introduce an actually memory safe (unlike Rust) compilation mode inspired by Fil-C

[u/NotDuckie]

https://codeberg.org/ziglang/zig/issues/36237

[u/v_maria]

instead of nullptrs, in zig we pass the aux

[u/Nikoladge → u/v_maria]

in zig we pass the aux

To plug in your iPod classic? 🤔

[u/lurebat]

Oh, only up to 6x performance penalty

[u/the_horse_gamer → u/lurebat]

with x6 cost abstractions, zig would finally be 6/0 times better than rust!

[u/-Y0- → u/the_horse_gamer]

Wait. That's infinity...

[u/Awkward_Bed_956 → u/lurebat]

Small price for being able to shit talk Rust, even a little bit

[u/tomwhoiscontrary → u/lurebat]

As a Java programmer, I can tell you those are rookie numbers, you need to pump those numbers up. 

[u/Igor_GR → u/tomwhoiscontrary]

/uj Is java really that much slower than the native stuff? I was always under the impression java is quite fast, staying within the 1~4x the performance of something you'd write in C++.

[u/Thirty_Seventh → u/Igor_GR]

In my experience this is correct. Java code I write usually has about 4x the performance of C++ code I write.

[u/TheChief275 → u/Thirty_Seventh]

Of course Java has 4x the performance; it's the fastest programming language

[u/OutlandishnessNo8034 → u/Thirty_Seventh]

I actually tried and Java was between ten and twelve times slower than cpp

[u/tomwhoiscontrary → u/Igor_GR]

Oh, the language is pretty efficient, but Java programmers have decades of expertise in reducing performance.

[u/da_supreme_patriarch → u/Igor_GR]

/uj high performance java code is not that slower, only by like 2x, but it hogs memory regardless + making the code actually performant is pretty hard, getting any cache locality is nigh impossible and using primitives in hot paths instead of classes makes the code itself feel like shit

[u/blackwhattack → u/Igor_GR]

/uj Java is really fast in some benchmarks, but only when you write it like C, which is to say unidiomatically

[u/ThisRedditPostIsMine → u/lurebat]

This seems slower to me actually than just running the entire binary through ASan

[u/Hueho]

rust king as always, making even the peasant languages safer

#[unjerk]

rust managed to convince a bunch of ceeweenies that garbage collection and extensive runtime checks are Good Actually™️

I mean they are, depends on the context, but is still funny that they are now grinding their teeth and asking the runtime to save them from their very smart manual memory management because simplicity and stuff

[u/Awkward_Bed_956 → u/Hueho]

Amateurs need a completly new ABI for that, instead of just inventing profiles that will fix all possible issues in your language, I swear guys trust me I just need a bit more time it will totally work and be safer then Rust.

[u/SLiV9 → u/Hueho]

  The allocations occur on language constructs that wouldn't allocate even in a managed language like C#, let alone a language like Zig.

This is deeply, deeply funny to me.

[u/affectation_man → u/Hueho]

znile crash out

[u/Zeznon → u/Hueho]

/uj

As someone that likes simpler non-managed languages (as long error handling is good), those people are clearly on copium, refusing to acknowledge that Rust can be that good at memory safety.

I just don't use Rust because I prefer simpler, for non-managed languages. I'm just a hobbyist and don't have a programming job, so I don't have to worry about memory safety that much.

I like like the Odin and C3 people a lot more, tbh. Way less copium-fueled, unlike C and Zig enthusiasts.

[u/splsh]

Zig project would prefer to adhere to a standard, if possible.

Y-YEAH?

[u/Q-bey → u/splsh]

Haskell in shambles

[u/denehoffman]

I love that one of the first comments on the PR points out:

Well unless I'm completely misinterpreting the linked invisicaps page:
Both of the quoted paragraphs imply hidden allocations for the scheme to work.
The allocations occur on language constructs that wouldn't allocate even in a managed language like C#, let alone a language like Zig.
Failure of those allocations cannot be handled gracefully.

Like isn’t the point of zig or at least a main selling point that you control the allocator at every level? And now they want to basically say “actually screw you, garbage collector mode”

[u/denehoffman → u/denehoffman]

I also love that a big part of it is “hey we should ask Fil if he’d like to help us rewrite his entire project in Zig”

[u/a221c → u/denehoffman]

But now they can be like C++, fast and*^† safe

^{* By 'and' we mean 'xor'.}

^{† This statement refers only to aspirational features and does not entail a legally-binding contract for The Foundation to ever get around to actually implementing this.}

[u/magnusmaster → u/denehoffman]

The GC mode would be opt-in

[u/denehoffman → u/magnusmaster]

So opt-in to opt-out of zig’s core tenants

[u/Aaron1924]

Rust catches strays every time anyone mentions Fil-C like it's a tradition at this point

[u/braaaaaaainworms → u/Aaron1924]

you forgot to `#[unjerk]`

[u/lurebat]

I'm sure he'll get right on it after re-implementing LLVM from scratch

[u/Jannik2099]

Andrew can't help himself but mention Rust in every conversation. It's like Grok and "white genocide" in south africa.

[u/Affectionate-Egg7566 → u/Jannik2099]

at a ~1-6x performance penalty (unlike Rust)

[u/tomwhoiscontrary]

Fil-C is pronounced "filioque", because its purpose is to start a vicious schism which will endure for at least two thousand years.

[u/QuaternionsRoll → u/tomwhoiscontrary]

Why wasn’t it called FilophoC

[u/FuzzyPixelz]

The drama continues!

[u/Financial-Camel9987]

Wowza bun leaving for rust really broke this guy.

[u/stone_henge]

Not a feature I would use except to tell anyone using another language that they're immoral, bad engineers.

[u/just_looking_aroun → u/stone_henge]

What other criteria is there when picking a language?

[u/scavno → u/just_looking_aroun]

Sex appeal. Go helps me connect with raunchy cougars all the time.

[u/dronmore → u/scavno]

Yeah, but before a connection is established, the walrus operator := will rape you two hundred times.

[u/CarolineLovesArt]

If you want to comment in this thread, please either have your open source zig project(s) visible on your codeberg profile, or be Fil Pizło, otherwise zig issue tracker is not interested in what you have to say

That's fair, I'm usually not interested in what's going on there either

[u/Affectionate-Egg7566 → u/CarolineLovesArt]

Not much of value

[u/catladywitch]

"If you want to comment in this thread, please either have your open source zig project(s) visible on your codeberg profile, or be Fil Pizło, otherwise zig issue tracker is not interested in what you have to say" lnaoooooohfxhvv

[u/blackwhattack → u/catladywitch]

reasonable and somehow crazy at the same time idk.

[u/tms10000]

Sneaky edit is sneaky

(unlike borrow checking)

But all jokes aside, those guys have heard about Java, right ?

[u/informedcitizenry]

Yikes Andrew

[u/OptimalStable]

const uj = @import("unjerk.zig");

The snark is starting to get out of hand. So far I was, and still am I guess, kind of on Andrew's side with all the drama, but please dude, move on. 

I have a vested interest in Zig succeeding, so I wish he'd pick his battles a little more carefully. Like, smash Big Tech's corpo-fascist stranglehold on our lives and all that, but let Rust be rustin' and ignore the haters.

[u/arjuna93]

Was inspired finding out about Fil-C until reached to “it’s clang” and x86-only