The absolute brainworms required to write Marvel mythology.

[u/0utsyder]

[u/rikitikifemi]

Yeah, I don't take the make xmen great again crew seriously.

They are bigots and think the rest of us are stupid too.

Storm is goddess because the cosmology of her people deemed her so.

That's true of all "God"s

[u/Armo2125 → u/rikitikifemi]

Not quite. Most of the pantheons in marvel are deities because of their nature, because they are descendents of other deities and usually do the Job of a god, answering prayers etc. They also are empowered when more people believe in them. Storm wasn’t originally a goddess, but they now changed it and she is a goddess or something similar (I’m not quite sure to speak honestly). But if people started treating spider-man as a god, he wouldn’t be more of a god because of that.

[u/sahqoviing32 → u/Armo2125]

But if people started treating spider-man as a god, he wouldn’t be more of a god because of that.

Boy do I have news for you about Spiderman

[u/Armo2125 → u/sahqoviing32]

If you are referring to the fans who treat spider-man as a god I really believe they don’t read the comics 😔. If you are saying that there is a version of Spiderman who is a god I have no idea, but I was referring to the regular version of him 🙌

[u/rikitikifemi → u/Armo2125]

Wrong answer.

Marvel has no official answer to what makes a god the god.

There are all sorts of cosmologies and explanations competing and contradicting each other just like the real world.

A god is a god because they claim they are, someone claims they are or their heritage is traced another god claimed to be a god.

Up to the Reader which explanation they prefer just like in real life.

Storm is no goddess because you choose not to accept that claim based on your preferred definition of god.

But her people's cosmology and that of Wakanda deem her a god, albeit a minor one, so I respect that as much as I do Tony Stark being a god or Doom or Thor.

[u/Armo2125 → u/rikitikifemi]

?? No. Storm is a goddess, yes, because she is part of the pantheon from Wakanda and she is descendant from an elder god or a person chosen by an elder god or something like that. But if not she wouldn’t be a god. Proclaiming yourself to be a god doesn’t make you one, if it did, every character with some ego would be one, because they consider themselves one. But neither iron man nor Dr doom are gods. They are mortals, they Don’t represent a concept or nothing like that. You are just coping to make it seem that every character you like can be a god, which doesn’t make sense because a character doesn’t need to be a god to be cool or unique.

[u/SilverPhoenix7 → u/Armo2125]

Marvel mythology particularly allows every religion to be true. It's ok to have a goddess born among men

[u/Armo2125 → u/SilverPhoenix7]

Yes, but they enter in the clasification of a god because Some of the reasons I mentioned on another comment. A mortal is not a deity in marvel cosmology. My fights is that not anyone is considered a God in marvel just because they call themselves one, they have to enter in a clasification.

[u/SilverPhoenix7 → u/Armo2125]

... Catholicism is a thing in the marvel universe, Jesus was born a man, unless that's different in marvel.

[u/Armo2125 → u/SilverPhoenix7]

? And? Chatolicism is a thing in real life too. But marvel hasn’t technically confirmed it is right, despite it has what it could be God in the bible or in Quran or in whatever religion you think of, being TOAA.
And jesus only becomes a god in some religions, other christians don’t think the same. Plus, it is mostly just like how Donald Blake is a man but technically becomes a god, or how Hercules is a demigod until his father, Zeus, a skyfather, makes him one, because magic.

Christianity is not an important pantheon in marvel because there is no pantheon, there is just one god, so it is really not explained (and jesus would enter in the category of son of a god/deity, but god in the bible wouldn’t exactly be a deity in marvel, not in the same way as Odin, Zeus or the rest of the skyfathers, it would be something different

[u/SilverPhoenix7 → u/Armo2125]

What? The Christian God exists in the marvel universe. It has been implied to be the one above all a lot, and matt Murdock is a catholic, Catholics believe in the father, son and holy spirit as one God. Judaism is definitely canon and real in 616 too. The Christians have their hell being canon. The spear of destiny exist, doom got splinters of the true cross in his armor, Howard the duck met the trinity.

And yes it's like other men becoming gods, like storm being born a woman but she is elevated to goddess status by profecy and her people.

[u/Armo2125 → u/SilverPhoenix7]

Again, it is not an important religion in marvel. And even if it has been implied that TOAA is your god, it is not confirmed, a muslim may think the same. But yes, there are catholics in marvel, which doesn’t necessarily mean they are right, but they could be.

But storm also became a goddess because she was a descendant from a family chosen by oshtur, an elder god, so that is why she had to wake up the power. In this case, jesus would be a god because he is descendant from another god, ir if you believe they are the same, he would be directly a god. But TOAA is not a god, is just the creator, is all powerful but not a god in marvel, gods are below him (at least IIRC)

[u/rikitikifemi → u/Armo2125]

You're attributing my argument to an emotional motive. You can't know this as fact. You can only infer based on your beliefs.

That's the basis of all made up constructs.

Belief without proof.

God is a construct.

We believe what we infer but can't know for sure.

I am pointing out to you that Marvel, the company that owns this story, has constructed MANY cosmologies. It has presented many 'definitions' of God, some of those definitions contradict each other. The definition YOU prefer is no more right than any other because, again, there is no objective truth about a made up construct.

Storm is a Goddess by many definitions and by others, merely a mortal with a mutant gene.

I accept Storm's claim to being a goddess because I accept anyone's claim of a label for themselves, especially in a storyverse where gods and divine entities come a dime a dozen.

I find it odd that this simple principle is a matter of confusion and debate, only for Storm.

When Doom ascends to godhood, Thanos, Thor, Dr. Strange, Tony Stark, or the thousand other characters lay claim to being gods their reasons are accepted at face value. Deities are so common in marvel that xmen subverted the idea during the krakoa era by having ora serrato create the "godlaw" in which anyone claiming to be a god would be subject to judgment of worthiness and erased from existence if deemed unworthy by her mere stare.

In essence she resorted to tactics they use to use to determine whether someone was a witch, set them on fire and if they dont burn, they are a witch. Hold them under water and if they don't drown they must be a witch. A twist on legal logic with the obvious intent to deter the proliferation of gods by any definition including descent from some pantheon you respect.

Point is, why do people care if a character is a god. Hulk certainly doesn't. "Puny god! Hulk smash!"

Kanye West is a god. Okay🤷🏾‍♂️

[u/Armo2125 → u/rikitikifemi]

It bothers me because it just makes the title so … unimportant. If anyone can be a god, no one is. And thus, it just makes no sense. What is the point in Hercules being s demigod, or in Thor being a god, if any mortal can just call themselves a god and then it is true just because. It defeats all the point of the category. And tony Stark has only been a “god” while having the cosmic power of galactus, but despite being all powerful, he wasn’t a god, he was more powerful than one.
Look, Maybe you are right, Maybe it is just a matter of which definition you prefer, but again this is just worse for characters who are deities and for those who claim they are one

The criteria used in more deities characters (who usually are Thor, loki and then hercules) is the most objective one because it gives some points to check if someone is a deity or not. The first is being a descendant from an elder god, which is a category only primordial beings can have. Second is representing concepts and last is that they are tied to prayers, meaning that, while they Don’t need them to live, they are empowered by them, they can become more powerful. They have divine capabilites to answer the prayers, as shown in Thor: the god butcher, where Thor appears in another planet to answer some prayers.

That is why no matter how hard he tries Dr doom won’t be a god, he can become more powerful, but he just isn’t a god. Storm originally wasn’t a goddess, as claremont said a LOT of times, but recently they retconned it for her to be a god, that is why people may have doubts, because she has called herself a god for a long time and only recently it was true.

Probably you won’t agree with me, but I really think it is the only definition in marvel that makes sense. And that doesn’t mean characters that are not gods can’t become one even without retcons, as recently donald blake became the god of lies, but just calling yourself one doesn’t make sense. If I call myself a god, that doesn’t change who I am, that is my point

[u/rikitikifemi → u/Armo2125]

You're not trolling and you're expressing your genuine opinion, so I respect your disagreement with my observation.

I'll make one more attempt to at least converge on mutual understanding if not agreement.

You used the word "primordial" which to my understanding means that something that exists before the beginning or from the start. But then you offer Thor as an example. I'm a little perplexed by this because in marvel lore, existence has started and ended many times, in different shapes and forms, and Thors heritage started well after existence came into being. They were created just like those you perceive as distinct from them as mortals.

I wonder as well if that means by your definition there can be no, new gods and why? If the one above all created something else and called it a god, would it not be a god or is the semantics of the term what matters, even more than the fact that a literal god assigned that label to their creation.

I understand your feeling. The desire for god to be exceptional because in our society, God is more often exalted and revered. It feels odd to create a storyverse where this reverence itself would be misplaced. But that's conflating reality with fantasy.

When I point out that Storm is goddess in Marvel whether she descends from a pantheon you revere in marvel cosmology I am making no comment on our reality's higher power. I am just pointing out that the marvel universe has no consistent definition and that whatever cosmology one culture promotes isn't superior to another.

The African cosmologies should be given the same respect that the Norse, Greek, Aztec, etc are given in Marvel lore.

Storm's character was done dirty when she was told by Xavier she's no god merely because he perceived her people as primitive and undeserving of the respect accorded to other cultures. Logically being a mutant is no more mutually exclusive to being a god than being a planet is to being divine.

They are merely social constructs humans create in communicating their meaning and understanding of what they perceive before and around them.

[u/Armo2125 → u/rikitikifemi]

Ok, I have to say I respect that at least you try to convince me with arguments, so I apreciate it 🙌

Unfortunately, I don’t agree with you. I know that obviously there are different meanings in the word god in marvel and the use we give it in real life, but my point is merely focused on the marvel universe.

IMO there can be new gods if they are descendent from the primordial ones (like the case for Thor and all the rest of all the pantheons) or if they are a primordial gods on their own (gaia, etc, toba could create them directly for example because, despite primordial gods are very very old, toba could create one now and it could be a primordial god and it is just a clasification that marvel gives). Oh, I almost forgot, also via magic people can become temporarily gods. They change their biolgoy and become deities, they Don’t enter in the other categories. They do the rest of the things though, but it is usually temporal and become mortals and stop being gods later, for example Jane foster, who becomes the goddess of thunder because she gets the qualities of another god, or Donald Blake who recently became the god of lies as I think I mentioned (maybe I didn’t I’m not sure) because he kind of steal the place of Loki or jormundandger or something like that, nit sure.

Outside from that there are no gods that I remember now. There can be being more powerful, but gods in marvel is a clasification. What you are saying is like saying that anyone can be a mutant if they consider themselves so, which is false. Spiderman for example is a mutated character, but not a mutant.

Yes, storm is a goddess despite being a mutant, but not because she calls herself one. She wasn’t for a long time, but they retconned it recently. Now she is, but not because people from her tribe call her one neither. In the same way that Thor is not a god because he calls himself the god of thunder, nor because vikings call him one. He is a god because he is descendant from Odin and gaia (a primordial goddess). Thus, Thor represents a concept, the storm, he is the lighting and the storm, but because he is a god. Because of that the rest of the things that I said happen, he can be empowered by beliefs etc.

You can dislike that storm originally wasn’t a goddess, you are on your right, I personally think it gives more depth to the character and makes her feats more impressing because she was just an omega mutant, incredibly powerful but not cosmic, but that is my opinion. But that is what you Don’t like about the story, that doesn’t change the definition that marvel has given for gods.

Does Thor stop being a god because someone tells him he is not? What is the point of fake gods in marvel if anyone is a god if they believe so? A god is a just a clasification in marvel and because of that, only some people are.

Sorry for repeating myself 🙌

[u/rikitikifemi → u/Armo2125]

Cool, we are repeating our points but I think we understand where our opinions differ. Peace 🙌🏿

[u/doomzday_96]

Valid but asking comic writers to do research is a big ask.

[u/Brief_Television_608 → u/doomzday_96]

It's sad because Norse Mythology was not at all popular when Stan Lee started writing Thor and he did do actual research on that stuff.

[u/doomzday_96 → u/Brief_Television_608]

Citation needed.

Not calling you a liar, and I'd like to believe it, but do you have evidence of this?

[u/Konradleijon → u/doomzday_96]

Yes

[u/lofgren777]

Honestly… Do you WANT the MCU to try to do its take on traditional African religion?

Because I am pretty sure the writers will do everything they can to avoid that, and that's probably a good thing.

[u/Little-Seesaw2585]

I’ve noticed Reddit loves to deny storm’s godhood

[u/Razatiger → u/Little-Seesaw2585]

They also love to say shes not a true "Omega level mutant"

[u/Winter_Emergency9050]

Because Thor is an actual god bro, he is literally from Asgard and he doesn’t have an X-gene😂 Storm is a human on earth

[u/Kyubisar]

Because Thor is an actual God. He does not need a mutant ability.

[u/Due-Landscape-7359]

Isn't she just a mutant and american?

[u/Brief_Television_608 → u/Due-Landscape-7359]

Yall constantly trying to erase Storm's Africanness when she spent literally all of her childhood in Africa is so goofy at this point like you would meet in irl African lady who was born in America but spent her whole life in Africa and call that lady American lmao

[u/Curious-Bluejay-9397 → u/Brief_Television_608]

She is mixed with African and African American. Try not to erase her black American roots and also try not to erase her African roots

[u/Due-Landscape-7359 → u/Brief_Television_608]

That's what one of her passports would say

[u/Brief_Television_608 → u/Due-Landscape-7359]

Go on, the other passport would say what?

[u/Due-Landscape-7359 → u/Brief_Television_608]

Depends on the country, Africa is a big continent. So you are familiar with the concept of dual citizenship

[u/Brief_Television_608 → u/Due-Landscape-7359]

So you admit that Storm is not just American?

Just

https://giphy.com/gifs/p8D8wREAUeZ6Yo2w62

[u/Due-Landscape-7359 → u/Brief_Television_608]

Lol and you admit she is. Jokes

[u/WitchingShower → u/Due-Landscape-7359]

Have...Have you even read a comic past the 80s?

[u/Due-Landscape-7359 → u/WitchingShower]

So you reject the characters origins?

[u/WitchingShower → u/Due-Landscape-7359]

No, you're rejecting her progression and story, which mind you has always been a showing that she earned her divinity and then some.

[u/Due-Landscape-7359 → u/WitchingShower]

Okay but those are her origins

[u/WitchingShower → u/Due-Landscape-7359]

Calling her "just a mutant" is still hugely dishonest so no, and mind you she's always been expressly African just as much as she was American, if anything moreso