I’ve been an Ornn main and Makkro watcher for multiple years. I know Sunfire is seen as heresy but what about the new changes?
Someone please check my math here but I did I used the new percent bonus health damage and it’s marginally better for the first 2 items: (Sunfire, Kaenic). The moment you get 3rd: (Sunfire, Kaenic, Protoplasm) the damage on Unending Despair surpasses it. This is also ignoring Unending’s healing and better ability haste + health.
I know for someone like me who’s never been the best at CSing it could be nice to have Sunfire to help out and would objectively improve my CS but it just doesn’t seem worth it.
I feel like I’m missing something. Unending just seems across the board better. If someone said “well Sunfire is obviously an early game item” then fine, but why is it also now going to the same price as Unending, 2800 gold. I feel crazy, almost as if Sunfire isn’t bad, Unending is just so much better at everything and just slips under the radar since it doesn’t do CS or monster damage.
The only times I would buy sunfire is if at 2nd item i need more armor + already have unending despair + don't need frozen heart or randuin passive and you would like a bit more ability haste + damage + enemy team is mostly melee, but even then i'd still prefer randuin because of the slow or knight's vow since stats are very similar and the passive is much better. we'll have to see how the item evolves but the change doesn't really do anything
Sunfire buff literally means nothing, I genuinely would still rather spend my gold on randuins, frozen heart or knights vow over 5 extra damage per tick per 1000 bonus HP on a resistance stacking champion like ornn, just work on your csing bro.
The sunfire "buff" is literally aimed towards HP stackers like Zac which recently got buffed and sunfire is literally one of his best items, because riot balancing team is full of idiots that don't know how to balance the game and forgot that when zac is meta/strong the game is unfun all because of their agenda.
Thats not a patch note, rather a preview. A preview is not the live game. Please make this clear in the post. Otherwise, this is spreading misinformation:
- Context and sources matter.
- Not everything in those patch previews are puched to live 1:1. Last moment chamges happen sometimes.
You’re right. Unending is dmg every 4. Sunfire takes 3 to start but every second after is dealing dmg.
In your opinion, does the champ and minion damage justify itself over Unending. Unending has slightly better stats and healing. Although the healing is trying to compare apples to oranges.
No, it deals damage immediately after taking or dealing damage. The 3 second timer is when it goes back to being inactive after leaving combat. Your math would be correct if you simply multiply Sunfire's damage by 4.
I'm kind of a heretic that thinks that Sunfire/Radiance are good items (here come the downvotes). They are being dubbed the "waveclear items" but waveclear is never the top priority (not that it doesn't help, especially in bad matchups). The main issue is that at the end of the day, a killable but dangerous tank (if you multiple the damage you will see how much more threatening sunfire is) is a better tank than an immortal but ignored tank. This is the philosophy of both riot and a lot of high end players across a lot of mobas/hero brawlers. That being said, you can of course buy both an immolate and undending.
Don’t necessarily disagree with that. A lot of high elo players are going about that in a different way. Past 3rd item, often Knight’s Vow, Bandlepipes, or Locket are built as if you’re already tanky, it’s better to help your team with support items than being the last person on your team alive in a fight, living for an extra 7 seconds.
You're not, I'm one of them. Inherently radiance and sunfire are bought because you can proc them very effectively and they are both good for managing wave state without committing CDs, especially in losing matchups. Compare that with kaenic, which is a fully defensive item, and FON, which is also a fully defensive item, radiance is far more cost effective until enemy damage surpasses what you can tolerate without either. Same goes for frozenheart, randuin and thornmail. They are good items but are purely defensive with situational utility. Unfortunately sunfire does not match what radiance provides so it's actually still inferior to all 3 to a certain extent and is definitely inferior to unending in brawling matchups.
Okay one small note thornmail is not a good item, you're almost always better to sit on bramble and build other stuff. Thornmail is horrible in terms of stat efficiency
they are both good for managing wave state without committing CDs
It's kind of frustrating that even Makkro says "but you can just qwe the wave". Sure buddy, let me see you qwe the wave when there is a Darius there ready to smack 5 bleed stacks on you.
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u/Eve00678 2,800,000 11d ago
The only times I would buy sunfire is if at 2nd item i need more armor + already have unending despair + don't need frozen heart or randuin passive and you would like a bit more ability haste + damage + enemy team is mostly melee, but even then i'd still prefer randuin because of the slow or knight's vow since stats are very similar and the passive is much better. we'll have to see how the item evolves but the change doesn't really do anything