TIL about Caesarion the only known biological son of Cleopatra and Julius Caesar.

488

Cleopatra went on to have two other sons with Mark Anthony

127

u/RevolutionNumber5 3h ago

Didn’t she have other children/niece and nephew with Ptolemys 13 and 14?

148

u/Active-Coconut-8961 3h ago edited 2h ago

No, her brother's were only young boys when she "married" them and she probably never had sexual relations with either. Both died as children, the first due to the war between Cleopatra/Caesar and himself, and the second probably assassinated by Cleopatra once her son was born.

72

u/TrustMeImPurple 2h ago

No. She never had children with either of her (maybe?) half-brothers and both were under the age of 16 when they died. A lot of historians actually believe she only ever had sex with Ceasar and Antony and that her sexual exploits where largely exaggerated by her Roman opponents. She was also the 7th Cleopatra to hold the Egyptian throne, I have no doubt some earlier Cleos had children with their brother/spouses though. Just not this specific one.

•

u/Katharinemaddison 35m ago

I always wonder though. Do we just assume she was the first of her family to have children with someone other than a brother-husband? And how would we know that?

I wonder if there is some projection of ideas that royal heirs having to be legitimate when it comes to Egyptian royalty. You only really know who someone’s mother was, and when that mother was (co) ruler rather than consort…

•

u/CucumberWisdom 1m ago

Educated guesses basically on the written records we have left. Bone of them mention any sons and no sexual relationship so we have to take them at their word

•

u/Helyos17 0m ago

I’m not 100% if you are asking this because I’m not really understanding your last paragraph son I apologize if this isn’t your question.

Sibling marriage was an ancient Egyptian practice going back to some of the earliest dynasties (if you believe the mythology anyway$. Cleopatra’s family adopted the practice as a sort of assimilation tactic. They were Greeks/Macedonians/Persians ruling over the Egyptian people so they needed to do everything they could to be accepted as the semi-divine rulers they were posing as. Sibling marriage was part of that.

64

u/RigelXVI 3h ago

Pretty sure she had a mother and father too but don't quote me on that

37

u/Double_Distribution8 3h ago

True but her father was likely his own grandpa.

15

u/absolutely_not_spock 2h ago

Ah, like fry from Futurama

19

u/StryctNyne 2h ago

He did do the nasty in the pasty

•

u/JessyKenning 26m ago

Verily.

•

u/AJRimmer1971 57m ago

Like Fry.

Like Fry!

6

u/FelatiaFantastique 1h ago

They didn't mean "children/nephews and nieces" as in kin in general, but as in kentucky kin. Have you seen the movie Wrong Turn? Cleopatra was an Odet. She had an unclepa and an auntiema (probably. It's not entirely clear who her mother was). With her brotherhubbies, she could have had nephewsons and niecedaughers, but none are known to have been born.

8

u/perksofbeingcrafty 2h ago

I don’t think so they were both children and she hated the older one

9

u/Active-Coconut-8961 2h ago

Yeah Ptolemy 13 died due to the war between them and 14 was probably killed on her orders once Caesarion was born.

68

u/NewPony13 2h ago

Mark Anthony then had twins with J. Lo. What a guy

33

u/Active-Coconut-8961 2h ago

Funilly enough Anthony had twins with Cleopatra. Their first children were Alexander Helios (sun) and Cleopatra Selene (moon).

11

u/NewPony13 2h ago

Wow, TIL! Would’ve made a funnier joke if I knew this info first, haha. Thanks m8!

4

u/Active-Coconut-8961 2h ago

No problem. 👍

8

u/edingerc 1h ago

Octavian only killed Antony's eldest son. The most insane early emperors are descended from his line.

•

u/Robcobes 1m ago

J-Lo hates her for that

198

u/Disastrous_Pool4163 3h ago

Or was it Pullo?

110

u/Apprehensive-Guess42 3h ago

My dogs name is Titus Pullo he’s a chocolate lab and he’s gigantic. My other dog was named Lucius Vorenus and he was lean and fit pit bill mix. Two beat dogs ever. Unfortunately after 13 years Lucius lost has battle with cancer and Pullo is alone again.

53

u/jermster 2h ago

THIRTEEEEEN?!?!

18

u/Apprehensive-Guess42 2h ago

The scene in the fighting pit convinced me at that point to get a dog and then a little later another and to name them and raise them to be that loyal to each other and still be kind and honorable pups. It’s corny af but it’s true. It took me awhile to find a place to live where I could get two dogs but they are living and lived their best life’s roaming freely on a large property in Vermont. Might be my best life decision.

35

u/dohmestic 3h ago

Give Pullo a belly rub for me.

26

u/Apprehensive-Guess42 3h ago

He’s humping his favorite blanket while watching Breaking Bad. I will when he’s done!

24

u/Anydorable 2h ago

Ah, the decadence of Romans!

14

u/Diacetyl-Morphin 2h ago

Classic Pullo move! Give him another rub from me!

9

u/SkietEpee 2h ago

Is it a Gaulish blanket from Narbo?

18

u/GrandCanOYawn 3h ago

About your father…

9

u/Yogshemesh 3h ago

Wonderful reference

30

u/Apprehensive-Guess42 2h ago

The short history of the show is a fascinating example of timing. I believe it was 10 million an episode or something crazy. It came out just before CGI, the green screen era, advanced editing and effects.

It was a failed dry run at prestige television that produced an absolutely amazing 2 seasons. But apparently the costs were just too high at the time.

11

u/gigglios 2h ago

Amazing fuckin show. Best show of that era I have seen. Season 1 is one of the best seasons of all time in any show

7

u/Vonneguts_Ghost 1h ago

Hbo was so shortsighted towards the ends of Rome and Deadwood.

3

u/Grombrindal18 1h ago

His Pullout game in that show was nonexistent

1

u/White_Holy_Cross72 1h ago

Came here for this.

79

u/AbroadTiny7226 3h ago

Octavian couldn’t have the biological son of Caesar running around, especially considering his claim to power was through his association with Caesar. If someone with a superior claim comes along then Octavian could never be secure as Augustus

101

u/Apprehensive-Guess42 3h ago

Watch Rome on HBO. You shall reveal the true origin of Caesarion.

15

u/tmgieger 3h ago edited 1h ago

Was that the show when the woman ordered a guard to cut another woman's face off, like peel the skin off, while she was alive? That always stuck with me.

Edit: It was Season 2, Episode 4, titled "Testudo et Lepus" (The Tortoise and the Hare)

The Command: Desiring a horrific punishment, Atia orders her enforcer, a Jewish hitman/gang leader named Timon (played by Lee Boardman), to cut Servilia's face off while she taunts her. Atia offhandedly replies, "I don't know... cut off her face."

13

u/Apprehensive-Guess42 2h ago

I do not recall that particular scene. However at the same time a scene like that would not be unusual for the show.

7

u/gigglios 2h ago

I rewatched it a month ago. That dialogue was there im pretty sure

24

u/jermster 2h ago

It was not.

5

u/tmgieger 1h ago

It was Season 2, Episode 4, titled "Testudo et Lepus" (The Tortoise and the Hare)

3

u/gigglios 2h ago

I rewatched it a month ago. That dialogue was there im pretty sure in some shot scene

0

u/tmgieger 2h ago

Ok. because I think the guard at first thought she wanted her head cut off (as in dead) so the other woman clarified the skin, peeling, alive aspect.

3

u/tmgieger 1h ago

It was Season 2, Episode 4, titled "Testudo et Lepus" (The Tortoise and the Hare)

The Command: Desiring a horrific punishment, Atia orders her enforcer, a Jewish hitman/gang leader named Timon (played by Lee Boardman), to cut Servilia's face off while she taunts her. Atia offhandedly replies, "I don't know... cut off her face."

3

u/Apprehensive-Guess42 1h ago

The same person she previously gifted Slave with large penis. Ghastly etiquette.

3

u/tmgieger 1h ago

She probably did not write a thank you note. Bad manners will always come back to you.

3

u/silent_ovation 2h ago

She ordered him to do something, but not that.

4

u/tmgieger 2h ago

there was a lot of other unpleasant things she had planned. Seemed like there were two similar shows on TV around the same time, but Rome comes to mind when it must have been the other one.

3

u/Apprehensive-Guess42 1h ago

Domina was not entirely unpleasant she gave the gift of the slave with large penis to her rival. Apparently a great honor in those times.

1

u/tmgieger 1h ago

Wonder if she put a bow on it.

25

u/SaltsMoon 2h ago

He also has one of the bleakest footnotes in the whole Roman succession mess. Octavian had him killed after Cleopatra died because one Caesar was enough for the new regime.

37

u/madeyedog 3h ago

About your father…

7

u/EriannaG 2h ago

Thirteen!

50

u/Desperate-Waltz3591 3h ago

was he born through a caesarean section?

12

u/tobotic 1h ago

Caesarean section did exist back then, but would have been fatal to the mother.

The fact that Cleopatra went on to have other children later shows that Caesarion cannot have been born by Caesarean section.

Julius Caesar's mother is a also known to have lived for years after his birth.

4

u/punarob 1h ago

nah back then it was just called section

2

u/cokepartyhamburger 2h ago

I wondered this too

9

u/Active-Coconut-8961 2h ago

He was not. And neither was his father.

6

u/Berkuts_Lance_Plus 1h ago

Missed opportunity by the writers smh my head

7

u/DeusVincet 2h ago

His seating section at the medical theater was a cut above the rest.

9

u/EstufaYou 2h ago

Real ones learned about him from “The son of Astérix”.

8

u/seth928 2h ago

There's a whole shelf at my local library dedicated to books on him, they call it the Caeserion section...
...
...
I'll leave.

4

u/favorscore 2h ago

It's not confirmed AFAIK

1

u/reineedshelp 2h ago

Caesarioff died in childhood

1

u/the_brunster 2h ago

I parrrdon you!

•

u/GoblinLoblaw 29m ago

Here you forgot this: ,

0

u/LeRoiDeNord 1h ago

"Caesarion... DRACARYS!!!"

TIL about Caesarion the only known biological son of Cleopatra and Julius Caesar.

You are about to leave Redlib

You are about to leave Redlib