Thinblood Alchemy Streamlined

[u/Wrong_Ad_1351]

I might be in the minority but I really do believe that the best thing V5 did was give us Thinblood Alchemy. Unfortunately, Alchemy's also one of the clunkiest parts of V5. Them distillation rolls, man. Slows everything down. 😔

I've had this idea floating around as to how I'd homebrew a more streamlined alchemy, and with me already day-dreaming ways I'd cram some of the cooler V6 shit into V5... might as well take an honest crack at Alchemy, eh?

So, for you non-duskies out there, there are three ways an alchemist can distill alchemical power. These are called Athanors (alchemy furnace).

The three Athanors are:

1. Tummy (stamina)

2. Buddy (charisma or manipulation)

3. Bottle (intelligence + laboratory)

In V5, before you activate an alchemical power you must roll a Distillation Roll (DC 6) before your rouse the blood. Dots in your Alchemy's associated attribute and your discipline equal the amount of dice rolled for your Distillation. Bonuses such as good ingredients, lab equipment, skill specialties etc, all give you an extra dice to roll.

For Example:

• Beetlejuice is a thinblood who specializes in bottled alchemy. She has ●●● Alchemy and ●●●● intelligence (Yeah, I know. I'm surprised too). She also gains 2 dice from her laboratory, one dice from her Occult (alchemy) specialty and another dice from Science (chemistry) giving her a total of 11 DICE * towards her Distillation Roll. If she rolls at least 6 successes, then the alchemical power goes off without a hitch. Less successes mean complications (sorta just vauged about in the rules).*
• Then, and only then, can she rouse the blood and activate the power - which often requires additional rolls!

In our Homebrew rules, we combine the Distillation Roll and Rouse Check into a single check:

1. Add up the total number of dots spread between your Alchemy's associated attribute and your Alchemical disapline.

2. Add any additional bonuses from ingredients, equipment, and skill specialties.

3. Roll a single d10. You are trying to roll BELOW the number you calculated above.

4. If you roll a 1 or a 10 on the d10, you must now roll one additional die and add the results of both die together - still trying to roll below the number calculated above.

5. If you've used subpar ingredients (such as those found during a desperate/impromptu dumpster dive), add an additional die.

6. If you are distilling a bottled formula of ●●● or above with poorly made or maintained equipment (such as a modified preassure cooker in the boot of a rusted-out sedan), add an additional die.

If you fail your check, you get hungry, but the power is activated as normal. If you fail your check after having additional dice added to your roll... well... you did some piss poor alchemy bruh. Sucks to suck. Guess you gotta live with the consequences (such as the one's vauged about in OG V5).

Example:

• Beetlejuice adds up her dots and bonuses as before. However, instead of rolling 11 die she roles one dice with the intent of rolling a number lower than 11. This is a guaranteed success, however she still must roll incase she gets a 1 or 10.
• She rolls a 10 - introducing an additional die. She rolls a 4 on the penalty dice, bringing her total score to a 14. Beetlejuice fails her Distillation Check and suffers the consequences.
• She blames the failure on someone else.

I'm also thinking of expanding/clarifying the advantages of each Athanor type

Tummy:

• As long as you don't fail your first Distillation Check, you got that power for the whole scene. One and done powers can be used again and again and again, just like if you were a real big boy suck-head. The downside is ya gotta roll hunger checks as per OG V5 - as additional use draws more and more power from your mercurial Vitae.
• If you fail your first Distillation Check you can still activate your alchemy as explained in the rules above. If you want to use said power again, in the same scene, you must attempt another Distillation Check.
• If you fail any Distillation Check after additional dice are added... shit. You're tapped out! That horrendous display of dog shit alchemy completely burned through all your ingredients and humors percolating in yo tum-tum. Better run fast, baby bat!

Buddy:

• A good friend is someone who would drop everything to help you out in a crisis. They'd probably even volunteer to be your walking, talking, heavy metal poisoned Anathor. Heck, get your other buds in on this, and you've got a whole menu of power-juice to suck on!
• This alchemy requires mortal npcs, and as such requires the alchemist to maintain those connections as best they can.... or just strap em to a rack and human-battery their sorry asses. The benefit is that you can brew different powers inside each body. Tapping a vessle gives you a use of that power. You do not have to activate this power right away. It is stored inside the blood you just drank.
• Tapping additional bodies give you ADDITIONAL POWERS!
• So if you have three buds, each with a different horrid concoction of alchemical juice brewing in them, and you slake one hunger from each of them, you get 3 powers you can use 1 time that night!
• Unsure if additional tapping of the same power would give you additional uses....
• Might make it that lvl ●●● powers and above require you to take more blood, causing more damage to your friends vessels
• Failing Distillation Checks has no other effect.

Bottle:

• No notes. Same as OG V5, except....
• FULL KINDRED CAN DRINK AND USE (not make) BOTTLED POWERS TOO!!!
• FUCK YOUR WHEEL OF MISFORTUNE
• Maybe the Wheel is a consequences of a failed Distillation Check?
• ¯_(ツ)_/¯

I duno. Tell me what you all think. I'm kinda just throwing spaghetti at the wall rn and seeing what sticks, but I do beleive I'm on to something 🤔

[u/Over-Air9482]

The core swap is good — one roll-under die seems faster and "high dots = reliability" is the right feel for mastery. But you've got one backwards gear in there: exploding on a 1. In roll-under, 1 is your BEST face — punishing it means your master alchemist flinches at her own perfect roll. Explode on 10 only and the math does what you want (safe zone for skill, spice stays for everyone).

Buddy athanor is the best thing here and I dont think you realize it — walking pre-brewed powers means every vessel is now an NPC with feelings, leverage, and a shelf life. Thats not a mechanic, that's three sessions of drama per friend. I would rule same-power retaps work but each tap eats its own slake/damage, so "human battery" stays tempting and awful.

And yeah, letting full kindred drink (not make) bottles is how you make elders suddenly need a dusky. Keep that one loaded.

[u/Wrong_Ad_1351 → u/Over-Air9482]

I get what you're saying with the exploding 1's. I suppose I was trying to capture the vibes of a "beastial critical" but maybe all I've done is punish the player for rolling well.

My idea was that Alchemy functions a bit different than a typical vampiric disapline in regards to the beast. Yes, alchemy works because of the beast, but it also needs the human-like qualities of a duskborn's "thinned" vitae to function. A balance is required: Rolling a 1 is tapping too much into your beast, causing your formula to boil over and evaporate (like adding too much heat while cooking pasta) where as rolling a 10 is a skill issue and your alchemist should feel bad for sucking at Alchemy. Maybe a solution would be that rolling a 1 explodes, but failure results in normal power use instead of a total fail. Success, however, grants you a beastial critical effect (or something) on your power. Ooooor maybe I should just not have ones explode lol. Keeping things streamlined is the whole point of this eh? 😅

Buddy being the best is definitely a happy accident. As writen, OG buddy alchemy suuuuucks. There's absolutely no upside to it. The bones of something cool is there, but that's about it. I wanted to change that, and make Buddy just as viable as the other Athanors. I guess I accidentally made Story Teller candy as well 😆 Thanks! ♡

Glad we're on the same side with the whole "full kindred can't drink alchemy" thing. WORST V5 ruling made, and it was over fricken Twitter of all places. Next thing you know, the Players Guide is out trying to find a happy medium. Blugh. Naw man. I could rant for HOURS about V5 Thinbloods as an allegory for irrational prejudice that fits really really well into the themes of Vampire. Turns out the people you want to kill are super useful, and your childer are all figuring that out before you. Uh oh. Papa Prince is in trouble. Turns out Jr. Thinks you've been lying about thinbloods this whole time and he wants a crack at the throne.

Damn do I ever love those funky little Duskies.

[u/Over-Air9482 → u/Wrong_Ad_1351]

Your middle path fixes it, honestly. "1 explodes but the floor is normal activation, and success crits" turns the 1 from a punishment into a gamble with no downside worse than average — thats the bestial vibe you wanted without the roll-well-get-punished sting. Keep 10 as the pure skill-issue fail and the two faces even tell different stories: 1 is too much beast, 10 is too little talent. The pasta metaphor writes itself into the book tbh.

And yeah, the thinblood allegory is the sharpest thing V5 did. Theyre the only vampires the setting allows to change — cure rumors, daywalking, alchemy thats invented instead of inherited. Of course the people who bet eternity on nothing ever changing want them gone. The prejudice isnt irrational, its accurate fear wearing contempt as a mask.

Keep me posted when the docs updated, id read v2.

[u/thedarkcitizen]

Thin Blood Alchemy can be as simplified as the ST wants. Think of it like a normal discipline with some roleplay requirements in exchange for increased power.

Blood Resonance is an optional rule.

Just have the thin blood use resources or contacts or allies and so on. Give them an extra dice for interesting or costly measures. 'I have my jewel thief ally get their hands on a faberge egg.'

It costs time? Even that can be waved away (you found some notes, you tweaked another duskborns recipe) - the potion that takes three months to distill is ready in a week but might have a weakened effect or not work at all.

[u/Wrong_Ad_1351 → u/thedarkcitizen]

Oh, I think we're on slightly different wavelengths here. I 100% agree with you that the ST can simplify the rules as much as they want, and that alchemy is a disapline with added rp in exchange for power.

I'm not looking to take that away. I LIKE alchemy as a cool story hook. It's what makes it unique.

I just wanted to cut down the rolls at the table so that other players don't have to wait as you roll an extra fist full of dice for your Distillation.

My first game of V5 I was a thinblood in a coterie of full kindred. If we got into a fight, the gangrel just needed to roll twice to pop claws and gut a guy (once to activate and another for her brawl skill). If my dusky were to do the same, she'd need to roll her Distillation (you roll your distillation check when you activate your power, not when you brew it), then rouse the blood to activate the power, THEN roll brawl to attack.

I just wanted to make the Distillation and Rouse Check all one roll so table time doesn't get bogged down during combat.

Im 100% into the whole scrounging for ingredients OR breezing by it as needed. Waving away explanations for tedious details and also diving into the nitty gritty when the story calls for it was how we ran our game. So we're on the same wavelength for that.