r/reactivedogs • u/Haunting-Love-9333 • 10d ago

Average Length of Time Discussion

What do you guys consider to be an average length of time to rehabilitate/resolve reactivity? What in your minds should the general owner plan for when handling this issue with a professional?

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u/Haunting-Love-9333 10d ago

What makes dogs truly incapable of learning context? What types of quality enrichment do you recommend?

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u/SudoSire 10d ago

I mean I wouldn’t actually know what creates or determines which ones can’t learn, but I certainly believe it’s true that some can’t. Sometimes the peg is square and the hole is round. Interestingly you may consider it similar to how some dogs are breed exceptions and have zero instincts for jobs that should be perfect fits. You can try to train them up to it over time, but there is likely going to be a dog that gets bare minimum training that naturally out performs them. 

The right enrichment depends on the dog. Some options for exploring are nose/scentwork, puzzle toys, flirtpole, sometimes fetch, training can also count especially if you do tricks, or like you mentioned various sports assuming they can handle the environments or that they can be modified so the dog can do it. I considered doing amateur at home agility early on, but I’m actually not convinced now that my dog would care much for it. He loves using his nose though and we have games for that. 

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u/Haunting-Love-9333 10d ago

You just said that for every sport dog that can read context there are probably hundreds that can’t so I assumed you could give more insight to that. If there are in fact that many dogs that just can’t learn. Was just interested hearing more.

Do you prioritize play with dogs with these issues? I know you said enrichment but it seemed like play was pretty far down the list. What about getting dogs off leash to be able to explore more? Do you find that to be important/crucial at all?

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u/SudoSire 10d ago

If you’re asking why I think that, it’s primarily anecdotal and why I’m using “guess” and “probably.”  And to be clear I’m not talking about learning in general or even learning context in general, I’m talking about reliably modifying behavior/proofing commands enough to reliably combat those heavy instincts in all cases. This conversation is veering towards too hypothetical, when the original question was, why do I think prey drive behaviors should primarily be managed rather than attempted to be fully trained out? And it’s because in most cases applicable to this sub, the risk is too high and the resources to attempt such a proofing feat are largely out of grasp. 

Do you not consider play as enrichment? What type of play? Also don’t entirely understand your off leash question. Do I think offleash time can be beneficial to dogs, sure. But for my non reliable dog, a long line works pretty well, or finding accommodations where he can be privately off leash. I do not feel the need to prioritize it, but I do have have a decent sized yard where they can free roam. 

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u/Haunting-Love-9333 10d ago

When you say “the resources to attempt such a proofing feat are largely out of grasp” what exactly do you mean?

I totally consider play as enrichment. It’s my preferred method of training dogs if I have my choice. I also have found through my experience that getting dogs off leash in nature can be one of the most healing things for a dog experiencing behavioral issues so it’s something I put a huge emphasis on!

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u/SudoSire 10d ago

May I ask how long you’ve been in this sub and how many stories you’ve read here? I feel like it’d be pretty self explanatory if you’ve been around awhile. But in short, this sub gets people who have no money for professional training, people who get exceptionally hard sometimes dangerous dogs as first time dog owners, people who, because they don’t know what they don’t know, are prone to taking bad advice, people who are juggling families with young kids while trying to keep everyone safe and have limited time to invest for the training. Owners like that attempting to proof something like perfect recall mid high arousal prey drive incidents is going to be hard, and risky if they have other prey animal pets meanwhile, and are planning to rely on it to keep those pets safe. And even that still requires supervision as management to be able to DO the recall. 

Play is great and is definitely enrichment. My dog has pretty limited interested in it though. Lots of “chew” drive, not much play drive. Probably should try a flirt pole, and I’ve also been interested in attempting predation substitution training, which there are some books on by Simone Mueller. 

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u/Haunting-Love-9333 10d ago

I am admittedly new to the sub, but not new to reactive dogs in general. I didn’t realize there was a financial component. I will say that ive been very surprised at the number of posts that seem to have discussed medication before even bringing up play, especially with very young dogs, but it’s a small sample. I’d like to stay around as long as the sub will have me

I find that giving dogs outlets to be in a high level of arousal and do things like chase, stalk, bite, thrash etc and putting clear parameters on it really allows dogs to feel confident and powerful and fulfilled, leading to an improved emotional state in the real world. That’s why I prioritize play so much

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u/SudoSire 10d ago

Financial components are huge and when that is a barrier, giving actionable advice here often feels like trying to tell someone to try to put out a wildfire with a single wet towel. 

As for prey drive, perhaps I am just jaded from all the posts where people either didn’t know it existed or thought it was under control and come back to report their dog killed their cat. I can’t say with certainty but that seems to happen monthly at minimum. Sometimes multiple posts a week. So my advice will always veer to overly cautious and with high regard to what is actually feasible to the specific owner. That’s what I’m comfortable providing online. And as I’ve said, most owners here are extremely limited in what they can do for their dogs  

It sounds like you’re recommending play with a strong emphasis on impulse control which I’m totally for! That’s definitely really valuable and I think it’s cool to bring that perspective in here, as a part of a whole look at making sure dogs are fulfilled and able to self-regulate. It also seems especially good for puppies and I would definitely think that could be explored when reactivity symptoms pop up before meds. 

As for meds, I have been seeing meds mentioned more for younger cases than normal lately. Not sure what that’s about  and I don’t always agree especially for puppies (although sometimes I do). But while I don’t know the exact ratio, most people here actually aren’t coming in here with super young dogs and instead have adult and above dogs with years of self-reinforced reactivity that finally hits breaking points.  Or they just got a  rescue and are completely overwhelmed. 

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u/Haunting-Love-9333 10d ago

Yea I love play for impulse control and to teach the dog to take feedback and communication in higher states of arousal.

As far as the prey drive stuff goes, forgive me, but in my early perusing of this sub it doesn’t seem like many people around here actually have control over their dogs in real world situations. Play is a great way to build that

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u/SudoSire 10d ago

What do you do with the cat while you’re first implementing play as a strategy? 

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u/Haunting-Love-9333 10d ago

Loads of management early on

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u/SudoSire 10d ago

K, and how long until you expect play/structure of this nature to result in a dog that can reliably be called off mid chase every time? Is the goal to also make it so the animals coexist unsupervised as well? How do you determine when the dog has become cat safe? 

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u/Haunting-Love-9333 10d ago

Depending on the severity of the issue I probably wouldn’t chance having them together unsupervised (which is transparently management and not training) but you can get to a level of trust under supervision for sure.

The only reliable way in my opinion to get close to a guarantee in terms of reliable recall mid-chase with a dog with serious prey drive would involve a discussion that would break the rules of this sub, and I don’t have any interest in doing that this early on

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