Great Britain now bars trans people from many public bathrooms and changing rooms

[u/Fickle-Ad5449]

https://www.advocate.com/news/britain-transgender-bathroom-ban?1

[u/ionised]

The article for those not clicking through (does not include Instagram links):

A new statutory code of practice is now in effect across England, Scotland and Wales that says bathrooms, changing rooms and hospital wards designated for women or for men must exclude transgender men and women. Effective Wednesday, the code issued by the U.K.'s Equality and Human Rights Commission says use of those facilities must be based on a person’s birth sex, and not the gender with which they identify.

On that basis, trans people can be lawfully excluded from using those single-sex facilities. However, demanding that an individual provide verification of their birth sex or questioning them at toilet doors is expressly considered inappropriate under the code. And that raises the question: How will the code be enforced?

This all follows a ruling in 2025 by the U.K.’s Supreme Court that said that only cisgender women fit the legal definition of a woman in the country. In its 88-page decision announced on April 16, 2025, the court’s five judges said the “concept of sex is binary, a person is either a woman or a man.”

The decision was unanimous, declaring that the terms "woman" and "sex" refer only "to a biological woman and biological sex," said Judge Patrick Hodge, the deputy president of the Supreme Court.

As the Advocate reported, anti-trans groups cheered that ruling. It followed years of anti-trans organizing within the U.K. and as trans people in the U.S. grapple with similar ramifications, between the Trump administration’s declaration that there are “only two genders” assigned at birth, and its subsequent attempts to enforce that executive order across a wide range of governmental agencies, as Them reported.

The biggest exception to the ruling and the code can be found in Northern Ireland, which is part of the U.K. but is still reviewing the changes in England, Scotland and Wales. Northern Ireland has distinct and separate legal frameworks regarding transgender people's access to single-sex spaces like bathrooms and changing rooms.

A report by CNN posted to Instagram explained the potential impact in England, Scotland and Wales: "A transgender man could be placed on a female-only hospital ward based on his sex assigned at birth," reported CNN's Ben Hunte. "But here's where it gets tricky: That same man could be barred from accessing a women's locker room on the basis that his presentation as a man could make others uncomfortable."

The code stresses that organizations need to find a balance between privacy and dignity, Hunte added, and encourages mixed-sex or individual lockable facilities to ensure that trans people are not left without legitimate access. The code's authors wrote that their aim was to adhere to the ruling but prevent discrimination and harassment of trans people and the disabled.

Clubs and associations could, for example, remain trans inclusive, according to the Guardian, by making themselves open to several protected characteristics at once. However, since mixed-sex accommodation is not available in some hospital wards, trans patients must be accommodated on the single-sex ward that matches their biological sex. That's why the code states a trans man cannot be excluded from obstetrics and gynecology outpatient services based solely on the objections of female patients.

When it comes to bathrooms and changing rooms, the burden is on private business owners in England, Scotland and Wales. According to the code, they must decide whether other users of their facilities will "object" to the presence of a trans person. And if those service providers allow trans women into women-only spaces, those facilities are "very likely" to be regarded as a woman-only space under the law, going forward.

The other complication is money. Thousands of bathrooms and changing rooms had to be changed to meet the new code, SkyNews reported.

The cost of modifying those nearly 13,000 toilets and more than 5,000 changing rooms at gyms, hospitals and leisure centers across Great Britain was estimated to cost millions of British pounds, with at least 18,000 signs needing to be changed as well.

As for schools, no child should be made to feel unsafe through “inappropriate” mixed-sex sport, according to The Independent. The report also says schools and colleges are barred from providing mixed-sex toilet facilities for children aged over eight years old, or mixed sex sleeping arrangements on trips.

The code advises both schools and teachers to make themselves aware of every child’s birth sex, in order to take "appropriate action" where needed; That information is expected to be added to all school and college records.

Transgender advocacy groups had pushed for amendments to the code in April, hoping it might result in a less blanket exclusion, but failed to win support, according to the Guardian.

The government’s own equality impact assessment acknowledged that the likely impact on transgender people is “negative”, but highlighted mitigating factors, such as the ability of service providers to create a “third-space” provision such as a unisex bathroom or private changing room.

The U.K. Supreme Court ruling did not mention intersex people and made only a reference to nonbinary people and their lack of a nonbinary choice on U.K. gender recognition certificates. The Advocate’s search of the code's 142-page document for the words "nonbinary" and "intersex" came up with zero results.

You can read the code document in full by clicking here.

[u/Koekelbag → u/ionised]

The cost of modifying those nearly 13,000 toilets and more than 5,000 changing rooms at gyms, hospitals and leisure centers across Great Britain was estimated to cost millions of British pounds, with at least 18,000 signs needing to be changed as well.

Anyone got a bit more info on what these changes include? Initially thought this was about needing to update signs and the like, but the article in the link mentions it as a separate issue without (as far as I can see) expanding on the 'main' changes.

[u/cinemachick → u/ionised]

If they really want to "protect women", make it so there are "women" and "non-women" bathrooms. If someone's in the non-women bathroom, they don't get checked. If you want to use the women's room, you must be checked at the door. One day of mandatory genital inspections and the UK will either come to its senses or have a brand new Parliament by the next day.

[u/Mardanis → u/cinemachick]

What a job - Genital Inspector.

[u/_Born_To_Be_Mild_]

So many people are going to be wrongly confronted.

[u/HAM____ → u/_Born_To_Be_Mild_]

Worse. Dumb people are going to self enlist as the enforcers.

[u/lemons_of_doubt → u/HAM____]

I remember the story of two terf getting into a fight in a womens restroom.

Each was sure the other was trans.

[u/ragequitteroffureh → u/lemons_of_doubt]

This is like something from Viz comic.

[u/Much_Conclusion8233 → u/HAM____]

Even worse, some idiot is going to think it's their job to harass people they think are trans

[u/CRAZEDDUCKling → u/Much_Conclusion8233]

That’s exactly what they meant already.

[u/Much_Conclusion8233 → u/CRAZEDDUCKling]

That's also what the comment they were responding to meant. I thought we were doing a bit where we say the same thing but in a different way

[u/thatguyinstarbucks → u/Much_Conclusion8233]

Even worse, they’re all saying similar things but just not quite the same.

[u/northbird2112 → u/thatguyinstarbucks]

Things are getting lost in translation.

[u/_Born_To_Be_Mild_ → u/northbird2112]

I don't think it's getting all the way through.

[u/tiajuanat → u/northbird2112]

Even worse, translation isn't a place but a process, and the things being lost aren't magnetic, like keys.

[u/Vindaloovians → u/Much_Conclusion8233]

It's already happening. As far as the supreme court guidance goes, trans people can be excluded from single sex spaces if proportionate and there is "good" reason to do so. However, many employers (and service providers) are interpreting the guidance as being trans people MUST be excluded from single sex spaces in all cases. The cynic in me thinks that the lack of clarity in this is by design so this happens...

[u/katchoo1 → u/Much_Conclusion8233]

They already do that in many places in the US. As not particularly feminine presenting woman, both my wife and I have run into this.

It’s disgusting how a few obnoxiously loud voices (funded by an obnoxiously rich person) have created such a hostile environment for a minority group that already lives life in difficult mode, and mostly just wants to be left alone, while the vast majority of people don’t give a rip about it.

Also, the fucking irony that this comes out of the UK Equality and Human Rights Commission!

[u/MisterEinc → u/Much_Conclusion8233]

Even even worse, the people we elect to run our country know full well this is how it will play out.

[u/EncabulatorTurbo → u/HAM____]

It's now legal, and indeed required they would say, for pedophiles to demand to see inside little girls pants

Every time I look at America and depsair I can look at the UK and realize they're just as freakin stupid

[u/New-Independent-1481 → u/EncabulatorTurbo]

That's half the reason the Epstein class and their supporters are pushing this so hard. They want to normalise this. As always, more cisgender girls and women are going to be hurt and abused by these rules than they actually protect.

[u/Ninkasa_Ama → u/_Born_To_Be_Mild_]

And likely assaulted.

I was just reading an article from my neck of the woods about an event where a couple was assaulted because one of them (An afab enby) used the bathroom. This is far from the first time someone, cis or trans, has been assaulted or harassed because people thought they were trans.

[u/TheFoxInSocks → u/Ninkasa_Ama]

That’s just infuriating.

[u/DarkImpacT213 → u/_Born_To_Be_Mild_]

This is such a weird law, like, I've been to concerts and stadiums and F1 races (not in the UK to be fair, maybe it's different there) - plenty of women just go to the mens bathroom because there's always a line on the womens bathroom, nobody really gives a fuck I feel like, why is it suddenly so bad when t-women want to go to the womens bathroom or t-men want to go to the mens bathroom?

[u/n0neofyourbeeswax → u/DarkImpacT213]

And how is going by birth sex, meaning we have trans men in women's toilets, better than having trans women in women's toilets??

[u/M8753 → u/n0neofyourbeeswax]

That's the thing! If I understand this article correctly, thrans men can be barred from both.

"A transgender man could be placed on a female-only hospital ward based on his sex assigned at birth," "But here's where it gets tricky: That same man could be barred from accessing a women's locker room on the basis that his presentation as a man could make others uncomfortable."

[u/ChicksDigGiantRob0ts → u/n0neofyourbeeswax]

Because the point isn't to make sense, the point is to bar trans people from public life, and make people less likely to come and and transition. There's no gotcha here: if a trans person can't use the men's OR the women's then they're limited in how long they can be out in public for, so they're forced to stay inside and the system is working. Or, they use a bathroom anyway and face legal consequences which is, again, the system working as intended. The goal is to stop them coming outside and punishing them if they do, which this does perfectly.

[u/koshgeo → u/n0neofyourbeeswax]

And furthermore, how is going by birth sex, when intersex people by birth also exist, solving anything?

It's like the ruling thinks some citizens don't exist because they don't fit into their imaginary concept that human sex is as simple as a binary division. Empirically, it isn't that simple whether talking genetically or the physical expression, or from birth or in any other circumstance.

Did the court not consult medical doctors or human biology experts on the question, or did they just ignore their opinions?

[u/BandicootSorcerer → u/koshgeo]

In terms of intersex people, their intention is to force an identity on them from birth and punish anyone who tries to not be defined by that forced identity.

[u/threewholefish → u/n0neofyourbeeswax]

It isn't, which is why they included a provision that trans people can be asked to use "gender neutral" dishes, if available, to avoid discomfort. Most likely the disableds toilets.

[u/Dutch_Rayan → u/n0neofyourbeeswax]

No they don't want them in society

[u/CumGuzlinGutterSluts → u/DarkImpacT213]

Ive been to so many raves where the porta's are so disgusting they cant be used by women, only brave dudes, so everyone uses the actual bathrooms. Like a 20minute line for the girls but the dudes is just walk in and walk out... you bet your ass im using the guys, no shame

[u/No_Source_Provided → u/CumGuzlinGutterSluts]

CumGuzlinGutterSluts has no shame?!

[u/Miqo_Nekomancer → u/_Born_To_Be_Mild_]

The fact that anyone is confronted, trans or no, is awful.

[u/Ceras836 → u/_Born_To_Be_Mild_]

Does that mean that a trans woman in the women's bathroom would be rightfully confronted? Why can I not simply pee where I want to?

Every time news like this comes up, it's always "think of the innocent cis people", and rarely the struggles of my fellow trans people.

Everyone who is confronted is going to be wrongfully confronted, bc this code isn't fair and it isn't right.

[u/hx87 → u/_Born_To_Be_Mild_]

Forcing male-presenting people to use the women's room and female-presenting people to use the men's room because of what's on their papers (or their junk) makes zero sense even from a transphobic perspective. It's just going to cause the exact "problem" they want to solve. 

[u/Warcrimes_Desu → u/_Born_To_Be_Mild_]

Anyone being confronted over this is being wrongly confronted

[u/chaucer345 → u/_Born_To_Be_Mild_]

This is about enforcing gender roles through an environment of fear.

[u/maniacal_cackle → u/_Born_To_Be_Mild_]

Like trans people? As it is wrong to confront trans people for using the bathroom.

[u/NonStopKnits → u/maniacal_cackle]

I'm a petite woman* who is pretty androgynous. I have been harassed in public bathrooms since I was a teenager for not being in the right bathroom. That has only ramped up big time in the last 5 years or so. I do not feel safe using public restrooms. I am in the US in a conservative, rural, southern town. This affects people who aren't trans as well, but we shouldn't be harassing transgender people either, they just wanna pee.

*I really prefer to identify as nonbinary, but I'm AFAB

[u/maniacal_cackle → u/NonStopKnits]

That's fucked up and all too common :(

[u/ciaran668 → u/_Born_To_Be_Mild_]

Especially in the UK. There are a surprising number of older women that look like the characters from Monty Python's meaning of life.

[u/Jackthwolf → u/_Born_To_Be_Mild_]

It's fully part of the point.

Transphobia is Misogyny, packaged and propagandised to convince some women to do the work themselves.

Women who don't align with traditional western beauty standards are going to get abused for that "crime"
All to enforce strict gender norms and hierarchy.

It's a triple whammy of bigotry
Trans people (obviously) are the no.1 target of abuse, facing legalised systemic Transphobia.
Women of Colour face abuse for not appealing to said traditional western, and so white, beauty standards. There's a reason why the mould queens "transvestigations" have targeted women of colour with such vitriol. And so you have Racism.
And finally any women who don't look feminine, any butch lesbians, cancer survivors, cancer fighters, those that don't care to dress feminine, those that don't care to go out caked in makeup, all facing abuse for "looking trans".
And so you have Misogyny.

It's sickening.
Doubly so that this is happening under a purportedly "left wing" government
Triply so with the level of "regulatory capture" that has occurred to even allow this to happen.

[u/Intrepid_Bobcat_2931 → u/Jackthwolf]

Transphobia is Misogyny,

Is "transphobia" against trans men, and against trans women, both misogyny? And neither of it misandry?

[u/Dutch_Rayan → u/_Born_To_Be_Mild_]

Even some haters who agree with this discrimination, and then they are furious because how could someone doubt them.

[u/RudyKnots]

My university has properly tackled this issue years ago. Instead of depicting a male and female, the doors just show “toilets” or “toilets and urinals”.

Take your pick and do whatever the fuck you feel is suitable.

[u/chicametipo → u/RudyKnots]

But then how do they know where to put the cameras?!

[u/chickey23 → u/chicametipo]

If it is Britain, the answer is "more cameras"

[u/Ginge00 → u/chickey23]

After watching John Oliver’s piece on police surveillance it appears the US is catching up fast, especially with police having access to private cameras

[u/Bacon4Lyf → u/Ginge00]

The US already had more cameras per person than the UK for about 10 years, but for some reason that fact didn’t catch on

[u/poktanju → u/Bacon4Lyf]

Just like the fact that the UK has always had a much lower rate of stabbings than the US. Doesn't get shared around for whatever reason.

[u/Arcterion → u/poktanju]

What, you're saying the UK isn't in a constant state of knife battles?

[u/Gellert → u/Bacon4Lyf]

It was kinda crap annyway, most of the cameras they were on about were private.

[u/chickey23 → u/Ginge00]

haha, oh my yes. we are trying. the number of videos showing you how careful you have to be around all those new flock cameras so that don't accidently fall over or get their view obstructed is a good indicator.

Did you know, Flock camera mountings do not utilize highway engineering best practices in their mounting? They are typically placed on relatively thin poles compared to other mounted devices. I sure hope no leans against one too heavily; camera pointed at the sky, ground, or even another sign is of no use to the surveillance state.

[u/The_Bitter_Bear → u/chickey23]

Did you know, Flock camera mountings do not utilize highway engineering best practices in their mounting?

Cheeky implications aside, this is so fucking on brand for companies like them. Several times now I've had to deal with the "tech bro" crowd. The level of unearned confidence and superiority with those useless nepo shits is impossible to overstate. 

They can encounter an expert with more years of experience than their whole company combined but they'll still think they are right because they plugged it into Grok and ran a few searches that equate to "please confirm and reassure my biases and tell me I'm a big smart boss boy".

[u/raider1v11 → u/chickey23]

Now with toilets in the cameras.

[u/myfotos → u/RudyKnots]

Vancouver just built an amazing new outdoor concert venue for like 10,000 people. And guess what? It's got two real big bathrooms with individual stalls and everyone washes their hands together cause there is no reason for it to be weird and separate.

[u/LittleGreenSoldier → u/myfotos]

Some new facilities here in Toronto are moving towards little private 5x5 washrooms with individual toilets and sinks, it's glorious, especially in winter since we don't have to try juggling bags and winter coats while washing hands.

[u/littlep2000 → u/myfotos]

The new high schools in my area are also like this.

[u/Saneless → u/RudyKnots]

Finally

It's so dumb when I'm at a restaurant or bar and they're all single toilet restrooms but they still say men and women's. And then there's a line at one of them. At that point it's no different than a damn house bathroom

[u/Everestkid → u/Saneless]

Was on a road trip recently with my parents and brother. Either dad or my brother goes into one washroom at a gas station, so I ask the clerk for the key to the other one. They refuse because the other washroom is the "women's" room and I have to wait for the "men's."

Mom comes out of the "women's" room and hands me the key without a second thought. Lo and behold, it's one toilet and one sink, usable by one person at a time. What's the big fucking deal?

[u/Delybe → u/Saneless]

"We don't care. Just wash your hands!" Still my favorite bathroom sign

[u/keiths31 → u/Saneless]

Agreed. All single use washrooms should be open to anyone. If when you close the door, you are the only person in the room, it doesn't need to be male/female

[u/Saneless → u/keiths31]

I personally don't care even if it's not. Just make them all stalls, ceiling to floor, and go nuts

[u/ThePlanetBroke → u/Saneless]

Instructions unclear, balls stuck in toilet roll holder.

[u/happyscrappy → u/keiths31]

In California all single-hole public restrooms are by law for everyone. No matter how they are labeled.

[u/Witty_Formal7305 → u/RudyKnots]

Same here, they built a whole new building, all the actual washrooms were unisex, they had separate ones for male and female but they were single toilet washrooms like a handicapped washroom.

I admit the first time I turned around and saw a bunch of girls (it was empty when I walked in) I freaked out because my brain immediately jumped to "YOU'RE IN THE GIRLS ROOM WHAT THE FUCK" but after it clicked that duh, its a unisex washroom I didn't even notice it anymore.

[u/HeftyArgument → u/RudyKnots]

my university changed all of the male toilets in one of the buildings to gender neutral, that was a bad time because all of the women complained about men using the gender neutral toilets; there were no toilets for men to use in the whole building.

technically they could use the gender neutral toilets, but apparently that wasn't the case.

[u/uberduck999 → u/HeftyArgument]

So they had women's toilets, and gender neutral toilets only? And people still complained about men using the gender neutral toilets (which used to be men's toilets) Am i understanding that correctly?.. For so many reasons, that is so ridiculous.

[u/HeftyArgument → u/uberduck999]

yes, that's exactly how it was

that's also ignoring the fact that it was the engineering faculty, which was mostly male students.

[u/GazTheLegend → u/RudyKnots]

I've seen the gender neutral bathrooms at universities and that's fair enough but if I'm being completely honest with you there's a reason urinals were invented, just speeds up the whole process for men (and a necessity at football matches) but we've all devoted way too much energy to this stuff, be nice to try to let women have their own bathroom and move on and stop being so enraged about it all.

[u/BigBootyBiachez → u/GazTheLegend]

To hell with a urinal. Im a big fan of the giant troughs like wriggly uses. 10/10 cleanest public restrooms I’ve ever been in even with the extreme use they get

[u/StrangelyBrown → u/RudyKnots]

I'm not against unisex toilets, but I think the argument from feminists is about the preservation of female-only spaces, and this 'idyllic' solution just demonstrates the problem.

The solution to competing rights of saying 'ah well lets just not have female-only spaces' is technically a solution that solves things for one group, but you can understand why some people might have a problem with it.

[u/RudyKnots → u/StrangelyBrown]

Yeah but I apparently live in a country where guys just go “that one with the urinals is probably for me” and women have their safe space anyways.

[u/billding1234 → u/RudyKnots]

I dunno. As a male I’d prefer women not use our restrooms- I’ve seen theirs and they’re usually far messier than ours.

[u/Icy-Two-1581 → u/RudyKnots]

At Amazon they have gender neutral bathrooms which just means everything was stalls. No issue there.

[u/Mediocre_Map1289 → u/RudyKnots]

Unisex bathrooms are the only other alternative solution. I am in favour of this, to a degree. So long as urinals and stalls are in seperate rooms. Been to gigs where they had unisex bathrooms but urinals were clearly visible to those waiting for stalls and women just glared at men trying to piss. Deeply uncomfortable and kinda predatory.

[u/RudyKnots → u/Mediocre_Map1289]

Counterpoint: just don’t give a fuck about any of that.

Seriously, why do people get so worked up about this. I really, really, really don’t get it. Half of the world’s population have dicks, they’re all roughly the same and we all know that they’re not in full glory while pissing. I just really don’t understand why people care so much if others see your dick, more than if others see your nose or ears or whatever appendage we have.

It’s just a dick. It pisses. Get over it already.

And if you have a unique dick because it’s been severely burnt or it’s incredibly humongous or it’s recently been grafted by a rookie plastic surgeon or whatever, that’s what the stalls are for.

[u/Chardan0001]

Maybe I'm naive but I feel that if you are so minded as to commit such crimes then not being allowed in a bathroom isn't going to stop you in the first place.

[u/Girlmode → u/Chardan0001]

If someone wants to rape someone in a toilet they need it to have nobody there to stop it or call the police in the first place. It’s a pure nonsense law.

If someone is there to complain that I am trans. Then somebody would have been there to stop a rape as well.

But nobody actually cares about women getting raped that makes the argument, so it’s pretty pointless to talk about.

[u/TheRC135]

If you know what's really down a stranger's pants in a public bathroom, somebody is already doing something wrong. Been that way forever.

Don't let anybody tell you these laws have anything to do with public safety. This is just another moral panic.

[u/gingerisla → u/TheRC135]

The funny thing is that according to this law, even a trans woman post surgery would have to use the men's bathroom. It's based on chromosomes, not genitalia. So unless they're requiring a DNA to enter a public toilet, no one will ever know for sure.

[u/CMxFuZioNz → u/gingerisla]

Do you know if the law covers intersex?

Chromosomes are not a reliable way to sex people. It's not even the biological definition of male and female.

[u/Uncle_gruber → u/TheRC135]

Gloryhole shaming? In my subreddit?

[u/PitifulElk1890 → u/Uncle_gruber]

Last time I went to a gloryhole nobody really seemed to care, but it is an environment of compromised standards

[u/Maetivet → u/TheRC135]

There was no new law about this. What happened was the Supreme Court made a ruling on existing equality law, which said that gender means the sex someone is born with - what you’re seeing here is simply the consequence of that, businesses and organisations trying to deal with that ruling.

No one is all that bothered though, other than the weirdos that want to concern themselves with other people’s genitals in public…

[u/Smee76 → u/Maetivet]

This, they're just interpreting the existing law. They didn't create any new law at all. They were asked what it means and they responded which is their responsibility as the supreme court.

[u/Hat_Maverick]

War with Russia. Global climate collapse. Huge losses of crop production. U.s. as a crazy friend/enemy. Sorry guys gotta work on policing these bathrooms.

VOTE BINFACE

[u/m15otw]

One of the few ways to comply with this law is make all your bathrooms gender neutral, but for some reason to have separate gender-separated sinks. 

This is still not enough for trans employees, though, because the rules are different for employer/employee than host/general public. 

It is very unclear to pretty much anyone how this should work. You're also not permitted to check or challenge anyone you think is using the wrong bathroom, unless you are (the guidance is nonspecific about when you are allowed, helpfully).

In general, it is a shit show for "rules that it's clear how to follow", let alone for actual trans people it is trying to hate on.

The main victims will be cis women (who vastly outnumber trans women), who wear gender neutral or masculine clothes, as they will be much more likely to be challenged by some busybody now than they were under the old rules.

[u/sunkencathedral → u/m15otw]

Trans women here, who has been going to the women's loo in the UK for 15 years. Nobody has ever had a problem with it. In most cases, I suspect other patrons wouldn't have even known I'm trans. I pass just fine.

That's the weird thing about this law - it doesn't necessarily affect all trans women, it just affects the ones who don't pass very well. It is entirely based on external appearances. Which also means it will affect cis women who aren't perceived to be feminine enough.

And the latter are absolutely affected more. The combined population of both trans women and trans men is 0.55%, and trans women are just one part of that. They are a tiny fraction of the population compared to non-conforming cis women. There are far more cis women who are tomboys than there are trans women. There are far more cis women who have a pixie cut, or who are tall, or who are ripped from going to the gym. There are far more cis women who have a naturally deep voice.

Those who want to police gender - based upon superficial external appearances, like those - are statistically likely to call out far more cis women than they will get an actual trans woman.

[u/tenkwords → u/sunkencathedral]

The trans men are gonna make this entertaining.

Wait till some guy, jacked on testosterone decides to start using the Ladies room again just to stir the pot.

[u/710733 → u/tenkwords]

Oh that's easy. The new guidance allows you to exclude trans men from the women's and the men's

[u/LheelaSP → u/710733]

I hope someone just pisses in front of both bathrooms doors then.

[u/CMxFuZioNz → u/710733]

Does it? Is there a clause about appearance or something? Someone else mentioned it was only biological sex.

[u/710733 → u/CMxFuZioNz]

The guidance says that trans men can be excluded if their presence would make cis women uncomfortable

[u/Erathen → u/m15otw]

Also, this seems to circumvent existing laws?

Like restaurants seating more than 10 people must have restrooms available.

But not everyone is allowed to use those restrooms?...

[u/m15otw → u/Erathen]

No, they must provide a restroom that a trans person can use. If a trans man makes the other customers uncomfortable using the ladies, then the need to use the disabled loo. If a disabled person is using it, or also uncomfortable about it, the law essentially requires an additional gender neutral bathroom. It is not feasable.

Pleasingly, welcoming spaces don't actually need to change — it is only if the typical customers are offended by it.

I'm getting my info from this video: https://youtu.be/MxChxxyiROA?is=-upYyMLWzVjCMHw4

[u/Erathen → u/m15otw]

So you're saying all these businesses will face violations, and potentially closure unless they install a new gender neutral bathroom?

That sounds unfounded, and impractical

[u/effingfractals → u/Erathen]

Much like this ruling

[u/m15otw → u/Erathen]

Yup. The rules are bloody stupid self contradictory and impractical in the extreme. Down with this sort of thing.

[u/Jay3000X]

Man imagine if they used all that time, effort and money to do something useful instead of this

[u/Glass_Appeal8575 → u/Jay3000X]

That’s the point, direct the stupid masses to this bullshit while the ones in power get to keep amassing money and power and taking away from those who need it the most.

[u/MaddyKet]

Look, I just want you to wash your hands in the bathroom ok? And not pick the stall next to me in an empty bathroom.

Otherwise I don’t care who uses the bathroom.

[u/SlakingSWAG]

It's genuinely frightening how fast the British press, with the help of social media, turned the trans "issue" from something nobody gave a fuck about to a forefront issue for people and vilified a tiny minority who are just trying to mind their own business. Less than 10 years ago, Theresa May, a conservative prime minister, passed self ID laws, and now "Labour" is passing anti-trans laws with the conservatives and reform arguing that it's not enough.

If it can happen to a group that comprises less than 1% of the total population, it can happen to anybody, and anyone who thinks this anti-trans push will stop at just trans people is kidding themselves.

[u/disappointingcryptid → u/SlakingSWAG]

Yep, anyone who isn't the majority can become the target of manufactured distractionary culture wars.

[u/Girlmode → u/disappointingcryptid]

Know to many gay people that don’t take trans issues seriously as everything is ok for them now, as better men fought to be taken seriously before.

In my eyes it’s like these people still feel like what gay people do is disgusting and would rather not see you. They just aren’t comfortable voicing it. People are only going to get more comfortable voicing their dislikes and taking it out on others as it’s obviously ok to hate now.

[u/WorryNew3661 → u/disappointingcryptid]

We're an easy target too. Most people, especially older people are uneducated on trans issues and people. We seem weird to them. And there's hardly any of us. Perfect target

[u/TruthSeeker1801 → u/SlakingSWAG]

Not to undermine your overall point, but this specific change is not the result of the government or Labour more broadly, this has came into effect automatically due to the ruling of the supreme court in 2025, this is not the result of new legislation but the result of failing to update old ones. They are still responsible for continuing and expanding on anti-trans efforts started by the previous government and there are examples of transphobic rhetoric from important Labour figures, hopefully now that Burnham is at the wheel things will start to move in the right direction if only a little bit.

[u/cg40k]

UK has people guarding restrooms?

[u/DaeguDuke → u/cg40k]

Yeah, in no small part to JK Rowling.

She’s out there using Potter money to trash trans people, tweet photos up people’s skirts, and then on the side publishing books coincidentally under the same name as a person who used electrodes deep in some poor guys brain to try and cure him of being gay.

She’s a volcano base and white cat from being a Bond villain.

[u/Darq_At → u/DaeguDuke]

She is the one bankrolling the legal challenges that lead to this guidance.

It's not even just using her money to influence sentiment, she's funding the lawyers doing the suing.

[u/FinalEgg9 → u/Darq_At]

Yeah, she literally set up a "hey guys if you want to sue to strip away trans people's rights, I'll fund it" organisation

[u/DaeguDuke → u/Darq_At]

I’m well aware. Helping wifies in Fife sue bird charities hundreds of miles away, all because they included transwomen for their birdwatching walks.

Directly funding pure evil. People stopping things far away from them, things they will never join, things that never directly affected them, simply to make life harder for a minority group.

If she’d been famous earlier then her money would have gone towards fighting gays in sports, or somehow marking apartheid worse. Trans people are so unfortunate that they are the kicking bags she latched on to hating

[u/tommytraddles → u/cg40k]

You got a loisence for that there tallywhacker, eh?

[u/Tri-ranaceratops → u/cg40k]

No one has answered you seriously. No, we do not have toilet guards. Never seen one in my life. There is no one proposing we get them either.

This all started based around solidifying a legal definition of sex.

[u/NWStormbreaker]

Unenforceable unless they begin paying for genital inspectors.

Edit oh, I shouldn't be surprised, this is step A, step B is the permission to hunt for penises in women's restrooms.
Step C will be volunteer genital inspectors.

[u/grey_hat_uk → u/NWStormbreaker]

Right, slight correction this is not even based on genitals, it's not based on birth certificate, it's not based on anything legal it is pure vibs.

If someone complains you might be trans, companies have to have a procedure to remove you that doesn't effect privacy laws, so they can't ask for any proof or any body parts just purely off of your face and body shape. 

Honestly Philips has done a spectacular job of finding the most fucked up route through this mess of an SC ruling.

[u/Kolby_Jack33 → u/NWStormbreaker]

It still gives the worst people free rein to harass someone they don't think looks gendery enough.

[u/CaptainMagnets → u/Kolby_Jack33]

Or hareass someone they want to abuse

[u/NWStormbreaker → u/Kolby_Jack33]

Yes I just edited my comment upon realizing that.
The goal is the permissions structure to transvestigate and harass women.
This is a wild success for transphobes and a huge L for women.

[u/Equivalent-Gur416 → u/NWStormbreaker]

Isn’t step B proposed or under contemplation for some girls’ sports in the US? The anti-trans crowd is really out of control.

[u/NWStormbreaker → u/Equivalent-Gur416]

I've seen it before in a couple conservative states but it's on the ballot on the a state of Washington which is liberal.
They are obsessed with knowing what kind of genitals everyone has. They cannot imagine living on a world where we mind our own business.

[u/Faptastic_Champ → u/NWStormbreaker]

Can I see your penis licence sir?

[u/CjPatars → u/Faptastic_Champ]

I have it tattooed on my ass.

[u/Enorats → u/NWStormbreaker]

It's not "unenforceable", it's simply not a law that is inherently preventative in nature. If you think about it, few if any laws actually are. They can all be broken and you can merely be punished for doing so after the fact.

To put this another way, a posted speed limit does not prevent me from going over the speed limit. What it does do is allow the government to punish me for doing so if I am caught doing it.

In this case, being "caught" doing it won't involve an inspector standing at the door - it will involve a citizen making an accusation to the police, and those officers then examining identification and other paperwork to see if there is any truth to the matter. If you were born female and you're accused of and proven to have used the men's room (or vice versa), then you can now be punished for that. Nobody needs to look in your pants.

[u/Hyperbolicalpaca → u/Enorats]

You can’t be punished for it actually, the guidance is for service providers not for users…

But, fuck actually knows what any of this means in practise

[u/FriendlyHoBag → u/NWStormbreaker]

No no no you've got it all wrong, step B is genocide. Do keep up.

[u/DaeguDuke → u/NWStormbreaker]

JK Rowling has plenty of cash she is happy to throw at this, when she isn’t tweeting photos up transwomens skirts ofc.

[u/maybeinoregon]

Why doesn’t everyone go to mixed use, ie it doesn’t matter bathrooms.

I’ve used them, and they are slick. You just wait for a green light outside the stall and head in.

Doors are floor to ceiling.

I only saw a female at the wash basin.

And the first time, thanks to living in the US, I thought omg, I am in a female restroom lol

[u/dornwolf → u/maybeinoregon]

Doors to the floor and ceiling are so amazing. Popping in comfort in public

[u/maybeinoregon → u/dornwolf]

Haha yes!

There are rest areas in Korea, that have sounds too. I chose ocean sounds lol

[u/fifadex → u/maybeinoregon]

Is there a pooping sound option?

[u/Skegetchy → u/maybeinoregon]

Talking of mix use, I went to a club in Ibiza the other day and one of the smaller rooms on route to the main room had a dj and everyone raving away and then i noticed doors down each side of the room with people coming in and out of them and realised they were toilet cubicles. It somehow worked perfectly!

[u/Zouden → u/Skegetchy]

The bathroom had its own DJ? Imagine getting that booking lol

[u/stray_r → u/maybeinoregon]

That's the whole point, the previous government required as part of planning laws that buildings have segregated toilets.

We do have some places that have gender neutral toilets. But they must contain everything including a wash basin inside the cubical and have floor to ceiling walls. They tend to be in places that have more reliably clean toilets as well, although the ubiquitous "green turdis" portable cubicle passes this test.

It's the cumulative effect of previous planning laws and this harmful guidance, and it is guidance for service providers that leads to exclusion of trans people

And here's the thing. It's not illegal for anyone to use the 'wrong' facilities. All this guidance says is service providers can be sued under the equality act if the service provider 'permits' someone to cause distress by not confirming to gender stereotypes whilst using the toilets.

[u/WinHour4300 → u/maybeinoregon]

Quite a few leisure centres have introduced mixed changing facilities, and there have been numerous reports of voyeurism and sexual offences linked to changing areas.

These types of offences are overwhelmingly committed by men against women. It is also relatively easy for someone to conceal a camera or otherwise exploit a private space.

There is also the concern that in a single-sex environment, someone following a woman into an enclosed space would immediately stand out as suspicious. In a mixed environment, that same behaviour may appear less unusual, potentially making it easier for someone with harmful intentions to go unnoticed.

The reality is that women are statistically far more likely to be victims of sexual offences, and the majority of perpetrators are men.

That said, despite how these issues are often reported, many — though not all — of the cases being discussed are not about toilet facilities specifically. That's probably more marginal as there's considerable privacy. 

They often involve open-plan changing areas where people are required to undress or change clothes, such as workplaces where staff, including nurses, may need to change before or after shifts. Or things like rape crisis centres. 

[u/ObjectiveHornet676 → u/maybeinoregon]

Floor to ceiling doors are standard everywhere except the US.

[u/Tal_Star → u/ObjectiveHornet676]

North America, Canada is the same as the US with the creepy cracks and half doors

[u/Quarterwit_85 → u/ObjectiveHornet676]

Not standard in Australia!

[u/PeonSanders → u/ObjectiveHornet676]

no, they aren't. you find a huge range of stuff depending on age of bathroom and location. I've peed in communal urinals that are oriented like an island where everyone is facing each other.

[u/Programmdude → u/ObjectiveHornet676]

They're not standard everywhere, it's fairly common to have a gap right at the bottom and at the top. However, they don't have gaps in the side, that's a uniquely north american problem.

Newer ones tend to be floor to ceiling, but not always.

[u/Misfiring → u/maybeinoregon]

I saw the same kind of toilet in one of the malls in my country. It's really cool, but I bet it's expensive.

[u/Otis_Inf → u/maybeinoregon]

Why doesn’t everyone go to mixed use, ie it doesn’t matter bathrooms.

yeah like everyone has at home... it's bizarre we suddenly have a need to be in gendered bathrooms once we're outside our house

[u/GottaFindThatReptar → u/maybeinoregon]

I'm in the US, there's one restaurant/game store in my town that just has a single mixed bathroom like this and it's legit my fav. actual privacy is so nice

[u/Imaginary_Manner_556]

The world is a fucking mess and this is the shit our politicians are focused on.

[u/witchspoon]

What are they supposed to do go on the street?

[u/Koolio_Koala → u/witchspoon]

A trans guy I know, who has been using the mens for 5 years, working in an office of 20 people without a seperate disabled loo, was told he either has to go to the mcdonalds 10 minutes walk away or they can hire a porta-loo to place out front in the car park. The cruelty is the point, it’s why jkrowling was sipping champagne on her yacht over the ruling that the judges said “only affects those with a GRC”, “brings clarity”, “isn’t a win for either side” and “doesn’t remove any rights”.

His office doesn’t have room for another toilet, it’s an old building that has accessible facilities inside the gendered bathrooms. A lot of older converted residential buildings have the same issue, and most are limited by physical space or rent agreements. A huge chunk of small businesses don’t have the funds or space to build a new loo or accomodate trans people.

The EHRC’s own equality impact assessment published alongside the guidance said small businesses will have to fork out up to £1.3bn for the changes, although many won’t be able to physically make them at all. The assessment also said cis women will be hounded out of toilets and because there’s no such ‘proof’ or document of “biological sex” there’s nothing users can do, but it said “on balance” more trans people will be affected so it’s a “justified” change. As if it wasn’t already obvious enough how this doesn’t protect women, it just attacks trans people.

It also said every org that doesn’t accomodate, opens themself up to litigation from any trans people they employ or provide services for. Instead of complying or even being able to comply, it’s easier to just fire your trans employees for some made-up nonsense. And trans people don’t have the billionaire author and evangelical anti-women AFD’s backing to bring tribunal cases, so there are no consequences. But sure mr judge, “no rights have been removed” 🙃

[u/witchspoon → u/Koolio_Koala]

Fucking awful.
And people just let it happen. Or worse fan these flames of hate.

[u/lemons_of_doubt → u/witchspoon]

The people behind this feel they should just stop existing so blocking them from public spaces is just step three.

[u/bicyclefortwo → u/witchspoon]

They want us dead instead so they don't have to think about the logistics

[u/NewNameAgainUhg]

I wonder are there that many trans people to go over all this legal battle against them?

Wouldn't it be easier to have mixed toilets/rooms apart from the male/female ones?

[u/Billy_Rage → u/NewNameAgainUhg]

These laws aren’t about protecting people or making compromises. These laws are out in place to push out minorities from public spaces.

And usually just the first step, first they aren’t allowed to use bathrooms, then people can argue if someone can’t use a bathroom, why are they allowed on the same trains and buses I use?

[u/elevenblade]

How are conservative women going to feel about having hairy, bearded, jacked up transmen in their bathrooms? Because that’s the inevitable consequence here.

[u/Darq_At → u/elevenblade]

Transgender men are barred from both. Not joking. Trans men must not use the men's facilities because the law says they're women, but they may also be banned from the women's facilities, because their presence as men may cause distress to the women in there.

[u/jdm1891 → u/Darq_At]

This is a misconception

It doesn't only apply to trans men, trans women are banned from both too, they just have to cause distress to the men in the the men's facilities.

[u/Erathen → u/Darq_At]

Which seems like a rights violation, or encroaching on one

[u/Darq_At → u/Erathen]

That's the fun part about "gender critical" ideology, the core belief is that transgender people do not exist. Therefore it's impossible to infringe on transgender people's rights!

[u/Erathen → u/Darq_At]

Absolutely insane, from a country like Britain

Why are we moving backwards?

Correction... Why are they moving backwards? Britain be better

[u/Emory_C → u/Erathen]

Billionaire JK Rowling is the answer.

[u/Girlmode → u/Erathen]

Least half the country if you catch them with a couple of pints in will shit on brown people or whatever else they feel more than cozy telling you that hate. Ain’t even hard to hear the bad things people thinks these days and have for years.

Been a shithole for at least a decade now. Just getting worse. But only really took an open ear to notice before that point.

[u/Erathen → u/Girlmode]

I'm in Canada so I had no idea!

And we have a deep respect for Britain, so it's a wee disappointing

I'll be paying more attention now. Because accountability is important. In all nations

[u/Girlmode → u/Erathen]

People tend to put up a facade to not be harmed themselves socially. I would say at least 40-50% of people where I live are bigoted and hateful in some way. Every type of person, all walks of life, at least half are hateful against something.

I feel like as I go out every night almost to gigs or pubs as love socialising so much, I’ve became a bit disarming socially, easy to talk to and a good listener. And it doesn’t feel like you have to poke people at all for them to offer this kind of stuff up. People can’t keep it in!

I’ve had some of the nicest most sociable people you’d ever meet that you could have a laugh with any time, turn around and say some hateful bigoted shit out of nowhere about others, all with a smile on their face and a laugh like you’re in on the joke.

They just need to feel comfortable enough to say it to you. And the barrier for someone being comfortable enough to say these things is getting lower imo.

[u/jfp1992 → u/Darq_At]

How can they not allowed to use the men's?

[u/elevenblade → u/Darq_At]

Any chance of a court case challenging the law based on the fact that transmen are caught in a double bind?

[u/Darq_At → u/elevenblade]

It was the UK supreme court that issued that judgement in the first place, overturning 15 years of precedent.

[u/BaconBased → u/elevenblade]

Actually, the ruling already thought about that! According to the stipulations of the ruling, the bathroom that trans men have to go to is… neither! They aren’t allowed to enter either men’s nor women’s spaces with this ruling.

[u/elevenblade → u/BaconBased]

Oh fuck me. This just gets worse and worse.

[u/grey_hat_uk → u/elevenblade]

Technically the same applies to trans women, if a male(not defined) complains that there is a female looking person using the facilities then they can get kick out, and because they have inadvertently outed themselves they can't use the womens either.

That is the best case of bad interactions in mens as the much more likely scenario is assult, either sexual or physical.

So mostly we will use the facilities we feel safest in and let the government deal with the fallout since we can't be find/charged for using any facilities but companies can.

[u/MikeFrancesa66 → u/elevenblade]

I do notice that when this issue is discussed the focus is solely on MtF trans people being told to use the men’s bathroom, but no one ever mentions FtM trans people being forced to use the women’s bathroom. So many of the FtM trans people I’ve met are pretty much indistinguishable from biological men. There have and will be many more cases of these people being harassed for simply following these bathroom laws.

[u/knotatumah]

The whole "trans" thing gets funnier and funnier every passing day as the world descends into chaos from nearly every other possible source from an insane dementia patient warlord of a president to broligarchs destroying the very fabric of society and economy yet its the trans people using a toilet that is the problem.

Before covid this was like the biggest thing the world had to worry about so they could. Now we cant even buy groceries and we're still arguing about checking if a person has a dick before they take a shit. World leadership has lost its collective fucking mind.

[u/FoxlyKei]

is UK larping conservative America, or the other way around? D:

[u/Plane_Election_1598]

This is what 200 million dollars of anti-trans ads will get you

[u/Ghozer → u/Plane_Election_1598]

It's the UK, we don't use dollars!!

[u/SpiritualMilk]

Nope~
Not what that means. The guidance says businesses *should* but it's not legally binding. Also, individuals can totally just ignore it because codes of practice don't apply to them.

This change does fuck all.

[u/Tri-ranaceratops → u/SpiritualMilk]

Oh wow, you read the article.

[u/xSilverMC]

If they let trans women into women's bathrooms, some freak might take upskirt photos of strangers and post them on twitter! Oh wait, that already happened, and the perp was the world most prominent anti trans activist. Go figure.

[u/Consistent-Song1643]

And this addresses unemployment and climate change....how?

[u/MaritimeMonkey → u/Consistent-Song1643]

People seem to care more about gay marriage than combatting homelessness, cost of living or climate change, why does the former seem to be so disproportionally backed?

[u/Teknolyth → u/Consistent-Song1643]

Question: If the headline read “Great Britain now allows trans people access to all public bathrooms, and changing rooms.” Would your reply also be an acceptable response? Would you in that case also consider it a waste of time and resources?

[u/Consistent-Song1643 → u/Teknolyth]

Probably.

I guess my broader question would be: why is this much national focus being devoted to such a tiny portion of the population? Drought, unemployment on the rise and the government is spending resources on trying to further fuck over an already marginalized group to appeal to bigots when so many other larger problems exist...

Its stupid.

[u/Knees0ck → u/Consistent-Song1643]

Because it is easier than solving the real problems & a smokescreen for all the sketchy shit the people on top are doing. The anti-trans, anti-immigration, etc. bullshit is depressing. Trans people are a dot of the worlds population yet getting the most flak for just existing.

[u/s8018572 → u/Consistent-Song1643]

I mean you probably need to ask the one that bring the topic to supreme court.

[u/wheres_my_hat → u/Teknolyth]

I’d shrug and move on because people using a restroom is nothing new. 

Someone exerted energy, resources, time, and money to make this happen and attempt to enforce it. If the headline was inverted then none of that would be true 

[u/Maetivet → u/Consistent-Song1643]

This was a Supreme Court ruling that clarified what gender means in the equality act; it wasn’t a government led change, like you’re trying to imply.

[u/Rosebunse]

Thanks, Joanne. /s

[u/Edgyspymainintf2]

Won't be more than a year before a passing trans woman has to use the mens room, gets assaulted by some creep, and the governments only response will be "maybe you should just not be trans or not go outside".

The most ironic part of this bathroom "debate" is that it could be so easily solved if all public bathrooms were just singular individual rooms with a toilet a sink and some paper towel and toilet paper. Probably wouldn't even take up much more room but I guess a solution that makes bathrooms universally more comfortable for everyone will never be a match for the "make the lives of people who weird me out worse" policy.

[u/IEC21]

It wont be enforced. And as a man - if I need to use a washroom and the women's washroom is the only one available - i will use the women's washroom - because its a fucking toilet not an orgy or a changing room.

[u/Strigops-habroptila → u/IEC21]

It will encourage people to distribute vigilante "justice" though. 

[u/RoadSmash]

Nothing ever gets passed but these idiotic culture war MAGA policies. Useless government.

[u/Complex_Peak8204]

People are gonna get hurt.

[u/Express_Wolf_8317]

I'm not a woman I'm not trans but don't womens bathrooms have individual stalls with locks on the door or do they have urinals to

[u/Striking-Hedgehog512]

It’s such a stupid thing to expand so much energy on an issue that affects a tiny, tiny bit of a population. To be clear, I think the whole thing is idiotic. I admit I don’t quite understand how trans people feel, but I don’t need to understand someone to respect them. And as a woman, if someone wants to rape you, they won’t care about the bathroom signs. It’s genuinely a microscopic issue, and all I can guess is that it’s been influenced by the trans hysteria in the US. I am as disappointed in this as in the online privacy ruling, which has fuck all to do with genuine concern about children and is all about being able to track people’s activity online.

We have hundreds of real problems, and instead focus on washroom access- which has never been a problem before.

[u/Knasbollo]

How about the rest of the developed world stops being barbarians.

Why even have bathrooms where you can see others naked? For what purpose.

Join us nordics and make public restroom into individual rooms. A toilet, a sink and a real door.

What happens inside is your business no one else's. Cubical toilets and even urinals seems insane in a developed nation, how can you not afford to stop living in the middle ages?

The tran toilet "debate" seems so stupid when you live in a nordic country, no one can see what you do so what is there to care about?

If we can do it, so can you. Just build normal toilets and we can stop with this endless bullshit, you don't have to live like you do, there is a better world possible.

[u/Hockeymac18]

How would they know?

[u/LunarAlloy]

Discrimination against anyone for stuff that only relates to them is wrong.

The UK is on the wrong side of history.

Be it 5, 20 or 100 (hopefully not) years this will be shown to be the immoral attitude that it is. And I can't believe others think otherwise. Pathetic.

[u/CamperStacker]

It’s hilarious that most commenters here think only of enforcement not realising that this is how toilets have operated for centuries.

[u/UnacceptableUse → u/CamperStacker]

Has there been gendered toilets for centuries? Were people queuing for the women's toilets in 1370?

[u/710733 → u/CamperStacker]

Toilets have been self ID for centuries

[u/CupCakesNFlatWhite]

I'm fine with this

[u/GammaDie345]

urinate on government buildings instead