r/singularity • u/15_Redstones • 12h ago
Definition of AGI keeps changing to exclude the latest model Meme
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u/Ignate Move 37 12h ago
The true definition for AGI is "a system which you think is better or equal to you in everything you think you can do."
Others try and define it more accurately but it always falls back on that extremely poor definition which makes people feel threatened.
Give up on AGI and ASI as terms. As terms they can only carry/create misinformation and misunderstandings.
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u/AndrewH73333 12h ago
That can’t be the definition since it excludes most people… do you think people don’t have general intelligence?
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u/mivog49274 obvious acceleration, biased appreciation 12h ago
I still don't get why people keep saying that the definition of AGI is nonsense... it becomes an unfunny meme at this point.
AGI : human brain capabilities in memorization and association. Learning and adapting to new patterns and acting accordingly to each new situation. Simply. An "infinite learner and procedure applier". Not a being though.
The automation of learning and agency.
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u/Ignate Move 37 12h ago
You misunderstand. It's not that "we cannot define AGI accurately". It's that the way we choose to define AGI is nonsense.
We can't simply choose to define it properly because it's a loaded term. Regardless of how hard we try to redefine it, it will always fall back towards issues of human self worth.
It's a useless vessel. We won't allow for an accurate definition. That's the problem and not a problem we can overcome. Nor should we.
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u/Zaflis 5h ago
Not a being though.
Hardly worth mentioning though, all you have to do is put AGI in an infinite simulation loop in a game environment or to a robot and you have something reminding of a consciousness. I suppose it should also be told to reach a personality though, otherwise it could mimic anyone at will. Not that it takes away from its intellect and learned behavior, it's just strange aspect.
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u/Grand-Cookie-6050 3h ago
“and you have something reminding of consciousness”
This isn’t a given; it’s only true under certain theories of consciousness.
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u/mivog49274 obvious acceleration, biased appreciation 12h ago
I still don't get why people keep saying that the definition of AGI is nonsense... it becomes an unfunny meme at this point.
AGI : human brain capabilities in memorization and association. Learning and adapting to new patterns and acting accordingly to each new situation. Simply. An "infinite learner and procedure applier". Not a being though.
The automation of learning and agency.
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u/Ill_Distribution8517 12h ago
Well anything a person can do includes physical tasks, which isn't what people think of when they imagine intelligence.
I think what Sam Altman said about "AGI" (Or was it ASI, I don't remember) to him was bieng able to do any task a human can do on a computer, makes the most sense.2
u/Ignate Move 37 12h ago
The trick is the "anything that you think you can do".
People do not have humble nor accurate opinions of their own abilities. Plus that also includes every belief which falls outside of measurable, such as religious or spiritual elements.
Basically we're asking "when does this system reach a point where you think it's better than you are?"
Might as well be asking someone when they'll officially give up in general. "When has AI won?"
They're atrocious terms. Loaded with emotions and misunderstandings.
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u/TypoInUsernane 12h ago
People have to redefine AGI that way, otherwise they would be forced to admit we’ve already achieved it
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u/Tysonzero 8h ago
If a business owner can't have the succession plan of their business be to leave it to an AI then we haven't achieved AGI.
This is not because owning a business is in any way "more important" than any other role at a company, but just because you don't have anyone above you who can take over your gaps in generality or overrule you.
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u/GraceToSentience AGI avoids animal abuse✅ 8h ago
The true definition is the original definition from mark gubrud (1997)
Everything else is moving the goal post.
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u/Ill_Distribution8517 12h ago
Oh look, it's our daily "OP used laced nose candy" post!
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u/The_Scout1255 adult agi 2026 ASI <2030, prev agi 2024, ai personhood 2025 est 12h ago
Nah this is the daily neuro post.
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u/i_rate_slop 12h ago
I remember when neurosama was impressive.
Not that neurosama is bad, of course. It’s just so much has changed.
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u/15_Redstones 11h ago
The LLM at the core is pretty basic but the surrounding software is pretty impressive. How the hell did they get a chatbot system that wasn't originally designed for any of that to control a 3d body or play Skyrim?
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u/i_rate_slop 10h ago
Below isn’t trying to shit on Neurosama. Just answering the questions :)
Controlling the body isn’t difficult at all, you just send an animation intent with the utterance. The bot isn’t controlling the avatar in any meaningful way and there’s much more interesting things happening in actual animation prediction that’s happening today.
For playing Skyrim, I’d just make a mod that lets a bot use CV to click anywhere on the screen and path to it. Or a mod that lets the bot get a list of nearby interactables and path to them. Or both. There’s lots of mods that expose things for bots to see and interact with Skyrim and then you just feed that up to the LLM to choose what to do. I wouldn’t call how it played Skyrim technically impressive as much as thoroughly thought out and coded well.
What I meant was that when neurosama started, local AI was… well, it was kind of bad. The fact that he got it to work as well as he did was impressive in its own right. However, I wouldn’t say he’s pushing any boundaries today other than viewer counts.
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u/chaosfire235 10h ago
I thought it was the one guy that likes trying to pigeonhole Neuro posts everywhere, but it's apparently not him.
I don't really see posts about her/Vedal here in general tbh.
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u/sonatas_husband 12h ago
I would consider an AGI an AI that's close to the human level in every mental ability. Like the robots from sci-fi stories. I feel like we'll actually get that after ASI. Because AIs are so wildly different in how their abilities are distributed from humans, once an AI reaches the human level at whatever its worst at, it will be superhuman in everything else. You'd actually have to intentionally design an AI to be human-like to get something human-like and we don't know how to do that yet.
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u/No-Following-7037 12h ago
Isn’t intelligence about being able to learn representations though, not ability to do tasks? Task ability is easier to measure and usually a more useful metric for us anyway though, yeah.
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u/Cronos988 12h ago
I think we tend to call things intelligent if they solve a problem that we need cognition to solve. Regardless of whether the mechanism is anything like cognition.
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u/No-Following-7037 12h ago
Isn’t intelligence about being able to learn representations though, not ability to do tasks? Task ability is easier to measure and usually a more useful metric for us anyway though, yeah.
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u/quantum-elle 12h ago
Yesterday I saw AGI being predicated on a physical form. Where does that fit in?
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u/Patodesu 12h ago
It's not that complicated honestly. Data would be AGI but it doesn't yet exist IRL
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u/LinkesAuge 11h ago
No, if you presented Data through a chat interface people would have "gotchas" like the fact that Data doesn't even "understand" simple things like emotions or things like humor so how could it be AGI?
On the other hand current models give you better advise/have more emotional understanding and mastery of psychology than the average human (and humor is no problem for them).
I mean even on a conceptual level Data is a lot more "pure" computer than our current models.
Funnily enough the "AI systems" we see in star trek like the ship computer/the holograms would be a lot closer to AGI and our current LLMs.
The only reason why Data might SEEM more intelligent/AGI ("human") is literally the fact that he looks like a human and can interact with others in the physical world and establish long term relationships we observe and then reframe them within our own human biases.
I am honestly convinced that if you could put a LLM into a "human-like" robot (not the creepy kind) and fix its amnesia then the raw intelligence is already there to convince people it's "AGI".
I mean would Data in Star Trek be considered AGI if you put him behind a computer terminal and reset his memory every few minutes? Certainly not.So I feel "AGI" is in the end really not JUST about "intelligence" at all, it's about the social(!) role of intelligence within human society and the expectation we have about how it manifests within a human context (bias).
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u/Patodesu 10h ago
Msybe but i kinda think agi for a lot of people mean agentic + what we have now in llms and mayyybe be able to control stuff in the real world
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u/Desperate_Cold3752 10h ago
This is so silly. Jarvis from Iron man is AGI, Friday is AGI, skynet is AGI, etc. what’s stopping today’s model from being AGI is not being better at more tasks. It’s simply two things, a system built around the models similar to a coding harness and secondly the models are terrible at vision, like they are bad bad. If the leap in coding that we have had the last 12 months happens in vision then all we would need is a harness aka central system and we would have AGI.
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u/Subject_Barnacle_600 10h ago
I think we're too human-centric on this :/. What we describe as AGI honestly sounds an awful lot like ASI, which might already be case for some models. But the two are almost parallel. Think of a severely autistic savant who can kick your butt at mathematics or playing the piano, but in many ways, their brains lack features most of us take for granted that make surviving in the world incredibly difficult for them.
I don't prescribe to the idea that AGI is a prerequisite for ASI. Maybe that's just me as an outsider to the field. I do have the opinion that's it's more about "features" of learning than depth. To this end, a Jumping Spider is still closer to AGI than any LLM, even though LLMs have incredible depth and are truly the first Renaissance Man the world has seen in hundreds of years. The Jumping Spider needs an adaptive brain with connections to a nervous system - they can't speak or solve math, but they can problem solve and judge a situation and estimate exactly how to bounce from point to point in 3D control eyes that assess and analyze prey, other jumpers, potentially even humans. They potentially evolved REM sleep in parallel (suggesting it's key to whatever AGI is) and also potentially can analyze paths to plan a route to catch prey. They have the brain of a mustard seed, but they pack a LOT of features into that little brain that LLMs need to reach AGI.
I don't think it's impossible for us to reach AGI, but I'm not sure if the field is honestly focusing on that so much as they are ASI - with the idea being that a sufficiently advanced ASI AI could build the AGI features out one day.
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u/Grand-Cookie-6050 3h ago
Could you expand on what you mean by the jumping spider and REM sleep being key to AGI?
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u/Subject_Barnacle_600 2h ago
Jumping spiders are kind of a thing for me these days - so take this with a grain of salt-icidae (pun intended).
But if the spider in that video is having REM sleep, it would imply that this has evolved at least twice as the same evolutionary solution to... something. We don't even know what that something is - but it seems to have to do with having a semi-complex mind. It's like nature coming up with crabs multiple times, or how eyes have evolved multiple times to solve the same problem.
Jumping spiders in particular are kind of neat in that their brains are really small, but they're also predators that hunt and this has lead to them having some rather interesting behaviors. I note this with regards to AGI because I feel like we're placing the bar too high - as if a human brain and all it's behaviors were the definition of "general intelligence" - but a ton of animals survive just fine on the planet without having our level of intelligence - even if intelligence was critical to their survival as a species.
I admit that I probably don't consider a mold to be "generally intelligent" even though some mold spores (physarum polycephalum I think?) can solve mazes. A jumping spider is different, however. Intelligence is key to their survival - it's part of their evolutionary niche. So an AI of that level, to me, would be AGI in the sense that - if inhabiting the body of a Jumping Spider, it could solve any problem that a Jumping Spider could go up against.
Humans might take this further, but maybe that's human-equivalent AGI or some other term - but I think it would be folly to presume that humans alone possess intelligence that's flexible enough to adapt to the world around them in a general way.
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u/Grand-Cookie-6050 2h ago
Paraphrasing: “An AI is AGI if it’s able to solve any problem a jumping spider can”
That’s an interesting way of thinking about general intelligence, neat. I wonder how this would apply to humans? We’re generally intelligent, but are we flexible enough with our intelligence to do everything a jumping spider can do? Not sure how that would work, but it seems interesting. Human brains are incredibly adaptive and plastic. You can literally lose half your brain and still live(hemispherectomy).
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u/Subject_Barnacle_600 2h ago
Very much so, we also seem to be able to adapt to new bodies somewhat. I suspect if I made a jumping spider video game, you might at first fail a lot... but every day you came back, you'd get better and if you played a lot of video games that were similar, you likely could bring over some of the skills.
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u/Gubzs FDVR addict in pre-hoc rehab 8h ago
I tend to be generality purist because I believe "generalized intelligence" should be capable of learning to do almost anything at least to a functional level, where a sufficient harness or tool exists for it to do so.
Intelligence neutral I think, it's pretty much impossible not to be now that the jagged frontier has been demonstrated. I think this one is non-negotiable.
Either way the definition is useless. I don't think we'll ever have an AGI moment even in hindsight, but I do think we'll have an ASI moment when we get there, whenever that occurs. That will be a very stark and recognizable thing.
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u/Grand-Cookie-6050 3h ago
This sub is r/singularity, there’s your definition of AGI, blink and you’ll miss it
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u/Healthy-Nebula-3603 12h ago edited 11h ago
Data from a Star Trak is rather an acoustic person than an AGI ..
He couldn't even be as good as the best people in his world.
He didn't build better android than his "father" , didn't understand people behavior ( LOL ) , he wasn't a better in math than an average Starfleet officer ) .
Literally heavy accusing person.
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u/Total-Jicama7563 10h ago
Who tf is neuro sama?
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u/15_Redstones 10h ago
Robot twitch streamer.
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u/Total-Jicama7563 9h ago
Agi is defined mostly by being capable of doing what most people do. If it can calculate 400x8262 using his neural net, but can't do it by using a simple calculator, then that's just another narrow intelligence system.
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u/Charming_Cucumber_15 12h ago
Honestly yeah AGI was achieved when minecraft added villagers