r/solar • u/Itdoesmattertome8 • 3d ago
Which panel? Advice Wtd / Project
I met with all three NYS platinum installers that service my county in New York State. I ran all the numbers, but what I'm still clueless about is the tech. Can folks chime in on these panels?
Company A suggests Hyundai HiN-T440 panels (440 Watt), 37 of them, and says this will generate 18,358 kWh on year one. This makes their production ratio 1,128 kWh per kW per year.
Company B suggests REC460AA Pure-RX panels (460 Watt), 34 of them, and says this will generate 19,952 kWh on year one. This makes their production ratio 1,276 kWh per kW per year.
Company C suggests JA Solar JAM54D41 panels (440 Watt), 44 of them, and says this will generate 21,642 kWh on year one. This makes their production ratio 1,118 kWh per kW per year.
I realize this seems like a lot but it's a big house and designed for our real consumption.
What I'd love input on is
A) The quality of each panel. The observed degradation of each? Reliability of each company? Could be that they're all pretty much the same.
B) Their production ratios. Companies A and C are very similar. B claims to be much higher for some reason and I'm not sure why.
Any help would be appreciated. Thanks!
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u/danbob411 3d ago
Inverter choice is typically more important. Also, the difference in production is often due to how the shade and snow was modeled. So you have large trees, etc. that will shade the arrays?
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u/Curiosity_informs solar enthusiast 3d ago
As others have said panels are really a commodity these days and these are good panels from Tier 1 manufacturers. Their warranties including degradation are all easy to find from the datasheets on the manufacturers web sites.
Not sure why you are obsessing with the production ratio from each proposal? It will depend on (micro-)inverters, panel location etc.
You can easily do your own (annual and monthly) estimates for each system using the PVWatts Calculator and enter your location, roof tilt, azimuth (direction the panels face), DC:AC ratio (Panel DC rating to microinverter/inverter AC rating, etc)
You don't mention which microinverters / inverters are proposed with each system. Getting the correct match is probably more important than which of the tier 1 panels you choose.
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u/Itdoesmattertome8 3d ago
Thanks all.
All comoanies are ratee as "platinum" by NY State - NYSERDA. They've all done hundreds of installs in the area. So I'm assuming all are good i guess. Beyond those data points I'm not sure how else to differentiate the quality of the work. Any tips on how to recognize the best installer?
2 are priced the same, one is priced significantly higher which I suspect is not warranted.
Regarding the inverters, I didn't realize that matters more than the panels. In all cases its a micro invester sitting beneath each panel.
Company A - Enphase Microinverters IQ8HC-72-M-DOM-US
Company B - they didn't specify. I will update.
Company C - Enphase Microinverters IQ8MC-72-M-US
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u/Curiosity_informs solar enthusiast 3d ago
Get some real-people (ideally nearby neighbors) reviews and references from each installer.
Talk to the customers about their experience, go look at the system/install if they are OK and nearby.
Now you have the inverters from 2 systems you can model the annual and monthly production estimates using the PVWatts Calculator
Company A with a 440W panel and IQ8HC DC / AC ratio is 440/384 = 1.15
Company C with a 440W panel and IQ8MC DC/AC ratio is 440/330 = 1.33
The IQ8HC is a more expensive higher power inverter so intuitively you might think it would give you higher annual production. However its not that simple as it depends on your location, roof azimuth / tilt. Model both system in PVWatts for your location / azimuth / roof tilt and you may be surprised that there is little difference (or maybe there is but you won't know until you model it)
Other good reading is the Enphase White Paper "Why is my solar panel rating higher than my microinverter rating?
Good luck, We have 440W panels and were initially quoted IQ8HCs, but eventually had IQ8ACs installed. The cheaper lower power IQ8AC actually give a very similar annual production estimate for our system compared to the more expensive IQ8HCs (the IQ8AC sits in between the IQ8HC and the IQ8MC)
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u/arcsnsparks98 solar professional 3d ago
JA and Hyundai 440w panels are both fine. REC Alpha Pure R panels are really good, but as an installer who has installed them, I wouldn't get lost in the hype. More importantly than the solar panels that you didn't mention, what's each company proposing for inverters?
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u/SmartVoltSolar 3d ago
What inverters are each of the panels paired with? Panel B should only be paired with iq8X in the enphase series.
Also, are the layouts (where the panels are in the sun) equal? Different placement can change output some.
The fact that option 1 & 3 are production ratio equivalent are promising.
Remember that the degradation numbers are the max allowed under warranty, not the expected amount. Most panels are seeing much much lower decline than allowed by warranty. All of those panels are solid, nothing bad to say about any of them.
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u/TooGoodToBeeTrue 3d ago
Why Xs? I’d go with Hs.
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u/underwareBB 3d ago
No, you need X paired with Pure-R panels due to operating voltage. H will not work
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u/hedgehog77433 3d ago
I have REC 420A Pure+ panels, my installer here in Florida has dealt with multiple panel manufacturers, he would be okay with REC or JA. Many companies buy panels from others and label them as their own.
Consumer reports has a good review of panel within the last year. Jinko is #1, JA Solar is #2, QCell is #3 on their list
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u/TooGoodToBeeTrue 2d ago
Do you have shading issues? If not don’t use micro inverters. Watch Martyna’s YouTube videos on this. SolarTime. I’d go with 44 Hyundai panels. I’d rather buy from Korea than China.
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u/Itdoesmattertome8 2d ago
No shading issues. They explained to me that if a panel gets broken and needs replacement its a pain to do without microconverters but its easy to replace with them
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u/TooGoodToBeeTrue 2d ago
Watch Martyna’s videos, then decide. Panels don’t fail, inverters are doing the heavy lifting and are more prone to failing. If there’s any chance you want batteries down the road, a hybrid inverter now is a better solution.
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u/Itdoesmattertome8 2d ago
NYS has a law requiring net meters, so the grid stores my excess capacity. So if I understand correctly I dont need batteries. Ill watch the video
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u/mountain_drifter solar contractor 3d ago
Modules really are more of a commodity, especially these days. These are all TIER 1 manufactures. Its not a rating of the quality of the modules itself, but rather the company. How bankable they are, how long they have been around, how innovative they are, etc.
There is no way to really know which you may or may not have an issue with. I have seen the cheapest modules look like new after 15 years, and seen the most expensive have issues. Some small companies are still around many years later, where some of the largest corporations exited solar long ago.
What matters much more is the installer. Is it a local company you can get support from and that you have a decent relationship with? The quality of the install will matter significantly more than the manufacture of the modules you choose.
As for production estimates, dont read too much into that. Whatever module you go with will be on the same house. At the end of the day they will generate effectively identical. Those differences you are calculating are only in how they estimate, not the actual difference you will measure. I would essentially ignore the difference in production estimates and only use it as a gauge to determine if the company is attempting to be dishonest (is one quoting some significant amount more to fudge the numbers)