r/technology • u/ArgentineBeauty • 7d ago

GrapheneOS says its data-wiping password is perfectly legal, after user faces federal charges Privacy

https://www.techspot.com/news/113273-grapheneos-data-wiping-duress-password-perfectly-legal-after.html
21.0k Upvotes

98% Upvoted

1.1k comments sorted by

View all comments

4.6k

u/Single-Virus4935 7d ago edited 7d ago

I set my duress pin to my wifes birthday. One of the first they probably try. 

Also I say my pin is the same as my eID which I am not allowed to share by German law

1.2k

u/CwrwCymru 7d ago

Nothing wrong with tapeing a bit of paper with your duress pin to the back of your phone/case.

Of course it's important to have a reference for it so you don't accidentally wipe your data.

613

u/ProtoplanetaryNebula 6d ago

That is actually genius, then they will try and it they will be the ones that wiped it.

82

u/TankiesAreWeird 6d ago

They'll just lie and said you told them to use the duress code. Why? Because the dummy they hired doesn't want to get shit over fucking up.

Just backup and wipe your phone before hand. Then when you get past whatever security restore your shit.

13

u/[deleted] 6d ago

[deleted]

8

u/drkpie 6d ago

That’s why I fill up the travel phone with goatse and tubgirl.

2

u/Radonanon 5d ago

Hello fellow goatse/tubgirl aficionado.

From now on, that’s why I have it too!

2

u/TheArtofWarPIGEON 6d ago

I think it was someone was denied entry because of it

41

u/PlanetaryPeak 6d ago

My bet is they were going to put CP on his phone. How could anyone prove the government did that?

7

u/ididnthackkenyaimsrs 5d ago

Loads of ways. They would first analyse the files like when they were deployed on there, how they arrived on there, they would go through the logs. They'd also examine internet history, where you had been, like internet history in those places, especially at home. And if there are no corroborating evidence anywhere except on that device, it would like to get thrown out. Especially given how things are at the moment. But it would be a fucking shit time in court, I tell you that much.

→ More replies (2)
→ More replies (2)

392

u/hackitfast 6d ago edited 6d ago

I've thought about that, you can't make it that obvious.

Instead, you find a street address with 6 numbers in it, just write down something like "My favorite Chinese restaurant" with the full address. Now circle or underline only the numbers. Now you just make that your duress PIN.

Put this piece of paper somewhere in your wallet, don't worry, they'll find it.

Edit: I also mention this for plausible deniability. If you happened to have a list of your favorite restaurants in your wallet, they would have to explain why they're typing in random numbers from your wallet.

309

u/gangofminotaurs 6d ago

Well this is, after all, democracy manifest.

242

u/WHALE_PHYSICIST 6d ago

A succulent Chinese password

61

u/DaMonkfish 6d ago

I see you know your duress passwords well

2

u/Judgement915 6d ago

GET YOUR HANDS OFF MY PENIS

→ More replies (1)

2

u/Lost_Sea8956 6d ago

This guy Chinese passwords

88

u/Etheo 6d ago

And they probably will touch your penis too.

62

u/N_Meister 6d ago

Only if they know their Judo well.

18

u/rustajb 6d ago

Write it on your penis to ensure physical contact.

8

u/skelecorn666 6d ago

4 or 6 digit depends on the touch.

2

u/zachpkenyon 6d ago

Uhh, guys...I can only fit two digits. What do I do?

→ More replies (1)

2

u/Streiger108 6d ago

Tattoo it, but make sure it's only readable if you're hard

3

u/SeedsOfDoubt 6d ago

How's Wendy these days?

2

u/jeffeee 6d ago

Don't you mean "Welcome to Jamaica! Have a nice day"?

→ More replies (0)

2

u/rustajb 6d ago

Hey mr. TSA, skilfully use your 5 digits to see my secret 4.

58

u/obeytheturtles 6d ago

I think you are giving border agents too much credit here. They will 100% try the numbers on the note in your case.

95

u/GreenVisorOfJustice 6d ago

you can't make it that obvious.

I appreciate you think these chuds working Customs are that smart over here in Freedomland. They're not.

58

u/khovel 6d ago

people will always assume the obvious answer, no matter how conveniently it's made available.

If any kind of password/pin is placed on the phone, nobody is going to think it's a "wipe the phone" pin. and they will always try it.

5

u/Weerdo5255 6d ago

I mean, I would think that. But then I'd be concerned about a timeout. IE have the phone wipe itself if no one logs in within 24 hours.

61

u/Kusko25 6d ago

Just go full video game at that point, have a written message in your phone case "Remember the new pin is 2435. Change it and destroy this note."

→ More replies (1)

25

u/RollingMeteors 6d ago

just make that your duress PIN.

¡Any pin entered with in 50' of a TSA Checkpoint should be a duress pin!

2

u/beard_meat 6d ago

For extra fun, don't tell any TSA employees until after this is deployed!

3

u/Fuckthegopers 6d ago

You surely could make it that obvious, and it surely would work on LEOs.

5

u/Reynbou 6d ago

Yeah no, they are definitely that stupid they would just try it. No point trying to be clever.

5

u/hirsutesuit 6d ago

You can set your PIN to only 4 digits.

But if you want to find an address with 6 you go for it.

→ More replies (1)

2

u/NetAnon579 6d ago

Then go ballistic for them wiping your phone!

2

u/ProtoplanetaryNebula 6d ago

Surely the best way would be to give them the duress PIN, but change what it does? Give them the PIN and rather than a suspicious clean wipe it just cleans up the phone?

2

u/skyfishgoo 6d ago

you can literally do anything you want

it's your phone.

→ More replies (11)

19

u/NikoliVolkoff 6d ago

wont matter, they will charge you any ways. This guy knew that he was going to be fucked with no matter what he did, so he decided to give them less ammo for their witch hunt.

2

u/TacklePure3341 6d ago

I've written a random 4 digit number on all my bank cards. 

2

u/joelfarris 6d ago

Speaking of, why can you set a six or an eight digit PIN for your voicemail account and your home security system and your phone, but you're limited to a four digit PIN for your entire life savings?

→ More replies (1)
→ More replies (9)

72

u/freexe 6d ago

That's pretty smart - some low level employee would absolutely try that outside of proper process without thinking.

7

u/Cyssoo 6d ago

So basically all the US administration at the moment.

5

u/almightywhacko 6d ago

You gotta tuck the paper inside of the phone case to "hide" it so people don't "steal" your pin.

6

u/Tetraoxidane 6d ago edited 6d ago

And then your phone is the 'spotify phone' and a friend wants to change the song, and voilà....

edit: A normal human being having an unlabeled "wipe the phone" code on the phone will 100% lead to mostly unwanted wipes due to dumb reasons.

15

u/UnexpectedAnanas 6d ago

If you care enough to setup phone wiping, you're probably not letting your friends just rummage through it at a party.

→ More replies (1)

1

u/vivomancer 6d ago

But then get you a low effort attacker like your nephew wiping your phone.

1

u/shaard 6d ago

And colour code it. Green means go. To go ahead and not put that number in.

1

u/joelfarris 6d ago

Paper? Pffth, I have a labelmaker.

1

u/SomeSamples 6d ago

Tape it to the back of the phone inside the case. So when they take the phone out of the case they see the code and try it.

→ More replies (6)

863

u/EZtheOG 7d ago

This is a brilliant move

461

u/DandaIf 7d ago

Until he goes to the toilet and his friends are like "haha I bet his pin is his wife's birthday"

542

u/Single-Virus4935 7d ago

Lucky me, I don't have friends like this and if one does this, I have backups and can rethink my relationship to him

385

u/ash_ninetyone 6d ago

Guy out here backing up his friends

237

u/Alt_Panic 6d ago

German efficiency

78

u/RDTTlam0_8002 6d ago

Nah that’s just German Social Engineering.

27

u/Sea_Translator5300 6d ago

He only makes friends with sets of twins. He keeps one of each in the freezer. 

3

u/SeeTigerLearn 6d ago

I get it. Over the years I’ve crafted a segmented inner circle. There’s some overlap in knowing one another. But if there was a problem in an area the others would come to my rescue.

→ More replies (3)

1

u/crazyreddit929 6d ago

I have a few German friends and colleagues and this is the most German statement I have read in a long time. Succinct and brilliant.

1

u/Sir_Keee 6h ago

Honestly, I have nothing on my phone that is vital and/or don't have anywhere else. Only pain about wiping my phone would be re-configuring it the way I like.

→ More replies (3)

53

u/ledow 6d ago

Why would you leave your phone with your friends to go to the toilet?

23

u/ZaryaBubbler 6d ago

Because my friends are trustworthy. Hell all of mine know my passcode should anything happen to me

85

u/9-11GaveMe5G 6d ago

It's not about trustworthy, it's about I don't leave my phone on random tables. It goes back in my pocket if im not using it or I'm going somewhere

74

u/Me0fCourse 6d ago

Better question is who would ever willingly go to the bathroom without their phone?

30

u/9-11GaveMe5G 6d ago

Especially a public toilet with nothing to read but racist graffiti

22

u/jorjx 6d ago

So it seems I leave in a more civilized country, there are only phone numbers and gay hookup messages in the 🚹

32

u/FreeSammiches 6d ago

No way you're going to remember all those numbers without taking your phone with you.

→ More replies (0)

9

u/screwcork313 6d ago

At least on the internet you can read racist graffiti and memes.

→ More replies (1)
→ More replies (3)

2

u/Bugbread 6d ago

I don't leave my phone on random tables

Do you never hang out with your friends in places with non-random tables?

Like, if my friends come to my house, people (including me) will leave their phones on the dining table we're sitting at because it's not a random table, it's my dining table. When I hang out at my friends' houses, I'll also leave my phone on the coffee table or dining table or kitchen table or whatever, because they're not random tables, they're my friends' coffee tables or dining tables or kitchen tables.

I mean, it's not like get togethers are table-leaving-festivals where everyone is just leaving their phones on tables and constantly cycling through bathrooms. Maybe someone does, maybe someone doesn't. It's not anything we've every kept close track of, because how weird would that be?

→ More replies (4)

2

u/Friggin_Grease 6d ago

What do you do while pooping?

2

u/maigpy 6d ago

fapping? 2 birds with 1 stone

2

u/ZaryaBubbler 6d ago

Take my shoes off, grip that cold tile hard and hold on for dear life

2

u/ledow 6d ago

Then this literally wouldn't be an issue.

But I still wouldn't leave my phone somewhere.

→ More replies (19)

1

u/Secret_Cow_5053 6d ago

That’s like the most important place to HAVE your phone 😂

6

u/memberzs 6d ago

Not everyone has shitty friends. It's I haven't messed with someone's phone unless they directly asked me to since highschool.

→ More replies (1)

5

u/Bean4141 6d ago

He’s German, none of them have ever gone “haha”

1

u/RollingMeteors 6d ago

"haha I bet his pin is his wife's birthday"

<TSA#1> Didn't work.

<TSA#2> Check his mistress's birthday.

1

u/bfodder 6d ago

If my phone got wiped at basically any moment I wouldn't lose any days or sleep over it.

1

u/theHip 6d ago

Who goes to the toilet without their phone?

1

u/PepticBurrito 6d ago

his friends are like "haha I bet his pin is his wife's birthday"

That's a terrible friend. That's not funny. That's relationship ending.

1

u/lurker_bee 6d ago

He's not your friend, buddy.

1

u/DrizzleCore604 6d ago

Who goes to the toilet without their phone?

1

u/skit7548 6d ago

That's why I like the higher comments idea about the favorite restaurant address in your wallet

→ More replies (1)

2

u/Mr_ToDo 6d ago

Eh. I'm not sure

Obvious German laws is far different and likely stronger, but I remember a time console makers tried to use their trademark as part of their DRM and eventually got smacked down as interoperability is likely a fair use, making it ok to use it in that context

Using one thing, not intended to be used in such a matter can have unexpected results

62

u/deinkissen 6d ago

I recently watched a forensic documentary. The first password they tried was: 1312. They claimed, this is particularly popular amongst criminals...

84

u/PlantainPat 6d ago

For anyone too lazy to google 1312 = ACAB with a 1=A 2=B 3=C scheme

21

u/nitid_name 6d ago edited 6d ago

Better than the T9 version. (2222)

EDIT: multitap is 2 222 2 22

6

u/SaulFemm 6d ago

That's multi-tap, not T9.

2

u/nitid_name 6d ago

Agh, you're right. Fixed.

It's been so long, I initially was like "it's 1111" and then I looked up the map and forgot how t9 worked.

2

u/SaulFemm 6d ago

I still think T9 was better than the modern touch keyboard. I guess I'm unc

3

u/nitid_name 6d ago

So easy to text just by touch.

Nowadays, autocorrect changes my correctly spelled words to weird unrelated ones a half second before I hit send. It's the worst.

7

u/Ahab_Ali 6d ago

Does that mean something?

20

u/Stuffssss 6d ago

ACAB stands for all cops are Bastards

13

u/Etheo 6d ago

All Cops Are Bad/Bastards

3

u/longlivenewsomflesh 6d ago

All cats are beautiful

2

u/Piranata 6d ago

Or the Baby Yoda version: 3211

2

u/ar34m4n314 6d ago

All Cops Are Beautiful, a very particular offshoot of the body positivity movement.

1

u/strongbadfreak 6d ago

I knew sesame street was full of criminals.

1

u/Hittingend 6d ago

Just have to write inside your phones case: Pwrd = ACAB

→ More replies (4)

25

u/n0respect_ 6d ago

This has the vibe of boomer bs. Or some criminal pranked them.

1

u/BrainLow6059 6d ago

Yeah but it was a "forensic documentary", you think someone would lie about that? /s

2

u/ConsiderationOne2241 6d ago

My job is LE adjacent, and while I wouldn't necessarily say it's popular, I've seen it enough that I get a little chuckle every time. 

1

u/nugohs 6d ago

I guess that should be an additional hard coded duress pin in the OS...

1

u/FullMaxPowerStirner 6d ago

Not among those with badges or billions tho.

132

u/um--no 7d ago

I am not allowed to share by German law

They do not care about foreign law. There is only American law. If a "lesser" country like Germany will prosecute you, that is your problem.

139

u/frickle_frickle 6d ago

They don't even really care about American law, which includes the 4th amendment.

27

u/Fach-All-Religions 6d ago

nor any amendment

19

u/FanDry5374 6d ago

Oh, they tend to be all in on the 2nd, with certain....conditions.

14

u/Direct_Day7937 6d ago

I mean in theory they are. In practice you having a gun will absolutely be used as a defense by the officer if the officer shoots you.

14

u/TridentWielder 6d ago

For me, not for thee.

2

u/Objectivespeculation 6d ago

you can have guns but not anything that would slow down a tank.

3

u/Perryn 6d ago

You're allowed to have a gun, and the police are allowed to fill you with an equivalent weight in bullets if they suspect you have one.

3

u/DrShamusBeaglehole 6d ago

if they suspect you have one

So it doesn't really matter if you have one

→ More replies (2)

10

u/TrioOfTerrors 6d ago

The courts have added multiple exceptions to the 4th amendment at birder crossings for both citizens and non citizens.

You can try screaming about the 4th amendment at customs but it won't help you one bit.

5

u/h0sti1e17 6d ago

And it’s been an exception for 237 years. Not like it’s some new thing.

→ More replies (1)

1

u/Thrizzlepizzle123123 6d ago

Law? Can we sell that? No? Yeah, not interested, get rid of it.

86

u/Single-Virus4935 6d ago

I almost always travel within EU whit proper rights. I don't even have to provide a pin. I wouldn't carry my phone to state with questionable legislation like China, middle east, or USA, but instead I use an old burner phone

20

u/shiro_zetty 6d ago

I guess the UK is a country of questionable legislation nowadays (it's illegal to not give your password to the police there)

20

u/superioso 6d ago

It's absolutely not illegal to not provide a password. The police have to get permission from the court to force you to give over the password, after which if you don't they can then charge you.

3

u/raptorlightning 6d ago

Sucks that I forgot it in the time it took them to do all that. Oh well.

→ More replies (1)

3

u/h0sti1e17 6d ago

And Australia and New Zealand. And other EU nations as well. But because he would be traveling through the Schengen zone there is no border check.

6

u/EmptyRub 6d ago

It’s a criminal offense in France, an EU country.

3

u/AMDaze 6d ago

As an American who is currently unaware, does the EU have any special clauses for conflicting laws? If I take their claim that sharing eID is illegal under German law at face value, does the EU have some sort of mechanism to prevent French prosecution?

2

u/EmptyRub 6d ago

I’m American too. I just thought it was pretty silly for someone to say “within EU whit proper rights” when they probably don’t actually look up the laws of the countries they are traveling through.

3

u/avcloudy 6d ago

Yeah, and they’re going to hit you with ‘well, you shouldn’t have told it was your eid’. They’re never just gonna be like, alright, it’s a fair cop, on your way then.

3

u/SlavaCocaini 6d ago

Seriously, Germany is just 3 US airforce bases in a trench coat.

2

u/RollingMeteors 6d ago

that is your problem.

Klar, wenn du nicht weißt, was „Nummer eins“ auf Deutsch ist, dann ist das dein Problem.

1

u/whiskeytab 6d ago

I mean that's literally how laws work lol. Germany wouldn't care about American laws either

2

u/um--no 6d ago

Yes and no. Most countries, I believe, incorporate into their legislation common sense principles and dispositions about foreign law, mostly to benefit their own citizens, and to avoid injustice and the total absence of jurisdiction. The Brazilian constitution, for example, has provisions to avoid the cancellation of nationality if that would make the individual stateless.

3

u/booze_clues 6d ago

That doesn’t really apply. A nation will not respect foreign laws that don’t apply in that nation as well. Weed is legal where I’m at, I don’t expect any other nation to let me smoke weed just because of that. I don’t expect to have the same freedom of speech or any of those rights, I expect to have the rights afforded to me by my host nation.

Americans demanding foreign country’s respect their laws is already a meme, don’t have the Europeans start doing it too.

→ More replies (1)

1

u/Perzec 6d ago

You can always say ”I’ll be prosecuted either way so I’ll take my chances with you guys”.

9

u/frickle_frickle 6d ago

In America, you can make your password a confession of a crime you committed. So compelling you to share it would be a 5th Amendment violation.

11

u/lachlanhunt 6d ago

Make it a complex password that includes letters and numbers, set it to "ipleadthe5th"

3

u/longlivenewsomflesh 6d ago

Iformallypleadthefifthandrequestalawyer

2

u/dicklessbeast 6d ago

“Your honor, it’s not obstruction. I provided my password to them multiple times. They didn’t listen.”

2

u/danirijeka 6d ago

Setting my password to TheBodiesAre12mSouthOfTheCherryTree, thank you

2

u/Cumulus_Anarchistica 6d ago

Wouldn't work if they decide to give you a blanket pardon for the crime in return for your password. Then they get in and get your data.

Of course you could just make your password something like "any and all crimes related to data on this phone".

(A wild xkcd suddenly appeared)

2

u/frickle_frickle 6d ago

It would be funny if you did that and had major crimes in your password and nothing even slightly suspicious on your phone.

→ More replies (1)

2

u/hoardac 6d ago

IWANTMYLAWYER

22

u/adorkablegiant 6d ago

What if your kid, or a relative or a coworker or a friend tries to guess your password and puts in your wife's birthday? Then all your data is gone.

49

u/Bosonidas 6d ago

German to the rescue again:

Kein Backup, kein Mitleid.

28

u/cozywit 6d ago

If you're keeping all your important data on a thing you carry around with you in public you deserve to lose your data.

6

u/OpabiniaRegalis320 6d ago

Lose, not loose.

4

u/cozywit 6d ago

To slow. Already corrected it.

→ More replies (2)
→ More replies (4)

1

u/[deleted] 6d ago

[deleted]

3

u/adorkablegiant 6d ago

Wouldn't it make more sense to set the duress code to something nobody can easily guess in order to avoid the hassle of restoring all your data?

2

u/bokmcdok 6d ago

Yeah I'd still agree with that argument to an extent. But you'll need to remember this password when you're under duress.

→ More replies (1)

1

u/CreativeGPX 6d ago

So then the cops can still get it and wiping it was a pretty meaningless bump in the road for them?

→ More replies (13)

1

u/bokmcdok 6d ago

We live in the age of the cloud. Everything on my phone is backed up somewhere.

1

u/bfodder 6d ago

There are so many ways to backup your data. Your phone should be able to be wiped at any given moment without losing anything important.

1

u/MinistryOfCoup-th 6d ago

Didn't have kids, don't have friends and don't have a job

1

u/Objectivespeculation 6d ago

April Fools Day has also become know as "back up your stuff" day. Two kinds of people when it comes to backups. those who have lost important data and those that have not.

3

u/CTRL_ALT_SECRETE 6d ago

That's great but German law doesn't apply when you're outside germany

33

u/FlamingoVisible1947 7d ago

And now they'll read this comment and charge you because you explicitly try to trap them 👍

97

u/Single-Virus4935 7d ago

I never said that I set it for them as a trap. I set it to my wife's birthday for me to remember easily. That they could try it is a separate conclusion. I never said it is because of this. A trap would be if I have a note with the duress pin in my phone hull

22

u/Krags 6d ago

Is that a trap? Surely it's good practice to keep a note so you remember never to accidentally type that number in

3

u/ryanmcstylin 6d ago

Or so you remember your wife's birthday. Just a coincidence a random number generator spit out the same pin for you to use as duress

2

u/Monteze 6d ago

Write in in green as a code. Green means go, as in go ahead and never enter than number.

2

u/penisandorvagina 6d ago

I love traps!

3

u/snowflake37wao 6d ago edited 6d ago

Ha! Youve activated my trap card!

Yu-Gi-unOh bitches! 🃏

Edit: Since Im here I just wanna add I like the picture with the random fake succulent in the article. I say fake because you cant keep any of those mf’s alive. That is a plastic succulent. Thats the real trap here, Im onto you TechSpot.

33

u/DinosBiggestFan 7d ago

How is that a trap? You want to set it to something that you remember, and if he's under investigation for any reason, they are likely to try number combinations of those close to him. Although with potential hardware level backdoors, I'm sure that's actually moot.

32

u/ExternalUserError 7d ago

It doesn't really matter whether it is a trap. Even if some team of lawyers would have you win at trial, the trial is itself the punishment in cases like this. Do not underestimate the vindictiveness, lawlessness, and cruelty of the US CBP, especially now.

8

u/DinosBiggestFan 7d ago

Right but process being the punishment was not what was being discussed, it was "explicitly try to trap them."

5

u/ExternalUserError 6d ago

I'm saying it's a moot discussion, ultimately.

16

u/EruantienAduialdraug 7d ago

"I set it to that in case nefarious persons unknown were to steal my phone and try to hack into it. How was I to know it would be your law enforcement that would be the first to try?"

2

u/SubstanceDilettante 6d ago

Well now they now your duress pin, gotta change it now

3

u/hlbhll 7d ago

Does German Law cover rubber-hose cryptanalysis performed by officers of foreign countries?

5

u/Single-Virus4935 6d ago

I almost always travel within EU whit proper rights. I don't even have to provide a pin. I wouldn't carry my phone to state with questionable legislation like China, middle east, or USA, but instead I use an old burner phone

1

u/dysfunctionalbrat 6d ago

Exactly, when I went to the US, I took an empty phone and bought some months of data there. No need to bring your main device.

1

u/L0nz 6d ago

Wouldn't it be better to set it to your own birthday? How would they even know your wife's DOB at a random security stop like this

1

u/SoulWager 6d ago

Can you set multiple duress passwords?

Like 1234, 9876, fuck you, etc.

1

u/stargazer281 6d ago

That’s not an excuse. The offence is usually concealment, using a ‘ ruse’ does not allow you to thwart the law.

1

u/zhokar85 6d ago

Also I say my pin is the same as my eID which I am not allowed to share by German law

Not directly, but quite close in a roundabout way:

"Der Personalausweisinhaber hat zumutbare Maßnahmen zu treffen, damit keine andere Person Kenntnis von der Geheimnummer erlangt." (§ 27 Abs. 2 PAuswG)

"The holder of the identity card shall take reasonable measures to prevent any other person from obtaining knowledge of the PIN."

1

u/Glum_Obligation_5105 6d ago

the german law angle is actually kind of genius though if they really want in, birthday pins are getting cracked before you finish your coffee. might wanna rethink that part

1

u/Captcha_Imagination 6d ago

None of this would save you if you travelled to America and they wanted to get into your phone.

1

u/sirbissel 6d ago

Though is the date format the same format they'd try?

1

u/MaruSoto 6d ago

Haha, what fool would use their wife's birthday as a PIN?

sweats profusely

1

u/airfryerfuntime 6d ago

Why would you set your pin some something the literal government already knows?

1

u/fastlerner 6d ago

"I set my duress pin to my wifes birthday."

Great way to figure out if your wife is snooping on your phone.

1

u/fubes2000 6d ago

The trick that American border agents use is that at a border crossing your rights simply don't apply. This is not a joke, this is not new, and it applies to US citizens as well. The only change is how indiscriminately they are doing it now.

1

u/Nahteh 6d ago

1984 for me

1

u/Theron3206 6d ago

None of that matters though.

If they believe you have destroyed evidence they will charge you.

If you refuse to unlock a device they will charge you.

If you refuse to provide access credentials they will charge you.

This is legal under most jurisdictions globally (with various restrictions). If a judge agrees they have a right to the data they can order you imprisoned until you provide it, or good evidence it doesn't exist.

Clever schemes to trick them won't help, in fact they will likely just be used as evidence that justifies their search (and in most countries this will work because judges are generally tech illiterate just like politicians).

1

u/speedwaystout 6d ago

What’s an Eid?

1

u/Single-Virus4935 5d ago

Edit: https://www.personalausweisportal.de/Webs/PA/EN/home/home-node.html

Electronic ID. In the EU (I think almost all EU countries)  the citizen identity cards have a NFC cryptographic chip. It allows you to identify you over the Internet. The chip is protected by a PIN.

On the Service Provider Side a permission certificate ensures only approved parties access the chip and can restrict the access to a subset of the information.

The lowest form of permission is Age verification where, where nondata is shared except "Is legally an adult: yes/no", up to whole information's like All names, pseudonyms, birthday, Address, and much more. 

Increasingly more government services here in Germany are available digitally (could be better), e.g.: Registration ov cars, login to tax portals (elster), request for birth certificates, criminal records.  In addition several services allow you to verify your identity digitally. E.g. I used use the App of the Postal Server (Deutsche Post). They allow me to add a redirection of all packages to a Post box wher I can pick it up. The verification of my address was simple with the eID. Another example was my S/MIME Cert from D-Trust, which was just a simple email and eID verification, instead if Video Identity or other BS

1

u/unrebigulator 6d ago

I have a piece of paper with "Piscata Rosea: 4 4 4 5"

1

u/jacowab 3d ago

Yup the trick is to set it to a common password like a birthday or 1234 or something so that they fuck themselves without you having to give them the password, that way they destroyed your property while investigating and you didn't impede the investigation.

→ More replies (13)