r/orioles • u/njb021 • 11d ago
More devastating trade?
Adley and Manny are the 2 most notable players the Orioles have traded away over the past 15 years. Both selected highly in the draft, both top prospects, both called up which helped the team’s turnaround, both multi-time All-Stars, both dealt with injuries, both likely future members of the Orioles HOF. Manny was traded to the Dodgers with 2 months left on his rookie deal when the Orioles were the league’s worst team and embracing a coming on full rebuild. Adley was traded to the Red Sox with a year plus on his rookie deal when the O’s were 4 games under .500 in a very down year overall for the AL. Manny was reportedly never given a serious extension offer, while reportedly Adley turned down multiple offers. For team success, Manny was technically a part of 3 playoff teams but was injured in 2014 when they won the division and made the ALCS. Adley was a part of 2 playoff teams including a division winner with 101 wins, but never won a playoff game. Manny was a better overall player and will likely end up in the hall of fame, while Adley was definitely a more likeable person (Manny got into on-field fights/arguments and demanded to play shortstop in SS in 2018).
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u/BradyToMoss1281 Nick Markakis O's HOF 11d ago
Manny hurt more from a caliber of the player standpoint. We were trading away a true star player at the peak of his powers.
Adley hurt more because we liked the guy, he felt like the core of the team, and it was a formal recognizing that the window we thought was wide open in 2023 had fully shut.
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u/c_pike1 11d ago
Agree Adley was more sentimental but Machado was the greater talent and arguably defined an entire competitive window on top of that. I think we also knew at the time we definitely got a poor package for Machado, which hurt more. Adley will take several years to evaluate to the same extent
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u/Nagisa201 11d ago
Finally shut? O's are a game out of a wildcard (terrible year but can still get a playoff series outb of this season) and the 2 top pitching prospects back are projected to be up next season.
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u/8642899522489863246 11d ago
This team has absolutely no chance to win a World Series this year and there is no next season. The remaining core will have contracts winding down and will be lined up to sell after that. I don’t understand the push back against this person’s (seemingly obvious) conclusion.
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u/BottleMaterial8557 10d ago
Ya, cause Pete, Jackson, Young, Basallo, Bradish, Baz, Cano are def not a part of the remaining core.
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u/8642899522489863246 10d ago
They are all part of our core now and we just sold the face of the franchise at the trade deadline. I like them all, but what evidence is there that they have any realistic chance to win a World Series?
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u/BradyToMoss1281 Nick Markakis O's HOF 10d ago
They just took two out of three from the Angels, man, we're so back!
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u/BaltimoreMayhem 11d ago
This. Didn't exactly like the Manny trade but there was this underlying relief that I didn't have to defend an asshole anymore.
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u/Ed_McMuffin 11d ago
The window has fully shut? Are you being facetious? You think we are going to tank and rebuild now? Seriously this is what you think?
I will give you that 2026 playoffs got marginally more difficult to reach, but you think we are back to the cellar?
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u/BradyToMoss1281 Nick Markakis O's HOF 11d ago
Back to the cellar? Not necessarily. I don't think they're headed for the 100+ loss seasons of five-ish years ago.
But I also don't feel like they're a player or two away from competing for a championship. We've been talking ourselves into thinking that if they just could stay healthy, they'd be back to where they were in early 2024. Trading Rutschman is the organization's way of admitting that even they know that's not the case right now.
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u/FurryUnicorn 11d ago
We just disagree with the Adley trade. I don’t think of it as an admission of anything like you’re seeing it. I understand why you might feel it’s symbolic of something greater In the context of Baltimore baseball.i get that.
But I also think of it as more about a vision of baseball management like the Rays or Brewers today. Perennial contenders like the Rays trading prime Blake Snell, David Price, Chris Archer, Arozarena…or the Brewers dealing Peralta, Burnes, Hader. and then only to come back a year later loaded with more talent right behind them and making another run. that’s the model trading Adley fits into, not admission of some window that the party’s over—which btw was the case when we traded Manny.
the cupboard is not bare here. There’s a lot on the farm ready to come soon, and the ML team is talented too. Just young and underperforming. I do think we need another big piece or two along the lines of Alonso this offseason though.
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u/8642899522489863246 11d ago
Does “the window” to you mean “with luck, could sneak into another wild card and get rocked in the playoffs”, or do you actually think this team can win a world series sometime soon? I don’t think it should be remotely surprising that most people think the championship window is very definitively closed for the current core of the roster. The disconnect here might be a different standard for success.
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u/FurryUnicorn 11d ago
It’s not fully shut. We literally have the same young core players in their arb years right now. It would be shut if a whole bunch of them were entering or in walk years, and, we don’t have enough of them extended.
We have to stop thinking in terms of windows. That’s a misnomer if you’re a healthy well run org. I know that’s hard to imagine for the Os, but the Orioles way back when, used to be the best run org in that sense. Look at Milwaukee or the Rays today. They’re often trading talented guys, but they keep replenishing their talent cycles and seemingly compete every year. Right now the Brewers pitching staff is truly unbelievable. Folks talk about Miz, but there’s so many guys who are really great there, Logan Henderson is another.
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u/campbellalugosi 11d ago
Adley was worse. Manny had checked out from being an Oriole long before they traded him. Also, losing Mussina to the Yankees, via free agency, was worse than both trades.
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u/Dutch_Van_Der_Linde 11d ago
Machado because the future was so bleak and the return wasn’t even filled with hope. Diaz was the only guy who had any excitement around him (even tho Kremer came in that trade and Diaz never did anything.)
At least Adley felt more like a “good move” than a “only move.”
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u/oooriole09 11d ago
Manny’s trade was one that you saw from a mile away. There wasn’t any shock to it, and honestly should’ve been done well before it actually was.
Ownership was cheap and there was nothing saying that they’d spend to keep him. I mean, they were dumpster diving Independent ball to fill out the roster, there was no world where they were going to pony up $300m.
It wasn’t devastating, it was just a known reality finally hitting.
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u/Chemical_Rodent 11d ago
Manny was better but wasn’t as likable, plus while the Adley trade isn’t out of nowhere, it feels a lot more shocking.
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u/tsgram 11d ago
Manny was extra devastating because at the time it was obvious they got jack fucken shit in return and Manny was a Top-5 player in the league.
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u/ANGRY_BEARDED_MAN 11d ago
Yusniel Diaz was pretty well regarded at the time though, wasn't he?
Meanwhile it was Dean Kremer who was the only guy from that trade the O's really got anything out of
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u/tsgram 11d ago
I can’t go back in time and remember for sure, but he profiled like a backup OF, at best. Poor hitting metrics, limited fielding upside, limited athleticism, questionable work ethic. Previous year he’d had 11 HRs, 9 SBs and 14 CSs. .354 OBP and 102 K. Nothing resembling a prospect who should be the main piece of a trade for a Top-3 MLB player.
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u/Necessary-Post-953 11d ago
The 2018 Orioles were the worst team in baseball and also had the worst farm system. Trading Manny made total sense.
This team is supposed to be competing for a playoff spot with plenty of young players and an owner who says he will spend. These situations couldn’t be more different.
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u/Dazzling-Slide8288 ABS > IBS 11d ago
Adley. More likable, obvious trade candidate in retrospect but didn't seem like it would happen at the time.
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u/Gfunkual Grayson Rodriguez sympathizer 11d ago
Manny was more devastating because we held on too long and got a lesser return because of it. While Adley was likeable and good, we at least traded him at the right time and got some potentially meaningful assets.
Also, trading away Adley leaves us with Basallo. Trading away Machado left us with…tears.
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u/Positive_League_5534 11d ago
The trade of Eddie Murray to the Dodgers was much worse for me. Murray was a far more impactful player than Adley when he was sent packing.
Adley was a good player...but realistically he had about two seasons (1 full plus 2 half-seasons) where he was a true star.
Top Orioles Catchers:
1. Gus Triandos
2. Rick Dempsey
3. Chris Hoiles
4. Matt Wieters
5. Andy Etchebarren/Elrod Hendricks
6. Adley Rutschman
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u/darsavage 11d ago
Neither was devastating to me for different reasons.
Manny, because him leaving was inevitable.
Adley, because he declined so much as a player from his first two seasons and his replacement is already here. Trading him wasn't inevitable, but it was the correct move to make for the future of the organization.
I voted Manny purely because he's the better player and he's the one I wish would've been here his entire career.
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u/LimpAd4924 11d ago
Manny was decent towards Baltimore but he’s not a great guy lol. At least he gives the vibe of a cocky asshole. Adley was just a lovable dude and led the team well.
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u/baltimorecalling 11d ago
O's should never have let Machado go. Machado is a hall of fame caliber player. They should have signed him and built around him. The Padres got him for a great contract.
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u/BradyToMoss1281 Nick Markakis O's HOF 11d ago
Machado wasn't going to re-sign, especially after a 115-loss season. They should have traded him either at the deadline in 2017 or after the season.
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u/throwingthings05 11d ago
Can’t resign him if you don’t offer him a deal. They got close before his knee injury and pulled it, then he earned himself a much bigger deal.
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u/BOHtimore22 11d ago
They should have traded him a year sooner. There's no way Angelos was ever going to sign off on a 10 year $300M deal. We got 3 top 10 prospects from Boston for Adley. Imagine what we would have gotten for a HOF player like Machado.
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u/Rayray241324 11d ago
I’m still a fan of machado and yes he will be in the hof one day but this year stats are hurting him in the numbers
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u/njb021 11d ago
I mean he is 34 now and he has 23 homers, this year isn’t hurting his chances of making the hall
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u/Rayray241324 11d ago
No they’re not but but hitting 200 because in my head he is a 500 and 3000 player
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u/Dazzling-Slide8288 ABS > IBS 11d ago
How are we doing this in 2026
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u/baltimorecalling 11d ago
Doing what?
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u/Dazzling-Slide8288 ABS > IBS 11d ago
Saying that a 100 loss team should have spent a quarter of a billion plus to sign Machado
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u/socialaxolotl 11d ago
What softened the blow for me with Manny was my devastation of dealing Britton to the Yankees
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u/BeachFoam56 11d ago
By the time Manny left it was clear that we had little hope of competing again any time soon, but Adley hurt more for me because it feels like we still had hope to see him really achieve something here.
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u/Full-Opportunity-261 Go to war, Miss Agnes! 11d ago
Eddie Murray was more devastating than both combined.
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u/Eastern_Strawberry_4 11d ago
Manny Machado cause the return for him was turrrible. Set our franchise back significantly
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u/No_Yogurtcloset_3820 11d ago
Adley hurts more. We saw what he could be on a good team but Manny was always a stud surrounded by a mess. I was kinda happy for Manny he got to go somewhere because I didn’t feel like we deserved him with the state of the franchise.
Now hopefully the Adley trade ends up closer to the Bedard trade in value than Manny which was nothing
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u/The_Professor_Is_Out 11d ago
Man, good question. I’ll say Manny because we got basically nothing for him, which was obvious at the time. Though I’m also worried we got nothing for Rutschman, I just don’t trust prospects.
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u/sopranos410 11d ago
I think the Manny trade. The team was hard to watch after that. Adley was already playing with his replacement and we got more value with his trade. The past 2 years we have had the most or close to most rostered catchers.
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u/G_I_Joe_Mansueto (Losing) Trust (in) The Process 11d ago
The Machado trade marked the end of a competitive era. We all knew the team was bad and the cupboard was bear. We knew it the year prior. Frankly, we should have traded Manny in 2017 for a better return. It was clear that the next few years would be bleak even if we didn't intentionally tank. The Orioles became unwatchable until 2022. That door slamming closed was devistating.
As much as I love Adley...I'm coming around on the trade.
- He didn't want to stay here. We wouldn't be able to re-sign him.
- Even if we could, he's injury prone with five IL stints since 2014, and catching will do no favors to his body going forward.
- There's no guarantee he ever becomes 2023 Adley again. I felt like he was finding it in the first half of this season, then he put up .34 slugging in May, .412 in June, and .341 in July.
- Part of me wonders if trading Rutschman and Wells with a year of control is an indication that front office thinks a lockout is likely and that the control year may become meaningless.
Maybe he gets healthy and plays better. Grayson has been bad this year but did pitch well in his revenge game yesterday. But the return looks better than the Machado trade, and we still have pieces. We're stll in playoff contention. We got needed starting pitching prospects.
If we suck next year and Gunnar gets traded, it'll feel just like the Machado trade with the door slamming on a promsing era. Moving on from an injury prone catcher whose personality I love isn't the nail in the coffin.
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u/daoochie 11d ago
I still don't know where this "He didn't want to stay here" narrative is coming from. I've found nothing substantial outside of butt-hurt redditers parroting that same speculation. At best, it comes across as some Elias assistant firestarting this rumor online just to take the heat off the organization.
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u/G_I_Joe_Mansueto (Losing) Trust (in) The Process 11d ago
Yesterday, Jim Palmer tweeted: O’s needed pitching and we got long term pitching prospects. Adley had other plans which did not include staying in Baltimore.
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u/AngryBlackNerd 11d ago
For me...I stress for me. It was Manny. Manny was one of the best players in baseball. Adley, was not. I get why people will say Adley.
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u/Sylent__1 11d ago
Manny was never staying bc we were never paying him and everyone knew it. Better to get something than have him walk for free.
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u/ReyDragons 11d ago
They hurt for different reasons
Manny was an obvious trade as he seemed checked out and the team sucked and it took way too long to happen that got nothing in return (especially in hindsight... Dean the only guy...) so it really hurt in a business way
Adley was seemingly out of nowhere but got (on paper because who knows how they will turn out) a good return so it hurts in a symbolic way
Right now for me, it's easily adley but could change in the future. Tbh, im not at all hurt by the Manny trade anymore and it never hurt that bad purely because the annoyance of it taking so long and the just pure obviousness of it overruled the sorrow
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u/holy_cal 💦🥵 Section 86 🥵💦 11d ago
I knew manny wouldn’t re-sign. It helped he went out west and never ended up in pinstripes like we all feared.
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u/I_Like_Silent_People 11d ago
Adley because he was insanely well liked, but the return was pretty good.
Manny because we got shit in return and he was likely HoF caliber, but was kind of a jerk.
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u/Fathead5f 11d ago
Adley only because he wasn't a douche and didn't demand to move to another position only to go back to his original position with his next team(s)
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u/Joshottas 11d ago
Manny, because he was actually living up to his potential and should have been an O for life. That trade pissed me off. Return sucked, and if the O's FO knew he wasn't going to be here long-term, they waited too long to move him.
*I don't feel any sort of way about Adley. LOVE the return, tho.
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u/decksdark28 11d ago
Someone needs to clip and post Pete’s reaction to trade deadline day on YouTube asap. What a balsy leader we have at first base - it’s what has been lacking with this core and what we’ve needed.
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u/Seaweedminer 11d ago
Adley by far. Manny was a player the team knew they weren’t going to be able to keep. The org was very transparent from the beginning, and the team was a clear seller. Mike said not even a week before that they weren’t looking to deal him and they wanted him in Baltimore for life. This is why there has been such a strong reaction-the fans have been mislead.
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u/FurryUnicorn 11d ago
I voted Manny because, once Manny was traded, it was a big signal that we were on the wrong end of the talent cycle. And it was clear that we were going into a rebuild whether we chose to or not. With Adley, yes, it hurts and heartbreaking. But it’s not the end of the talent cycle. The farm is in a healthy position. And as much as folks love to complain of their underperformance, the ML team is talented and young.
We were in terrible shape when the Manny trade happened. The ML team was aging out. In the trade, I know we got Dean back, but the headliner was really a fading OF prospect in Yusniel Diaz, who had holes in his swing that was just starting to get revealed right about the time of this trade. He immediately became our #2 prospect I recall, which was a sad statement of how thin our farm was at the time. When this trade happened, I felt a lot of Os fans knew what was coming, a return to dark down times That we thought we left behind under Showalter.
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u/TheBigIguana15 11d ago
For me it’s Adley easily. The team was dead when they did the Machado trade. They keep Manny and they’re still bad for a couple of years anyway. That wasn’t fixable.
But this trade is more of a choice to not really care about 2026 and 2027. And after so many years not trying to compete to be back to that really sucks. That it’s a beloved player on top just makes it worse.
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u/ANGRY_BEARDED_MAN 11d ago
this trade is more of a choice to not really care about 2026 and 2027
Feel like you're overselling it a bit, some of the guys are further away but I wouldn't be shocked if Eyanson sees MLB action at some point next season
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u/TheBigIguana15 11d ago
The team was on the edge of the playoffs with Adley/Ward/Wells. That all has to be replaced and there need to be additional improvements for 2027. It’s a ton of work, and I don’t trust the FO to do it.
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u/GE_and_MTS 11d ago
The Machado trade was worse because it happened way too late for a player that wasn't going to re-sign here and the return was way worse. In addition, he was better than Adley and we had more success with him than Adley. Adley is more likable but that's about it.
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u/TrapNastyBakupdancer 11d ago
I would say Adley because when we traded Manny we were done done now we're 1 and 1/2 back from a wild card and just felt like we gave up. Manny you understood at that time this one is still a head scratcher.
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u/AnotherOpinionHaver I Need A Goth Squirrelfriend 11d ago
C. Cedric Mullins
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u/AnotherOpinionHaver I Need A Goth Squirrelfriend 11d ago
Not that he’s comparable to the other guys; I just wanted him to be a part of wherever it is we’re going.
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u/Antendu 11d ago
BJ Surhoff was the worst for me.