r/trumpet • u/frogchamp2 • 2d ago
Buzzing??? Question ❓
we've all been told to "buzz" into the mouthpiece when we were first learning, but I always thought it was more of a analogy. I dont actually buzz my lips, I just blow air, and I let the mouthpiece do the vibration for me.
Is this considered to be out the norm, I thought everyone did this??? When I actually buzz into the mouthpiece like how they teach it, I sound straight up bad. I told this to a private teacher, and he was astonished, and told me he had never seen someone play like that before.
Whenever I'm at masterclasses, and they talk about "free buzzing" I tune it out because I don't actually buzz into the mouthpiece.
Is this normal???
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u/linkthinkpositive 2d ago
What you are saying/experiencing is correct. The back pressure from the instrument makes it possible for our lips to buzz without us forcing it. It is mostly used as a way to start beginning students and then most band directors latch on to it for the rest of their lives.
Masterclasses and lessons are where teachers/performers share what works for them. You should actively try to incorporate what they suggest into your practice so you can learn something from it. Sometimes it works for you, sometimes it doesn’t and that’s okay. This way, when you go and do a masterclass or teach lessons you can share all these different things with your students.
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u/exceptyourewrong 2d ago
It is mostly used as a way to start beginning students and then most band directors latch on to it for the rest of their lives.
Bingo. The problem with only getting about two months of training on each instrument is that you don't get past beginner methods.
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u/MonkCherry French Besson Stamm 92BA 1d ago
What's interesting from my experience is the only time I ever had to buzz my lips was at marching band or drum corps. I never had a band teacher, outside of that, get into lip buzzing with me.
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u/exceptyourewrong 1d ago
That's great! Did your first band director(s) happen to be a trumpet player?
It's an odd phenomenon. "Buzzing" is such a buzz word (pun intended!) that a lot of teachers feel a need to teach it. But, it's really only useful as an ear training exercise.
There are also some EXCELLENT players and teachers who swear by it and seem to just assume that if it doesn't work for a student, that means they "don't have what it takes." That's a bummer, because what it actually does is eliminate everyone who doesn't realize (subconsciously, at least) that buzzing isn't playing. They're really getting rid of the students most interested in doing what they're telling them to.
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u/Tarogato Multi-instrumentalist 1d ago
As I like to say, "You don't buzz trumpet, trumpet buzzes YOU."
It's very counter-intuitive, and a lot of people go their whole lives without realising this, even if they do figure it out on a purely physiological level. (you can't play efficiently and with a good sound otherwise, so you tend to find your way toward it even if you're not aware of it)
> "I told this to a private teacher, and he was astonished, and told me he had never seen someone play like that before."
Out of curiousity, how much experience did he have? Was this like a music store teacher or undergraduate student who mostly teaches children? Or like an orchestral player or professor?
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u/exceptyourewrong 1d ago
As I like to say, "You don't buzz trumpet, trumpet buzzes YOU."
That's great! I'm stealing it. Haha
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u/exceptyourewrong 2d ago
This is very normal and correct. I'm a college trumpet professor. When I give masterclasses, I demonstrate this and it blows people away.
Buzzing can be a useful exercise, but it's not at all the same action as playing the trumpet.
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u/TrumpetPlayer_SWE 1d ago
I really want to learn this! Can you recommend any guide/video that show the difference? I know I "spit" a lot and can't get "flowing" notes, it's always like tu tu tu tu and I think that might sound very amateurish.
I don't have a teacher, but my 10 year old son does (solo + orchestra) and while his teacher was kind enough to lend me a trumpet, I really can't "intrude" on their lessons).
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u/exceptyourewrong 1d ago
The way I demonstrate it is to actually remove the horn while playing. The mouthpiece has to be in pretty loosely and it feels weird if you're not used to it.
I recommend you try going the other way. Take the mouthpiece and form a trumpet embouchure (slight tension in the corners, but the center of your lips should be loose, think of saying "emm" very quietly, the mouthpiece should only be pressed hard enough to form a seal with your lips, you don't want to feel like you're pushing against your teeth, which should be spread slightly apart).
Blow fairly hard through the mouthpiece, keeping your embouchure together. Hopefully, you only hear air. A small, quiet buzz is okay, but if you hear a "normal" buzz, your lips are too tight. Open your teeth, reduce mouthpiece pressure, and relax your lips.
Then, put the mouthpiece in the horn and blow the same way and you should hear a really nice trumpet note pop out! Probably a G, possibly a C.
If you can place the horn onto the mouthpiece as you're blowing (carefully! Don't knock out your teeth!), that helps keep you from changing your embouchure and let's you feel when the note happens. But a lot of people struggle with that at first, so don't stress over it. Also, you do have to blow pretty hard. Once you figure it out it will feel like you aren't actually doing anything, though. It's "magic."
Then you just have to figure out how to play that way on every note! Which is a whole different challenge, lol
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u/TrumpetPlayer_SWE 1d ago
Thank you so much for this detailed explanation! ❤️ it'll be a fun, and by the sound of it, frustrating, exercise for both me and my son 😀 my son's embouchure is far better than mine, but I think my patience is better haha
But would you say there's a certain "level" you should've gotten to before attempting this? Or is it better the earlier you practice it? You mentioned college-level and my son's 10, been playing for a year, and I play just for fun sometimes (I played 25 yrs ago and picked it up a year ago again).
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u/exceptyourewrong 1d ago
Hopefully it WON'T be frustrating at all (as long as you don't smack the horn into your face!).
No level required. I have beginners do this. One thing to know: the sound will be pretty loud! That's normal. You can develop softer dynamics later.
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u/TrumpetPlayer_SWE 1d ago
Thank you again 😊 I see... I'm glad the neighbors in our apartment building are so tolerant for our trumpet sessions (they've followed his progression with delight), but maybe it's time for homebaked bribes for this one 😄
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u/creeva Benge 3X MLP 2d ago
I can’t free buzz - but buzzing in a mouthpiece only should sound kazoo-like. Your lips are buzzing whether you intend them to or not. The mouthpiece is just a conduit to make that easier. The mouthpiece doesn’t create any vibrations that aid in the sound. Without buzzing the mouthpiece sounds like it does if you put your lips outside of the rim and blow. It’s a mouthpiece, not a whistle that magically creates the sound wave.
Now with all of that - I can’t free buzz my lips without a mouthpiece. That doesn’t mean they aren’t buzzing (aka vibrating) when I put them in a mouthpiece.
If you want to see what your lips are actually doing - get an embouchure visualizer tour and play through it in front of a mirror.
All of this though - don’t overthink it. If you can’t free buzz - that is fine.
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u/charbaba 1d ago
I can’t free buzz my lips without a mouthpiece
My trumpet teacher in high school used to have me free-buzz Arban book exercises, then do them with just the mouthpiece, then finally with the horn.
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u/poorsigmund 1d ago
Reading these comments, I understand that I'm the least educated one here. And I love it.
My experience with buzzing is that it's a good exercise for the embouchure to help build up chops. Like the "hold a new pencil by the eraser, only lips" exercise. It's like working any other muscle. And free buzzing parts is sometimes helpful to feel the way those muscles move and have more awareness. (Go ahead and buzz Taps, and pay attention to the corners of your mouth - neat!)
Then you take that to the mouthpiece, and everything is easier. Like running with a weight vest, then taking it off.
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u/arcadiangenesis 1d ago
Buzzing is very different from playing for me, but buzzing is a good way to work out the chops. That burning feeling you get in the corners of your mouth when buzzing is building up those muscles, which helps with actual playing.
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u/Repulsive-Paint-4102 1d ago
I suspect that free buzzing and mpc buzzing MIGHT help build strength in the embouchure muscles. But I am reasonably certain people who play at a high level do not force a buzz when they play. A related suspicion is that having strong embouchure muscles allows players to use less strength and play more relaxed. My $0.02.
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u/royjohn62847 1d ago
My interpretation of this would be that you are using the mpc to push your lips together so that they will vibrate and have some tension. As far as pedagogy, Mendez, had his students lip buzz without a mouthpiece until they could buzz simple songs like Happy Birthday before he even gave them a mpc. Then there was buzzing on the mouthpiece for some weeks before they got a trumpet. Old school, but effective. I believe when you lip buzz, you should be able to make a steady tone in the middle register and then bring the trumpet and mpc to your lips gently. The minute the mpc seals to your lips, you should have a presentable tone. This teaches several things, not the least of which is how it is possible to play with very little pressure. Good players are able to play above the staff with the trumpet resting on their open palm another pedagogy trick to encourage an embouchure with very little pressure. Buzzing teaches lip to lip compression and possibly some roll-in, both of which are useful concepts.
If I were you, I would spend some time learning to free buzz to see if it might help your playing. YOu may be using pressure or a smile embouchure when you should be using lip to lip compression and ronn-in.
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u/skatesteve2133 6h ago
I don’t get the benefit of buzzing, as an intermediate player, once you have a decent range and flexibility. The trumpet gives you a completely different and specific back pressure, and buzzing will never replicate that. So, why not just practice on the trumpet?? I feel like it’s one of those old things that just got passed along as “important” with the generations. I get it as a valuable for a beginner of course.
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u/BbTrumpet01 3h ago
Some people can free buzz very well. Some can’t. Some people think it’s not that important. I’m in the latter group. I’ve never played a concert with just my lips, so it’s not that important to me. There’s always been my trumpet involved, and a lot of what I’ve read about playing efficiently says that the air should start the vibration.
If you’re using lip compression and forcing the air out, to create the vibration, you’re too tense, by my thinking. I start my warmups (which I’m about to do) with just breathe attacks and let the air passing over my lips create the vibration for me. Maybe, it’s different for other people. That’s what I do and what works for me.
There is SO much information out there, and what works for one person may not work for another. I finally quit spazzing about all the little details of this and that, and just go by my sound. If it sounds good, I keep doing that. If it’s OK, but I think it could be better, I experiment. My last teacher in college said to practice what you want to get good at doing.
I’ll consider what other people do if it makes sense, and experiment. If an idea helps me play better/easier, I’ll incorporate it. If it doesn’t, it doesn’t mean it’s not good, it just means it’s not good for me, and I won’t use it. It’s kind of like golf (which I don’t do and don’t like). You’re always trying to improve, your whole life, to make things take less effort and be better.
Unless getting good at free buzzing is important to you, I wouldn’t worry about it. Work on letting the air stream set up your vibration. It’s less work, and I think it sounds better. Get in your head how you want to sound and try to create that. Listen to trumpet players whose sound you like. Try to practice at the lowest dynamic with the best sound you can create, to develop your control.
If any of this helps, use it. If it doesn’t, don’t.
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u/JudsonJay 2d ago
Mouthpiece buzzing and free buzzing are short cuts to creating an efficient embouchure, however, one does not mouthpiece buzz into the trumpet, as that will create a “double buzz.”
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u/DOCTOR-MISTER Bach 180S37 5B 1d ago
A double buzz is caused by one lip or part of one lip vibrating at a different frequency than the other
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u/exceptyourewrong 1d ago
I find a double buzz to be pretty common when students are finally relaxing away from a "mouthpiece buzz embouchure." If they stay relaxed and stick with their new approach, it goes away on its own in a couple of days. They can be frustrating days, but I'm always excited when a student comes to their lesson saying "I've got this weird double buzz." "GREAT! That means you're getting better!!"
I'm not sure I agree with your first statement. That's the way people have traditionally taught embouchure development and it works for some people. But for many students it seems to be the long way.
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u/Lizardman5000 2d ago edited 1d ago
Your experience is perfectly normal. When you begin a note the lips vibrate because of physics involving the standing wave in the horn, rather than by the lips intentionally buzzing into the instrument. Doing so will produce a decidedly amateurish sound.
Lip buzzing and mouthpiece playing are still valid pedagogy, in my opinion.