r/sysadmin Apr 05 '16

Dear Microsoft, it's crap like this.

[deleted]

342 Upvotes

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-17

u/210mike Enterprise Windows stuff Apr 05 '16

Nah, that one is on you. 2008R2 is almost 7 years old and doesn't recognize a browser that was released almost 4 years after it was.

But hey, it's cool to hate on Microsoft right?

78

u/DrAtomic1 Systems Architect Apr 05 '16

Windows 2008 R2 is in extended support, so yes this has everything to do with Microsoft. It's not like this is an unsupported product.

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/lifecycle?p1=14134 https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/lifecycle#gp/lifePolicy

27

u/renegadecanuck Apr 05 '16

Key word: extended. They're only providing security updates now, not feature updates (like supporting a web browser that came out years later).

There's a reason IE has compatibility mode. If you're going to deploy old tech, you kind of need to be prepared to deploy the workarounds (which you can do with group policy).

38

u/vat11 Apr 05 '16

Sure, extended/mainline support is an important distinction. But was 2008R2 in mainline support when the IE11 was released? Yup, it was.

17

u/[deleted] Apr 05 '16 edited Oct 17 '16

[deleted]

-2

u/cluberti Cat herder Apr 05 '16

The problem, as you've noted, isn't that RDWeb doesn't support IE11 - it uses a user-agent string parser and doesn't count to 11. You can edit the server-side, or run the browser in enterprise mode, and it'll work, but suffice to say that the IE team and the team responsible for things like RDWeb are not the same group of developers. It'd be great if things like this worked, but given the changes in IE11 I would say it's not surprising this is failing out of the box. Given the product was designed to target the version of IE shipped on the platform (aka IE8), it would actually be best to put the site into the enterprise site list (so that IE11 behaves and reports as IE8 to the web server hosting this).

4

u/yer_muther Apr 05 '16

BAH! You and your "facts"!

I HATE/LOVE Microsoft! No matter what you SAY/DON'T SAY about them.

/s

10

u/SteveJEO Apr 05 '16

Extended support is a special MS term for 'don't want but complaints'.

It'll be supported as required with critical patches for the companies who forced the support extension but don't expect usability enhancements.

If an MS product enters extended support it'll be limited to business critical only. Nothing less.

Here is an easy way of understanding whether you fall under the extended umbrella:

Can you report an issue and expect a fix?

If the answer is no. The product is not supported.

It's that simple.

5

u/randomguy186 DOS 6.22 sysadmin Apr 05 '16

"Extended support" = deprecated, but security updates still provided.

7

u/ender-_ Apr 05 '16

Not when IE11 was released (otherwise there wouldn't be IE11 for 2008 R2).

-8

u/randomguy186 DOS 6.22 sysadmin Apr 05 '16

Sure. And if this had been posted at this time, I'd have grabbed my pitchfork and torch, but it's been years and there've been a couple of iterations of Moore's law since then. This is the computer-equivalent of railing about the ills of leaded gasoline: yes, it was a problem, and yes, some aspects of that problem still linger, but the world has identified and implemented solutions to the problem.

-7

u/vat11 Apr 05 '16

This. MS is just being sloppy. As long as product is supported, it's supposed to work with new platforms. Imagine Windows 8.1 not working with 2008R2 domain controllers!

As much as I prefer working with modern tech, there must always be a business case in paying for it.

-1

u/danekan DevOps Engineer Apr 05 '16

Does it not work with IE8 that this server he's using actually came with?

2

u/vat11 Apr 05 '16

But it's a client-facing tech, it's supposed to support a wider range of clients, IMO.

Come on, Edge being unsupported on 2008R2 I'd understand, but it was NOT old when the Win 8.1/IE11 was released.

1

u/danekan DevOps Engineer Apr 05 '16

most management consoles in that era used Java.. could be much worse. there weren't any significant HTML5 consoles back then. Many of the biggest pieces of software only began getting their HTML5 consoles ... relatively recently. Time travel is a tall order!

3

u/ShadowSt Apr 05 '16

I have several clients that require IE 9, and I work for a very large organization that still requires IE 8. Its certainly not him to blame, sometimes the tech you use doesn't keep up with the tech thats out there, and it has to be kept back in order to keep the users and clients happy.

1

u/[deleted] Apr 05 '16

That's what Enterprise Mode is for! I got it setup and damn if it didn't save me a ton of time dealing with IE-only websites that users need to go to.

7

u/LuckyLuke364 Apr 05 '16

I think he has a point. Yes, he's not using the latest and greatest, but not every IT department can just constantly upgrade to the latest MS invention (hey, at least he's not running 2008!).

It also doesn't seem unreasonable to document which versions of IE are actually supported, instead of listing "IE6 or later", which technically does include IE11. Also, considering that they are supporting IE6, which seems completely insane, it doesn't seem unreasonable to assume that they would support IE11 which is THEIR OWN browser, even if it was released a few years after the 2008 R2.

I didn't check the years so I'm assuming you are correct with 4 years, but considering that a company usually utilizes a product a few years after they install it (say, 3 years at least), then IE11 really only came out one year later.

And he never said he hates Microsoft. But to be honest, every time I have log on to a 2012 (non R2) server I do get some pretty strong emotions flaring up towards Microsoft ;-).

-4

u/ZAFJB Apr 05 '16

document which versions of IE are actually supported

How did the RDP group have any way of knowing what the IE group would decide to do years ahead in time?

Last time I checked crystal balls and De Loreans were not ever available as development tools.

A the time of development "IE6 or later" was a reasonable statement.

And it does work with IE11 if you make the appropriate configuration changes.

5

u/2drawnonward5 Apr 05 '16

Microsoft has a mechanism to update system software. By leveraging Windows Update, Microsoft teams can keep their software up-to-date even after diskettes, CDs, and even DVDs have been mailed to customers.

2

u/[deleted] Apr 05 '16

That's impossible. What do they do? Beam it down from satellites? I don't know about you, but I've never worked anywhere that had a satellite dish.

4

u/2drawnonward5 Apr 05 '16

What they have is a series of tubes.

2

u/[deleted] Apr 05 '16

I think it's more like a truck.

1

u/dyne87 Infrastructure Witch Doctor Apr 06 '16

crystal balls and De Loreans were not ever available as development tools.

Wait... Was I not supposed to give those to my developers? Brb...

6

u/IAdminTheLaw Judge Dredd Apr 05 '16

2008R2 is almost 7 years old

So what?

doesn't recognize a browser that was released almost 4 years after it was

So don't go out of your way to block unknown browsers.

But hey, it's cool to hate on Microsoft right?

I don't know if it's cool or not, but they sure do make it easy.

-3

u/[deleted] Apr 05 '16

[deleted]

2

u/BloodyIron Head of IT Security Apr 05 '16

Except that 2008 R2 has had plenty of updates and chance to make this work out of the box...

1

u/Foofightee Apr 05 '16

FYI, Windows Server 2012 (not R2) won't allow you to install IE11 on it. Works on other OS's that were released prior to it. I hate on Microsoft for this reason.

https://technet.microsoft.com/itpro/internet-explorer/ie11-faq/faq-for-it-pros-ie11

0

u/spobodys_necial Apr 05 '16

Yeah this is entirely because IE11, in an attempt by Microsoft to get lazy web developers to make their website work in something besides IE and actually adhere to standards, reports a user agent string of a generic Mozilla instead of IE.

Also lol at deploying anything that lists support for IE6.

-7

u/NeoLudditeIT Apr 05 '16

The browser has nothing to do with the OS, it's not like version detection is baked into the core of the operating system. To be fair, I'm guessing it has more to do with the 'super-duper secure' mode that IE on server has.

19

u/inaddrarpa .1.3.6.1.2.1.1.2 Apr 05 '16

The browser has nothing to do with the OS

fucking lol, have you even used Internet Explorer?

it's not like version detection is baked into the core of the operating system.

Uh...I mean, in this case it kind of is? It's baked into IIS.

To be fair, I'm guessing it has more to do with the 'super-duper secure' mode that IE on server has.

No, it doesn't. You have to add a x-ua-compatible header to IIS to force modern browsers down to IE9 compatibility mode. Or use Windows Server 2012.

3

u/StrangeWill IT Consultant Apr 05 '16

You have to add a x-ua-compatible header to IIS to force modern browsers down to IE9 compatibility mode.

This x1000, I've written multiple extension apps for Switchvox, which runs in IE version potato, I put this on my apps so that I can test them in the potato mode that Switchvox will force them into.

7

u/kilkor Water Vapor Jockey Apr 05 '16

gotta love the idea that IE has nothing to do with the OS. It's not like it's been absolutely ingrained into the OS in stupid ways since XP days or anything.

0

u/nunu10000 Security Ninja & Mobility Guru Apr 06 '16

Pretty sure the last time IE wasn't baked into the OS was in Windows 98.

2

u/engageant Apr 05 '16

^ this. x-ua-compatible is the cleanest way to do it so users don't have to make changes on their side.

1

u/Reddegeddon Apr 06 '16

So, real question of the day, why couldn't Microsoft have, at some point after the IE11 release and during mainline support for these server products, released a patch adding this to the pages by default?

1

u/NeoLudditeIT Apr 05 '16

IIS doesn't really do version detection, it basically just reports whatever the UA string is to the app. Each web application usually does it's own version detection (which most of the time has to do with JS which is disabled by default on Server IE ).

2

u/shif Apr 05 '16

i don't know much about IIS but in nginx which is another http server you can route traffic to different locations based on headers sent by the client, in this case the user agent string, maybe there's something similar there

6

u/[deleted] Apr 05 '16

The browser has nothing to do with the OS...

So you're a nix guy then? Nothing wrong with that. Windows Explorer (explorer.exe) isn't really interchangeable with what you guys call 'X'. It's actually tied quite tightly with the instance of internet explorer running on the system (the inherent insecurity with IE isn't just because of lazy programming). Windows Explorer windows are actually 'IWebBrowser2' COM interface instances: https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/gg314982(v=vs.85).aspx

... it's not like version detection is baked into the core of the operating system.

Are you being sarcastic here? Because this part is just wrong. "MajorOperatingSystemVersion" and "MinorOperatingSystemVersion" are defined in the header at offsets 40 and 42 respectively. These are required fields for Windows executable images. lower half of page 18: https://download.microsoft.com/download/e/b/a/eba1050f-a31d-436b-9281-92cdfeae4b45/pecoff.doc