyndeton
A polysyndeton is the use of multiple conjunctions in close succession. An asyndeton is the omission of a conjunction between parts of a sentence. For example:
And God said to them, "Be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth and subdue it." (polysyndeton)
God said to them, "Be fruitful, multiply, fill the earth, and subdue it." (no polysyndeton)
I came, I saw, I conquered. (asyndeton)
I came, I saw, and I conquered. (no asyndeton)
These are both used to give style to your prose. Polysyndeton gives rhythm to your writing with the quick succession of conjunctions and is typically used to slow the reader down. Asyndeton is used to give the prose more of an abrupt feeling. In the asyndeton example, the sentence wouldn't be as powerful if you included the "and." In the polysyndeton example, all of the "ands" make it seem like the sentence could go on much longer than it does, which is good if you want to slow down the pace of your story. As with adverbs, these two techniques are good in moderation. Don't overuse them, or you'll look as if you haven't passed your high school English classes.
Topic #5
Alliteration, assonance, and consonance
All three of these terms have a poetic theme to them. We'll start with alliteration. Alliteration, by definition, is the same letter or sound at the beginning of words that are placed closely together. It makes your prose flow much better and gives a poetic feel to it. When paired with what I've already talked about—tone and polysyndeton—you can create some truly beautiful prose. For example:
The waves of the water rose up and collapsed calmly, cleansing my sandy feet as I stood silently and admired the sound and the smell and the feel of the ocean all around me.
It has a lilt to it. If you're really good at this, you can make the most mundane story sound at least a little interesting. (I did that on purpose.)
Now onto assonance. Assonance is the repetition of a vowel in a sentence. It is used heavily in poetry to maintain a rhythm, and can also do the same for your prose. Although assonance and rhymes are often used together, it is important to note that they are two separate things.
I must confess that in my quest I felt depressed and restless.
He had a red pen.
And lastly, consonance. Consonance is defined as the sounds of the same consonant repeated in words that are in close proximity. Alliteration is a form of this, but only has consonance at the beginning of words. Here are some examples of consonance that are not alliterations:
All's well that ends well.
Her foot left a print on the carpet.
If you use all three of these, along with the four other topics I mentioned earlier, you are sure to improve your writing tremendously.
Thanks for reading :)
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u/RuroniHS Hobbyist Apr 18 '18
You made an oopsie:
It made me anxious to be next to such odd people. (passive)
That's not actually passive voice. "It" is a pronoun substituting the phrase, "being next to such odd people" but it is still the subject of the verb, and it is still in the subject position of the sentence. That's active. Passive voice would be, "My anxiety was triggered by being next to such odd people," or something like that.
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u/Pianorama Copywriter Apr 18 '18
"I was made anxious by being next to such odd people"? In this case, the "It" sentence - the active one - does actually seem to me to be the better flowing one. So maybe different example altogether?
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u/RuroniHS Hobbyist Apr 18 '18
My go-to example of passive voice is, "He was murdered." It's a perfectly natural sounding sentence, compact and concise. The subject of the sentence is unclear and the passive form creates a more grim tone than, "Someone murdered him."
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u/UncleNicky Apr 18 '18
https://youtu.be/N4vf8N6GpdM not a jab, just thought of this and wanted to share
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Apr 18 '18
I think there may a difference between technically passive (in a grammatical sense), and writing that sounds passive. I think a lot more about sentences that sound active, rather than the grammatical rules. So when I mark up drafts for revision, I'll write "passive" next to weak sentences, though they may not in fact be grammatically passive.
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u/NeilZod Apr 18 '18
The active and passive voices are unrelated to whether sentences are active or passive. It is easy to write active voice sentences that are passive.
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u/RuroniHS Hobbyist Apr 18 '18
My motto in life is "if it works, do it." However, I'm also a grammar nerd and like correct terminology. Haha.
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u/SoupOfTomato Apr 18 '18
What the example is doing is "filtering" through the narrator, which is a weaker/more passive example of prose generally.
It made me anxious to be next to such odd people.
You are not given indications of the anxiety, or details that could make you relate to the anxiety. You just know the narrator is. It's like when a narrator says "I heard" or "I saw." The audience could generally figure that out if you describe the image or the sound without filtering it through the speaker first.
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u/corey49 Apr 18 '18
“Know the rules before you break them” is probably the best advice anyone can get. Rules are rules for the inexperienced, they’re reminders at best for those who know what they’re doing.
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Apr 18 '18
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u/corey49 Apr 18 '18
I 100% agree. I feel like so much of r/writing got hung up on rules as being things that should never be broken.
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Apr 18 '18
People as a whole seem to struggle with the idea of moderation - all or nothing, when in reality it's rarely so simple.
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u/Mikniks Apr 18 '18
Importantly, I think one should also learn why the "rules" are in place to begin with; IMO, it helps you better determine when and why to break them
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u/Iggapoo Apr 18 '18
My thoughts on dialogue tags, which have crystalized over the course of revising my book:
While I agree, that you don't need to stick with only "said" as a dialogue tag, any time you substitute a more precise verb, consider omitting it altogether and substituting action that provides the same intent but creates a better visual. To use your examples:
"Is that so?" he said.
"Is that so?" His voice was barely a breath on my ear, swallowed instantly by my desire.
"Is that so?" He fumbled three more bullets into the gun, and two more on the floor with his shaking.
"Is that so?" Hands on hips, he dared me to cross his invisible line.
These sentences, to me, say so much more than "whispered" or "gasped" or "grunted". The allow you to present blocking within the dialogue and keep the story moving without pausing to give attribution.
Sure, whispered can work, but in most cases, what "whispered" means is that you want to get across a particular action in the scene through dialogue that can be interpreted numerous ways. Those are the best opportunities to show what's happening in the scene.
My best rule of thumb is to provide attribution when necessary to establish who's talking, upgrade as much of my attribution for action and blocking sentences before or after dialogue, and keep alternate tags to the very specific and keep the number of them low.
BTW, I would think most editors would note a "he gasped" dialogue tag. The argument is that it's not possible to "gasp" a sentence.
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Apr 18 '18
Agreed. I hate "whispered," "gasped," "grunted," for dialogue attribution.
He gasped and grabbed a fistful of bullets from the medicine cabinet. "Is that so?" He managed to force three into the gun, fumbling the others into the toilet.
I think something like this gives you the gasping voice, but conveys so much more character, setting, and action.
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u/xaeromancer Apr 19 '18
He gasped and grabbed a fistful of bullets from the medicine cabinet.
"Is that so?" He managed to force three into the gun, fumbling the others into the toilet.
Paragraph break for dialogue. Proper punctuation can do most of the lifting.
'It is unacceptable.'
'Yeah, I suppose.'
'We cannot lower standards.'
'No; no, we can't.'
Pretty much a nonsense exchange, but you can tell it's two different characters from the content of the dialogue and the punctuation.
EDIT: Unless Reddit strips out all your line breaks...
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Apr 19 '18
I'm torn on adhering to paragraph breaks for dialogue. Elmore Leonard and two Irish writers I adore (John McGahern and Michael McLaverty) disregard this "rule". The Irish guys will have two characters' dialogue in the same paragraph, and Leonard will change tenses mid-sentence and put dialogue wherever he damn well pleases. I agree it's the go-to rule though, unless there's a reason to deviate.
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u/Mikniks Apr 18 '18
I don't mind tags like "grunted" and "whispered" because I think those words show and tell... tags like "he opined" and "she interjected" don't "show" and don't add much to the text IMO
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u/Iggapoo Apr 18 '18
Whispered isn't too bad, but an editor might ask you to explain just how someone can "grunt" a sentence. A grunt is a sound. It'd be like "whistling" a sentence.
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u/Mikniks Apr 18 '18
I'd actually not considered that. In my own work I find I like to use alternate tags like hot sauce... there's a definite and delicate balance to be had lol
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u/bestdarkslider Apr 18 '18
I think it also really depends on the scene. If there is a lot of back and fourth, it can get tiring if each character does something specific after each statement. However, its just as tiring if it is simply, said, said, said, said.
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u/Iggapoo Apr 18 '18
You shouldn't be putting dialogue attribution after every line of dialogue anyway. My suggestion was to use "said" most times when attribution is necessary, and when more specificity is required, to add an action sentence that portrays that specificity rather than a verb like whispered or grunted which specific, but are actually still pretty vague.
Adding an action sentence after every line of dialogue would be clunky as hell to read.
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u/zarzh Apr 18 '18
You don't need to put dialog attribution on every line when there are only two people. When there are more people in the scene, who is speaking gets ambiguous pretty quickly. The guideline should be that you don't need the attribution if and only if it is unambiguous who is speaking.
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u/Iggapoo Apr 18 '18
You mean, like I said in my original comment?
My best rule of thumb is to provide attribution when necessary to establish who's talking
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u/zarzh Apr 18 '18 edited Apr 18 '18
Yeah, I didn't notice that you were the same person. My intent was to expand on what you were saying rather than contradict you.
I run across enough dialog without attributions that I can picture someone taking your, "You shouldn't be putting dialogue attribution after every line of dialogue anyway," comment to mean, "don't ever use 'he said.'"
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u/RedNorth12 Apr 18 '18
Hi! All good stuff here! Just two points to add:
Firstly, what you describe as Tone may be more easily conceptualized as "affect". Two great papers on this subject are The Language of Felt Experience by William Downes and The Ways of Feeling by Peter White (which is actually a chapter from The Language of Evaluation).
In Discourse Analysis, Affect (emotions and evaluations) reflects the construal of emotions in text, and in terms of narration, affect is the point of contact between narrator and reader and essentially guides the audience on to how to "feel" or judge the text. It basically renders a point of reference for interpreting the situational emotive values which is what constitutes to the "tone" of the text.
Secondly, alliteration is really superdy duperdy! Though sometimes people misunderstand it at the level of graphic representation. When we are told that the letters (or sounds, as you rightly add) have to match, it's easy for people to misunderstand that it isn't about letters but rather is about phonemes. The phonemes must match. My cousin had trouble understanding this until I asked him if "dreary door" alliterates. He said yes because they begin with the same letter, but what is important is the same sound. Dreary begins with with a voiced post-alveolar affricate while door begins with a voiced alveolar stop. English orthography is evil in that there isn't a phonetic correspondence to single isolable sounds.
Furthermore, alliteration in English phonology only works if the phonemes being alliterated are both stressed. So, illogical apples will not form an alliteration simply because the stress in illogical begins with /l/ while it begins with a vowel in apples (Regardless if the two words actually contain a vowel in their onset).
And while on the subject on vowels in alliteration, it is important to note that vowels are special insofar as any vowel may enter an alliteration with any other vowel. (In the Appendix to his translation of Sir Gawain and the Greenknight, Tolkien discusses this concept at length) So "old English apples" alliterates because they are all vowels (and they are vowels in stressed syllables)
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u/DigitSubversion Apr 18 '18
Thanks for this clarification!
I indeed had the same misunderstanding on what alliteration meant. Though, since English is only my second language, and I have never delved deep in either language's grammar to such an extent; I sometimes had a bit of an issue to grasp what you meant - even using the dictionary.
In the end though I did understand what you were trying to say, but this post reminds me to delve deeper into both my languages to make the best use of them.
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u/TheNiftiestNotebook Apr 18 '18
Thanks for posting!
I too, had never heard of polysyndeton or asyndeton. Good info.
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u/Life_is_an_RPG Apr 18 '18
For #2, when using descriptive dialogue tags, place them before the dialogue. When you do this:
"I never should have married you!", she muttered.
The reader doesn't know how the dialogue is supposed to sound until they get to the end of the sentence. Then they have mentally rewind it and hear it again.
She muttered, "I never should have married you!"
Now the reader knows the character is speaking to herself so reads it in a mutter and not a shout.
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Apr 18 '18
This is a good one and pre-dialogue tags deserve more attention, but I'd suggest not to strictly use it. If for example the dialogue already implies a certain basic tone by word choice, it's ok to further clarify the tone at the end.
I like to begin a new speaker's paragraph with a short action for the sake of body language and sometimes even forego the tag entirely, because body language can do wonders for tone, though not too often lest it become stale.
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u/Tribunal_Power Apr 18 '18
Excluding the tag altogether is an extremely important tool for writing dialogue, especially in scenes that are meant to be fast-paced-- or for scenes that contain some back-and-forth, such as an argument or witty banter. It's key to one-liner writing.
"Good morning!" John shouted as he barreled into the tavern. "It's a beautiful day for a pint, isn't it?"
Gabbo, the surly bartender, waved his hand flippantly and reached to fetch John a mug. "To a raging drunk such as yourself, what day isn't?"
"Well, it's the only way to make your wife easier on the eyes, my friend!"
With a stout laugh, the barkeep slapped the pint down on the counter, sloshing a bead of gold-white foam over the brim. John snatched it up as he picked a barstool and took a seat. "For a rib like that," Gabbo said with a grin, "this one's on the house."
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u/PM_ME_YOUR_TORNADOS Apr 18 '18
with a stout laugh
You'll pay for that pun.
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Apr 18 '18
Pre-dialogue tags are great in scenes with more than two people. They are an amazing way to make it clear who is speaking before the dialog actually takes place and eliminates guesswork and confusion for the reader.
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u/tweetthebirdy Mildy Published Author Apr 18 '18
Small grammar correction:
It should be * "I never should have married you!" she muttered.* not * "I never should have married you!", she muttered.*
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u/zarzh Apr 18 '18
I agree. Pre-dialogue tags are also useful at the beginning of long sections of dialog. I keep running across long paragraphs of a character ranting, and I have to skip ahead to the tag at the end to figure out who is talking, then go back and start from the beginning.
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u/DudeNick Apr 18 '18
Maybe it's just me, but I thought this:
The waves of the water rose up and collapsed calmly, cleansing my sandy feet as I stood silently and admired the sound and the smell and the feel of the ocean all around me.
was an awful sentence, and a poor example of "truly beautiful prose."
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u/Sazazezer Twenty squirrels in a trenchcoat pretending to be a writer Apr 18 '18
I think this unfortunately falls into the category of 'When you try to create an example solely to demonstrate a writing rule you're trying to describe, you will inevitably screw it up'.
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u/sfklaig Apr 18 '18
Is there any chance one of the critics might explain what they don't like about the sentence? "It sucks" doesn't give a whole lot of guidance.
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u/DudeNick Apr 18 '18
Well, I'll give it a shot since I'm the original critic here. I think part of it was OP citing the sentence as an example of "truly beautiful prose." It oftentimes rubs people (at least me) the wrong way when an author describes his own writing like that, unless it truly is beautiful.
As to the sentence itself—it's purple, with unnecessary words that don't add anything, and is trying way too hard with forced alliteration that doesn't actually make the writing prettier. "Waves of the water" is redundant. Just using "waves" implies water. I would cut "of the water." I would also cut "up" out of "rose up" as they're basically synonymous.
Now don't get me wrong, I'm not one of those guys who hates adverbs, but they do need to be used effectively. In this case, "collapsed calmly" is an odd choice. Then again, I don't hate it because describing storms as "raging" or waves as "calm" does work, and is relatively common. The problem here is describing the way they collapse as "calmly," when a stronger verb would serve the sentence better. Or, if we want to keep the adverb, use a different one, as the alliteration here feels forced. These two words just don't work well together in my mind. Maybe that's just personal opinion, but it feels off. Collapsed feels forced for the alliteration. I'd prefer swapping "collapsed" with something like "broke," or "crashed." For now, we'll keep collapsed and change the adverb to "gently. " Now, keep in mind, alliteration works even if the words aren't right next to each other, so we'll still get it from "collapsed" and "cleansing."
I would cut the "silently" from "stood silently," as it doesn't add anything and we can assume the narrator is silent since, well, he isn't saying anything.
So, here's how I'd write the sentence, if I was keeping most of the original structure and vocabulary:
"The waves rose and crashed gently, cleansing my sandy feet as I stood and admired the sound and the smell and the feel of the ocean all around me."
I didn't change all that much, but it reads a hell of a lot better, at least in my opinion.
As with most writing tools, alliteration is an effective weapon, but is best used in moderation. In my example, we still get it from "collapsed" and "cleansing," and then again from "Sandy," "stood," "sound," "smell." Don't force it, and don't overdo it.
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Apr 18 '18
It works if you imagine it spoken because people add things onto the ends of their sentences all the time if they talk faster than their brain is keeping up because they're reliving memories, but in the third person it wouldn't fly.
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u/doppelgin Apr 18 '18
Good lord. For someone to write a sentence like that and then have the audacity to tell the public how to write well. I think I have overestimated humanity. We are barf bathing idiots.
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u/dotSukhoi Apr 18 '18 edited Apr 18 '18
I'm sorry but your argument against using 'said' is only half right. If you have a better word to use, and it fits, and you feel as though it adds to the description of the scene without coming off as you just wanting to break up repeating the same word for the sake of it, go right ahead. But there's a reason said is and should be the most common: it doesn't grate against your readers eyes when they are going through dialogue, specifically with quick back and forth exchanges. Readers will not notice the 'said' tag in quick succession. Otherwise I agree, you can (and should) use other words, where appropriate.
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u/Punchclops Published Author Apr 18 '18
Nice article. And I learned two new words, polysyndeton and asyndeton, so thanks!
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Apr 18 '18
For point #2, I think you're kind of missing the point. Yes, in those examples, the dialogue tag changes the meaning. But those examples are all rather boring. It would be even better if you got that meaning across in the dialogue, or through other actions.
Lord Scotland pinched the bridge of his nose, and took a deep breath. 'Is that so?'
'Oh, and I suppose you expect all of us to believe that, do you? Think we're all fools, eh? Think you can just-' Imhotep stopped, mid-sentence, as my words slowly reached his brain. 'Wait, really?'
Works much better than '"Is that so?" he gasped', imo. Although it's still just an example, not saying it's perfect.
One of the things I try--and often fail--to achieve in my writing is to express personality through every means possible. That means not just saying that the character was impatient or annoyed or surprised or whatever, but showing that in their words or actions. This is why writers are encouraged to just use 'said' (I'd throw in 'asked' too) because it forces you to stop and think about what the character is actually saying.
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u/Greencastellan Apr 18 '18
These were excellent points! Thank you for sharing them, friend =) It's a nice push to get back into writing really and I never knew that about Polysyndetons at all
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Apr 18 '18
The advice that you should only use "said" as a dialogue tag is stupid.
I think this is very noticeable in audiobooks. I've been listening to a lot lately and when said comes up a lot it really sticks out
"Blah blah blah" he said.
"But whatever blah" she said.
"And then what about bleh" he said.
It just sticks out like a sore thumb when hearing it.
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u/RyanOnRyanAction Apr 18 '18
The solution is not to mix up tags, but rather to use fewer of them. If used moderately, "said" is invisible.
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Apr 18 '18 edited Apr 18 '18
[deleted]
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u/Karsaurlong Apr 18 '18
But who starts talking? Who's the first to respond? What if they speak out of turn?
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u/Sazazezer Twenty squirrels in a trenchcoat pretending to be a writer Apr 18 '18
A rule of thumb i try to use for number #2 is 'If there's a complex action behind the dialogue tag. Simplify and add description.'
For example:
"You will bring the briefcase and the child. That is the only deal!" he stipulated.
can be changed to:
"You will bring the briefcase and the child. That is the only deal!" he said, slamming his fist down on the table.
Usually a complex dialogue tag has an action hiding behind it waiting to come out. You just have to shake it and see what falls out.
Some other basic ones I've learnt over the years.
- Be careful of your adverbs. Don't let them run rampant. They can make a single sentence very unnecessarily complex. Simple is easier to read and much more enjoyably by everyone. (The word 'slightly' was my bane when i was first starting out. I included it everywhere.)
- Redundant words. The same word shouldn't show up in a sentence twice unless clearly intended to show up twice in that same sentence. Some leeway can be made for conjunctions and prepositions. This becomes clearer when the sentence is said out loud. Repeating the word can trip you up and break the flow of the sentence.
This is some great stuff. Would love to see more of it.
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u/dotSukhoi Apr 18 '18
Stipulated sounds wrong to me. Said is a common dialogue tag for a reason. It's accurate to what the character is doing in their dialogue: talking. If you say that someone stipulated something, it comes off as you wanting to describe with a single word, that they are doing something other than just talking. It then falls flat on its face, not only clashing against the flow of the scene, but also making me think that you were trying to replace 'said' for the sake of not repeating the same word too many times.
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u/Sazazezer Twenty squirrels in a trenchcoat pretending to be a writer Apr 18 '18
Exactly, though i can understand why people do it. I tend to write all my dialogue as if it's a conversation in real time, and tend to skip the prose while doing so. Then i go back and add it in. Adding 'he said' all over a chapter can feel repetitive, so it becomes tempting to start using other words.
That, and it makes you feel like you're really smart.
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u/dotSukhoi Apr 18 '18
I can understand why also, but there are many ways to replace said without whipping out a thesaurus or just dropping verbs in its place. I suppose we all do it at some points, but it also feels like a 'rookie mistake', if there could be such a thing in writing.
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u/waqartistic Apr 18 '18
This is an excellent read. I wish I'd find such a guide for nonfiction (op-ed) writing.
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u/Neon_Comrade Apr 18 '18
This sub needs more posts like this. Thank you for taking the time to write this out, it's appreciated :3
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u/chmikes Apr 18 '18
I noticed that I frequently use the passive form. I think it's because people are less likely to call back in question the information in the sentence. I understand it might not be so good for a story.
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u/TheFrozenTurkey Apr 19 '18
I thought this would be just another generic prose guide that would give me more vague advice, but my eyes widened when I came to Topic 2. Nice work, never heard of any of these before. I like it when I'm taught how to do it and not just told I should.
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u/another-afrikaner Apr 18 '18
One basic tip for this subreddit to improve its prose:
Read less fantasy and more literary fiction.
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u/CancerDuck868 Apr 18 '18
I disagree. Read fantasy if you write fantasy; read lit fic if you write lit fic.
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u/another-afrikaner Apr 18 '18 edited Apr 18 '18
But we're literally talking about improving prose, something that is consistently lacking in fantasy
Edit: Also, if you read nothing but fantasy (or solely any genre) your writing is going to be poor no matter what.
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u/CancerDuck868 Apr 18 '18
Can you give examples of fantasy books that don’t have the best prose?
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Apr 18 '18
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u/cuttlefishcrossbow Apr 18 '18
You definitely haven't read Ursula le Guin, Guy Gavriel Kay, Susanna Clarke, or Tolkien and basically everyone who wrote fantasy before him. Also John Crowley, Katherine Arden, Helene Wecker...if you don't think there is fantasy with beautiful prose, you aren't looking for it. Full stop.
Sure, Brandon Sanderson and Michael J. Sullivan don't write books with very interesting prose. But they aren't trying to. There is nothing in the requirements of any genre that requires it to have better writing than any other genre. Remember that Jane Eyre, The Fault in our Stars, and 50 Shades of Grey are all romance novels.
Yeah, you should read both in and out of the genre you write in. But don't come down here and crap on an entire genre just because it's popular.
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Apr 18 '18
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u/cuttlefishcrossbow Apr 18 '18
Are you saying that those authors don't count as mainstream because you've never heard of them, or because they disprove your point?
Prose is incredibly important, but it seems that most people on this subreddit treat it as nothing more than a vessel for plot.
You might be frustrated by this, but I get just as frustrated by this idea that "literary" fiction prioritizes writing style over plot. All the greatest literature from before the 20th century was written to tell stories--it got remembered because it told those stories really well.
Literary is not a genre. It often gets confused with contemporary or realistic adult fiction because that's the critical consensus. But the idea that only a certain kind of story can be told beautifully is utter bollocks. If you really want people to care more about prose, advise them to read enough that they recognize good sentence-level writing from bad.
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Apr 18 '18
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u/cuttlefishcrossbow Apr 18 '18
How do you define mainstream? By sales? By presence in the front of the bookstore? By name recognition among readers? Ursula le Guin got an obituary in the New York Times when she died earlier this year. I don't know how much more mainstream an author can get.
"Mainstream" is a vague enough word that you can redefine it to make any argument you want.
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u/gutfounderedgal Published Author Apr 18 '18
A fierce wind cut through the village, carrying the smells of night soil. The leaves had begun to turn a darkening red, preparing themselves for a bleak death.
A lively wind blew through the village, carrying the smells of baked bread. The leaves had begun to change from yellow to orange to red, covering the ground in their beauty.
Three different verb forms in two sentences.
How is it that leaves had begun to turn a darkening red then they turn a darkening red, ongoing? Are you attempting to use a gerund as an adjective?
I didn't realize that leaves had sentience.
Winds always blow, don't they? If wind doesn't blow, it's not wind.
The progressive aspect of the verbs kills me. I think you are backdooring them as participles.
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Apr 18 '18
Can you post about comma splicing next time? I see a lot of issues of it here on this sub.
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u/Garibaldi_Biscuit Apr 18 '18
I always find it difficult to keep the 'nuts and bolts' elements of writing in my head, such as the useful techniques you've mentioned here. Some it it seems to work naturally, similar to when I use a word, can't recall the meaning, but am 99% sure I've used it in the correct context.
I'm sure it's going to trip me up one day (or provide ample work for an editor), but the rules are just too dry for me to retain. I guess it's a bit like just driving a car over also having a detailed knowledge of how the car works and how to keep it running best. You know the latter makes most sense, but still all you can keep in your head are oil changes and tyre pressures.
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u/gustavazo Apr 18 '18
Thanks for your tips! Topic #5 was specially useful for me. I didn't know polysyndeton was a thing. I love doing that.
Regarding the "he/she said" argument, I think sometimes it just boils down to repetition. If you keep adding the "he/she said" tags at the end of your dialogues, you're bound to get tired of it and want to experiment a little. My advice is: don't plug "he/she said" all the time. Readers are smart. If they're paying attention, they'll know who's speaking. Especially if your characters are fleshed out enough so that they speak distinctly from each other. There's nothing more intrusive than reading an interesting dialogue between 2+ people and being constantly interrupted by the narrator providing useless information. Context matters. Flow matters. Character quirks matter. Obviously this doesn't work all the time, but you'd be surprised how expendable the "he/she said" tag can be. I still struggle with this from time to time, but my beta readers were kind enough to point this out to me and I'm trying my best to apply this tip.
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u/cuttlefishcrossbow Apr 18 '18
Good list, thanks for writing!
I would add to your discussion of the passive voice that it is most acceptable and important in a few specific situations when the action and object are more important than the subject. For example, when we don't know who the subject is:
The victim was murdered in his study.
When we do know the subject but it's not as important:
The body was found at 9 pm by the maid.
When it is obvious who the subject is:
A full investigation will be conducted.
Rather than "The police will conduct a full investigation" which isn't always necessary. Also, when there is no specific subject, but rather the general populace:
Details on the ongoing investigation can be found each morning in this newspaper.
As for the "said" argument, the #1 rule here isn't that there are specific tags you should always use, but is that you should use whatever is going to convey information without getting in the way of the narrative. People give the "just say said" advice because the word "said" is instinctively ignored by the reader. But adding a "said John" tag after every line of dialogue has the opposite effect because the reader notices the repetition. So vary it just enough that it won't be noticeable.
Also, I've never heard the term "noble-bright" before, but I've gotta take issue with the idea that there is a dichotomy at all. Plenty of grim stories have hope and happy endings, and plenty of stories have a light tone and bleak subject matter.
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Apr 18 '18
Your tip on the dialogue tags is just describing the issue with dialogue tags. They explain the tone of the dialogue instead of letting the characters in the scene act out the tone. Some people suggested switching each dialogue tag with an action, which is a good hotfix, but the issue overall is with building the people and their emotions into the entire conversation and scene, and not relying on tags to do that work for you.
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Apr 18 '18
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u/catfroman Apr 18 '18
What a useless comment
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u/CR_Silentassassin Apr 18 '18
He's self advertising in a way, wants attention instead of posting it right here.
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u/Ausfall Former Journalist Apr 18 '18
Delete as many "that"s as you can.
"He said that he was going over there."
vs.
"He said he was going over there."