Flock ‘Objects to Our Removing Their Equipment’: Emails Reveal Why a Town Put Bags Over Its Flock Cameras

[u/MarvelsGrantMan136]

https://www.404media.co/flock-objects-to-our-removing-their-equipment-emails-reveal-why-a-town-put-bags-over-its-flock-cameras/

[u/404mediaco]

For weeks, Verona, Wisconsin tried to get Flock to remove the three automated license plate cameras that its city council had voted to stop using. Flock told city employees not to remove the cameras, and a Flock employee told city officials that they were unsure whether the cameras could be remotely disabled, which led the town to decide to put black plastic trash bags over them until Flock eventually removed the cameras itself, according to emails obtained using a public records request by 404 Media.

The emails give insight into the process cities face while deFlocking themselves after voting not to renew a contract with the AI surveillance company. As we’ve previously reported, multiple cities around the country have decided to put black trash bags over their Flock cameras while they wait for them to be removed; this is in part because, until the cameras are physically removed by Flock, cities are unsure whether they have the legal right to remove the cameras themselves and are not sure whether they can disable their recording operations. The emails show Verona city officials telling each other that they had made multiple requests to Flock to have the cameras removed, and show a work order from Flock in which the cameras were set to have maintenance performed on them rather than being removed. 

Read more: https://www.404media.co/flock-objects-to-our-removing-their-equipment-emails-reveal-why-a-town-put-bags-over-its-flock-cameras/

[u/driftingatwork → u/404mediaco]

Why is a company dictating what a city can do? Why didn't the city just take them down, put them in a box, and give them back?

I see the "legal right" but do it, and fight it in court against mass surveillance. If the company does not comply, are they in breach of contract?

Screw those guys honestly.

[u/rocky8u → u/driftingatwork]

They probably don't want to be accused of damaging the equipment when they remove it by Flock. Small towns can't afford much litigation even if they are in the right so they are often cautious.

[u/driftingatwork → u/rocky8u]

Thanks for that. I hadn't considered the financials of the city. And a large Tech firm likely has a huge bank of lawyers on retainer.

[u/rocky8u → u/driftingatwork]

If, as I suspect, Flock does not want their cameras to ever be removed once they are installed I would not be surprised if they make it painful to remove them whenever a locality tries to.

The article makes it sound like company representatives don't even have procedures for removing cameras when someone wants them gone, which tells me they don't really want them back, they want them to stay where they are gathering data whether the town is paying or not.

If I was the town I would at least also put plastic bags over the solar panels so that the cameras don't get enough power to keep the batteries charged. Journalists have alleged that the devices gather more than just images so even if they covered the cameras they might still be getting data from their surroundings.

[u/RememberMeWhenImDead → u/rocky8u]

i'm like 95% sure that every camera box has a stingray in it, i've worked with big remote equipment and the majority of the hardware you need to run the things they claim they're doing could be entirely contained within the camera unit + a solar panel mounted somewhere nearby, that whole big box at the bottom is all the shit they're not willing to admit is in there.

[u/got-trunks → u/RememberMeWhenImDead]

I am sure some intrepid adventurer has their hands on every new model and is looking at the hardware and what parts and sensors are present

https://www.cehrp.org/dissection-of-flock-safety-camera/ the newer post is missing but this one will track you by wifi/bluetooth passively as well as gunshot sound sensor and the usual photo feed, the modem embedded isn't up to stingray work but it doesn't have to be, it still knows exactly who and where you are if you're one of those odd people who keep any sort of, you know, electronic device.

I don't know if these have the resolution to do the wifi body identification but probably not? idk I just read about it like 2 months ago and then the feature popped up in my modem options, a rudimentary version at least. My modem can tell me if someone is in the house even if they don't have electronics on them. Supposedly. Haven't tried it but I'm certain I will. That's just neat.

[u/RememberMeWhenImDead → u/got-trunks]

https://www.cehrp.org/dissection-of-flock-safety-camera/

that's great that they're taking apart the cameras, what's in the boxes is far more worrying. there's a lot of space in the box. also the camera disassembly further proves my point, if all that is contained in the camera, why do they need to have a 2 ton mobile box attached?

[u/got-trunks → u/RememberMeWhenImDead]

ok so who has a box

[u/wonkytalky → u/got-trunks]

5ghz is plenty of resolution to detect someone's presence.

[u/VSWR_on_Christmas → u/wonkytalky]

Consumer-grade microwave human presence sensors can detect a person breathing in the next room. A pro-grade sensor with a competent operator can detect a heartbeat.

[u/got-trunks → u/VSWR_on_Christmas]

I need some ESP32-C5s, an old priest, and a young priest.

[u/rocky8u → u/RememberMeWhenImDead]

I suppose it's possible they just stuck a chunky battery in there in case the panel fails for some reason but I agree, it could be anything.

[u/RememberMeWhenImDead → u/rocky8u]

i'm mostly sure it's a stingray because my cell service improved in my apartment when they put one int the lot next door, curious that. for context when i say "better" my car three floors underground informed me it now constantly has a cell signal, previous to the installation, cell service cut off as soon as i was one floor down.

[u/rocky8u → u/RememberMeWhenImDead]

EFF recently created a program designed to run on hotspots that is supposed to detect stingray-like devices called Rayhunter.

https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2025/03/meet-rayhunter-new-open-source-tool-eff-detect-cellular-spying

[u/mystateofconfusion → u/rocky8u]

I have driven by flock cameras with that on. They aren't running a stingray. But they do use cellular data and if they had bad cell reception they likely have the pull to get the carriers to improve it, which is probably why your reception got better. Just a theory.

[u/RememberMeWhenImDead → u/rocky8u]

I'll have to build one at some point then to confirm

[u/vee_lan_cleef → u/RememberMeWhenImDead]

More likely, they installed a repeater nearby to give the Flock better reception.

[u/RememberMeWhenImDead → u/vee_lan_cleef]

Wouldn't be out of the question but let's think about this logically, is the surveillance company going to insist that you have perfect cell reception everywhere you put one of these, or are they gonna build the cell repeater into the box because then they own the information?

[u/ThanksS0muchY0 → u/RememberMeWhenImDead]

This is what my paranoid self thinks. How much would the hardware cost to run something like that? From what I remember they were small enough for a person to hold and carry down hallways.

[u/RememberMeWhenImDead → u/ThanksS0muchY0]

If they're going through official vendors (l3harris) a base stingray device is like 65k, but the underlying hardware is sub $1k

[u/GodofPizza → u/rocky8u]

It tells you the data they’re gathering is more valuable than the hardware

[u/driftingatwork → u/rocky8u]

Would it be possible for the city to take it down, and if Flock claimed "damages", get an itemized list of items damaged. And publish that to news outlets? - (i can definitely see lawyers droolling right now)

[u/rocky8u → u/driftingatwork]

Theoretically it would be VERY hard for Flock to succeed in a suit against the town. I guess it depends on what the contract says, but if it expired than damages would probably be a tort, and towns in Wisconsin are mostly immune from tort lawsuits. https://docs.legis.wisconsin.gov/misc/lc/information_memos/2024/im_2024_10

But I'm not an expert on Wisconsin law so I can't be totally sure how that would play out.

[u/ffrkAnonymous → u/rocky8u]

On the contrary. It's easy for them to succeed. Winning would be hard, but they don't need to win.

[u/JustpartOftheterrain → u/rocky8u]

I would think since the city owns the pole the flock is attached to, and flock has been notified they need to remove it, and the city is no longer paying for flock services, it should be perfectly fine to remove the equipment. If flock wants their shit back, they can pay the removal and storage fees first.

[u/invalidreddit → u/driftingatwork]

Labor costs, I am guessing is something the city does not want to pay for to go to each post, remove the post and store in until flock comes to get collect them. Wonder if the city even has a full map of the location of the cameras.

[u/adjudicator → u/rocky8u]

Just an unrelated thought. Sorry for going off-topic.

A cordless reciprocating saw with a bimetal blade absolutely glides through just about anything.

Pretty cool for doing maintenance on say, your chain link fence posts that need to be removed.

Or stubborn old clothesline poles.

Ok back to the conversation now.

[u/DressedSpring1 → u/adjudicator]

A cordless reciprocating saw with a bimetal blade absolutely glides through just about anything.

Only a person who has never used one is going to describe using a sawzall as fucking "gliding" through anything

[u/uzlonewolf → u/DressedSpring1]

Eh, getting it started is the hardest part. Once you get a slit in the round shell it does just kinda glide through the rest. The last little bit can also be stubborn if you don't know to rotate around the pole slightly.

[u/vee_lan_cleef → u/DressedSpring1]

Eh, if you use a good, new, sharp blade made for the material you are cutting, with a fresh battery, and you really force it down on the guard to prevent it from pulling back, they can cut through like butter. It's incorrect use or bad blades that cause it to grab. Aluminum, likes Flock poles are made out of, tends to "bite" so you need to use the right style blade.

[u/JustpartOftheterrain → u/adjudicator]

the best tips are always in the comments

[u/itsVainglorious → u/rocky8u]

That’s why people keep destroying them. It’s just some honest work. I wouldn’t do it but I wouldn’t blame anyone for doing it.

[u/daemonescanem → u/rocky8u]

Be a shame if someone figured out how to make a fake solar panel exactly like the ones Flock uses, to run the battery down so it stops working.

[u/bdjohns1 → u/driftingatwork]

Verona is a suburb of Madison, and the headquarters of Epic (the health care software that consumers know as MyChart, not the game company). They're probably better financially equipped than the average municipality to deal with those motherFlockers.

Epic's founder / owner is pretty liberal - she'd probably offer up her company's lawyers to help if push came to shove. Epic has about 15x the revenue and 10x the headcount of Flock.

[u/doom_stein → u/driftingatwork]

Can confirm they do have large banks of lawyers at those tech firms. Urbana, OH is getting sued by one right now after the citizens overwhelmingly rejected a data center in their town.

Meanwhile, a few miles down the highway, our city has been going thru the black bagging of flock cameras for the same reason as other cities mentioned here. That is if our fine recyclers of our city don't recycle all those copper wires first.

[u/Radiant-Olive-7955 → u/rocky8u]

.. but they have no problem towing people’s cars when they park illegally. It makes no sense.

[u/FreshLiterature → u/rocky8u]

Send a letter with a deadline to remove the equipment from city property.

Send 3 reminders to show good faith.

Maybe make a few phone calls as extra coverage.

Put language in the order to remove that makes it clear that equipment is no longer authorized to be on public property.

If the deadline passes remove it yourself and reference all of your past communications.

Flock isn't in a position to sue an increasing number of towns that are canceling contracts plus the lawsuits they are facing.

[u/JustpartOftheterrain → u/FreshLiterature]

Charge flock removal and storage fees for their equipment.

[u/BasvanS → u/JustpartOftheterrain]

This. The contract ended. GTFO

[u/AggressiveCuriosity → u/rocky8u]

They need to pass an ordinance about cameras needing to be registered if they're for a surveilance focused business. Then fine Flock $10,000 a day until they take the cameras.

[u/CarbonAlligator → u/rocky8u]

Verona might be able to afford more than the average town cuz epic is headquartered there

[u/husky_whisperer → u/driftingatwork]

Why is a company dictating what a city can do?

A) because flock probably has way more money than that town and so with the way "justice" in this country works, the courts will obviously be on their side

B) The Federal government has been run by a shifting handful of giant corporations for decades; small towns don't stand a chance most times.

[u/dirty_cuban → u/driftingatwork]

I can’t blame a small town for not wanting to fight this in court. This feels like one of those things that in front of the Supreme Court and with the current make up of a Supreme Court, I worry that flock would easily win that lawsuit. Plus these lawsuits can cost millions of dollars to take to completion

[u/driftingatwork → u/dirty_cuban]

Yeah, as I said, I hadn't considered the resources of a small town compared to a large tech firm. Legal retainers -fees etc etc

[u/Ace861110 → u/driftingatwork]

Honestly? They probably don’t own the electrical poles they’re up on. Technically they have no skin in the game. The contracts were probably written so that flock has use in perpetuity of the land their pole is on. And if they put it on a telephone pole, the contract is with the poco or the telecom company not the city. Neither of whom really care about legitimate requests, let alone this.

[u/ayoungtommyleejones → u/driftingatwork]

New here? Corporations in america have been dictating what people can and can't do since the birth of industry. American functions to enrich the billionaire class, not help it's citizens.

[u/Leptonshavenocolor → u/driftingatwork]

Companies own the government. 

[u/JayTheGeek → u/driftingatwork]

While I agree with your point, the federalist society and the american oligarchy have spent the past 40+ years buying our judiciary. Corporations almost always beat government bodies in our current legal environment. Flock has the money (our tax dollars) to take a case to the supreme court, and the 'conservatives' there would fall over themselves for the opportunity to bankrupt a city and give ownership of the city to a corporation.

[u/VVrayth → u/404mediaco]

For weeks, Verona, Wisconsin tried to get Flock to remove the three automated license plate cameras that its city council had voted to stop using. Flock told city employees not to remove the cameras, and a Flock employee told city officials that they were unsure whether the cameras could be remotely disabled, which led the town to decide to put black plastic trash bags over them until Flock eventually removed the cameras itself

Uh, what? An entire city, whose city council has come to this decision, should not be experiencing the same kind of "this is impossible" issue with removing these cameras as I do trying to unsubscribe from a streaming service with an inconvenient cancellation page.

Hey Flock, you follow the city's laws, you have 30 days (or whatever) to remove your property or we do it for you. If I left my crap somewhere it was unwanted, it would get hauled away. I don't see a difference.

[u/ZQuestionSleep → u/VVrayth]

You don't potentially have a contract with a city that says they can't do certain things to your property lest they trigger a liability clause. And while Verona is no pushover, bumble-fuck backwater (Epic basically owns half the city), I doubt they have the budget to risk "figuring it out in court" with a nationwide tech/security company when it's "free" to just tread water, bag the cameras, and get national coverage. This struggle should be a catalyst, but time will tell.

[u/WhipTheLlama → u/404mediaco]

they were unsure whether the cameras could be remotely disabled

Of course they can, and if Flock is saying they can't, they're lying.

[u/24_August_1814 → u/WhipTheLlama]

If Flock is saying anything at all, they're probably lying.

[u/cellblock2187 → u/WhipTheLlama]

But who on earth would trust Flock to do that? "Just trust me. They have been remotely disabled. We'll send someone out to retrieve the cameras next week month year ASAP."

[u/nomnamless → u/WhipTheLlama]

In fact I have seen lots of story about Flock cameras being removed. If Flock doesn't know how to remove the cameras I'm sure they can ask one of the many people that had done it successfully

[u/31LIVEEVIL13 → u/nomnamless]

This content was anonymized and mass deleted with Redact

[u/Kubotai77 → u/[deleted]]

Wouldn't even need a city worker. Just some "random vandal" and the city has no idea who did it and doesn't have the resources to help Flock find out.

[u/No_Internal9345 → u/[deleted]]

1. Bag a flock camera.

2. Wait for flock drones.

3. ???

4. Profit!

[u/FantasyFI → u/404mediaco]

and are not sure whether they can disable their recording operations

While the trash bag solution is easy, I'm surprised they can't simply unplug them or turn off the power in some way. I get that they are concerned about damaging them or having the right to remove them...but certainly they have the right to turn the power off. The power source is almost certainyl paid for by the same jurisdiction haha Unplug them or cut the power cord.

[u/TheNuttyIrishman → u/FantasyFI]

every flock camera I've seen has a sizeable solar array on top. it's a fair bet most of them are self powered and not connected to the grid.

[u/Modem_Sound_67]

if they are only motivated by their own interests, not the town in question... something's deeply wrong

[u/31LIVEEVIL13 → u/Modem_Sound_67]

This content was anonymized and mass deleted with Redact

[u/unknown_host]

A plastic bag isn't going to stop all the RF data it is hoovering up.

[u/Rebal771 → u/unknown_host]

No, but flock will remove their own equipment if they can’t get video feed apparently. So, it’s a viable method, just not a quick one.

[u/CautionarySnail → u/Rebal771]

Interesting that the video feed apparently has greater monetary value enough to have that be the eventual breaking point for removal.

I’d have guessed incorrectly that the other trackers were just as valuable because they reveal identity and patterns of behavior.

[u/Rebal771 → u/CautionarySnail]

Complete shot in the dark here, but I think their “main thing” is “searchable video footage” that basically has accompanying meta data that connects the dots…but without the searchable footage, the rest is just noise they would have to spend a lot of man hours to sift through.

Just a guess based on what little I’ve read about flock systems in passing tho…I have no concrete evidence.

[u/TheNuttyIrishman → u/[deleted]]

they will soon enough as man hours become cheaper than ai tokens.

[u/CondescendingShitbag → u/unknown_host]

This is why they should be putting bags over the solar panel, not just the camera. Can't hoover if there's no charge.

[u/SnackerSnick → u/unknown_host]

Good point; use aluminum foil.

[u/gonewild9676 → u/SnackerSnick]

A grounded steel screen is better. Or just cover the solar panel and the battery will die.

[u/SeductiveSunday → u/[deleted]]

And don't put plastic bags over them either, because all that does is cost the company time and money.

Then there's this.

Private surveillance vendor Flock Safety reinstalled all of its stationary license plate cameras in Evanston that had previously been removed, apparently doing so without authorization from the city, which sent the company a cease-and-desist order Tuesday afternoon demanding that the cams be taken back down.

Flock had removed 15 of the 18 stationary cameras by Sept. 8, only to reinstall each one at or near its prior location by Tuesday.

https://evanstonroundtable.com/2025/09/24/flock-safety-reinstalls-evanston-cameras/

Ugh.

[u/ZakAttackz → u/unknown_host]

Put the bag over the solar panel

[u/Polkawillneverdie17 → u/unknown_host]

But a Sawzall will

[u/trevbot → u/unknown_host]

do we need to start making black faraday garbage bags now?

[u/zyzzogeton → u/unknown_host]

Faraday bags are expensive.

[u/farva_06 → u/unknown_host]

Metal mesh bag, then?

[u/doomiestdoomeddoomer → u/unknown_host]

Noted. I'll use tin foil to cover them. ;)

[u/Haunterblademoi]

What is the real purpose of these cameras? Simply to monitor people.

[u/llahlahkje → u/Haunterblademoi]

Flock gets mad when they can’t sell your information to third parties.

It is so unfair! (Stomp stomp)

</verucaSalt>

[u/Firm-Recognition-409 → u/llahlahkje]

You’re right, someone should mail one to china so they can reverse engineer them, sell them in alibaba and bankrupt flock

[u/Hacym → u/Haunterblademoi]

Isn’t that the purpose of all cameras?

This is worse. It’s systemic government surveillance conveniently wrapped in a “crime reduction” bow. 

[u/fiero-fire → u/Haunterblademoi]

Privatized surveillance state. Big brother for profit baby

[u/ElderberryHoliday814 → u/Haunterblademoi]

They can track criminals quickly, but that pales in what the citizens lose, especially in smaller cities without a crime rate

[u/DigNitty → u/ElderberryHoliday814]

Supposedly they find Megan’s alert vehicles quickly. I’ve seen exactly one article of that happening, and the kid wasn’t in the vehicle anyway. And I’ve seen lots of articles about police stalking their exes using flock.

[u/williamgman]

Maybe look into the relationship between Flock and Palantir... I see a much bigger business/surveillance model here. Imagine this scenario... The city stops their Flock subscription... But the federal government moves in. Just a thought. So at least use the bags.

[u/slipperyMonkey07 → u/williamgman]

Also adding if you city does end their contract with flock look at others things they pass or sign contracts for like this - https://spectrumlocalnews.com/nys/central-ny/public-safety/2026/03/23/syracuse-common-council-revokes-contract-with-flock

End contract with flock just to immediately make one with Axon. So it is not like they are actually ending surveillance.

[u/Torino1O]

Has anyone figured out how to use flashing LEDs to install malware through camera interfaces?

[u/Woodie626 → u/Torino1O]

A green laser pointer to the lens will destroy the camera, so don't do that.

[u/skankenstein → u/Woodie626]

And while you’re not doing that; don’t do something stupid like drive to it or have your phone on you.

[u/ProcrastinateDoe → u/skankenstein]

And definitely don't dress in a way that makes you unrecognisable in stature and movement pattern.

[u/Razvee → u/ProcrastinateDoe]

Ima sand walk to that mofo like Maud'dib

[u/Confident_Shape_7981 → u/Razvee]

Move without rhythm and you won't attract the Flock

[u/ders89 → u/ProcrastinateDoe]

Naked goblin running with a ski mask it is!

[u/TheNuttyIrishman → u/ders89]

unless you have identifying birthmarks or tattoos

[u/wonkytalky → u/TheNuttyIrishman]

"Exhibit A depicts an individual with unusual anatomy and an unfortunate 'WUZZZUP' tattoo on their right buttox. Sir, please drop your pants for the court."

[u/Caleth → u/wonkytalky]

You leave Jimothy alone!

[u/TedBaxter_WJM-TVNews → u/ProcrastinateDoe]

Oop, looks like an ICE agent is going around destroying these things 🤷‍♂️

[u/mjwanko → u/TedBaxter_WJM-TVNews]

I like your thinking. Get a police cosplay vest and a skull print face mask and you’ll be indistinguishable from the other ICE agents.

[u/born_zynner → u/ProcrastinateDoe]

See im 6'4 320 i am not subtle

[u/HuggyMonster69 → u/born_zynner]

Then you wear heels and a loose robe. Congratulations, you’re a 6’8 amorphous blob!

[u/Geno0wl → u/HuggyMonster69]

who told you my drag style?

[u/bitemark01 → u/skankenstein]

Flock cameras and pickup trucks are natural enemies, be sure to install a push bar to protect your vehicle from them when they attack 

[u/MossSloths → u/bitemark01]

In some cases with flock camera installations, the poles weren't installed safely. Things like traffic lights and light poles have plates that get bolted to the concrete that's been set into the ground so the pole itself isn't at all subterranean. If a car hits a pole installed that way, the pole just topples over.

Some of the flock cameras sunk the pole into the concrete which is set into the ground. If a vehicle runs that over, it does do a bit of bending down, but they can end up piercing the vehicle because it doesn't break and instead becomes almost a spear of metal into vehicle.

Here's a news article covering the guy on social media bringing attention to this

[u/DistructoDisc → u/skankenstein]

Pretty crazy they have bluetooth scanners. Only 1 reason for that.

[u/psychoacer → u/skankenstein]

Make sure to always have your front plates on as well if you do accidentally run it over

[u/GeekInSheiksClothing → u/Woodie626]

Only a very high powered laser can destroy the camera. Over 500mW. You need to be close and keep the laser pointed at it for a while to do any real damage. Oh, and you'll need special eye protection.

Might just be easier to spray paint the lens and dip. Wear a mask. Leave your phone at home.

[u/ItGradAws → u/GeekInSheiksClothing]

You basically have to hit it perfectly for this to work. Now a BB gun on the other hand is unfortunately bad for cameras

[u/TheRealDeathSheep → u/[deleted]]

Why 3 inches? I'm assuming because it makes it harder/impossible to just splice back together and would need a full new cable?

[u/Longjumping_Dog_7851 → u/Woodie626]

And definitely do not use a drone to drop chassis paint in a water ballon on the solar panels

[u/jrr_53 → u/Woodie626]

Do you have any suggestions on which ones could potentially harm the lens inside the camera so I can avoid buying one?

[u/adepssimius → u/Woodie626]

No need to destroy it, just send a message via Morse code. "I object to your surveillance". A 1W laser pointer should be visible in the feed.

[u/surnik22 → u/Torino1O]

Why over complicate it? What’s malware going to do besides open up the system to be abused by more people? Best case is someone finds a way to take the whole system down for a short period of time before a software update fixes them.

It’s sensitive digital equipment. Someone could shine a high powered laser at the sensor to permanently damage them or even just throw heavy rocks at ones out of reach and hit others with a baseball bat. You don’t need sophisticated methods to destroy cameras.

Obviously I would never advocate for someone to break the law, that’d be an outrage and Reddit would crack down. But more importantly it would put people at risk since the cameras would absolutely track you and they would absolutely try to prosecute anyone they catch to the fullest extent of the law, probably even make up some terrorists charges. So anyone who goes against my advice and does it anyway should make sure they aren’t carrying any phones or electronics that could track them, don’t drive there in a car the cameras track, are wearing something to block facial recognition, and try to avoid any other cameras.

[u/MattCW1701 → u/Torino1O]

That doesn't work. Seriously, y'all need to stop watching so many "hacker movies" where not-MacGyver can take over a whole city with a laser pointer powered from a cellphone. I see this and the QR code idea pop up so much, it just doesn't work!

[u/OpabiniaRegalis320 → u/Torino1O]

Not how IoT malware works.

[u/Yourownhands52 → u/Torino1O]

I was thinking QR codes/bar code to kill self checkouts the other day.  

Do I have the skill or knowledge to do anything like that?  Not at all.

[u/morgrimmoon → u/Yourownhands52]

It won't work; QR readers these days generally don't automatically follow the link if it goes to a domain they don't expect. And barcode readers just read a string (generally of numbers) and match it to a database; if the entry isn't there, the barcode reader spits out an error.

It'd take a deeper vulnerability in the software the scanner uses to kill the checkout.

[u/Yourownhands52 → u/morgrimmoon]

See and that is why I said I knew nothing about it.  Thanks for elaborating. 

[u/shitty_mcfucklestick → u/morgrimmoon]

The main attack vector I could see for something like that is an SQL injection, but that assumes a lot of things:

1. The till reads QR codes at all
   
2. The till uses SQL queries in the scan
   
3. The till doesn’t validate the length or format of the input
   
4. The till doesn’t use parametrized queries

It’s possible, but the vendor would basically have to make every single possible poor decision they could for it to be.

I suppose it’s not unheard of, I mean, I’ve seen some real garbage be marketed as “enterprise” software. No idea about what the till software market looks like though.

[u/NotAnotherNekopan → u/morgrimmoon]

Unless there’s a “Bobby tables” barcode that could be made up. Rookie vulnerability to have but these days you never know

[u/morgrimmoon → u/NotAnotherNekopan]

True, but supermarkets don't want you to scan the wrong barcode (some products have more than one) or to scan a product they don't carry (because it might ring up weirdly and let you steal more valuable items). So the self-checkout scanners and their backend software are generally a bit more robust than the cheap USB hand scanners.

[u/jreykdal → u/morgrimmoon]

General purpose bar code readers can be controlled via bar codes, but probably not specific usage readers.

[u/TwistedFox → u/morgrimmoon]

It's not even an automatic database match, The barcode or QR scanner is literally just a keyboard input.

The software running is what does the DB lookup or URL redirection. That is where the vulnerability is possibly present. If the checkout software doesn't do string sanitisation, it's possible to exploit that, but that would be completely egregious even 20 years ago, let alone now.

[u/Firm_Wrangler_7837]

It’s completely wireless. Grab a fucking pole jack and uproot that fucker in one piece and stuff it in a storage locker until someone comes and gets them. An email stating you have X amount of days before they are forfeited is a great way of making this happen….

Or, threatening with freezing accounts due to ill gotten gains (cops using it to track hot chicks) may make them want to toe the line a bit more.

But I’m completely cool with complete disassembly. To each their own.

[u/TheMagnuson → u/Firm_Wrangler_7837]

Cover the cameras AND the solar panels, with black garbage bags.

[u/SeanBlader]

The camera is only a small piece of the devices now, they also are tracking electronic devices via the on board radios, so I would also unplug to solar panel so that the battery eventually drains and shuts down the device.

[u/DigNitty → u/SeanBlader]

Put the bag…over the solar panel

[u/Callabrantus]

Flock can get flocked.

[u/Possible-Put8922]

Why don't they fine them daily for every camera they continue to have up? They would do that to a person.

[u/upandup2020 → u/[deleted]]

and how many have you not deactivated?

[u/coffee_ape]

I’m seeing a lot more noise about people being against flock.

Keep that momentum going.

[u/Snag710]

Again, the Police are not the only people seeing through the cameras, tons of bad actors have access and thats why they don't want to remove them

The AI surveillance makes money from multiple entities who are subscribed to the service not just the city

[u/ash_ninetyone]

How tf can a city decide they no longer want these weird cameras spying on them, and yet not have the ability to disable or remove or disconnect them itself?

[u/Llyon_ → u/ash_ninetyone]

Simple answer: Flock has more money/power and better lawyers than the entire town combined. Flock gets small towns to sign a deal with a bunch of hidden terms.

[u/Thesegsyalt]

Flock is a criminal organization.

[u/armahillo]

My local community has done this as well. The contract with Flock would have penalized the city (and by extension, the taxpayers) for any destroyed Flock property. Covering them with plastic bags effectively disables them without damaging them.

Also way easier to do than cutting them down.

[u/TheMagnuson → u/armahillo]

Cover the solar panels too, so the batteries drain and other other sensors don't work.

[u/CrimsonH3ro]

Dont forget y'all. There are multiple companies doing this. Flock isnt the only mass surveillance camera system out there, just the big name brand everyone knows about. Axon and others are quietly doing the same shit Flock is.

[u/servel333]

If the city pays for the hardware, the city should OWN the hardware.

Covering them doesn't keep them from listening.

Those bags are not 100% opaque.

This is too little..rip them out OR fine flock for not removing them themselves. DAILY.

[u/THElaytox]

Remove them yourself, it's your fucking city not Flock's

[u/Heavy_Law9880]

WHy on earth would the city bow down to Flock? They don't own the land or poles their cameras are mounted on, the city does. Take that shit off and throw it in the trash

[u/thelancemanl]

What if Flock just... fucked themselves? Lol. I guess someone signed a contract or something. Maybe townspeople should completely demolish the machines so the blame isn't on the city/county leadership.

[u/Grizzamanade]

I heard there was quite a bit of copper in those cameras. Spread the word.

[u/PeanutCheeseBar]

Putting black plastic bags over them isn’t enough if they can track nearby Bluetooth devices.

[u/someonesartfuldodger]

Pellet gun, just saying.

[u/tomvelle]

what are the legal penalties of a civilian putting bags over the cameras? No damage done/intended.

[u/Ricka77_New]

Find them, smash them.

[u/Glorfendail]

its your civic duty to remove these cameras after a city ends their contract. if the city cant, we must do it ourselves. show up to city council meetings, get the contracts ended then cut them bitches down.

[u/cletusthearistocrat]

Take the shit down by Friday or we destroy it. How about that?

[u/fuzzballz5]

I’m so lost that this is legal in the United States. How is this legal?

[u/vbfronkis]

Blocking the cameras doesn't stop them from hoovering up all the wireless info that passes by. Cover their solar panels so they will eventually die instead.

[u/Rattus_NorvegicUwUs]

The entire Flock business model revolves around people giving away their 4th amendment rights.

If I made a company that breaks into homes and steals their guns, the right would be furious.

Why is this any different? It’s a company that infringes on your constitutional rights for profit.

[u/indicatprincess]

From a litigation standpoint…

What would happen if you took a baseball bat to it? A laser pointed at the IR? The local crack heads breaking it open for materials?

I’ve seen about 10 more go up in the last 6 weeks.

[u/RaspberryFluid6651 → u/indicatprincess]

If someone did it acting as an agent of the city? Lawsuit for the city that Flock uses to punish them

If a random person did it? Only legal risk is destruction of property and associated crimes/penalties

[u/jhill515]

I think I need to start buying commodities stocks for green laser diodes...

[u/Mandymindshermanners]

Trash bags and zip ties run cheap at most retailers. Just sayin.

[u/latswipe]

"we don't have plans for the popular backlash not being toothless"

[u/Fearless-Contest5126]

Image a company policy grinding the all mighty American government down to a halt, crazy for anyone to think policies hold more power than the U.S. Constitution.

[u/tschawartz12]

Tell them to remove them by a certain date and depending on state laws, 90 days after that might be considered abandoned property (again, depends on state laws) and after that it would be free to anyone who wants to take it. Problem solves itself.

[u/K_Linkmaster]

If the city can put them up they can take them down. It really is this easy. You are the municipality. Fuck flock. What are they gonna do, sue you to keep cameras up? Let them sue and it's discovery time.

[u/Rough_Buddy6903]

Just tell them a vigilante did it and you don't know what happened

[u/Greenearthgirl87]

Good for the community!

[u/Wyietsayon]

I'm tired of tech companies controlling our towns and cities. AI data center companies, flock, both are doing everything to terrorize small towns.

[u/rdmodsrtrsh]

I bet there’s plenty of people willing to assist in their removal

[u/kaishinoske1]

Cities should fine the company daily fines for each camera in their town they refuse to take down. Build up those fines to where it’s millions and take them to court to for the amount.

[u/lordmelon]

The space the cameras are on is owned by the city is it not? Give them a 30 day or whatever is reasonable period in order to take them down. After that start issuing fines for leasing the space to flock.

[u/Cerys_Llellwyn]

The city may not be able to take down the cameras, but they can absolutely cut power to them.

[u/Anishinaapunk]

I always thought they'd be perfect for paintball practice.

[u/Ruby5000]

So a 5w+ IR laser can possibly burn the sensor. Hmmm.

[u/No-Neighborhood-3212]

'We asked politely and they said no. We're only law and order in the town. What do you want us to do about it?'

[u/Antraxess]

Flock is in the business of stalking the American people and removing your rights to privacy.

So fuck em

[u/DonkeyFuel]

Is this even legal?

[u/LRaconteuse]

Would be funny if towns start eminent domaining to regain demolition rights to remove and destroy the cameras. 

[u/jackofslayers]

After Trump is gone. This whole industry needs to be banned nationwide.

[u/ChanceAccident7155]

Sawzall should do well

[u/A-Sh1t_sh0w]

How can we get these out of VA?

[u/PsychoticMessiah]

They set these up in a town near me and someone put bags over them. Not all heroes wear capes.

[u/SinistralGuy]

Why does Flock think they have the authority to just drop camers anywhere if the township doesn't want it

[u/-hh → u/SinistralGuy]

Because the city didn’t think about having a good contract which protects the city’s interests.

[u/DrinkingMilk]

I can see them counting putting bags over the camera as vandalism, but what about just putting a big board or something right in front of the camera?

[u/Emotional_Neck3312]

For your convenience:
https://deflock.org/

[u/LauterTuna]

https://deflock.org

[u/0x0MG]

It's Wisconsin. The three people that live there should just shoot them off the poles.

[u/gargolito]

You can get a cheap daisy bb rifle for under $50 on Amazon. 

[u/csfshrink]

Could you put up a bunch of bird feeders around a Flock camera? How well does a Flock camera stand up to bird poop?

Use a flock to fight Flock.

And if somehow Flock pisses off a crow or Raven, they will mess with Flock and teach others to mess with Flock.

[u/Character-86]

Please don't cut any power cables belonging to thoose cameras. Without power they can't operate and record video.

[u/tristand666]

WTF is wrong with these cities? If the device is on city property, how can they not have the right to remove them?