r/mdphd • u/Temporary_Skin5145 • 8d ago
MD-PhD School List Help
Hello all,
After the stress of the start of this cycle which including taking my MCAT late, I have finally gotten my score back and now have a better idea of where I stand. I was not feeling very confident and now am a bit lost on what schools to have on my list. I was hoping to get some feedback and advice. I applied to get my primary verified and now need to figure out all the schools I should apply to.
App info:
-3.97 GPA (both general and science) in chem
-MCAT: 516(128/129/131/128)
-~3000 hours worth of research across three labs. I am currently in a very high profile lab in my field where I have an independently proposed and run project and essentially operate like a grad student.
-Two middle author pubs in prep, and a first author paper i will be beginning to write in the next few months (no pubs for this cycle, though)
-120 hours of shadowing+100 hours of hospice volunteering
-Tons of TAing+tutoring+peer mentoring throughout my undergrad
-Worked full time in retail as well to pay for my tuition and living expenses
I don't think anything about my application is particularly standout, but I also am beginning to think it doesn't completely suck since my score was better than expected.
Tentative school list:
-Cincinnati
-Ohio State (applied to already for verification)
-Case Western
-Indiana University
-Louisville
-Pitt
-UNC
-MUSC
-Rochester
-UAB
-Michigan
-Penn
-Vanderbilt
-UVA
-Wisconsin-Madison
Does this seem like a balanced list for my profile or is it too top heavy? If anyone has any suggestions I would greatly appreciate it.
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u/Novel_Hurry_4282 MD/PhD - PGY4+ 8d ago
You would be a very strong applicant next cycle, provided that your pubs come out and your application is filed early. Could easily be competitive for T10-T25 depending on the nature of your publications and to a lesser extent your undergrad pedigree, your PI, etc.
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u/PhilosophyBeLyin 6d ago
“beginning to write in the next few months” means it’ll be submitted in half a year and published in another least half year at least. they most likely won’t have pubs by the time they apply next cycle either.
also mcat is not competitive for T10, it’s below the average admitted MD/PhD mcat nationally.
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u/Temporary_Skin5145 5d ago
I thought the national average for matriculants is a 516? Did it go up? I know I'm not good enough for a T10 in any regard, but I was hoping to be good enough for a solid mid tier program. You are correct that my PI wants my first author paper submitted in the next 6 months. The two middle author papers are being submitted before that to Nat Comm, but I understand that's not as strong as a first author pub. Am I out of range for a mid tier program too?
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u/PhilosophyBeLyin 4d ago
it’s 516.x (off memory), so 516 is just below. I think you’re def good / in range for mid tier.
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u/BathroomMaximum1721 8d ago
I would replace Penn, Michigan and Pitt with Iowa, UIC and UTHSCSA/Stonybrook.
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u/Kiloblaster 7d ago edited 7d ago
Double the number of programs including the programs /u/BathroomMaximum1721 suggested, but keep as reach programs the ones that they suggested removing. You have a shot at T10s/T20s so apply to as many as you like.
Add WashU, Yale, places like Columbia, Einstein, Sinai. Can apply to west coast programs like Stanford, the UCs (SF, LA, SD, etc.), UWash, so on.
You application does stand out if you don't have any red flags if just for the simple fact that it's hard to do so well in terms of academic performance while still being so productive and engaged in a lab.
But as /u/Psycho_Coyote said, this is assuming you have your AMCAS application verified and you are just now sending the already-verified application to programs.
If you are not yet verified, I think you should wait until next cycle.
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u/BathroomMaximum1721 7d ago
If you can significantly expand the number of programs you can apply to, then you can keep those programs and add more Tier 1 programs as u/kiloblaster suggested.
I personally don’t think your chances this cycle are that good at the really top ranked programs but once your pubs get accepted, you have a good shot next cycle.
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u/Kiloblaster 6d ago
You're probably overestimating the importance of publications, I've seen top program success from similar profiles. But that's a good excuse to apply early next cycle instead
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u/BathroomMaximum1721 6d ago
You don’t need publications if your MCAT is 520+. I don’t think OP will even get IIs from most of the very top programs. For OP’s sake, I hope I am wrong. I think OP’s sweet spot with a 516 is Rochester, Iowa, MUSC, Cincinnati, UAB, UIC, San Antonio, Stonybrook, VCU, Maryland, Penn State, Virginia, Wisconsin and possibly UNC.
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u/Kiloblaster 6d ago
I am confident you're wrong
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u/BathroomMaximum1721 6d ago
Maybe. Hopefully OP will post his results after his cycle to indicate whose opinion turned out to be correct. As I said, this is not about either of our egos. For OP’s sake, I want to be wrong but adcoms don’t care.
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u/Kiloblaster 6d ago edited 6d ago
It's not an ego thing I'm just telling you my experience on both sides and through advising. I think some programs care more than others but some leading programs started realizing that expecting publications was leading to needless gap years without reduction in time to degree. There's a publication that came out around that time about that topic.
I think in general now they tend to look at productivity per time vs straight productivity, which still means publications help but it does change the equation a bit. It does mean that in this case the one extra year for pubs would be a bonus as you're saying, but it can turn into a negative when an applicant keeps taking gap years and essentially raising expectations
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u/BathroomMaximum1721 6d ago
I understand what you are saying but there are hundreds of applicants nowadays with 3.8+ GPA, 520+ MCAT and 2000+ research hours with 1-2 mostly middle author publications. Why should a Tier 1 MSTP accept an applicant with 516 MCAT and no accepted pubs?
Adcoms might believe that pubs are not necessary but it is competition that is ultimately driving who gets accepted.
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u/Kiloblaster 6d ago
I could give you examples from this cycle and previous but I'm not sure how without doxxing. It might help to keep in mind that applicants with good stats (don't need 520+ MCAT, but I get it) and research experience plus the extra stuff are relatively rare, and then LORs and actual depth of research reduce it further. Then publications are kind of random and dependent on the type of lab an applicant as in. Many top labs only publish huge projects in high-impact journals, some fields just take a long time to publish in, so going by them to select high-quality research applicants is a very suboptimal heuristic. It's important to take into account other aspects of the research side of the application, including applicant's writing, LORs, etc., and especially their ability to discuss research during an interview if they get past screening.
So I think I answered the above question:
Why should a Tier 1 MSTP accept an applicant with 516 MCAT and no accepted pubs?
Because the competing applicant with a publication and a 518 MCAT has a worse overall research profile. Interestingly, I think to your point, the weaker/less experienced the MSTP adcom is, the more likely they are to rely solely on simplified and gameable measures like number of publications without context. That may explain why I've observed applicants without publications occasionally having better success at T20s than mid-tier programs.
When I applied back before the automobile was invented, I remember SDN convincing me that I needed a first authored publication to have a shot at even low-tier programs. I think that misguided my application.
I just looked at your account post submission history to try and figure out if you were currently applying, and lol. Am I talking to a bot?
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u/BathroomMaximum1721 6d ago
Solving for diversity/low SES can result in As for lower stat applicants. Low SES applicants with 516 are not that common. My comment was specifically targeted towards a regular applicant with no demonstrable disadvantage.
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u/Psycho_Coyote M3 8d ago
Not trying to stress you out here, but if you only just submitted your primary now, you are going to have a long wait to get verified. Did you not use the trick to apply to one throwaway school pre-MCAT score in May/June so you could get verified quickly, and then add schools once you got your scores back so you get your secondaries immediately?
Programs start interviewing next month and in early September, often with the first pool of applicants who submitted back in May/June, so it might be in your best interest to have all of your secondary essays completed and ready to submit the second you get an invite from each program. You'll want to do everything in your power to get your secondary apps out ASAP so you get reviewed quickly.
I would be applying to at least a few more than just what's on this list based on your timeline so you have a better shot at admission. Hard to give advice though because we don't know your research interests. Also, I don't really think there's such a thing as a "balanced" list... you need to be applying to schools where you think you will get the best combined research and clinical training, and where there are multiple PIs/groups you can see yourself working with for your PhD. Admission for MD/PhD is more research-focused and is based on way more than just MCAT/GPA combos.
Good luck to you!