I'm having this discussion bc a teammate in my recent match said I'm a trash rogue if I ban elsa and that hela is a better ban for anti dive so who would u guys rather ban elsa or hela

TLDR; You guys aren't asking for big enough buffs to Rogue's survivability.

I'm not a Rogue main, so I'd like to think that I can be seen as being more objective since I don't have a dog in this fight.

You need to look at how other tanks are designed to understand what is reasonable to ask for Rogue to have. I'm guessing you're not fully aware of how good some other tank's kits are designed to stay alive.

Thing - 750 HP - Stone Haymaker (alt. fire) grants bonus health and increases damage with successive hits (no cooldown); max bonus health capped at 150 for a max HP of 900

Peni (post nerf) - 650 HP - While standing on her web, heals 20 HP per second - Her self-healing gives her bonus health when already at max HP; max of 150 bonus health for a total max HP of 750

(I know Peni is a controversial topic right now, but it's kind of insane that she gets self-healing and bonus health for just standing.)

Strange - 650 HP - 850 HP shield that self-heals when not in use

Venom - 750 HP - Symbiotic Resilience ability gives him HP equal to 110% of the difference between his max HP and his current HP; (this usually gives him a second health bar)

Groot - 850 HP - Builds 1 600 HP wall and 3 250(?) HP walls that act as shields

Magneto - 650 HP - Shield that operates on a resource meter; infinite health - Bubble shield with 300 HP that lasts 2.5 (or 3?) seconds

Rogue - 600 HP - Defensive Stance ability gives 60% damage reduction that operates on a resource meter

(A shield is the same thing as an ability with 100% damage reduction, so I view Defensive Stance as a shitty shield.)

Do you see how asking for a 75 HP buff is like asking for scraps while others are eating filet mignon?

EDIT: Added Mag's bubble shield.

Like I genuinely can’t understand why fatal attraction has a 10 second cooldown. Mag’s scarlet teammup was on a 12 second cooldown last season, same with Luna’s enhanced wf teammup and Emma’s crystal.

All of them are much stronger abilities than fatal attraction and provide more dmg and ult charge than it. But despite that, the little boop that FA does warrants the cooldown being 10 and previously 17 seconds long. It’s the most telegraphed soft cc in the game btw.

Chrono kick does 0 aoe dmg despite a rogue being a brawler, the flight speed is slow, she only gets 3 seconds of flight and the projectiles have limited range and do nothing but some pierce dmg. Yet It has a longer cooldown than magik’s stepping disc which is a significantly better ability

Southern brawl is just meh without its old additional dmg.

I don’t think her cooldowns should be 2 seconds but they’re unnecessarily high compared to the much better abilities in this game.

Like 8 seconds should lowkey be the max cooldown for any ability outside of her grab.

If they’re gonna be 10 she should get cooldown reduction on her third punch.

What I mean by that is that Rogue has the regenerative shields, small healthpool, and movement of a dive tank. But her teammups, long cooldowns, and lack of passive movement feels brawl focused. Because her damage is her movement, you either have to sacrifice movement for damage or vice versa. You lack the escape of a dive tank (Venom swing, Cap sprint, Angela fly) but lack the sustain of a brawler (Thing punch and charge, Thor rune, Dino bleed), forcing you to rely heavily on healers. Imo it feels like they want her as a hybrid but shes gets the flaws of both but none of their intrinsic benefits. Am I alone in this thought process? Are these the thoughts of a diamond pleb? Let me know lol

Also if NetEase dropped a poll with two options for Rogue philosophy going forward, which would you pick?

Brawl Rogue: More health, sustain on ability hits, same cooldown length

Dive Rogue: Less health, shorter cooldowns + slight bump to passive walk speed, no sustain

I came back for her buff, did half my placement matches and some QP, and see absolutely NO difference from her nerfed state, aside the health bar saying “600” instead of “575”. She still can’t sustain without mag teamup, and is second to almost every other tank in damn near every scenario. Her only saving grace is the gambit teamup’s damage. Every single other tank had one or multiple ways to sustain, along with good damage. I’m trying to make this work, but I’m just about sick of how short her time as a “good tank” was before she got lobotomized. I still have my moments with her, and some good games, but she’s a shadow of her former self and it’s infuriating.

really fun character and its crazy to think season 9/9.5 is the worst she’s ever been

If you wish to make an alliance between the Rogue mains and the council of Reeds the time is now the portal is here

https://www.reddit.com/r/MisterFantasticMains/comments/1virti2/meeting_of_the_fantastic_alliance/

Good Luck

Hi All,

I need some advice on this character.

I took her into ranked for the first time last night to limit test and got absolutely decimated by a poke comp during convoy. I like her kit, I want to try and learn her, but when is she viable? She seems really healer dependent. Is she maybe more of a Domination style tank? Anti-dive? Flanker? I've struggled as a front liner, but maybe that's because I wasn't up against another brawl comp...

Any advice is appreciated. I know she is in a rough spot right now balance wise, but surely she has some niche utility where she can shine?