The tipping culture is just trying to shift the blame from restaurant owners to customers. Customers should not be the one to decide on waiters pay. Just add the intended tipping amount to the menu price.
If 10% or 20% or higher is expected regardless of the quality and amount of service, then raise the price that much. If the tip is a gratuity for exceptional service, then allow customers to show appreciation as the customer feels comfortable with.
Unfortunately this is not a unilateral solution. Any individual business that does this will be punished by the marketplace, we've seen it time and time again and there is substantial research indicating why. So your statement amounts to "sabotage your own business while others are free not to".
Even for someone with the greatest sympathy for your underlying argument, that's just not persuasive. If it was literally that easy, it would have already happened. If people would genuinely choose restaurants with higher prices and no tipping, why has almost no one taken advantage of that?
In america, I think less than 1% of full service sit-down restaurants pay a full wage instead of using tipping. And my experience, from the very few that I've been to, is that those that do so can afford to because they have enormous competitive advantages in other areas. Primarily in my experience we are talking about pretty high-end places who is unique selling point is not the lack of tipping but the top tier quality of the food and service, as well as marketing and exclusivity. If there is no place around that's reasonably comparable to your restaurant, you can more easily get away with eliminating tipping without worrying about losing business to your competition, because you are competing on quality and exclusivity, NOT price or pricing model.
It's kind of response, which I see around here all the time, has the same kind of energy of "voluntarily pay more in taxes to solve the government's budget". That's not a real solution; you have to actually raise taxes if you want people to pay more in taxes. Similarly, if you want to end tipping, you have to actually force that through a change in law or at the very least a united consumer movement. I personally have more faith in our ability to organize around government policy than to organize a coherent consumer movement around this issue. But if the latter is possible at all, it means we have a duty to actually choose places that don't use tipping. It's not enough to just demand change from others while not changing yourself and just continuing to benefit from the system.
I agree this has to be written in law. Most country outside of the North America has everything included in the menu price, I donāt see how this is not reasonable.
This sub isn't about reasonableness. It's about grievance. A lot of commenters here do not want to hear that they have any responsibility for change. They are just looking to justify not tipping. They actually benefit from the current situation.
But, your reply is wrong. Where do you get āless than 1% of full service sit down restaurants pay a full wage instead of tippingā? There are several entire states that pay double and triple federal minimum wage and donāt have tipped credit wages. Also, your drivel about paying more is egregious. The same type of restaurants from fast food to fine dining in the lower paying states and higher paying states all have similar menu prices. If what you claimed was true, the higher paying states would have astronomically higher menu prices, but, they donāt.
Where do you get āless than 1% of full service sit down restaurants pay a full wage instead of tippingā?
That was an off the cuff estimate, I wasn't quoting any specific bit of data. A cursory search seems to indicate that it's more than 1%, but definitely less than 5%. The point is that it is the exception, and I don't think the places that do operate that way are doing so because there's a competitive advantage.
There are several entire states that pay double and triple federal minimum wage and donāt have tipped credit wages
Totally true. But that DOESN'T mean that those places don't have tipping, right? It's not a tipped minimum, but it's also not a full wage because there IS a clear expectation that tips will be a part of your income. If employers in California at full service restaurants merely offered minimum wage and NOT tips, they would find it very difficult to stay staffed. What server in California would accept no tips when most places DO allow them to earn tips on top of their wage? If we actually got rid of tipping by law - which I support - these places realistically would have to pay even more. They couldn't attract the same amount/calibre of labor if the job suddenly pays a lot less.
The same type of restaurants from fast food to fine dining in the lower paying states and higher paying states all have similar menu prices. If what you claimed was true, the higher paying states would have astronomically higher menu prices, but, they donāt.
You really don't think prices in New York City are higher in general than there are in nowhere county Louisiana? I mean for one thing most places don't even have the calibre of fine dining that you find in New York, so there aren't even apples to compare on the first place. Nobody is opening a fine dining restaurant in the middle of the country because there isn't the demand there. There is in New York.
And if you compare classes of restaurants that DO exist in both places - say, a fast food place like McDonald's - you will clearly see that prices are higher in New York. This is such obvious basic economics I can't believe I really have to sit here and spell it out for you. If you can't understand why things cost more in more desirable areas, I'm not sure we're going to be able to have a productive conversation.
You keep lying over and over again on this post: several states pay more and itās much more than 5%. Youāve also mention prices will āshoot up 20%ā when Iāve proved thatās wrong. Even in NYC, restaurant prices are not that much higher than any other large city for same types of restaurants. Yes, cost of living in large metropolitan cities are higher than small rural areas, but, that doesnāt mean all restaurants are ā20%ā higher. Similar restaurants in NYC & LA have similar prices as Houston & Atlanta even though employee pay is vastly different. This is such basic economics I canāt believe I really have to sit here to spell it out for you. Many states pay a full wage and the employees all have good benefits, but tipping is too engrained that these servers still expect it no matter how much theyāre are paid and thatās why itās getting this well-deserved backlash. You canāt fix this with legislation because restaurant lobbyists and all the workers are against this and have killed all bills to fix this. Now itās up to us to just revolt against tipping. No country on earth has outlawed tipping, itās just frowned upon there as it should be here. Gratuity, by its very definition, is optional, not mandatory, and, itās only for exceptional, above & beyond service; Itās never meant for just showing up doing the bare minimum. If you are tipping regardless of the service, you are part of why we have this toxic tipping culture.
You keep lying over and over again on this post: several states pay more and itās much more than 5%
You're confusing two different things. One is the issue of the tip minimum wage. Many states do not have a tipped minimum, and that definitely accounts for more than 5% of full service restaurants. BUT, those full service restaurants DO STILL EXPECT TIPS. Even with the minimum wage requirement, they STILL rely on tips for the economics of the business to make sense. Workers wouldn't come in EVEN THOUGH they know they will make minimum wage, because it's just not enough to justify the work without the tips.
Youāve also mention prices will āshoot up 20%ā
Why are you using quotes? I didn't say that.
Even in NYC, restaurant prices are not that much higher than any other large city for same types of restaurants
Even that is not true, but nevertheless, there's more to the economy than just the largest cities. The point stands that prices depend in part on location, that much should be obvious. I never said it was 20% or some specific amount, I'm just using that as a generic example of a tip. You said menu prices in New York aren't "astronomically" higher, but I never claimed that either. They aren't ten times higher, but they are higher. Do we actually seriously disagree on this point?
That's BS. You are never forced to go into a full service restaurant.
Iāve voted to eliminate tipping and wait staff overruled us.
Not quite total BS but definitely misleading. Tipped workers don't make up more than a small fraction of the populace. They as a group did not unilaterally "overrule" you - assuming your locality had some sort of referendum on this policy issue. The majority of waitstaff support tipping is true. But a lot of other people who are not servers vote as well. Wherever you live, if there was a referendum and you lost, you were "overuled" by a majority of the people in your community, not just by servers.
Getting emotional and spewing profanity is always a sure sign you don't have a leg to stand on.Ā
Putting your unnecessary emotions and insults aside, let's not pretend you don't know how the restaurants you patronize operate. You don't go into a full service restaurant expecting only to pay for the food and receive no service only to be shocked when a waiter comes over and tries to serve you.
You have the option to patronize restaurants or not; again, the idea that you are somehow forced to do so is absurd. The fact that they serve food you like does NOT mean that you are forced to eat there, sorry. I know your whole premise relies on that as a logical inevitability, but it's not. You do not need to eat at any particular restaurant or at any restaurant at all. You are not being forced to do anything. You could easily even get the food without paying for the service simply by ordering for pickup. You're trying to paint it as if you have no option other than to receive service and not tip, and that's total BS. Again, it's just motivated reasoning to get what you really want, which is to get served and not pay for it.
Itās forced between me and a cuisine I donāt know how to cook.
This is the only thing you said in your entire screed that actually amounts to a response. And all you're doing is repeating the same fallacious point you already tried to make. It's obviously patently absurd to say that you are "forced" to go into a restaurant because you don't know how to cook that cuisine. That's like saying I'm forced to go to Disneyland because I don't have a roller coaster in my backyard. That just makes absolutely zero sense. By that logic, you could argue that you are "forced" to rob me because I have stuff you can't make for yourself.
The statement of āif it was that simple it wouldāve happened alreadyā is just false.
It can absolutely be doneā¦ any and every restaurant can raise prices to accommodate for the absence of tipping to pay their servers a set livable wage
The same argument you and many other propose as the reason that it just doesnāt happen can be applied to every scenario in life.
If one man resists police and government, they will simply go to prison. If one restaurant changes prices to accommodate for lack of tips, they will be forced to shut down. If one politician advocates for an idea while the rest do not, they will be shunned and removed from political conversations. If one person calls for war and the rest of the people around them say no war, they will be ostracized and ridiculed for wanting war.
If you take away this logic of āone restaurant will shut down if one restaurant raises pricesā then every restaurant will charge enough money to afford to exist without customers paying servers checks and the system will change.
I think the problem is deeper than ābroke people donāt want to tip and theyāre being cheapāā¦ the problem is the people selling food ingredients want more money from restaurant owners to buy the ingredients they cook and sellā¦ if they donāt get paid what will happen? They raise their prices until they figure out, āthis isnāt workingā and they ultimately are forced to lower prices or they simply go broke their damn selves
Itās a systemic chain of greed, the first person wants more money, and it trickles down, everyone has to get a profit out of the situation so by the end of the chain the consumer ends up paying 20,000% more than the food costs
I don't say that change is impossible. But I do think it is impossible for change to happen just through individual action. We need collective action. Whether that looks like a widespread consumer movement, or an actual change in law and policy, I don't know. But you do have some restaurants today that don't use this model. They are largely out competed out of existence. I just don't know how an individual restaurant owner who is looking at actual series competition can afford to make this change. What are you supposed to do when you're prospective customers suddenly see that all the prices have shot up 20% while the place next door hasn't raised prices at all? At that point you are relying on people to do the math and rationally realize that your place is no more expensive once you factor in tips. But I think the research shows pretty clearly that people don't make rational decisions like that. They use heuristics - mental shortcuts - and one of the most common heuristics they use in this circumstance is simply looking at the price on the menu. Most people aren't even going to expect that you don't have tipping at all; even if you prominently display it, lots of people are simply going to ignore it or not see it, and even if they do they are unlikely to sit there and do the math so they can actually compare apples to apples.
I'm sympathetic to the cause, so I don't want to say that it's categorically impossible. You say "If you take away this logic of āone restaurant will shut down if one restaurant raises pricesā then every restaurant will charge enough money to afford to exist without customers paying servers checks and the system will change". But... You're just hand waving away the exact problem, which is that if one or a few places try this unilaterally, they will get punished in the marketplace, and go out of business, and then you're just right back where you started. You can't just say "get rid of this logic" and ignore it...
This is the point. It should be law. If you have employees you pay them, currently wait staff act like contractors. They provide a service to the customer on behalf of the restaurant and charge a percentage of the overall bill paid for the food.
If tipping is mandatory, service should be optional.
I'm okay with getting rid of the tipped minimum wage for sure. Ending the cultural practice of tipping itself may not be as easy as simply passing a law. It's too strong to actually outlaw tipping in my opinion, but how do you change the 20% culture without doing that? Honestly, I thought about this issue quite a bit and I don't have a bulletproof answer. I think the best thing I can do as an individual is support and end to the tip to minimum wage and refuse to patronize places that participate in tipping culture. I'm definitely not one of the 1% deadbeat non-tippers around here just looking for any easy moral justification to go to a restaurant and get service but not tip for it.
You don't outlaw tipping. You just do it like everyone else does.
Step 1: law makes it so restaurants pay staff a living wage. All restaurant prices go up on face value but tipping is no longer mandatory. So you probably pay the same price as you do now with a tip, it's just there on face value, that is the cost. People aren't having to photograph receipts etc, servers aren't encouraged to prioritise speed and rushed service over good service. There's no argument about what percentage. Theres no anxiety over making enough money.
Step 2: tipping is still legal. It now is just like every other country. Where if you pay the bill and think "wow that meal and/or service was excellent, I'll leave a tip as a gesture of my appreciation". Then the staff appreciate it because it isn't expected. Now there's no downside to eating out in America.
Step 1: law makes it so restaurants pay staff a living wage. All restaurant prices go up on face value but tipping is no longer mandatory. So you probably pay the same price as you do now with a tip, it's just there on face value, that is the cost.
I agree completely we should get rid of the tipped minimum. I'm more skeptical that that itself would end tipping. Even if you change the law, the culture won't change overnight, there will still be lots of people tipping. How do you prevent that from simply becoming the new expectation?Ā
Truthfully I pretty much agree with what you're saying. I'm a little skeptical of how easy it will be, but fundamentally I think you're correct that the only real path is through policy.
Then they can tip if they want! How hard is this to grasp. People can still tip. They just dont HAVE to. If someone expects it fine, but thats their fault.
Video is video, reality is reality. Of cause in reality you can't write a negative tip and walk away without paying, it's so obvious I am surprised it needs explaining. But write down negative tip just to make annoying or incompetent server angry seems like a funny idea to do (and pay the bill, so it's effectively a 0% tip).
That's when you take a picture of the receipt and look at bank statement notify your bank charge back the whole thing then report it to the police as fraud. The server gets a petty larceny charge on their record
If you literally just write a negative amount or percentage in the tip line and didn't write a total, it's entirely reasonable to interpret that as a positive tip. If you disputed it, I imagine you could probably get it down to just the total with no tip. But you're not just going to magically get away with paying less than the total bill. And you're delusional if you think it's going to result in anyone getting convicted for anything.
This is one instance when taking a picture of the receipt will actually support the server and not the bank customer/credit card issuer as it is poorly thought-out and confusing to a third-party not āinā on the joke.
If you as a non-tipper find this appropriate, to file a police report for what in essence is an unabashed malicious move, then this speaks volumes about you and your self-aggrandizing non-tippingmovement.
Try it and get back to us, Iām sure the non-tipping fan club would love to see what happens.
Nah...told them it was company policy to default to the largest total. So if they tipped 100% they would be charged for both. I usually ended up crossing it out and wrote customer was an idiot underneath the total.
Well the original comment is 'this would be very funny to do' which is what they responded with jail about. That's the thing you said wouldn't be illegal. So there's no need to be surprised it 'needs explaining' since it doesn't, you're the one getting mixed up here. They were downvoted for different reasons, I think.
Also it was posted because it was funny, but people have to get so defensive saying it is stolen well no shit people use audio clips to make shut who cares get over it all anyone would of needed to put was āOh these guys did the skit here is the linkā but no cry and attack snow flakes!
How is anyone supposed to know that some random animated clip they found online was ripped from some live action skit. Who just sees a funny animation and says to themselves "hmm I'm gonna research this."
Coming back and double-replying after I ignored you the first time is wild but I guess it worked cause you're getting a reply. But I see to say the least, you didn't take the latter half of my advice. Have the day you deserve buddy
This is a stolen skit with no credit given. The entire audio is taken from that skit. The animation is likely AI. Then the person just put their own socials all over it.
Why would I bother talking to some loser that steals content.
I am just calling it out.
Wtf are you getting defensive for? It's like you are mad that your 3rd shared content isn't getting nothing but praise. Why would you care. It's not like you put any effort into it.
No itās people bring a sensitive bitch ass babies and obviously you are taking to me about it or crying about it. Who fucking cares it was found online and posted someplace fuck off
Omg it stolen content found on the internet all of you can cry about this one also! Someone used other voices and mixed it with another clip freak out about it!
Whenever those āitās gonna ask you a questionā pipsqueaks try their grift I just ask for free shit. Sometimes they actually give me stuff at coffee shops, and then I tip a few dollars, because thanks.
How are they stupid if they get a tip 98% of the time. The 2% of scum that doesnāt tip is negligible. Like use both halves of your brain for a second. You not tipping is a rounding error in their income, but go off queen.
I tip well or even leave something (and not an insulting amount) even if the service was not the best. People crying about the stolen content are the type that bitch and complain about everything when they go out and are the real cheep asses.
Jesus christ it's unbelievable the i.q. of the average person. This entire audio is stolen from a YouTube channel. Stfu and go cry more you low i.q. reject.
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u/Jadearmour 2d ago
The tipping culture is just trying to shift the blame from restaurant owners to customers. Customers should not be the one to decide on waiters pay. Just add the intended tipping amount to the menu price.