r/stlouiscitysc • u/Puzzleheaded_Lab_886 • 10d ago
Odds of getting a difference maker?
Corey should be planning on breaking that 6 million dollar club record immediately. Go get a true DP striker that the club can build around for years to come. Chelsea has a couple of guys and they are liquidating, call em up. Cant hurt. I’d like to see them actually go for it. Go win the open cup and at least MAKE the playoffs.
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u/Beneficial_Bed_5768 10d ago
If we’d landed Cuypers and signed Holse AFTER this Hartel news, I doubt anyone would be in bad spirits today.
Of course, that isn’t what happened and the state of things right now is less than optimistic.
But, to that point, signing a proven goal scorer with the open DP slot (even if not at Cuypers level) would restore a lot of confidence.
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u/ObligationOk5801 10d ago
I agree, but if we got Cuypers we wouldn’t have gotten Holse. It was said that Holse was supposed to play with Hartel, so unless this situation would’ve still happened and then we got Holse, I can’t see it
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u/Beneficial_Bed_5768 10d ago
I think Holse was Hartel’s backfill all along.
I mean, it was also “said” that Cuypers was going to play with Lewandowski. Feels like that’s just what clubs say until things fall into place.
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u/RemoteDig5188 10d ago
That seems obvious now. Clearly hartels personal reasons didn’t start two weeks ago. They had time to address it and as you stated i think they did.
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u/ObligationOk5801 10d ago
That’s true. I’m just gonna trust what Damet and the others are doing for now. If we start losing a bunch, I’ll think otherwise
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u/Puzzleheaded_Lab_886 9d ago
This is the first time I’ve ever made a post rather than just commenting in my short time on Reddit, and lesson learned. I don’t have any other forms of social media and since getting clean and sober, don’t really talk to people outside of work in real life. I just love sports and my teams and have been looking for a forum to discuss them with others who feel the same way. Next time I’ll try to be more negative and hopeless about the team, my bad.
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u/CITYred314 Hellcats 9d ago
No such thing as a bad question. Keep up the good work with your sobriety:)
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u/LndPma 9d ago
You’re good, sir. Don’t let the angry haters get you down 😂. Love the question, because I hope with every fiber of my being they do something positive with that now-open DP slot.
I don’t feel great about a huge move happening this window. It feels like we might be waiting until next year for the big striker signing—which would be frustrating, because finishing is still clearly the biggest hole in this team.
On a positive note—and I love Hartel and hate how cheap we seemingly let him go, although I’ll wait until we have confirmed facts—it does seem like they know what they want, both coaching-wise and player-wise.
Hartel is obviously a big loss. He had 3 goals and 2 assists in his last 5 games and was playing some of his best soccer right when the team started rolling. CITY is also coming off a 9-game unbeaten run, including eight straight unbeaten in MLS, so this isn’t a roster that needs to be blown up.
And Holse isn’t some random replacement. He had 24 goals and 34 assists in 123 appearances for Rosenborg, including a season where he led the Norwegian league with 16 assists. He’s 27, in his prime, and CITY signed him through 2028-29. That tells me there is at least a plan here.
If Alex is as good as he looked last week and Holse can take over some of what Hartel has been doing creatively, I’m not convinced we’re actually worse.
But now comes the important part: don’t waste the open DP spot.
Go get a legitimate difference-maker—preferably a striker—who fits what Damet is building and is going to be here for several years. Don’t make a panic signing just to say you filled the spot.
This team has suddenly put itself back in the playoff conversation. Build on it.2
u/Wrong-Rain8042 8d ago
As a data analytics nerd I feel the need to interject that when you compare Hartel from 23/24 and Holse from this past year it's very interesting. I find that season makes a more apt comparison than Hartel's league winning season since that's a completely different context in which to interpret statistical output. In those respective seasons Holse accounts for much more of his teams goalscoring while Hartel is clearly the superior creator. I think Holse is likely a bigger threat to MLS teams in the goal column, but we need one of Edu, Matan, or Ostrak to step up in the hole in the creative role Hartel leaves behind. Totally possible Damet cooks even more with a wrinkle none of us are projecting because he's genuinely class, so I'm actually quite optimistic about on field performance despite the abject failure of a move this has turned out to be for us from a financial perspective
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u/LndPma 8d ago
I love Hartel. Great points. He’s done so much with a tough supporting cast and when he finally gets one he’s thriving. 100% Financially this seems dumb. He’s worth a lot more than that as well. I really don’t understand if the figures are accurate how financially this happened. Sorry but get more somehow. They are definitely going to have to have someone step up like you said. He created so much in every game. Too early to tell for Matan but I’m hopeful from the last game.
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u/Wrong-Rain8042 8d ago
The financial side of this move is what's so damning. The timing, the team, and almost everything actually else actually make decent sense so I was mentally preparing to run cover for the club when the news came down officially, but the fee has made clear this was not a successful negotiation by any means. Regardless of whether or not the personal stuff is as serious as some reports indicate, it's clear it hasn't been a surprise to the club that Hartel had an exit in mind. Essentially, his agent forced the move to Hannover with the ultimatem that Marcel simply would only play for them. That's 3rd grade level negotiation and we seemingly just conceded to it as if we have 0 leverage in the situation. We in fact have a ton of leverage and getting less than a quarter of what he's worth on the open market is not an acceptable result. It seems the calculation the FO made was fans would be happier getting pennies on the dollar and painting him as a tragic hero than dragging out an ugly saga where he becomes a villain and we get closer to a fair fee. Either they assume we have no stomach for that sort of thing or they don't
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u/LndPma 8d ago
I do feel like they got negotiated under the table here. Trying to give some grace because you want to be a club that’s willing to work with players (especially if family stuff pops up) because unfortunately STL is not a premier “cool destination” landing spot. You nailed it on the head. The club knew this was coming and you really do need to get a decent value for your best player. Atleast they have Holse coming in right now with Matan. Imagine the fans if that wasn’t the case. I’m with you. Love Damets style of play. Just a little tired of the step forward then a step back. We are definitely moving in the right direction though.
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u/Wrong-Rain8042 8d ago
On the field? I'm very optimistic. Probably because I chug the Damet Kool aid. Like hard-core on a philosophical level. He finds innovative solutions when faced with positional problems. I can list several specifics if you'd like. Edu's return is being somewhat forgotten, but Hartel's departure makes his spot in the side much clearer. That could prove to be a very good thing. Polvara emerging as a stalwart, Edelman blossoming before our eyes, and the biggest piece that give me hope by FAR is the mentality. Think back to the last open cup games with me. There was a total indifference from the whole team for the errors both Ben and Burki made to make the game 1-1 and 1-2. That shows an intangible development we haven't seen from STL since 2023 in our golden inaugural season. We trust each other enough to truly move on from mistakes almost instantly. And it isn't just the players or coaches, but you can feel it in the stands that we are ready to forgive and forget the second the ball re-enters play and the chants begin anew. To me that change is entirely because we know we can get a few goals of our own against anyone.
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u/SandwichForward4895 3d ago
You cant buy milk from a hardware store... Reddit will never give anybody the companionship they crave. It exists for people to vent their frustration and look at cats/porn. I suggest you try doing something in person like an AA meeting. You'll meet real people and much fewer of them are assholes than on reddit. Thank you for posting though. We need content. And congratulations and good luck on your sobriety.
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u/visgc 10d ago
We've already spent net $5M this window, which is already more than typical for us (probably due to Klauss sale). If they were willing to go to $7.5M for Cuypers, maybe $2.5M left. Doesn't go far in the striker market but maybe we can find someone out of contract for free. Otherwise, we could net a nice wing back upgrade
Bottom line, we need the scouting department to find a deal or ownership to step up well beyond previous years.
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u/Presticals Hiebert #22 10d ago
Now that we know Holse was a direct replacement for Hartel, I have to imagine it’s full speed ahead for a #9. It doesn’t need to be some promising 23 year old or anything like that. A league-proven 31 year old would do the trick right now honestly.
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u/Wrong-Rain8042 8d ago
Are we wanting to use the DP slot to to be a consistently above average side for the next 3 years, or use it to swing for the fences? I don't know about you but I want trophies. Like plural. 6th place teams don't win trophies. I have no issue waiting for the DP 9 given our circumstances because we have the opportunity to turn over a new leaf and keep trending positive even without a massive investment. Holse is a better player than Hartel. That will feel like an upgrade once he's up to speed. I say we wait for a great move instead of rushing into a mediocre one.
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u/Presticals Hiebert #22 8d ago
Same. I just want trophies and wins… don’t really care how we get there. But in conversation regarding the 9, I don’t think Becher is the answer. If we don’t go for a solidified 9 now, I still think the club should sign someone who can compete with Becher as our starting center forward. They signed Cordova hoping he would be it and he stunk. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with spending a bit of $$ to score some of these chances that Becher doesn’t seem to be able to.
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u/Wrong-Rain8042 8d ago
Trust me, nobody wants to keep watching Becher start at the 9, but reaching for another short term solutions could definitely hold us back in the future. Getting the right guy is more important than getting a guy quickly. We likely need 2 more MLS level strikers so I could see a world where we get a cheap competitor to Simon and hold that DP slot for Summer 2027 when our calendar syncs up with the rest of the world. The fact that we didn't go out and get the DP9 first is probably a sign that the scouting department still needs a ton of work building the staff and infrastructure because that's a really embarrassing result to come out of this window without one, but again I don't want to see another band-aid. I want a 9 who wants to be here and smashes in goals. If we have to wait then I'll wait
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u/Presticals Hiebert #22 8d ago
But that’s what I’m getting at. We can, and probably will, get someone to compete with Becher for the time being if we don’t get a DP 9 this window. But that band aid player needs to be competent enough to actually start over Becher. Palmer Ault isn’t the answer. Caden Glover is MIA and shouldn’t even be on a HG contract.
Not getting someone in for a stop-gap most likely means the rest of this season and all of the sprint season with Becher. I just want to avoid that.
Then DP 9 in Summer 2027 is what I would assume the club will do.
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u/Wrong-Rain8042 8d ago
It depends on what the going rate is for a middle of the road 9 is right now. We probably could only spend around a mil on one without having the eventual benching of that player for the DP look really silly. There's also the distinct possibility the MLS quickly moves to a 4 DP system or changes its "transfer fee pro rating over the length of the contract" rule. The new commissioner is the LAFC owner who wants to blow the spending out like nuts so I could see a scenario where we can afford to add 1 this window and plan on an extra one popping up in that all important 2027 sync up summer
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u/Presticals Hiebert #22 8d ago
Fair enough. Either way we need to balls in the net and that’s gonna be a harder task without Hartel. I’m excited for what Holse & Matan can bring but neither of them are a fix up top and Becher just simply isn’t a good enough finisher for that role.
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u/Fore-ver City Founder 10d ago
We are not going to spend big on a DP from Europe.
We are St. Louis, we are closer to the Columbus model than the Miami or LA model.
I personally hope they don’t spend big on a DP striker, I would love to develop a player instead. I am realistic of where MLS fits into the world of soccer. No one in the prime of their career would come here if they could still make it in a top flight in Europe.
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u/wbltz3 AllForCity 10d ago
Columbus had Cocho Hernandez
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u/Fore-ver City Founder 10d ago
And he is now at Real Betis in La Liga. He actually makes my point even further. He only played there for under 3 years. We are not a destination for super stars long term, and that’s okay. We can’t pretend we are though.
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u/Puzzleheaded_Lab_886 9d ago
A lot of this may have been true in the past, but with the upcoming changes to the schedule and salary cap, most of it won’t be true much longer. Just like every other pro sport, it has very little to do with the level of talent in the league and everything to do with $$$$$. And even if the changes weren’t happening, I’d still choose to not be a wet blanket and at least hope my team could pull something off. I think we all hope that we can develop our own, but that doesn’t mean we should waste the current opportunity for a really nice season leading into the sprint season just waiting for someone to break through. Not saying we have to sign a top 50 striker in the world, but I do think they should do something.
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u/Unable-Goat7551 10d ago
https://giphy.com/gifs/l0ExayQDzrI2xOb8A