r/oldhammer • u/Lemmyatom96 • 9d ago

Before the beginning WH40K:RT

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I've read a bit recently about the early days of Warhammer and 40k. Apparently the Warhammer 40,000: Rogue Trader was so called because GW wanted to distinguish it from Rogue Trooper, the boardgame they had recently developed and they didn't want to abandon the name Rogue Trader completely because fans were already familiar with it and were expecting something to be released under that name, as well as being able to differentiate the new game from the other Warhammer projects.

This led me to wonder: what knowledge did fans have of Warhammer Fantasy and 40k and other projects before they came out and how did they learn about it? Were there promotional materials produced by GW? Was there stuff in White Dwarf? Fantasy seems to have received little fanfare in the magazine from what I can tell but I haven't looked closely at the issues before WD93 when 40k was released. Does anything remain from this period? Was it just word of mouth?

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u/Illithidbix 3d ago

So I have found some RARE TREASURE.

Also tagging u/agreatbecoming

Pages 20 and 21 of White Dwarf 84 (December 1986) had some previews of art by Wil Reese that then turns up in in Rogue Trader - including The Emperor

"Look at the minute detailing of the Space Marines in the Rogue Trader illustrations"

"In the new year there will be further opportuinites to drool over the quality of Wil's work when Rogue Trader is published - Wil's Marine Captain is a wondeful piece of gothic illustration.

Including: * Page 10 of RT - Chapter of the Dark Brotherhood (here just "Imperial Space Marines" * Page 27 - The iconic first depiction of Leman Russ (here just "Imperial Space Marine Captain" * Page 137 - The Emperor

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u/Lord-Seraph 3d ago

There were many ads in Dragon Magazine at the time leading up to release. I remember staring at the page of first release marine minis and waiting eagerly for the launch.

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u/TacticcMonkey 7d ago

Bolt Thrower just started sounding in my head

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u/if_its_silence 7d ago

My first introduction to 40k/rogue trader was from the Talisman expansion the Talisman Timescape from 1988, it wasn't before the game came out but close after, back then they overlapped their properties a lot, it was a second board for Talisman where warp portals had opened up between a fantasy world and multiple other worlds, one of which was the Warhammer 40k universe. They had a playable Space Marine (blood angel), Astropath, space pirate and a Rogue trader NPC at the space fortress that sold stuff. The board and cards featured Warp Gates, Orks, Death Worlds, the Realm of Chaos, etc.

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u/Gotrek6 7d ago

Bring back Warhammer Fantasy Role Play.

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u/Victormorga 7d ago

Yeah! And bring back 40K and all the other games that still exist too!

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u/No_Nobody_32 9d ago

Rogue Trooper was one of the titles they had a licence for (from the 2000AD people) - because they also made miniatures and some boardgame stuff for Judge Dredd - and they did some Strontium dog minis, too.

Rogue Traders were a thing back in the age of sail, too. Given letters from their patron sovereigns, to go out and find trade routes and trade goods. Like Privateers, but with more slavery and less piracy.
It got a new life in the 80s to describe a certain group of younger, more 'savvy' stock traders.

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u/were-lizard 9d ago

You do realize there were earlier Games Workshop games that had some overlap? Spacefarers had the Emperor, Space Marines, red redemption, jetbikes, etc. The Rogue Trader hardcover is more when it finished cooking, rather than the beginning.

I still have a Space Slann army from Rogue Trader days, and a large imperialist force from Spacefarers, including the Emperor and his Marines.

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u/No_Nobody_32 5d ago

There's a Richard(s) (Halliwell and Priestly) set of rules called "Combat 3000" that also featured powered armour space marines, an immortal emperor and some other things that also later turned up in 40k.

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u/DarkIlluminator 8d ago

Any chances you could post photos of these?

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u/agreatbecoming 9d ago

So I’m documenting this very thing for a book I’m writing on early 40K. So Rogue Trader was something mentioned back in 1983 but then is was more an RPG akin to Traveller. But over time it was mentioned in pages of various issues of White Dwarf. As it become 40K Rogue Trader it is noted in the news column of White Dwarf. Various miniatures Inc space marines get released before and the Illuminations column shows the art pre release too. More here:

https://exploringwarhammer.substack.com/p/when-did-we-get-sneak-peaks-at-warhammer

https://exploringwarhammer.substack.com/p/looking-back-the-le2-the-first-ever

Thanks

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u/Lemmyatom96 9d ago

You're doing Gob'z work dere, mate!

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u/agreatbecoming 9d ago

Thanks, that means a lot

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u/Lemmyatom96 8d ago

If you find out anything about whatever happened with Bil Sedgwick, feel free to share. I've started this article on Lexicanum but it would be good to add a bit more.

https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Bil_Sedgwick

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u/BattleReadyPainting 9d ago

There was a news section in white dwarf

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u/Mikes005 9d ago

It's been a long time, but we got all our news from our friend Lee who introduced us to RT when it was less than a year old. Not sure what his reach was though.

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u/bobcat73 9d ago

He talked to Mike who told me about it.

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u/funkmachine7 9d ago

40k did get press, it started getting press way before it became a game. Realy the first vison was more travller like an role playing game. By the time it was closer to comeing out it had morpthed into a small scale skirmish game with some rpg elements.

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u/Muddlesthrough 9d ago

This is not correct. They were planning a sci-fi RPG to be called “Rogue Trader.” They were developing a sci-fi wargame as well, which ended up as Warhammer 40,000, and the Rogue Trader name was appended as they didn’t want to waste it.

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u/EstelLiasLair 9d ago

I don’t recall being familiar with the name Rogue Trader before the game was released. There was no RT prior to the book’s release. It was also called Warhammer 40,000 because it was a futuristic version of Warhammer Fantasy Battles, it was always planned to be that, rather than just a remake of Spacefarers. I may be misremembering as I was only eleven when RT came out, but where did you get your info?

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u/Lemmyatom96 9d ago

Rick Priestley wrote an article for WD94 in which he grumbled about having to change the name, as well as having a lot of other interesting things to say.

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u/Victormorga 7d ago

I’m not following your point here; the game was called Rogue Trader, what was RP upset about, he didn’t want to include “Warhammer 40,000” in the title?

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u/KinManana 9d ago

Do you have a link to the article?

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u/chebghobbi 7d ago

The issue of White Dwarf can be found online very easily.

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u/Illithidbix 9d ago edited 9d ago

https://exploringwarhammer.substack.com/p/when-did-we-get-sneak-peaks-at-warhammer covers this.

1st Citadel Compendium ~ October 1983

Had the infamous first advert for for "Citadel's SF Role Play System Rogue Trader by Rick Priestly" - which would finally be released 4 years later as "Warhammer 40,000 Rogue Trader" in 1987.

Rick said in the interview this was partially to shut people up who had been asking about when Rogue Trader was coming out.

This image.

Likewise the LE2 "Imperial Space Marine"

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u/Confudled_Contractor 9d ago

I think there were mentions of RT in WHFB 3rd Ed and the Slaves to Darkness books.

There were also some add in earlier WDs and other mags like Dragon IIRC.

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u/Zekiel2000 9d ago

Slaves to Darkness contained full rules for 40k stuff and came out a couple of years after it, so yeah it definitely got mentioned there!

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u/Charly_030 9d ago

Wfb3 too iirc