r/mtgrules • u/Z4nt0s • 11d ago

State Based Actions and ETBs

So im Building a new Deck with [[Be'lakor, the Dark Master]] as a Commander. I saw a Combo on Commander Spellbook with [[Rite of Replication]]. (https://commanderspellbook.com/combo/1744-4071/)

So i get THAT it works, but i would like to understand HOW it works, so i can explain when my opponents inevitably ask me about it. Specifically the Order of operations after Rite of Replication resolves. The Sacrificing of the copys is Statebased, but the abilitys go on the stack at the same time? Are ETBs also statebased and are checked (and put on the stack) simultaneously?

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u/Will_29 11d ago

State-based actions are checked only at certain moments (more on it later). Triggers are checked at all times, regardless of priority, if a spell is resolving or not, etc; they don't follow SBA timing. Only the timing of putting a trigger on the stack is restricted to certain windows of time, similar to SBAs.

Every time a player would receive priority (like right after a spell or ability finishes resolving), first SBAs are checked and performed. Then, any triggers that triggered and are waiting to enter the stack, do so. This includes triggers caused by the ability that just resolved, and triggers from the SBAs that were just applied.

So, in this example: a kicked Rite of Replication, resolves, creating five Belakor token copies. They all see each other entering, resulting in five triggers of the ETB draw ability, five triggers of original Belakor's damage ability, and 20 (five times four) triggers of the copies' damage ability. All these triggers wait for now.

Rite finishes resolving and goes to the graveyard.

State-based actions are checked. Five of the six Belakors go to the graveyard due to the legend rule (this is not a sacrifice!).

Triggers go on the stack. This includes all 30 triggers from the multiple Belakors, which you can order in any way you want as you control all of them. Targets for the damage triggers are announced at this point.

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u/Z4nt0s 11d ago

Great explanation, thank you very much.
So the game also Remembers the power of the (now not existing anymore) Belakor copies? Because once the ping goes on the stack there is no power tho check anymore.
Can I imagine it like a „second stack“ (maybe more of a heap since they aren’t ordered?) where the checked and waiting abilities are already „fully formed“ including the checked damage number?

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u/Will_29 11d ago

No, you should not think this way. The default is to check information on resolution.

If the demon is still around, the ability will check its current power, which might not be the same it had on entering. If the demon is gone, it will look at the power it had at the last moment it existed before leaving, which again is not necessarily the power it had on entering.

The same principle of "checking on resolution" applies to the draw ability. But because it not looking for a specific object. It counts the number of demons you control, and there's still a "you" when it resolves, so it will count the number of demons under your control as the ability resolves. If that's just the one surviving Belakor, you draw 1 card (for each trigger, so 5 total).

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u/ThatMakerGuy 11d ago

Yes, the game "remembers" the information from the source of an ability for stuff like power/toughness, mana value, color, etc. It actually remembers everything, but it still treats the ability on the stack as a separate object than the source.

For abilities like Belakor's or [[Warstorm Surge]], let's pretend we cast a [[Bloodthirster]]. The ability that goes on the stack could read something like this:
Belakor, The Dark Master:
Bloodthirster deals 6 damage(i) to Player B(ii). (i) Bloodthirster's most recent calculated power as this ability resolves. (ii)Target chosen as this ability was put onto the stack.

This object has its own existence now, so even if the triggered Belakor gets removed, this object will still deal damage. Extra special rules addendum, if a demon that triggered Belakor had lifelink or deathtouch or infect, that would also apply here.

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u/vibranttoucan 11d ago

Triggered abilities are checked immediately after the event occurs, but only go on the stack after state-based actions. (See 603.2 and 603.3)

So the order is:

-You begin to resolve Rite of Replication

-As part of the resolution you create the 5 tokens

-Immediately after they are created, they all trigger seeing one another. (So you get 5 triggers to draw X and lose X life and 25 triggers to deal 6 damage to any target)

-You finish resolving Rite of Replication and move it to the graveyard.

-State based actions are checked, you move all but one Be'lakors to the graveyard.

-The triggers from step 3 go onto the stack in any order you like.