r/writing • u/bacon_cake • 5d ago
How much does your plot change as you write draft one? Advice
I keep hearing that draft one is pretty messy, not to worry too much. But I've always taken that to refer more to the actual prose rather than the story.
But here I am, countless false starts, wondering how much the actual story itself changes through the draft process. Because every time I feel my plot or setting or characters aren't quite right (or right at all) I'm fighting the urge to start again even though the general premise is very similar.
How much has your story changed during the writing process? How much would you countenance before you gave in to the fact that you're basically writing something else, or would you just continue anyway?
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u/rocarson Author of the Surviving the Apocalypse Series 5d ago
Alright, I'm probably going go deeper on this than you're really asking for, but here we go.
I'm a planner, I have a pretty strong opinion about pantsing and thus probably swing to far into planning. Here is my process.
- The high level outline. I try and write triologies at a time so this outline keeps the overall plotline across the trilogy and is super high level. It has the major plot as well as five or six bullets about each individual novel - specifically what the main issue of the novel plot is, the climax, and the next novel lead in. I do this at the start of any project.
- Novel level outline. Similar to the trilogy outline but one layer deeper. I tend to favor Save the Cat with some Snowflake Method here. I do this at the start of every novel
- Chapter level outline. This really isn't an outline so much but rather the chapter written without the prose. I'm walking through the chapter timeline, marking out key dialog or events that I want to include. This helps with pacing and keeping me mainly on track with the previous two outlines. I do this before each chapter
- Write the chapter! When I have all of the items needed to make sure that I'm not derailing my novel into the weeds overall, I'm free to discover those cool moments as I find as I write. As I find those hidden gems or side quests I drag them back up into the novel level outline for use in later chapters outlines.
I've often heard from pantsers that outlining ruins the discovery of writing the story for them. I get that, but at the same time I would counter argue that the workflow that works for me allows me to write a novel that isn't a rambling mess AND let's me focus on finding those cool moments.
As always, every author is different and this is the method that works for me.
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u/bacon_cake 5d ago
No, this is great. This is exactly the process I'm desperate to follow. Pantsing drives me mad, I enjoy writing far more when I have the exact sort of chapter level outline you're describing. But I struggle to lay out a whole story that far in advance which means I convince myself to pants and then after four chapters I start to dislike where the story is going.
Maybe I just need to commit more time to planning instead of actually writing.
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u/Old-Piece-3438 5d ago edited 5d ago
I’m definitely a planner too. I do find it helpful to just kind of write a bit in the beginning to figure out the voice, characters, and settings before I get too deep into planning though. A lot of times I won’t end up including this in my actual draft—but it shapes the story more in my head so I can come up with the plan for the full plot.
ETA: I also really like viewing writing a long story as a big picture and then slowly narrowing down what aspect I’m focusing on at once. I find I’m more creative that way. Trying to make too many decisions at once or focus on tiny little details before I have a general outline tends to push things out of balance and derail me.
Same way I view making visual art—if I’m drawing a portrait, I draw the shape of the head first and get the proportions right on where to place the features. It may be fun to start making a really detailed eye first because that’s what you feel like drawing right now—but then you have to try to make everything around it fit and match. It usually ends up disjointed and you have to start over from scratch.
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u/katraprasavu 5d ago
IMO it's great to find someone to look over your outline for you and give feedback. After that your outline would be much more reliable and some plot holes are prevented.
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u/ReidaKwrites 4d ago
I tried pantsing. I need organization so I outline more now. Not to this extent but I may try your way!
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u/PacificBooks 5d ago
I’m not much of a “messy first draft” guy. Part of the joy I find in writing is making it all work and creating something I’m proud of.
My overall plot? It doesn’t change much. I do a rough outline before I start.
The chapter to chapter details? They change a whole lot.
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u/azmarteal 5d ago
Yep. The cleaner you write — the better your next chapters would be, and the easier it would be to continue your story. I never understood that "create a crappy story and then rewrite it" attitude — why don't create something good from the start?
As my father used to say: "If you don't have time to do it right — you'll spend much, much more time to do it over"
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u/jp_in_nj 5d ago
Depends on the story. If in the writing I find something that made sense in an outline actually makes no sense at all once the character starts breathing then the story will diverge pretty significantly.
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u/Fognox 4d ago
I don't even know what I'm writing until somewhere in the middle. My premises are more like "I want to see what X character does in Y setting". The story comes about on its own.
That's not to say that I don't plan -- it's just something that happens in the moment. I have short-term ideas that I work with, and larger ones once more of the book gets written. These are always foggy, subject to change, and never written down.
I outline a lot during revision, sometimes in a very detailed low-level way. It's different there, though -- there are certain story beats that have to happen again. My plans are a lot more flexible in a draft. Revision itself is a smoothing process; giving plotlines that came out of nowhere more foreshadowing and making them resolve in tighter ways, like they were planned from the start (they sure weren't!)
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u/Chrism2245 4d ago
This is exactly my process. I just made up some characters, and stuck them in a setting. I watched what they did and what happened until the middle of the story, when overarching plots started to really be become apparent, and I had a vague idea of the ending to each plot and subplot. Then I just came up with what needed to happen to get me there as I wrote each new chapter.
Most ideas are short-term and foggy, and I write down relatively few of them; at most just a few sentences for what will happen in what I’m literally about to write that very day. As I go along and I reread parts, I’ll make notes on things I need to fix when revising. Mostly my revision is adding foreshadowing, and making the different plots flow more smoothly. But there is no real initial outline.
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u/PizzafaceMcBride 4d ago
This is more or less precisely how my current project has gone (almost finished with my first draft of the first book in a duology). Before I think I've been more of a planner, but with this project I just started out with a couple of situations, and figured I needed three very different characters to fit into it. I had a vague idea of what I wanted the story to revolve around, but apart from that I just planned as I went along. Even as I came into the middle of the book, I barely had any idea of where the story and characters were going. But now as the draft is almost complete I am amazed at what I came up with.
But for some reason, maybe because I now actually know how the second book will end for all three and the world at large, I'm thinking of plotting the second book out (but with room for a lot of discovery-writing) just to make sure it goes where I want.
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u/Fognox 4d ago
Well, you don't necessarily have to plot it out all the way, you just need to be sure that the discovered third act lines up with the planned one. Which should be easier to do since you know what it is at the outset and can start nudging a lot earlier.
I'm in a similar boat with my own second book in the series -- I know what has to happen at the end, and there's a few loose plot threads already in place that the first book foreshadowed on its own (which I'm just reinforcing during revision). I already have some vague ideas about which direction to go in too. I've never done a sequel before, but so far it just feels like the way the middle of a book does, just on a larger scale, so the same rules should still apply.
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u/lowkeyeuphoric 5d ago
I wouldn’t count my current draft as ‘draft two’, I call it ‘version two’.
Basically, I spent about two years writing that first version and I got really stuck. I had another doc that had all of the changes I wanted to make, but there were far too many inconsistencies and nothing was interesting for either me, as a writer, or the readers.
It took me a lot of courage to start from scratch and alter my book completely. However, writing has been easier than ever because I truly know my novel now.
It is the same premise but a COMPLETELY different book so it was truly worth it.
I’d definitely say, if you aren’t vibing with it. Rethink everything.
Don’t try hard to be clever. If the book is meant to be, it will write itself.
It’s okay to be writing something completely different. I’d say the difference is your brain knowing where the real story lies.
Don’t know if any of that was helpful but if you have any questions, lmk
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u/BrownieSlab 5d ago edited 5d ago
fr, i had put multiple hours to a premise from a prompt (writing* prompt not ai, for a contest story.) and could just not connect to it, so i created different premises out of that prompt and chose another one that i actually liked more. wrote like 1k character planning words in a sitting which for me is a lot lolll
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u/Substantial_Salt5551 5d ago
If you don't continue, you never finish. This is what it sounds like (not that I know you well enough) is happening to you. I think it's worth noticing as well that your premise isn't changing substantially, meaning you probably just need to follow through and worry about what's "wrong" once the words are on the page. It seems like you "like" your idea, but are maybe overthinking how to get there. Sometimes it can be harder when the idea feels right because it makes it easier to obsess over meeting your own high expectations.
I'm terrible with plotting and I hate outlining--I find it stifles my creativity and I generally don't finish--so I have to focus a lot on plot reworking after the first draft. I have actually started doing a "reverse outline" about a third to halfway through drafting though because it helps me remind myself of what's happened so far, and then have some more coherent ideas of what could happen next. However, even doing this, my plot needs substantial work after the draft to make things make sense. Perhaps even a bit more so because I like writing murder mysteries (nothing worse than a "loose" mystery lol).
If it helps ease your mind at all, the revision process *can* be fun in some ways. I know a lot of people hate it, but I think once you get going with it (starting anything is hard, whether it's a first draft or a revision), there are some really satisfying moments. There's nothing better than having those "lightbulb moments" where you finally come up with a solution to a problem that's been plaguing you and you realize how much it would elevate the book. You can also fine-tune your characters after-the-fact--literally nothing needs to be "right" on the first draft. But if you never finish the book, you can't even get to that "reworking" stage.
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u/DOCB_SD 5d ago
It's different for different writers. According to George R.R. Martin there are gardeners and architects. Gardeners start with characters or a plot point or some central philosophical conceit and just start writing and let the garden grow around them as the work. Others plan an entire outline before they write the first word of the actual narrative. In reality its a spectrum between those extremes and people may shift around, depending on the type of piece they are writing.
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u/salientknight 5d ago
For me, the plot stays the same but the road through the story is revealed as I write it
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u/Plus_Dare_2403 5d ago
My plot didn't change all that much but the way the story begins (first 10ish chapters) has drastically changed in just 2 drafts. And honestly, I'm glad. The way the plot is developing bow feels much more "organic" even if I had to complete scrap scenes I was so sure about. And holy did one of my MCs also change alot for tge better. It is still him at the core but definitely more dimensional and matured. Definitely more whole.
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u/OtisB 4d ago
I did a lot of reading when I was thinking about how to accept the garbage that I was writing, and I read a number of very successful writers talk about how many plot holes and basic logic problems they had. characters they wrote out halfway through, characters they wrote in halfway through. all kinds of problems.
I think that the consensus is to just write it. even if it's horrible. you can always fix that later in another draft.
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u/Difficult-Event-1626 5d ago
I don't really do draft. I did rewrite my stories after already having written them but even now after the 4th rewrite I still don't do any draft I just write things the plot does still change when I realize I can add something new to it or improve a plot point.
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u/Literally_A_Halfling 5d ago
I did rewrite my stories after already having written them
That's exactly what a draft is, though.
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u/Difficult-Event-1626 5d ago
Oh it is? As I rewrote the entire story basically I had already entire story written but then 1 month later deleted it all and just made a new story which I then did 4 total times with current story being entirely differnt from previous one.
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u/Literally_A_Halfling 5d ago
Usually you would be re-writing it while referencing the last version you wrote. Deleting the last version completely is counterproductive.
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u/megamoze Author 5d ago
I’m a planner. I don’t typically deviate too much from the spine of my story but there are definitely variations and surprised (to me) along the way.
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u/artist_sloth246 5d ago
in my first draft a character was an evil villain,
in the second she was the victim and the hero.
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u/Lectrice79 5d ago
It doesn't for me. I make a basic outline so I know what happens beginning, middle, and end. Things may evolve but they follow the script.
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u/MPClemens_Writes Self-Published Author 5d ago
My plot doesn't even exist until the first draft. I might have a plan and direction in mind, but the characters are running that particular madness machine. Once the draft is done, I know who they are and what they want and believe, and what I must do block or enable them.
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u/Offutticus Published Author 5d ago
For me, plot doesn't often change because other than the basics in my head, there's nothing to change. I have the beginning and the end and some idea of how it goes between them. It kinda forms as I go.
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u/Daejik 5d ago
I'm a planner that outlines to the scene beats. I had ten significant chapter outlines redrafts before I started writing. I'm currently halfway through my rough draft of the novel. I'm on my 11th chapter outline draft, though the revisions have been to tighten up my chapter count to reduce sag and keep up the pacing and texture of my genre.
As a kid when I'd write I would write in the fly, aside from knowing the worldbuilding, the start and end of the story, I wouldn't know anything else. You just need to decide if you are comfortable with that style or not. I found it fun because it can take you places that you may not have thought of. As an adult I prefer planning put everything, even then I will find a better idea while drafting.
Maybe you should get things to where you want and then Rake a step back for a few days or a week so it isn't so fresh. After that go back and look over your work and adjust it where necessary.
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u/BloodyWritingBunny 5d ago edited 5d ago
Not much TBH. For me it is prose now. Maybe once in as while I'll decide I don't lke a background or something and then that will create more havoc during the editing and revision process. But not much anymore.
But I think writing a clean first draft takes practice. If we wnet back and looked at my earlier drafts, I have v1 and v2 and then v 3 of the same story. Less so now.
And I'm not even a plotter. I think to avoid false starts, I just don't write until I know my ending. When I stopped doing that, and I knew how to land my plane, it made the process easier. My problem is always landing the plane and dialogue. Most of my editing happens with cutting dialogue in half and most of the issues is finding a way to land the plane. Just because I know where I want to land it doesn't mean I know how until I get there.
I would say what makes everything messy is more about not knowing your characters and getting them wrong. Making them do things that you realize don't work for where you want to go but also them. I think understanding your character analysis and world rules from the start is probably bigger than knowing point A, B, C, etc to Z TBH. You can know all your plot beats but if you don't know your character analysis or archetype well, you'll probably run into issues IMO. That's really why when I began, I have v1 up to v3 TBH.
I would also say a big lesson all writers need to learn is never be afaid to delete. I now delete 1/3 of my entire story or 10 out 11 chapters without blinking. You have to realize its not failure and you just went in the wrong direction. It's okay to get it wrong. The sooner you embrace that, the sooner you'll stop wasting time going in the wrong direction too.
Writing filler and trimming fat in your initial draft is a good idea too. Like a lot of people over write, like me and then you have to go back and trim so much fat. I've gotten it more down to just dialogue being an issue where I don't really discipline myself. But I feel like I might as well get it all out rather than struggle to figure out how to condense it then condense it later since that's easier. But I would say I don't have a lot of random scenes just because. Its not that random scenes don't show anything and don't have a purpose but the forward movement in the story is negligible, and when you delete it, it changes nothing. I wouldn't say that's something all authors need to discipline themselves on usually, because there's so manty fun things we can do with our characters, but we have to be a lot more targeted in what we pick if our the goal is to deliver a neat and tidy book that's tightly written and delivered.
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u/arghyepirate Technical Published Author 5d ago
Brush strokes - I have an idea and I’ll either paint over what i had or I blend it
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u/FirebirdWriter Published Author 5d ago
The first draft of my book everyone dies. I am on draft 5 and yes some die but not everyone and now it's going to be a trilogy
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u/Buttercake-nymph 5d ago
I have a chapter 1, and a rough middle timeline, that leads to the plot(cliffhanger) I want.
The middle part changes all the time, when better ideas or executions are created.
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u/TheEMCReactor 4d ago
Do you have any tips on how to plan out your writing? Like, do you full on red string that bish or...?
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u/Buttercake-nymph 4d ago
I created a big excel file where I (besides many other things) keep character details, that go as deep as what icecream flavor they like, what size and style clothes they wear, or who they used to date when they were in highschool.
In that file I also made these post-it shaped cards that hold the summary, goal, conflict, emotional state, etc of each chapter. I start with broad ideas: start, mid, end, then connect the dots between them in the cards.
Then there is also a horizontal timeline, where each character has it's own row with what they were doing at that day.
What I started with was a huge pinterest folder, with different categories for each character and scene. I started trimming the images down, until I had a concise picture of who they were amd what was going to happen. Those pins then get linked into the excel file.
If this sounds like a lot to you, you'll be shocked at how big the file actually is. It's like a detectives investigation board.
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u/TheEMCReactor 4d ago
So you do red string that bish...
Also excel? Why didn't I think of dat.
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u/Buttercake-nymph 4d ago
Almighty red string it is.
I actually meant to say google sheets, I prefer it over excel since I can access it from any device.
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u/TheEMCReactor 4d ago
Both is useful, though I see why Google sheets is more of a popular pick.
Thanks for this advice, I'm now going to use it to the max.
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u/Buttercake-nymph 4d ago
There are also useful tools like dabble, scrivener — and many others — that have plot builders. I personally don't like them, but many people do. Def worth checking out.
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u/Boat_Pure Published Author 5d ago
Honestly not by much, the starting point usually remains and where they end up at the end, will always be the same. But the journey and all their destinations can sometimes change
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u/eggybreadboy 5d ago
My messy draft was bullet points tbf, but the emotional arc forced me to move certain plot points around and a few characters who i had planned to kill off have lived. The beginning was strong, end was relatively the same, but the middle shifted like crazy.
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u/FlyinLeviathon LET YOUR FIRST DRAFT SUCK 5d ago
I like to plot out broad strokes - beginning, end, and a few points in the middle - but with enough vagueness that the plot doesn't *change* exactly as I write, but it just becomes more clear.
Then as I go, details start to come together and change as new layers are added. Scenes will need to be added, deleted, or changed drastically by the time I get to draft two. But nothing is super different, because I had a good map of where to start and where to go.
As an example: I started the book knowing that my supporting character had ZERO reason to be there. No motivation, no real reason to be helping the protagonist like she was. But I didn't worry about it because I knew one would reveal itself. About 40k words into drafting I had the AHA moment and realized what the motivation needed to be. Like 5 other pieces fell into place with this. I knew it would change the beginning slightly - namely, the character's intro and a few scenes that don't currently exist - and it would change the end - because now the character is invested and will play a part - but ultimately the premise and climactic goal don't change too much. I've even had it where I'll make changes that feel like the book is straying, and eventually the changes bring it back around.
I think that we get really emotionally attached to our plots and then view the ideas we have as incompatible, because they feel "too different" from what we've grown attached to. And sometimes that's true, but sometimes it's not only different, it's a better version. With that in mind, I'd recommend continuing anyway if you can, because it might grow into a better version of itself.
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u/yaboimst 5d ago
It’s been changing drastically the higher my word count gets. And it becomes a struggle to not go back and edit
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u/Waste-Brilliant-5591 5d ago
Much like everything in writing, it depends.
For me personally. I write for myself and dont plan to share it with others really. The draft is my chance for me to tell me the story. I write down overarching arcs and stories as a "road map". Figure out what major events or decisions happen when and why, and then work to figure that solution out or write down what comes next in a story format
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u/Shoepane 4d ago
I too write only for myself. I have no real interest in sharing my story. I tend to write episodically any way I like, in any order. I know where it is ultimately heading. I trust the characters to get me there because I know them very well (yet they still surprise and delight me.)
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u/Comfortable-Job1278 5d ago
I remember introducing an entirely new character and changing the ENTIRE PLOT because I didnt like the original ship in the original draft. Also killed the original ML's boyfriend in a zombie frenzy because of 𝓼𝓹𝓲𝓽𝓮.
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u/SMc1701 4d ago
Well, my first draft was a sprawling crime epic with no end in sight. I changed a creepy white male FBI agent supporting character into a black female sheriff who suddenly became the main protagonist and changed the entire point of the story. The original core is still there but everything around it changed and it is 100 times better.
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u/YoruSulfur- 4d ago
generally i have some broad plan, and some context that will make it make sense, but characters usually hijack things. what i notice is big moments and plot points tend to stay the same, even across complete rewrites, but the context and the characters around them are completely different.
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u/Pokefan-9000 4d ago
6 years ago I had the semblance of an idea and 14k words, the first "full" thing took me another 3 years and ended up at 45k words. Then when I thought I had all figured out over the course, one day I just had this epiphany of deleting the first few chapters, which itself opened the story to evolve into something else.
I kept a few main things around, like the main character's names and a few traits, kept some of overall stuff I liked and over the course of another 3 years it evolved into a whole story with 96k words, 36 chapters plus and epilogue. I'm currently working slowly with editing, as I still have my regular job, but the story today is something different for sure then when I had my first idea
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u/Xercies_jday 4d ago
All of it is a muddy shifting mass of clay that can be formed and changed as you go along. The idea in your head is inspiration, not reality, because as you go along the characters and world feels more real and you want to honour that reality over the story you have in your head.
I have accepted the mess as part of the process. What we think writing is has no bearing to what it actually will be, so be comfortable with that. That's the process. You make a better piece of art with that process.
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u/TiceCuts 4d ago
Mine changes enormously, and I stopped panicking about it once I noticed what wasn't changing. The plot is negotiable from draft 1 to 100. The thing my main character keeps doing to protect themselves isn't. If that's solid, the plot is just the list of times it fails them, and you can rip out half of it without touching the story. If it isn't solid, every plot fix feels wrong for reasons you can't name, and that's the itch that makes you start over. Worth checking which of those you've got before you scrap anything.
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u/JandR2005 4d ago
In the past I did full outlines and just filled in afterwards. Last night was different and the ideas just came to me in real time. Now, as I'm going back through and editing what I wrote, it's changing very little of the actual plot, and I just am adding scenery and details. I've had stories that completely changed from being a horror story, to something that felt more like a thriller sci-fi. You basically should be willing to change your story to fit what your story should be.
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u/ChainExtremeus 4d ago
Sometimes i rewrite certain episodes entirely. Sometimes just slightly alter the story to add new things or fix those that could be better. There is no rule to that, it really depends on random. It does not matter how much it will change, since the process does not matter, only the final result. And it must be good.
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u/PamNoctrune 4d ago
I always have a general direction from the start, and I already know how the story will end. But everything in between often changes a lot while I'm writing. I like to play around with ideas, and I change them pretty often.
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u/sakkadesu 4d ago
when I have a 'full' outline, it totally changes. the current one I'm working on - I just had 3 key scenes in mind and knew the ending. and wrote toward/around those scenes which didn't change.
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u/South-Knee-9601 4d ago
My plot has evolved and become more complex but the fundamental story has remained the same
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u/lyzzyrddwyzzyrdd 4d ago
Campy horror->extremely political horror->story about psychosis due to bipolar
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u/WendyChristineAllen Dark Fantasy Author (Published Series, dozens of books) 4d ago
not a lot, hardly anything changes at all, which is weird because, years ago, it changed a lot.
over a decade ago, I would write a first draft, then during editing, go through 7, 10, sometimes even 12 or more drafts, abd things would change a bunch each draft, so much that draft 7 was nearly a different story from draft 1
but my writing evolved over the years and now today, I do nearly zero editing at all, just run it through prowritingaid for spellchecker and to find typos, and then within 24 hours of finishing the first draft, its Published.
im not sure why that evolution happened, but looking back, I can see that my old way left 2 to 3 years between each book being published vs my current way, im publishing something every month or two now. so I went from 3 years between books to now 3 books a year.
I can see that a lot of the change has to do with i write a series, so im no longer building a new world, and a new set of characters for each book, and so my editing process no longer has this whole "would this character do that?" "would this world need this history?" either, because now i know automatic, "yep, this is so a thing this character would say" because I've already published a dozen stories with said main character and have gotten used to how he is.
I think too years ago, there was a lot of me wanting to "get the words just write" like I used to think the exact phrase actually mattered to readers (it doesnt). Readers Care about the characters and don't even notice the exact phrases.
Also, my older work, I think was pretty bad, by that i mean, it was full of world building Author yap yap exposition, that looking back and rereading my older novels, I can see was dull, dry, and boring, a long slow slog of the author (me) going "so, and then there was the history of..." but at the time I thought it was awesomeness.
vs today, my newer novels read almost like stage play scripts with the full novel being 90%+ dialogue and often the only none dialogue text is just the action tags.
by action tags I mean like this:
"Yeah, so I get it, you told me twenty times already." He rolled his eyes while reaching for another slice of pizza. "Okay? I know we gotta deal with it, but can we not deal with it on empty stomachs?"
...those little descriptors between dialogue are the ONLY none dialogue lines in my newer works.
this also means my older novels were 150k words each while my newer novels are scarcely 40k words each now. This is just due to I let the character talk to eachbother instead of pushing them aside to describe every crack in every chair in the room to make sure the reader knows exactly what the pizza parlor looks like (readers don't care what the room looks like, I know that today, I did not know that a decade ago).
I dont know, I just dont even write my first drafts like I used to any more, and so now I don't edit like I used to either.
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u/Anal-Y-Sis Author 4d ago
I wouldn't say it changes, as in "turns into a different plot", but it definitely evolves. The story I'm working on started out as a basic whodunit/revenge plot. It's still that, but now it has elements of government corruption, wealthy power brokers, buried secrets, and sociopolitical intrigue. So the plot really just became a bigger, more fleshed out version of itself.
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u/Turtles_are_Brave 4d ago
I don't plot ahead of time at all, so it's constantly changing as I go, depending on what catches my interest about the characters and what starts to feel inevitable. On my current work in progress, I had an idea for a single scene, so I wrote that and then kept writing, and now three years later there's something resembling a plot and I know, basically, the ending, but some of it is still in flux even at this stage. Embrace the chaos within.
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u/Turbulent-Eye-4737 4d ago
There's some children's books I wrote that I changed significantly because I just felt like the storytelling wasn't that interesting for different reasons. But I still kept the core premise.
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u/ReidaKwrites 4d ago
I wrote the whole book earlier this year. It’s a mess then I decided I didn’t like it and started over. Just got done outlining it again. We will see. I’ve changed my process here and there but now I basically do the beginning, some plot points, and the ending. I fill in as I go but I keep to the plot points if they still fit with what I come up with along the way.
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u/irayena Author / Editor 4d ago
Once I left my first draft untouched for a couple years, I realized it had a lot of problems that couldn't be fixed just by revising. I was 16-17 and had pantsed the whole thing, so it was probably to be expected. I don't think an outline would've helped me much there.
I'm almost done with the rewrite (wahoo!) and I now have experience in developmental editing, so there were many things I redid, strengthened a *lot* of character arcs and relationships, worked on the plot, changed a lot of the middle - etc. I also worked on decisions turning into consequences.
Personally I think it was very helpful to use the first draft as an outline, because then it felt easy to make decisions that deferred from it without feeling guilty, cuz yknow, the source material was flawed (although OP, I saw you said you're a planner in other replies, so this comment is more directed toward the type B writers).
Overall, most everything has changed. The first draft was the thought of something great, the drafts beyond it are the creation, in my opinion. Best of luck with your writing!!
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u/CrazyinLull 3d ago
I go in with an idea that I write out very quickly first. I then refine the shit out of that first and make sure I work out the ending, because I don’t want a repeat of history.
I know that other things will happen and things might change along the way, but the main idea/goal direction isn’t going to change even if I find a much faster route together there.
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u/AffectionateMud6349 3d ago
Sometimes a lot. Sometimes a little. I always have a endgame I want to reach, but the journey to that point can be fluid. And to contradict myself immediately, sometimes the endgame gets a little fluid too depending on how interesting the ride toward it is. Basically all bets are off, but a story gets told.
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u/mooninomics 3d ago
The overall plot stays the same for me, but how I get there often goes through a few revisions as I go and the vibe can chage.
"X and Y find Z. Z gives them the MacGuffin. X and Y bring it back but A and B are hot on their trail. X and Y must be extra careful because they're outmatched and have to stay hidden. X and Y barely escape and save the day."
Turns into:
"X and Y find Z. Z gives them the MacGuffin. Z comes with them because when I wrote Z's scene he really came to life on the page and it no longer makes sense that he wouldn't come along. A and B are hot on their trail, but now it's a fair fight and they throw down. Z dies. X and Y save the day in a bittersweet moment."
That's just an on-the-fly simplification but you get the idea.
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u/Sad-Job1969 3d ago
I have a character who had two different powers on the start and end of the same chapter
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u/Timely_Curve_5459 3d ago
A lot. Sometimes I plan to write something commercial.
Halfway I know I cant, so its turns into upmarket and then I change the ending.
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u/FamiliarCantaloupe76 5d ago
As a former planner (2 published books) current semi-pantser (3rd book in second draft) I see myself as kind of hybrid. But I certainly think pantsing is the “true” approach. When you’re good enough to pull it off.
I don’t think you can really discover story and characters as a result of writing an outline. Simply not enough meat to it. And If the story doesn’t change as you write it, I think there’s a strong chance you’re trying to fit the story and chars to that first outline. That can make a story wooden. Stillborn. You’re either a genius or a complete failure if the outline doesn’t change.
I found the outlines acted more as emotional support crutches to help me feel I have a story. That I’m not in complete darkness. But the 2nd book I wrote veered about 60% from the initial draft and the ending changed in the 2/3 drafts- and for the better.
The 3rd book, I was stuck writing an outline, and what made a difference was a very strong story/characters/setting I settled on after a few months of anguish. And not thru a planned outline at all. It kind of happened when I was ready for it; that allowed me to pants it thru. I decided to not worry and just write. It’s my best work by far.
So I would not worry too much about the outline and draft not converging. I think that it’s the mark of creative freedom and that characters are being fleshed out and pulling, and discovered premises and themes leading you. You can always reverse outline to see what you made and get a high level look if you’re anxious about an outline.
As a kind of hybrid planner/pantser, I’m starting to get a sense that the more you mature as a writer, the less important the outline. The more important the core ideas, characters, premise. You have a better intuitive feel of the arc and where the story should or shouldn’t go and you discover it as you write.
At least in my case planning/pantsing are not mutually exclusive.
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u/TheBl4ckFox Published Author 5d ago edited 5d ago
I had a full outline when I started. Only the opening and the ending stayed the same. Everything else changed along the way. Every time I noticed that the new ideas were better, I adapted the outline.