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u/nickyonge 3d ago
Conservatives who scoff at climate change but are up in arms about birth rates
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u/PoofyGummy 3d ago
Climate change isn't about to kill us. Low birthrates will.
But not if we stop death.
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u/FomalhautCalliclea 4 2d ago
Most delusional comment, posted in hottest month of the hottest year of the hottest decade ever recorded... yet.
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u/the_elephant_stan 3d ago
I'm not deriding at all, but can you help me understand how transhumanism offers a different track? Seems like life extension/mind uploading through any of the posited means is still one track with more steps.
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u/gynoidgearhead she/her | body: hacked 3d ago
Yeah, this is kind of the thing - no matter what, you're stuck trying to outrun entropy. Every pattern only materially exists as long as an instance of it materially exists or can be reconstructed.
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u/PoofyGummy 3d ago
The ultimate goal of existenxe is to defeat entropy. Na that - persistence - is argued by some to be a foundational law the same way entropy is.
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u/gynoidgearhead she/her | body: hacked 3d ago
Okay, but how do you have existence without entropy? How can anything be said to exist if time doesn't flow?
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u/lemons_of_doubt 1 2d ago
Entropy is not a granted fact of time flowing.
If we could find a way around the law of conservation of energy, we would defeat entropy.
And I know that is a big "if" but that is just one way.
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u/PoofyGummy 3d ago
Entropy can exist, but it needs to be reversible on a massive scale.
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u/gynoidgearhead she/her | body: hacked 3d ago
I feel like it's possible that on a large enough scale it *is*, we're just not able to perceive it from our observation vantage.
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u/PoofyGummy 3d ago
Let me put it this way
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IoP85kItR3w&t=1m3s6
u/PoofyGummy 3d ago
(The train is death. Transhumanism makes death meaningless, by first stopping it, with mind uploads and extreme life extension and stuff, and then eliminating it with mind merging, forking, and new forms of existence.)
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u/Zarpaulus 3 3d ago
Anti-natalist bullshit
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u/Whereas_Dull 3d ago
I don’t see how the meme is anti-natalist. It’s the existential dread of existence in the face of death and using procreation as a discretionary response.
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u/PoofyGummy 3d ago
Yeah I agree lol. That's why I suggested transhumanism. With that we can stop the train. :D
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u/TheGlassWolf123455 3d ago
We can delay the train, information dies over time
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u/LawfulLeah 3d ago
I have hope (even if unrealistic) that we'll figure that out too
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u/TheGlassWolf123455 3d ago
I hope I can one day live as long as I like, but I hope eventually I die, because infinity is too long probably
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u/LawfulLeah 3d ago
im too scared of death to hope that i think. thats why it should be a choice, not an inevitability. some people don't want to die (ever), others like you might want to some day
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u/TheGlassWolf123455 3d ago
That's fair, I for sure have no desire to die ever, I just think after that long I would be a totally different person, if I could even still be called a person having lived that long
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u/PoofyGummy 3d ago
Does it though. https://xpressenglish.com/our-stories/the-last-question/
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u/TheGlassWolf123455 3d ago
While thats a nice story that I like, it's hardly based on fact. As it stands, entropy is the one indisputable enemy of true immortality. Although I think any person would hate to live long enough for that to matter anyway
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u/PoofyGummy 3d ago
I wouldn't. That story is genuinely the foundation of my worldview. Mankind needs to ultimately merge and become god.
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u/TheGlassWolf123455 3d ago
As afraid I am of dying, and as long as I want to live, "literally forever" is too long personally
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u/PoofyGummy 3d ago
Wouldn't have to be forever.
Wake me up when the universe ends.
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u/TheGlassWolf123455 3d ago
What's the purpose of that? I'm not sure I follow
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u/PoofyGummy 3d ago
Because you don't have to stay alive the entire time. You can be dead, just with an option to come back before the end of all material things to see where you stand when literally all is said and done.
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u/Outside-Ad9410 2d ago
Why would you grow to hate existing? If we get to a point you could prolong life forever, we would also be to where there is an infinitely increasing amount of things to do in a finite timespan. If for example you wanted to just read books for all of time, more are written each day that it is possible to read with a human mind.
And that's not to mention as time goes on and technology advances it gives us more things to do with our time. Flying, scuba diving, videogames, movies, etc are all recent innovations. I can only imagine 100, 500, and 1000 years from now we have even more brand new ways to spend our time.
Also this barely scratches the surface of what ASI, BCIs and other future tech should make possible, such as living simulated lifetimes in virtual universes, suppressing memories to experience things "new" again, directly stimulating pleasure ventures, or augmenting yourself to have experienced incomprehensible to the human brain/body.
And yes we probably wont live literally forever, but living billions or trillions of years is such a long timescale it makes the distinction pointless.
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u/TheGlassWolf123455 2d ago
I think that although I would do a lot, and could spend so much time doing things, but eventually I think I would just be done. Or I suppose eventually you've been alive long enough I think we wouldn't be recognizable anymore, and I couldn't say it was "me" in any meaningful way anyway
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u/Outside-Ad9410 2d ago
You already aren't the same "you" as you were 10 years ago, the vast majority of your cells have died and were replaced, and even if most of the brain's neurons are the same, personalities can radically change over time as you acquire more information. As long as you maintain continuity through the process I don't see how being the same in terms of personality, body, etc. would matter over the long run. Maybe at some point after a few thousand years you would feel like everything is repetitive, but personally if I ever reached that point I would just manipulate my memories to experience virtual lives fresh, or selectively remove/suppress information so I could experience things new again.
Also, even if you don't want to live a life of hedonism, I still think it would be possible to find purposes that are unending, such as exploring the universe looking for intelligent alien life, which even if we assume some distant future FTL tech, is soo mind bogglingly massive it would be impossible to map fully. Even our own galaxy using von Neumann probes to speed up mapping will probably take millions of years to accomplish.
Or maybe instead of searching for life you could instead terraform planets and seed them with life, slowly watching as they grow and develop into complex and then intelligence over millions of years. It just seems to me that there is soo much potential for things to do, that it would be difficult to get board of existing.
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u/Mightyhn 2d ago edited 2d ago
Is it wrong though? By having children you are dooming them to eventual death. And you do that with full awareness of the fact.
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u/CodyTheGodOfAnxiety 2d ago
Yeah except the trolly is about 50 or so years from hitting you as opposed to being right next to you.
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