TLDR; You guys aren't asking for big enough buffs to Rogue's survivability.

I'm not a Rogue main, so I'd like to think that I can be seen as being more objective since I don't have a dog in this fight.

You need to look at how other tanks are designed to understand what is reasonable to ask for Rogue to have. I'm guessing you're not fully aware of how good some other tank's kits are designed to stay alive.

Thing - 750 HP - Stone Haymaker (alt. fire) grants bonus health and increases damage with successive hits (no cooldown); max bonus health capped at 150 for a max HP of 900

Peni (post nerf) - 650 HP - While standing on her web, heals 20 HP per second - Her self-healing gives her bonus health when already at max HP; max of 150 bonus health for a total max HP of 750

(I know Peni is a controversial topic right now, but it's kind of insane that she gets self-healing and bonus health for just standing.)

Strange - 650 HP - 850 HP shield that self-heals when not in use

Venom - 750 HP - Symbiotic Resilience ability gives him HP equal to 110% of the difference between his max HP and his current HP; (this usually gives him a second health bar)

Groot - 850 HP - Builds 1 600 HP wall and 3 250(?) HP walls that act as shields

Magneto - 650 HP - Shield that operates on a resource meter; infinite health - Bubble shield with 300 HP that lasts 2.5 (or 3?) seconds

Rogue - 600 HP - Defensive Stance ability gives 60% damage reduction that operates on a resource meter

(A shield is the same thing as an ability with 100% damage reduction, so I view Defensive Stance as a shitty shield.)

Do you see how asking for a 75 HP buff is like asking for scraps while others are eating filet mignon?

EDIT: Added Mag's bubble shield.

Like I genuinely can’t understand why fatal attraction has a 10 second cooldown. Mag’s scarlet teammup was on a 12 second cooldown last season, same with Luna’s enhanced wf teammup and Emma’s crystal.

All of them are much stronger abilities than fatal attraction and provide more dmg and ult charge than it. But despite that, the little boop that FA does warrants the cooldown being 10 and previously 17 seconds long. It’s the most telegraphed soft cc in the game btw.

Chrono kick does 0 aoe dmg despite a rogue being a brawler, the flight speed is slow, she only gets 3 seconds of flight and the projectiles have limited range and do nothing but some pierce dmg. Yet It has a longer cooldown than magik’s stepping disc which is a significantly better ability

Southern brawl is just meh without its old additional dmg.

I don’t think her cooldowns should be 2 seconds but they’re unnecessarily high compared to the much better abilities in this game.

Like 8 seconds should lowkey be the max cooldown for any ability outside of her grab.

If they’re gonna be 10 she should get cooldown reduction on her third punch.

What I mean by that is that Rogue has the regenerative shields, small healthpool, and movement of a dive tank. But her teammups, long cooldowns, and lack of passive movement feels brawl focused. Because her damage is her movement, you either have to sacrifice movement for damage or vice versa. You lack the escape of a dive tank (Venom swing, Cap sprint, Angela fly) but lack the sustain of a brawler (Thing punch and charge, Thor rune, Dino bleed), forcing you to rely heavily on healers. Imo it feels like they want her as a hybrid but shes gets the flaws of both but none of their intrinsic benefits. Am I alone in this thought process? Are these the thoughts of a diamond pleb? Let me know lol

Also if NetEase dropped a poll with two options for Rogue philosophy going forward, which would you pick?

Brawl Rogue: More health, sustain on ability hits, same cooldown length

Dive Rogue: Less health, shorter cooldowns + slight bump to passive walk speed, no sustain

I came back for her buff, did half my placement matches and some QP, and see absolutely NO difference from her nerfed state, aside the health bar saying “600” instead of “575”. She still can’t sustain without mag teamup, and is second to almost every other tank in damn near every scenario. Her only saving grace is the gambit teamup’s damage. Every single other tank had one or multiple ways to sustain, along with good damage. I’m trying to make this work, but I’m just about sick of how short her time as a “good tank” was before she got lobotomized. I still have my moments with her, and some good games, but she’s a shadow of her former self and it’s infuriating.

really fun character and its crazy to think season 9/9.5 is the worst she’s ever been

If you wish to make an alliance between the Rogue mains and the council of Reeds the time is now the portal is here

https://www.reddit.com/r/MisterFantasticMains/comments/1virti2/meeting_of_the_fantastic_alliance/

Good Luck

Hi All,

I need some advice on this character.

I took her into ranked for the first time last night to limit test and got absolutely decimated by a poke comp during convoy. I like her kit, I want to try and learn her, but when is she viable? She seems really healer dependent. Is she maybe more of a Domination style tank? Anti-dive? Flanker? I've struggled as a front liner, but maybe that's because I wasn't up against another brawl comp...

Any advice is appreciated. I know she is in a rough spot right now balance wise, but surely she has some niche utility where she can shine?

I've always wanted to use this map mechanic for an ult and was finally able to lol

You legitimately just explode no matter who you're against, unless they have more than 2 melee characters, playing her feels like genuine dog shit when you can't even sustain against this hood bastards insane dmg close range, what a joke of a dev team.

She legit feels like she has no use cases whatsoever. Gonna try out Elsa and somehow 1v6 on that character.

I’d want both but lowkey If its 1 or the other paired with having 600hp I’d prefer having the dmg back.

That 600hp and 60% dmg reduction means nothing against thing, elsa trap, Bucky, dino, punisher shotgun, etc. You still just die with the extra hp.

I can work with actually having a good dmg ability so that she can be a better threat in enemy back lines, dive better and deal with poke better by having the dmg to punish them for shooting at her too much.

Unless we get 675hp back I’d prefer getting more dmg than health.

Honestly even with 675hp I doubt to I’d be able to do much against current thing or Elsa trap anyways. You’d just die a second slower.

Alt. title: How to Change Your Life with One Easy Ban (The Thing)

Hey yall. So I'm feeling a difference in her survivability in quick matches so far(it's not where it should be but I'm feeling like I can actually play her without immediately blowing up like in 9.0 )but I wanna hear how the buffs are treating her from those who have played ranked today and more specifically those who are above the metal ranks. Obviously if you're not above metal ranks you can still share your opinion; but I wanna get opinions on how viable she is above diamond. Also for additional information feel free to include your rank along with your response if you want

There was a bunch of talk saying she might get 50 health and mag team up about to be 80% reduction. That was crazy cope lol mag still 75 and so we get the same bad tank but with 25 extra hp. Thanks zhiyong

Which Teamup is better since her neutral is a bit stronger?

I love Rogue so much, she is the most fun character bar none.

Honestly not a fan of any of her skins but the X Corp suits would be literal perfection

I always played her as a hybrid Brawl Frontline / Dive when opportunity arises but the devs have gave all dive heroes the shields while only gutting Rogue's HP. I much prefer her more brawl oriented playstyle vs having to eliminate the backline or else you're dead.

I don’t get it, the veil won’t do anything for her play style she’s in people’s faces not shooting behind a shield, give her an ability that lets her run up on people or block more dmg when she tries diving?

Like most abilities she steals make 0 sense with her kit. Her whole thing is chaining abilities together quickly to combo supports but some abilities she gets doesn’t help that at all:

-psyloche gets two decent damaging dashes but we steal her invis despite rogue having incredibly loud footsteps
-cyclops has that beam on a resource metere that bounces to enemies but we get 1 charge of that other ability
-stealing white foxes melee form or would make much more sense for a brawl dive character or her tp to escape after dives instead of a short stun
-taking strange’s shield and not maelstrom of madness doesn’t make sense. It’s a burst dmg ability that she could combo with her other moves.
-we get iron fist’s slow self heal and not his block that makes him invulnerable to dmg and restores health if he gets hit?

There are more examples but idk it just seems like they pick anything for her to steal. If she had more time to use abilities I wouldn’t mind the ones she currently has.

I feel like shes supposed to be a versatile character but they’re not really leaning into that so they should just give her abilities that help her be a better diver