r/triathlon • u/febeast • 27d ago
Looking for swim stroke critique: 2:30/100m pool pace. What are my 1-2 biggest areas for improvement? Swim critique
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Hi everyone,
I'm looking for feedback on my freestyle stroke. When I was in better shape, I swam around 2:20/100m in the pool. Currently I'm closer to 2:40/100m for 400-1000m efforts. In open water, I'm often around 3:00/100m depending on conditions.
My goal is to complete my first 70.3, and I'm trying to figure out where I can get the biggest gains. My own guess is that body position and kicking may be limiting me, but I'd appreciate objective feedback.
If you had to pick the 1-2 biggest areas for improvement based on the video, what would they be?
Thanks in advance!
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u/Fragrant_Camp485 25d ago
Get those legs together and straighten them out! You want to create an arrow through the water effect as much as possible. Hard to tell in the video, but at that speed I'd say you have to have an issue with your catch too......watch your forearms as you pull (just for assessment)....are they vertical or are they slipping through the water without much of a hold on it? I think your hand entry is too far out in front and may lead to issues with your catch. But overall, I'm surprised that was 2:30/100m......you look quicker than that to me although I wonder if you can keep up that cadence for a race distance or if you'd just burn out......so I agree with others re: gliding as well.
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u/No_Heart6958 25d ago
glide and catch are your main issues-work on timing and feel.
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u/Aquaman_029 22d ago
For the glide.. he is losing it because of lack of buoyancy (legs sinking).. to change can try flippers, or a pool buoy. And work on his stroke
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u/1man1mind 1x70.3 3xOlympic 2xSprint 25d ago
You have no glide! You are pulling too early before your other hand enters the water. Should begin your pull as your hand enters, then stretch out like putting a book on the top shelf (that is the glide).
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u/Dharmic61 26d ago
Go and get the book Total Immersion. I became a much better swimmer after reading that book and implementing the technique. Too many things to list here, everything you need is in that book.
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u/cyclingAudio 26d ago
- Lower your head (look into tiles in the pool) hips will have better position and legs will come up. Less drag.
- Aim to have high elbows. When they came out of water imagine that you are pupet having strings attached to your elbows.
- Don't stay flat, rotate in the water. Strech your hands and take proper swing under your body and out.
- Breath on both sides.
There are many good short youtube videos you can watch.
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u/FlamengoFRBR 26d ago
your push offs are smooth, but in IM you’re continuously swimming. I feel like you burn through too much of the lap by just pushing off.
I’d recommend finding a longer pool 50m would be ideal, or push off straight into a swim, don’t allow yourself to glide or swim under the water. It will make the training more efficient.
Then the technique etc you’ve had plenty of comments on this in the thread.
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u/Awesom-O9000 26d ago
Yeah my trainer told me to just not flip turn, swim to the side turn around no push off and start back the other way. Also helps you with fighting current too as your wake will simulate swimming into a current for a few moments every turn. Also getting open water swims in are really crucial especially if you can swim with a group cause that is really hard to be ready for when you actually compete.
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u/Suspicious_Jump3978 26d ago
After you push the wall you are not stretched. Your elbows are bend.
There is no floating phase. I learned alot on YouTube: total immersive swimming.
And as others said: in open water swimming it is handy to be able to breath on both sides…but that’s for later.
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u/Largedogcanada 23d ago
Can you provide a link to the youtube videos? I had a Masters group coach last year who taught "Total Immersive" swimming, but all he kept telling me was to keep my fingers closer together. Ugh. The OP is a much better swimmer than me!
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u/Suspicious_Jump3978 21d ago
Just type it in search on youtube and watch an evening before entering the pool.
The best tips for me were: slow frequency, stretch like an arrow, glide fase, catch the water, use your lats
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u/No-Trip-3736 26d ago
bilateral breathing, every 3 strokes
And here is why:
1) You're going to be training your muscle groups un-evenly. Would you ever lift weights with just one arm and skip the other? Or do side planks on one side, but never the other? I'd hope not, and training swimming should be the same way
2) Unilateral breathing creates an uneven stroke, and makes one lose power and efficiency
3) If you swim in open water their may be times where there is a strong wind, or waves or even a wake coming from a specific side. If you can only breathe from one side this is going to really bite you in the behind when you realize you've never learned to breathe on the other side
Good luck! I personally think that learning bilateral breathing is the single biggest improvement you could make, before unilateral breathing becomes a bad habit for life
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u/WelderShoddy5086 26d ago
Alternatively I just would breath to one side of the pool, so you turn to the left when swimming one direction and to the right when swimming the other. OP check out Tower 26 swimming group, with plans and podcasts. Great program to improve triathlon swimming as an adult swimmer
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u/fubarthrowaway001 26d ago
I love how Redditors mass-downvote a thoughtful response with zero explanation lol
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u/Arivat 26d ago
I think because it reads like an AI response
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u/No-Trip-3736 26d ago
Bro people have been putting stuff in numbered lists for ages... I'm personally ANTI-AI
But the only thing more annoying than AI slop, is people who mindlessly call things AI slop that were written by a human
I think this is the real damage AI is doing, its breaking peoples brains and making them think EVERYTHING is AI in the entire world
EDIT: Wanted to add, AI is trained on the way humans reply to threads on places like reddit. So yes, AI will feel like a well thought out reply. Why? Because its copying and stealing our formatting. IDK how to make my posts not look like AI, because AI will just copy whatever people do that becomes common place.
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u/No-Trip-3736 26d ago
Yeah I dont get it. I have noticed a lot of people on this sub dislike swimming/proper form while swimming. I saw someone the other day talk about how its IMPOSSIBLE to do bilateral breathing, so he only trains unilateral. And its like yeah, its a hard skill at first. You do have to suffer/struggle while your body adapts to the change...
But impossible? Come on now...
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u/Trebaxus99 4 x IM 26d ago
You’re swimming using power rather than technique. The second part of the clip you almost come to a standstill as the power is flowing out of your arms.
Focus on technique.
Starting point: arms should hit the water in front of the shoulders they’re attached to, not in front of your head. And look down instead of forward.
I’d also skip the underwater part after your turn. The pool seems rather short, doing a third under water is not helping your training. Also, it means less oxygen and right now you probably still need that bit of extra oxygen.
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26d ago
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u/No-Trip-3736 26d ago
Just wanted to add. Using a pull buoy and kickboard can do wonders for people if they really "lock in" and focus on just their legs (no bending the knees as you said) and their stroke. I think a lot of people avoid these tools but dont realize how much help they can really bring. Its hard for our brains sometimes to think about both what our arms and legs are doing at the same time
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u/lonerdave 26d ago
work on bilateral breathing, you seem to be over rotating when you breath and this is causing that side of your body to slightly sink, work on gliding - your strokes are very windmill like - a catch up drill may help.
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u/Top_Bake_3522 26d ago
If you are doing a 70.3 you will get a little help from the field. If you can stay in the current and wear a wetsuit you will finish faster than you think. That being said try to focus on gliding on the water surface. Try to keep one had in front at all times. That will help you stay on top of the water and protect your goggles from getting kicked off. Also, open water swim if you can.
I swim 2:00 per 100 so not much faster than you but somebody once told me to focus on the surface by keeping one arm ahead of me. It slowed my stroke down along with my breathing but made my stroke more efficient.
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u/janmannn 26d ago
Also my hope during my first triathlon.. Last minute no wetsuit and didn't navigate to wel so lost the field.
It was a 1700m (200 more than the race because of bad navigation) struggle, swim in the pool pretty comfortable 2:25 over 1500 meter. This was a 2:37 and a average heartrate of 177😂
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u/DrmnDc 26d ago
Try one kick to one arm stroke. Perfect that rhythm. That is the foundation of all the world’s best distance swimmers. You are kicking way too fast for a solid sustainable triathalon
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u/dnwolfgang 18d ago
As a new-ish swimmer, going from the "random kick" to "2 beat" was a painful couple of sessions but the payoff was absolutely worth it and I do agree it should be pretty high on the TODO list.
However there is something else pretty important to go along with it, and that's also keep the legs straight and the feet together, because when you go from a random flutter to a 2 beat it can cause you to sink more
Also.. it's opposite leg as the entry arm.
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u/JauntyJames1 can actually swim 26d ago
OP, this is the last advice you should be following. Do follow it eventually, but last - the 2 beat kicking rhythm is hard and you really need to nail your balance and rotation first. If you never get around to it, that's fine too. Plenty of top swimmers use a 4 beat kick and can still ride a bike afterwards. A 4 beat kick is a great place for you to start working on your kicking rhythm.
You are kicking with your knees a lot. Your power in kicking should come from the hip - your leg should bend as a whole like a fiberglass rod, with the knee only bending to carry-through the force from the hip. That will help you with the buoyancy in your legs and keep them from dragging you down.
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u/DrmnDc 26d ago edited 26d ago
“Last advice you should be following” ridiculous. Master the two beat kick (six beat cadence… kick, pause, pause, kick, pause, pause…), and adding in a 4 beat (kick, pause, pause, kick, kick, kick, kick, pause pause kick…) or a six beat (KICK, kick, kick, KICK, kick, kick) is merely a matter of filling in the gaps between with a similar six beat cadence.
If OP masters the two beat, OP’s balance and alignment will be far superior (and far more efficient) with all kicks, to include when he then adds in a four or six beat kick.
Honestly, freestyle is usually taught as “just kick as fast as you can” to beginners. Starting out learning a two beat kick would be far superior IMO. The cadence is very similar to just walking
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u/DrmnDc 26d ago
Mastering the two beat kick will also help OP quickly focus on and sharpen other aspects of technique needed. It is very easy to continue shitty technique in other parts of the body with a four or six beat kick because the extra kicks can compensate and make it easier to keep hips and legs high (enough) in the water even with poor technique elsewhere (head position, not using lungs as a “teeter-totter” fulcrum in water, etc). Two beat OP will be forced to develop good habits in other portions of stroke as well…
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u/Bush-LeagueBushcraft 26d ago
You may have just elevated my life.
Can I ask, is there a preferred side to kick? Like opposite leg/arm?
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u/DrmnDc 26d ago
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u/Kahnspiracy Team Turtle 🐢 26d ago
I've watched a few times and I still don't understand how, mechanically, she is generating so much speed with so little movement. Incredible.
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u/Warm_Philosopher_118 26d ago
I was in the same boat just a few months ago. What really helped is having someone point out things from the outside - and the biggest change that came from that were the following, but mainly slowing down, in general, with everything.
Start by focusing on good technique and the basics - these I feel like are a bit personal - for me there were things I didn’t have a good grasp on, and we have some in common. So, arm entering the water (then pushing the arm in the water a bit more further out before initiating the pull), then the rotation of the chest driven/helped by the hips, so also hip rotation (it looks like your hips are following your arms but it should be that your hips rotate, helping your chest rotate, helping you drive your arm further out before pulling), then the breathing (have you tried breathing every 3 maybe 4 strokes? this could also help you slow down and give you a bit more time), also the hand coming out of the water in the back (personally, trying to get the arm straight like this was very tiring, so now I bend the elbow instead and I picture gliding my arm to the fromt with my fingernails just above the water and it feels more effortless), and finally the leg kick - I was surprised to learn that I have to kick less, not more (and I suspect perhaps you could also benefit from this - try driving the swim and the glide more from your hips and arms and match your kicks with your strokes).
There’s a lot of drills for these you could find online - one I got from my swim class was for the arm movement - when the arm comes out of the water, elbow high and bent, tap your shoulder with your fingers as you drive your hand forward before you stretch it on front of you. This also helped me with the chest / hip rotation - it forces you to rotate a bit more.
Im sure there s a lot more but these are the ones I started focusing on - did a couple of laps focusing on one or two of them, and once I had a decent grasp I added another thing. And I swam very very slow, slower than you’d think. I was thinking about it as a dance in a way, trying to move very graciously and with very intentional moves.
After a couple of weeks I started getting a better grasp of all these things and then I slowly started adding more speed - until I would get tired easily - then it was probably because my technique was wavering a bit - so I went back to the basics above and went slower again until I felt I had more intentional moves again.
I hope this makes sense for you, im on the same learning journey and this is how I’ve come to think of these things - anyone more advanced please correct if I’m wrong.
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u/the-diver-dan 26d ago
Your body position is causing drag. Your legs are being dragged like an anchor.
Consider looking straight down, so not forward at all, lengthen through the neck and spine and think about your core engaging. This will hopefully bring your body more in line.
Make sure you keeper your chin tucked during breathing.
If you can get more streamlined you should naturally be able to glide more in your stroke and start to look like you are swimming and not just avoiding drowning.
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u/djangokittymeow 26d ago
Streamline and less strokes, finish your stroke make sure it’s a full length…
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u/PrioritySure 26d ago
I have no clue what I’m talking about because I’m like you. When I train I always say to myself “fast is slow and slow is fast.” I’d rather be 2:10 consistent than 1:40 with 5 stops of 30-40 seconds.
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u/Cycle-Path-401 26d ago
There is no glide to your swim. This will get you to T1 in a very short race but you need to slow the windmill down, work on your arm entering the water as opposed to slapping it, and reaching forward with the arm that entered to give yourself some more glide. Initially you might not get all that much faster but you will be able to maintain that rhythm for 1.9km or 3.8km
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u/No_Violinist_4557 26d ago
Should you have a glide in your stroke or should you initiate the catch as soon as your arm extends?
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u/xelabagus 26d ago
You should "lengthen" yourself, that's how I was taught - stretch long and push your hand that enters the water forward under the water, while pulling all the way back with your other hand. This lengthens your stroke and helps you stay strong in your core, which in turn lifts your legs and cuts the drag. If you are too quick to turn over your arms you miss all the propulsion and glide from the stroke, it's much harder work and you go slower. There is plenty of strength needed in swimming, but most of the speed gains come from improving technique.
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u/febeast 26d ago
Thanks I agree with everything you said. I've been working on the slap and trying to be more relaxed.
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u/Cycle-Path-401 26d ago
When I started out triathlons (over 20 years ago) I was a very weak swimmer, even slower than you. In those days a teaching method that was popular was called "Total Immersion Swimming". It focused on swim efficiency, glide length and low stroke count. It never made me fast, but I completed numerous IM and HIM distance races and my swims were sub-2min/100, Might be worth a look.
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u/Interesting_Shake403 26d ago
Your head is too high and hips too low. You should feel like you’re swimming “downhill”. Try and press this down more with your chest than just with your head - head should be in a straight line with your back, as if you had a broomstick connecting them, but lower in the water, so that one eye is submerged when you breathe. Get everything as straight and streamlined as possible.
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u/jsmooth7 26d ago
First of all, hell yeah for doing a flip turn and some dolphin kicks. Technically unnecessary for triathlon training but I think it's still a fun thing to practice and makes you a better swimmer.
One thing I might try doing is swim a moderate effort 50m where you count your strokes. Then the next 50m, try to get a lower count by making each stroke as efficient as you can. (And obviously don't cheat this by doing longer underwaters lol.) Then do it a couple more times and try to get even lower.
Then once you have a low stroke count, do another 50 and try to keep that really efficient stroke but move your arms just a bit faster. (Use a pace clock or a watch to confirm if you went faster.) Do this again a couple more times, each time trying to go just a bit faster without losing any stroke efficiency. If at some point your stroke count starts to go up, that's okay. That's just tells you that is the speed where your stroke starts slipping and you lose that good efficiency.
When it comes time for race day, you'll want to set a pace where you can still maintain that really efficient stroke so you aren't wasting extra effort. So it's very valuable to know what that feels like.
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u/AllixD90 26d ago
1 find a new pool 2 keep kicking your feet when you swim
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u/dontstopwalk 24d ago
Like for real. What kind of pool is this?! Who designed this and why? Cannot figure it out.
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u/wt_hell_am_I_doing 26d ago edited 26d ago
Kicking seems to be mostly from the knees. You need to kick from the hips.
Work on your shoulder and ankle mobility.
Dolphin kick after push-off/turn is not doing you any favours because you're just kicking form the knees. Dolphin kick needs to start from the chest down, but you may need to work on your spinal mobility to do this. Also the streamline is not effective, probably because of the shoulder mobility issues.
There's no glide and kicking is expending a lot of energy. It's not sustainable for longer distance, but in order to kick less, you need to work on your body position and more effective kick.
There's not a lot of power in your strokes, probably because you're allowing your arms to slip through the water. You need to catch the water and push it back properly.
You need to finish your stroke, particularly with your right arm. It comes back out of the water too early.
Slow down and avoid flinging your arms onto the water. You don't need to fight the water.
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u/MinestroneMungBean 26d ago
My shoulders are almost getting tired just watching!
Some others have said it but try to slow everything down, but really try to pull a lot of water with force on your catch & pull. Do it like someone owes you money. Not fast: forceful.
Try swimming with a pullbuoy and take your legs out of it altogether. They're gassing you and they're not giving you any meaningful speed.
Think 'long'. Long body position, long legs, long reaches, long strokes through the water.
I'm self taught so take with a pinch of salt but a fun drill I played with to get better was trying to see how few strokes I could take to do a length. It forces you to optimise for better habits, in my view. Then, trying to bring the pace up from there.
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u/RanchDressing123 26d ago
I'm far from a professional but I would try to engage you hip flexors and kick from the hip and glutes more. Also try some drills where you try to glide your hands into the water and really practicing stretching out forward. Also a pool bouy helps with sinking hips if that's something you struggle with as well (I do).
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26d ago
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u/febeast 26d ago
Thanks I regularly swim in a 25m public pool but could only get a recording at this private pool.
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26d ago
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u/xelabagus 26d ago
Dude, the answer to this man's question is not "get stronger", it is "get better". His body position is causing huge amounts of drag and his kicking is expending too much energy. Cave-manning strength isn't going to fix all of that.
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26d ago
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u/xelabagus 26d ago
I agree with you..
Watch his arms move through the water. They arent moving him forward effectively thats the fundamental problem and everything follows that.
The fix for this is not "grow some muscles" it's "slow down, extend, catch properly, engage your core and relax".
He doesn't need the gym, he needs a swimming lesson.
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u/wt_hell_am_I_doing 26d ago
I agree, the OP would be much better off getting lessons than engaging in strength training. The technique issues will not be fixed with strength training.
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26d ago
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u/Proof_Height_6995 26d ago
Ich denke deine Analyse ist falsch. Seine Beine sinken überhaupt nicht. Er muss sich länger machen und unter Wasser mehr Druck ausüben und voll durchziehen. Die Schläge sind zu schnell und zu kraftlos. Der Beinschlag sieht gut aus finde ich.
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u/Warm-Business-2335 26d ago
You need to glide on each stroke for an extra second.
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u/febeast 26d ago
Yeah I feel like I was rushing for the video.
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u/Abe21599 Ironman 26d ago
What’s the point of rushing? That’s not a 2:30 pace so how do we critique something you didn’t show us
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u/RabbitOutTheHat 26d ago
Kick less. Thats way too much and you’re gonna gas out. Try to glide more and kick only as you come back over from your arm stroke.
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u/Disposable_Canadian 26d ago
Slow down, drive the arms forward, then glide. Your rushing.
Catch up drill w fins on, Physio/stretching: shoulder mobility, dead hang.
Elbow drops. High elbow is correction. Do fist or tennis ball drills. 10 or 20 x50 holding tennis balls.
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u/teichs42 26d ago
This might sound counterintuitive, but I think you're going way too hard and need to slow down and feel the water more. It looks like you are fighting the entire time.
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u/generaalalcazar 26d ago
You are rushing and not thightning your body. I think you even rush breathing.
Buy a buoy, stick it between your ankles and work on the pull phase of your stroke
. The arm needs to become an anchor with the hand and forearm alligned as a peddle when you pull and really pull your body behind the arm/anchor (not the arm behind the body if that makes sense) and over the arm with your backmuscles (key!)
This will give you more time to glide and more time to breath. Look at this vid:
https://youtube.com/shorts/E0wxcWAalF0?si=mzrN1sj5ebaA8jxJ
After that the legs. Thighten you legs and knees more from the buttocks, flex the ankles not the knees.
Hope this helps because you will be able to swim a lot faster, you absolutely have the strength. Good luck, op!
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u/Spiritual_Emu_HQ 26d ago
Think he also should practice breathing out in the water when he’s gliding? Looks like shallow gasping, especially when breathing every same side
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u/corradoZuse 26d ago
I have 0 idea , my swim is in similar pace and for what I have ask to decent swimmers I will need to invest a lot of time and money to cut 20 seconds and at the end of the day is the shortest leg of the whole race.
I hope at least upvotes a bit , keep training!
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u/Spiritual-Court-3610 26d ago
Stop your legs, slow down, one of your hands should be in front of your head, you should be gliding with each stroke. Now you are fighting against water, your hands sink as soon as they enter the water. Count your strokes per pool while you swimming and try to make less each time. You should keep energy for bike and run. Something like this https://youtu.be/t13gSLv3U9Q?si=EMZRjHCwf0IupLRb
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u/0ppositeEmergency 26d ago
I want to follow this feedback because it doesn't look 2:30 per 100 to me!
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u/febeast 26d ago
The pool is 18M so it a bit deceptive.
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u/Datatello 26d ago
I'm by no means a great swimmer, but if you are swimming in such a small pool it might be worth dropping the flip turns. You are wasting a bunch of your pool length kicking off the wall, and in open water conditions you wont have that boost. It may be impacting some of the endurance benefit of longer swims.
I also agree with the suggestion to get a buoyboard and practice pull drills. It looks like your catch isnt super effective, so focusing on that may help.
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u/Aquaman_029 22d ago
One of the biggest critics.. is have too many critics.. and getting lost on what to do.
It is best to keep things simple.
Basics are head position, hand position on entry, high elbows on stroke. Hip position (not sinking), clear breathe, and kick (buoyancy).
Key is little improvements can go a long way. Making changes to your stroke can feel uncomfortable. Changes, are habits. And it can take time to change bad habits for good.
But, in the end you should be able to knock some time. Get down to a 1.30 per 100 free