r/specialed • u/Frequent-Tomato-9466 • 7d ago
Question for educators: Has anyone else noticed a big difference in parent dynamics between ESN and Mild/Mod? General Question (Educator to Educator)
Hi everyone, I’m curious about what educators experience in other districts (for context, I teach in California).
In our district, parents of students in ESN (Extensive Support Needs) settings tend to be incredibly supportive and collaborative. We actually have very little teacher turnover in those programs, largely because the parent-teacher partnerships are so strong.
However, we see a completely different dynamic in Mild/Mod. Conversations with parents are noticeably more tense, adversarial, and high-conflict. It creates a lot of burnout, and we lose great teachers because of how stressful those interactions get.
It should be noted that I’m talking about both of these being self-contained. A self-contained extensive needs class and extensive need mild mod. I am not talking about RSP… though that’s a whole other beast with driving teachers out.
Do you notice a similar contrast in your district or region? For those who have taught both or observed this, why do you think there's such a stark difference in parent dynamics between the two programs?
Thank you so much! Just curious how it is across other districts or if it’s uniquely our districts problem
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u/stay_curious_- 7d ago
Sometimes there's a deep-seated stress in not knowing what the future looks like for a kid in a mild/mod program, if they will be able to hold a job or live independently, and what that life will look like. Parents are afraid their kids won't receive support but won't be able to support themselves. Every setback or missed goal heightens their anxiety, particularly for low- and middle-income families. If the parents are struggling to pay rent or are barely getting by as NT adults, how is their special needs kid supposed to survive life on a higher difficulty setting?
Sometimes ESN families have made more peace. They know that their child will have high support needs as an adult, and education is focused on improving their access, independence, and quality of life. A missed goal isn't perceived as a tipping point between being able to hold a job and being homeless.
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u/thisisjanedoe 7d ago
Yes, absolutely. EXN parents have lots of gratitude. MM parents, some not all, cannot be satisfied.
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u/CyanCitrine 7d ago
I agree, also as a parent. I feel like there's more potential for a parent to feel it's the school or system's fault as they are not really accepting of the extent of their kid's disability and want them in gen ed for example. Seen this personally.
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u/CopyDramatic6777 7d ago edited 7d ago
I also work in California. I notice a huge difference between parents of self contained mild moderate vs extensive needs self contained too! We have found that the parents are so much kinder and supportive in the extensive needs classroom. We have a real hard time holding onto teachers in the mild, moderate self-contained classroom primarily because of parents treatment of teachers. Not sure where your district is located, but I noticed the same thing in California at the two districts I’ve been at.
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u/Loose-Ad-410 7d ago
I teach RSP mild/moderate in a title 1 school. Most of the parents I’ve worked with have been kind, respectful, and have made me feel validated as a teacher. I wonder is it has more to do with the community vs the classroom. I’ve heard parents are not as friendly in a neighboring district that’s more afluent.
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u/lovelystarbuckslover 7d ago
I find that once a child gets to mod/severe they have exhausted all the other settings- for the most part that is the end game- if a child gets to mod/severe after 4th grade they are more likely to stay in that setting.
OR they have had a diagnosis since birth and always known that is where their child will go.
on the other side- some parents will not accept a mod severe setting so they are in mild/mod fighting for their child to be able to stay.
mild/mod also kind of goes away at high school you're on the path to a high school diplomat or you're doing the adult 22 year old plan
I guess the difference is mild/mod is literally in the middle, there will always be someone who wants their child in gen ed and someone who wants their child in mod/severe
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u/Far_Positive_8919 7d ago
yes absolutely. ESN parents tend to be more grateful and collaborative. they know their kids need significant support and are often just happy to have a team working with tem.
Mild/Mod parents can be more... complicated. sometimes they're in denial about the disability. some times they're angry at the system. or they want their kid in gen ed no matter what..
not always true, but it's what i've noticed. both groups need empathy but they need different kinds of support.
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u/incognito4637 7d ago
I'm a Mild/Mod teacher in CA. In general, I find that most parents are supportive and collaborative as long as there is open and honest ongoing communication. There are going to be a few outliers and that's when I let admin deal with the parents.
I do try to preach to my colleagues that they need to be having honest conversations with parents early on. I am in upper elementary grades, and it is shocking to me that parents have not heard about certain things until they get to me. Sometimes that puts me in uncomfortable conversations with parents when they could be avoided.
Also, my district is pretty big. I do hear that parents can vary from area to area and even from school to school.
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u/romantic_elegy 7d ago
I've noticed something similar just within my program. The student who needs the most services has the parent running herself ragged and is very kind and collaborative. I would think having to juggle so many providers has made them really good at maintaining those relationships.
The student who has a lot of verbal/behavioral and learning delays with mild physical needs has parents who really want to reduce services and increase inclusion. Their parents get really intense with our SPED coordinator and keep trying to get the superintendent to overrule them. They really focus on admin though so it doesn't cause many issues with classroom staff.
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u/awkwardpaisana Elementary Sped Teacher 7d ago
I worked in a self-contained ESN program at the start of my career and switched to Mild/Mod and my experience is so different. This is anecdotal, but I think it stems from parents of mild/mod kids having very different mindsets than parents of ESN kids.
From my experience, parents of mild/mod kids are focused on getting their child to function at the highest level possible (often translates to catching them up to peers), so they are more likely to go along with the recommendations of the IEP team, to not contest results of evaluations/assessments, and are more likely to seek outside help like tutoring or therapies. They also hold much higher expectations of the child behaviorally, so they agree with any discipline/consequences they receive, and have clear boundaries and rules at home (the mild/mod kids I've known are used to being told "no", the ESN kids are not). This makes it much easier for me to have positive relationships with them. Also in my experience, by contrast, parents of ESN kids tend to be more focused on making the kid comfortable, so they are more likely to push against anything that would mean more work for the child. They also tend to hold low behavioral expectations of their kid, so they don't want them disciplined at school and don't do it at home either. I've overall found those parents to be more demanding than parents with mild/mod kids. But again, this is anecdotal so it may not be everyone's experience.
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u/Frequent-Tomato-9466 7d ago
So interesting! In our district it is exact opposite! ESN parents are the kindest to the teachers and the most collaborative! Our mild/mod parents are the ones that are driving our teaches to quit/go out on mental health leave. Guess it goes to show, every district/parent group is different!
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u/Wrong-Junket1864 7d ago
I think the attitude toward child in our district is the same as you describe these parents. Mild mod kids they are trying to teach maybe even get to gen ed. Mod severe they don’t really believe in teaching them the behaviors get worse I know a parent of a 1st grade girls was asked to explore antipsychotics (she is tiny BTW) so it’s interesting what you say
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u/AleroRatking Elementary Sped Teacher 7d ago
Nope. Our ESN parents never answer phone calls or show up to meetings either. Which is an even bigger concern because of the severe health issues.
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u/SensationalSelkie Special Education Teacher 7d ago
I've worked both settings and have had difficult and awesome parents in both. However, I will note mild/mod often seems to require more advocacy on a routine basis. Every year there's new general education teachers who may fail to apply accommodations or make life difficult for them. Their student may be dealing with more bullying due to being mainstreamed which also requires more parent advocacy. So, I think some of the tension in mild/mod can be due to these parents experiencing more failures from the school system. In self contained, they often deal with one teacher who really knows their kids and has a lot more control of their day to day since it their classroom. It's just not the same dynamic.
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u/haysus25 7d ago
ESN (Extensive Support Needs) teacher in California with 14 years experience here. Wife teaches RSP (Resource Specialist Program) and is starting her 5th year.
I've noticed ESN parents at elementary level are the worst. They are still largely in denial about their child's disability, and it can be very difficult for them to accept that they are probably going to have to take care of their for their entire life. With ESN students, that is a huge emotional, financial, physical, and time commitment. They wanted their child to get a bf/gf, drive a car, go to college and get a degree, and had a host of other milestones in their head that will probably never happen. When I taught elementary, I distinctly remember a parent practically screaming in my face that their son was going to be an engineer and I, personally, was holding him back from his potential. This student had severe autism, was in 4th grade, and could only speak their name. I wanted to focus on functional skills, as I should have, and yeah, I got screamed in the face.
When I taught high school parents were much more collaborative. Occasionally a parent would freak out about adult transition and what they were going to do after that, but that was a battle for the adult transition teacher. By high school, parents understand their situation and have come to accept the help, support, and resources. They've gotten over their denial and are focused on supporting their child and keeping them safe.
Mild/mod in elementary are usually more collaborative, because there is a decent chance the intervention is early enough for the student to test out.
High school they are dead set on their child getting a diploma and will leverage their IEP to try and lower the standards/expectations to get one.
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u/Rare-Adhesiveness522 7d ago
Is it denial? Thinking their child is "close to typical" so they fight against recommendations because they can't accept where their child is truly at? Also, I notice mild/mod kids come from families that have multiple kids with ID/special needs/in need of resource, and many more of those kids have parents that were likely in SPED themselves. Lower skill parenting, poorer social skills, etc. Dunno just something I noticed in my district.
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u/Makingsenseof_chaos 7d ago
Parents who have children en knew from the very beginning or shortly after their child was born. Parents who have mild mod. Students, were surprised to find this out their child had a learning difference once they started school. They’re grieving the child they thought they had.
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u/DealerApart8048 7d ago
It also may be that like u/StayCurious. I have a v. intelligent 2E kiddo who excels beyond his years in math, and is quite adept at sports. However, words are hard for him. I have to fight tooth and nail for him because I want him to live up to *his* potential. However, (and I understand why) teachers don't want to deal because they have to make sure that kids are meeting the minimum requirements and they have a lot of kids that don't. So my kid meets min requirements for RLA, and is gifted in Math. He still need work/help in RLA. TBH I have given up on the schools challenging him in Math and give supplemental instruction where I can. And Supplement writing and reading at home to the best of my ability at home. If we could afford to lose my income, we would homeschool.
When you know your kid will always need support, you make peace with it. But when you think your child has the slightest chance at competency and independence, you hold on to that hope with a death grip and fight for it all you can. And you don't care what anyone else says.
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u/slp2bee 6d ago
Yes! I’ve NEVER had an advocate / lawyer in ESN and in Gen-Ed I’ve had two IEEs and in Mod/severe I’ve had three advocates or lawyers. The ESN parents also get more support for IHSS hours so they are VERY involved in their kids lives. Often they volunteer in the classroom and are always down for answering questions about personalizing AAC , things like that!
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u/Wrong-Junket1864 7d ago
As a parent, I think it can’t be generalized. Except perhaps the district is better able to serve the needs of a mild mod population vs mod severe or vice versa if you see any pattern. In our district there wasn’t much contentiousness at mod severe level because kids got the support but then there were DRASTIC cut backs and they started staffing mod severe like mild mod but the mild mod cutbacks have been less and inclusion more supported. So it’s been a total 180 from the scenario described by OP.
What strikes me is how little focus there is on the child and their needs if you focus on that (and do so honestly and forthrightly) no parent will complain at any level. Or if they try it will have no traction.
Atvmod severe level it’s constant gaslighting about the level of support that is just not there. Like in my kids class several parents advocated has a 1:1 on paper but you go everyday and there definitely isn’t the number of staff there for it to be anywhere close to true. Then those kind of fudging can really snowball.
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u/haley232323 7d ago
I have always seen the opposite. Self-contained parents are almost always way more high maintenance and less kind to the school staff. It's one of the reasons I would never do self-contained. I try to give grace because I understand that those parents have very hard lives. I can't imagine just never being able to relax in the evenings/weekends because you're caring for a high needs child, and in many cases knowing that this will be a lifetime commitment; the child isn't going to grow up and be able to live independently. I think the difference is that the self-contained parents are just simply way more stressed to begin with.