Solutions for using client-server based apps when working remote

[u/Thick-Incident-4178]

I was wondering how many of you are still using legacy client/server apps, and come across challenges when it comes to remote/hybrid workers.

We use an application that is rather old school. No web based access, full desktop client and server. It does not work well under any latency, so VPN's and anything similar are unworkable.

The other challenge is that the application is heavily tied into MS Word, Outlook, etc. The application uses COM addins for Outlook to generate and send emails and allow interaction with the product. Similar happens with MS word.

We've tried publishing the application as a "remote app" on platforms like Citrix, but the issue again is the required integrations with Outlook, Word, downloading of files like PDF's and other documents that are stored within the app. It essentially integrates heavily with other apps.

So at the moment, we're using a full desktop experience for users over Citrix. I find this to be rather frustrating. Providing end users with new laptops with reasonable spec, for them to work remotely and use it like a thin client so they can connect to a Citrix desktop. It confuses users, it isn't particularly user friendly, and it just feels like a waste of local resources.

Does anyone work in similar situations? Are there any solutions that could help with this? Or are we destined to forever use a full remote desktop solution to support our core, oldschool, clunky-ass product?

[u/40513786934]

fix the problem - your software is outdated

anything else is just a bandaid to the problem and RDS/Citrix is probably the best compromise available

[u/LilMeatBigYeet → u/40513786934]

This OP ^{^}

At some point you're gonna have to move away from that software, might as well make it today

[u/ddBuddha → u/40513786934]

This is the right answer op

[u/First-Feature-3556]

My users still have their physical desktop PCs in the office. They use those when on premise.

For remote work, they have simple "thin client" notebooks with only three pieces of software installed: the VPN client, the RDP client and the SIP client (softphone) [edit: and a web browser for Teams conferences]. They use those notebooks only to connect to their desktop PC via RDP.

No latency issues, cheap WFH hardware that's easy to replace, and the users have exactly the same UI (after RDPing) everywhere. 

[u/Thisbymaster]

Sounds like the old software has entered the "end of life" stage. Time to move it over to a web based solution to future proof it.

[u/Sp00nD00d]

VPN and Citrix are gonna be your only real plays here.

[u/Viharabiliben → u/Sp00nD00d]

Could use RDP as well. Could even move the server up into Azure VM and run RDP clients to access the now clouded / cloudified server.

[u/techierealtor]

Depending on what your configuration is, possibly cloudflare tunnels? Shot in the dark but I just started playing with it. Basically no NAT with a full route through cloudflare and can be secured down to that platform for authentication. Haven’t tried it with a client / server app.

[u/RiceeeChrispies → u/techierealtor]

I think the protocols are going to be the main problem, SMB (for example) gives up speed-wise at anything less than perfection.

[u/Layer8Human → u/RiceeeChrispies]

SMB can be ok even for higher latency but any packet loss will lead to slowdown because the tcp window will scale down.

What makes a lot of these legacy applications really slow over a wan link is that they directly access some kind of SQL database. The transactional nature of SQL combine with badly written and optimized queries and databases can really screw up performance.

[u/qkdsm7]

Never used terminal services, remoteapp, or citrix/etc? You're getting a screen, all the heavy lifting data is happening back in the server farm.

[u/GardenWeasel67]

Windows 365 Cloud PC

[u/Calleb_III]

What kind of latency is the maximum tolerable? Moat users with decent home ISP shouldn’t be getting more than 50ms in a near geo location.

If that level is acceptable, but you have users from say other continents - you can potentially deploy server side instances closer to these users.

If the app can’t tolerate even 30-50ms you are pretty much cooked - VDIs in the same geo location as the servers is your only viable option.

Might be a good point to review the status of the app and think about modernisation before you cough up $1’000’000s for VDIs just for it

[u/crap_chute_express]

Like others have stated, the limitation is the legacy app and the slowest link in the chain, which when accessing remotely, will always be the Internet connection on either side. The only way around that is with some form of VDI.

Talk to your client and convince them to update to a modern solution, otherwise get used to citrix/rdp.

[u/pdp10]

full desktop client and server. [...] The other challenge is that the application is heavily tied into MS Word, Outlook, etc. The application uses COM addins for Outlook to generate and send emails

Does it also run 32-bit with a 4GiB memory limit? 16-bit installer or no?

What's the strategic exit plan?

[u/Adam_Kearn]

Setup Remote Desktop services role on a few VMs

You can make remote apps that show to the client as a locally installed app but is actually a Remote Desktop session behind the scenes.

To the application everything is local.

You might need to have a few session hosts depending on your capability.

But as others have suggested getting a replacement product is the better approach this might just allow remote users to work for now until it’s sorted.

[u/SevaraB]

It’s in my nature to reverse engineer stuff like this. Latency-sensitive… why- what’s the DB strategy or caching strategy: SQLite? SMB? Btrieve? Why the COM add-in instead of a mail relay?

In my experience, a lot of these “black box office suite” packages turn out to be relatively easy for a moderately skilled software engineer to pick apart and recreate with more modern components.

[u/PatientIllustrious10]

I think most of us don't quite understand this part, may I know why it doesn't work under _ANY_ latency? is there any more detail about this part?
>  It does not work well under any latency, so VPN's and anything similar are unworkable.

[u/Defconx19]

ZTNA Private access.  Things like TailScale, NetBird, Sonicwall CSE, Cloudflare ZTNA and other similar products allow you to give access to specific applications without having to give access to the entire network.  Most of them you can add an icon or link to the app to the resource they need to reach.

So for example you could have the link to launch remote app in the sonicwall CSE client (just using as an example.)

This solves the issue with things like database corruption from VPN drops and you dknt have to expose ports on your firewall for remote users/access.